CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 3 (New Evolution/New Pokemon Discussion)

[Aldaron]

Uhh, so if I can say something like "Sunflora's consistent intake of Solarpower caused radiative energies to cause transformation into a fiery plant", you know, combining both the radiation of Eevee and the transformation of Shellgon to Salamence...that would be fine? Haha, you're so funny.

You're also...

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Here's a thought, when the next CaP project come around how about we make an evolution focused project. It would finally get rid of all the fanboy/fangirl-ish out of everyone and we wouldn't have to hear all the bitching and moaning caused by wanting an evolution in future discussion. I think that's fair.

 

[Aki]

@Aldaron: I've got an idea.

In regards to G_T's post earlier on in the thread, you can really see where everything's going to an extent if you have a Little bit of general knowledge.

 

[gorm]

Here's a though, how bout we make the next CaP project a fucking evo just for the sake of the evo lovers? I think that's fair don't you think?

uh whoa lol

this thread's getting stupid.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Gorm~ I know, it's 1:40 in the morning, I haven't had much sleep since I tend to submit these wonderful thread at around 10 pm to 12 am, and of top of all that I have to read these arguments.

Aki~ I agree with you there to a certain extent. Some like Dragonair to Dragonite and Clamperl line I would never forsaw it but Wingull/Pelipper...different story.

 

[Bluekikatana]

Just curious, but how long are each of these polls supposed to last?

 

[Aldaron]

uh whoa lol

this thread's getting stupid.

Really only until a certain close minded fool decided to pitch in ;D


But seriously, early morning is no excuse for poor posts...especially by the topic leader...

Anyway, I think there has been plenty of evidence to show that evolving a Pokemon does not limit incredibly. You can change its primary type, change its purpose, change its stats, change its move pool...I mean, comon lol.

 

[Bluekikatana]

I do think that Fire/Grass is primarily different than any other Pokemon we've seen before too. Thinking that something of the current gen would be able to evolve into Fire/Grass is like saying something before Ludicolo could have evolved into Grass/Water. Ludicolo just seems perfect for that, and I still think a new species better justifies the very new Fire/Grass combo.

New Species Ideas so far:
Jack o Lantern
Dimetrodon (w/chili peppers)
Mountain Lion (saw a sketch on the last thread)
Elk
Panda (I really don't think this should be fire as they're very mystical and relaxed animals in Asian folklore Fighting/Psychic or Fighting/Dark would seem more suited for it, since that also seems yin/yang like.)
Porcupine (w/chili peppers)

Sounds a lot better to me than having to work around old Pokemon. Whatever it ends up being, I definitely think the design should incorporate chili peppers as that just seems made for a "hot plant".

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

But seriously, early morning is no excuse for poor posts...especially by the topic leader...

Are you implying that my recent comment was poor because it sounded outburst-ish or are you implying that my post(s) are poor in generally?

Final vote count(?)

53 :New Species (57.6% or 58%)
39 :Evolution (42.3% or 42%)

 

[Captain]

I'll go with an evolution. I generally prefer new species to it but I guess with things with Sunflora, who lack a lot of moves that could be broken on an evo as options, how am I to object? C'mon what in it's movepool is so extremely troubling beyond Swords Dance? The others might have better movepools but given the options it's good enough to satisfy me. A new species is fine too.

 

[Dormin]

Evolution for sure if the poll is still open. I'm really pulling for that sunflora evo!!

 

[Aldaron]

I was implying that the terrible post was your most recent post, Gothic_Togekiss.

Anyway, are you including undecided votes in your count? Cause I don't see how you can have a total of 93%....

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Well I started from where I last left off in the count so I might have missed one or two. Let me do a recount.

Edit: Did a recount and also added Atyoki's and the other new comers' votes. Azican, next time edit the first post. You three bolded post confused me to no end.

 

[X-Act]

Well, people, it's okay to argue as long as you keep it civilised. If the majority of people don't agree with your point of view, we just need to bow down and accept the majority's point of view.

Personally, most things I suggested here were rejected, but I didn't flare up and attack the person/s responsible for the decision. For the record, I first suggested modifying existing Pokemon's movepools slightly, which wasn't heeded. Then here I suggested a Poison type, which didn't win, and then I suggested an evo of an existing Pokemon, which presumably will also not win. The Revenankh sprite I voted for also didn't win. But I always accepted the decisions made, even though I ultimately don't agree with most of them.

 

[Time Mage]

Yeah, I also wanted a poison type. It'll win next project, I hope.

However, I'm excited about this Fire/Grass pokémon, it has a lot of potential.


And regarding being a fanboy when deciding to evolve an existing pokémon... OF COURSE! But that's not inherently bad if, after choosing to evolve a pokémon, we make th modifications in a way that will add to the current OU metagame. I generally lean in favor of new pokémon, but in the case of Revenankh, for example, I voted for an evolution because I wanted to see an awesome ragdoll kung-fu ghost.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

X-Act nothing personal but after having all your opinions and suggestions basically shove right back into your face like that, I would be bitter as all hell. It's good you're taking all those defeats with dignity.

I'm assume that everyone that wanted to vote have voted already. It seems to me that majority of the votes want a new Pokemon this time so it's safe to assume that we can move along to the next poll. If anyone have any objections to my decision, please speak up.

Off-Topic: next CaP project, I'll be voting for poison too.

 

[Helios]

Okay, let's move on, the majority want a new pokemon, so let's get making a new pokemon.

 

[JimBob]

okay there were about a million posts that I want to respond to but I'll select one

This is strange for me, because I don't commonly say this to be people, but you are wrong. Think of all the pokemon people have posted that look nothing life their pre-evos, or the ones with split-evolutions that look vastly different. The fact that you are ignorant to this shows your close-mindedness, and the fact that a similar belief in held by many of your fellow forum-goers show that you are not alone. People need to get out of this mentality that new evolutions must be identical to their predecessors, because sooner or later we're going to need to make a new evolution, and I'd rather it be sooner so we can get the process down.

I don't think I said that an evolution needed to be the same as its predecessor, but I did say that I didn't want there to be more discussion about the sprite than about the stats/moves. And a large percentage of the people arguing about why we should get an evolution have been saying "it doesn't have to look at all like its preevolution" which really doesn't matter. I mean, looks are nice, but Blastoise and Muk are really cool looking, too, but who uses them? Metagross is kind of cool looking, and lots of people use him. My point is, stop bringing up the "looks" argument to try to counter our arguments.

My previous post still stands

Not only that, Doug has specified that this program is supposed to balance the metagame, which a new pokemon doesn't necessarily do. Look at Syclant, the self-proclaimed Garchomp counter. Not only did it fall flat on it's face, but even those of us who actually know what the CaP server is don't use it much. Perhaps a Sunflroa evo and mini-Sunny Dayer is Cherrum is exactly what standard needs.

I don't even know if this is in response to me or not, or if you just went on a tangent. But what would a Sunflora evolution be except a stronger Sunny Day+Chlorophyll user? We already have a couple of those. If you guys outvote me, I won't complain, but (I can't find a good way to end my post and I gotta go to work oh well)

 

[linton]

New evo

 

[Luck]

Luck, at least have the courtesy to read the post before you take something out of context.

If you bothered to even attempt to read my post you will note that I already stated it would work within the guidelines set for a Pokemon, but that there was no reason that you couldn't use these guidelines as a jump to improve the Pokemon.

Also, please do not misquote me. I said it does not really limit us, not that it does not limit us. Thank you very much.

Also, no one is claiming you do not have a framework. It is all about the detail of the framework. After all, even when creating new Pokemon, it is not like the framework does not exist. We are giving it BST from 450-600, it is one of the 17 types, etc. Your post is wholly irrelevant and really not helpful to discussion at all. It is obvious that everyone works within a framework.

However, working within the framework of an "incomplete" Pokemon, as I defined it, is very liberal. There are countless ways we could approach it. So please, spare me your condescending attitude.

I didn't misquote you and i was not condescending i was point out the truth they are a lot of limits when using a existent pokemon.

New species=Building house from scratch,no limits
Evolution=Renovating a house,they are thing you have to use from the old house

Sometimes in renovating old houses you have to change so many thing that it is basically new house.And in our cases if we are going to change some many things on a evo ,why try to call it old pokemon when you have made a new pokemon.Thats is my only point

 

[Urza]

in regards to evolutions of existing pokes, i think the people interested in that would be wise to check out amazing_ampharos's mod server. some of the changes they have made there are very interesting and it's a whole different metagame.

 

[Grawl]

New species

More options and I don't see a Fire type (seeing as that's its main type) that needs a Grass evo

 

[N/A]

New specie! And I can't really think of a pokemon already existing turn into fire/grass...

 

[TerrickTerran]

New Species. I just don't see an evolution working as well.

 

[latinoheat]

personally i don't see how you can get much better then sunflora for a logical fire/grass pokemon.

It gets two traits that fit a fire/grass pokemon and it can easily make use of.

The current stats spread of sunflora is 75/75/55/30/105/85

just by adding 10 to each to get 85/85/65/40/115/95. That spread set brings so many options, 85/95 allows it to switch into weaker special hits,115 special attack on a fire/grass dual stab, the speed could be added to and either way is made up for by clorophyll.

In terms of movepool the only grass based moves sunflora really misses are sleep powder and stun spore.

Just adding standard fire moves you get a good few options:

(Clorophyll) Special Sweeper

Sunny Day
Grass Knot
Fire Blast
HP Ground/HP Electric/Taunt

This thing is about as good as you could ever get from a sunny day sweeper. Blissey gets 3hko'd, using taunt the best it can do is a neutral ice beam to 85/95 special defence. HP Ground is for Heatran

(Clorophyll) Physical Sweeper@Life orb/Leftovers

Blaze Kick/Fire Punch
Sunny Day
Seed Bomb/Grass Knot
WOW/HP Ground

life orb 252 att(+attack) will 2hko both blissey and skarmory with a fire punch in sun. The grass move will stops tyranitar/hippodown changing the weather on you and obviously stops swampert.If gyarados,gliscor or whoever wants to try and wall you they get WOW, a burnt gyarados is fucked. Heatran is the best counter to this but when faced with 115 special att its still risking taking a huge dent from a random HP ground even without evs.


Choice Specs

Leaf Storm/Grass Knot
Flamethrower/Fire Blast
HP Ground/Electric/Ice
WOW

Support

Leech Seed
WOW
Synthesis


Sunflora even gets Swords dance, i did not list this because 40-60 speed is not exactly going to sweep.



IMO the typing fire/grass fits everything about sunflora so well and is about the best chance you will ever get to make a new evo.

If sunflora a thing who's whole existence is based around weather abuse and the sun, does not fit a fire/grass evolution then you may as well remove the option for a new evo from every CAP project from this point on.