New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread "Mark 2"

[Colonel M]

I don't see how Bounce is horrible. Let's remember that Gyarados's biggest counter is Celebi and Bounce is still STAB regardless. Other Options material probably but I think the paralysis rate also is welcome with it. Substitute helps it out slightly but could be scrapped.

I just don't see it as "useless."

 

[Legacy Raider]

Here is a Heatran set I've been using to great success.

--------------------

--------------------
Sub-Salac Sweeper
@ Salac Berry
Timid - Flash Fire
4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe

<ivs - 31,22,30,31,31,31>

- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Ice
- Substitute
--------------------

This Heatran works wonders in this fast paced metagame. Heatran is the most common pokemon, and without a doubt the most commonly used set is the Timid Choice Scarf sweeper. Because of this, when a Heatran switches in, almost all players automatically assume it is Choice Scarfed. Use this set as offensively as you would a ScarfTran and you are guaranteed to have your opponent believe it is. For example, switching Heatran in to revenge kill Shaymin, Weavile, Infernape, etc is exactly how this set is meant to be played. In the mid-game this Heatran uses a single attack at a time to scout out counters, before switching out, acting just as a ScarfTran would. Your item won't give your deception away like Life Orb would.

Despite its effectiveness at mid game clearance, it is the end game when its bulky water counters have been elminated that this Heatran really shines. Use Heatran's brilliant typing to switch in on a resisted move. Imagine the look of horror on your opponent's face when they switch out to their Salamence from their Heatran, and instead of the expected Earth Power they are facing a Substitute. Heatran can then Substitute down to 25% health to activate Salac Berry, keep the substitute, outspeed Mence and OHKO with HP Ice. Then subsequently you use the luxury of being able to switch your moves to Earth Power their Heatran into oblivion, before sweeping the rest of their beliguered team with Fire Blast.

There are two factors that contribute to making this set so effective. One is the natural inclination of players to assume you are using ScarfTran, and if played correctly this set will seem exactly like it until the end game. Secondly, the thing that undos most SubSalac sets is that they get prioritied into the ground - at 25% health almost all pokemon fall to even a weak priority attack. Heatran's excellent typing, however, affords it a resistance to nearly every priority attack seen in the OU metagame. Quick Attack, Bullet Punch, Extremespeed, Shadow Sneak, Ice Shard and Sucker Punch all bounce harmlessly off its fiery steel hide. Even the dreaded Scizor's +2 Atk Life Orb Bullet Punch does a maximum of 24% to this Heatran, so without a crit it cannot OHKO. The only things Heatran needs to watch out for once it has set up is Aqua Jet, Mach Punch, and Vacuum Wave.

The IVs are a legit spread that allows your HP to be divisible by 4, which means Salac will activate on the fourth sub. It also gives you HP Ice 70, and in total you will only lose 1 Def point.
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So what do people think? Suggestions and criticisms are most welcome.

Thanks.

 

[RaikouLover]

I'm sure it does work... its Heatran. Looks fine to me

 

[Ryoku]

Wow I just had that Heatran set used against me yesterday. I think its a bit too easily walled, but its a beast in late game, like you mentioned.

 

[Venom]

That Heatran is gay (one handed my ass to me yesterday), it's all I can say lol

 

[RaikouLover]

Meh, Heatran is horribly overrated. It's just so easy to wall. It makes for an excellent lure though. I posted this set that is going up on the Heatran analysis via skiddle.

Lure!
Heatran @ Life Orb
Nature: Hasty
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Spe / 252 SpAtk
*Flamethrower
*Earth Power
*Stealth Rock
*Explosion

lay your rocks and blow up on the Bulky water or blissey. Then let your Gyarados or special sweeper run through their team.

 

[Legacy Raider]

That Heatran is gay (one handed my ass to me yesterday), it's all I can say lol

I've been using that Heatran ever since Garchomp was banned =P. I didn't write an analysis for it until now because I didn't want to give my surprise away lol.

EDIT: Another great Heatran set that I have been using is:

@ Shuca Berry
Modest - Flash Fire
32HP, 252 SpA, 224 Spe

- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- HP Ice
- Explosion / Protect

Survives Modest Specsmin Earth Power, Timid Life Orb Heatran Earth Power, Adamant Life Orb Salamence Earthquake, and OHKOs back with the respective moves. Outspeeds everything that EVs to outspeed Jolly TTar by 1 point. In this metagame, it is guaranteed at least one kill a match if played correctly.

 

[Bourbon]

Porygon-Z @ Life Orb
Mild
220 Attack, 72 SpA, 216 Spe

Return
Sharpen / Agility
Hidden Power Fighting
Ice Beam

So basically, Return 2HKOs both Snorlax and Blissey easily. An interesting bonus is that Sharpen boosted Return OHKOs Calm Blissey, which is pretty cool in my opinion. Of course, if you think you can sweep with Return, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam, you can try Agility. Or, you can use that Sharpen boosted Return, and hurt stuff, albeit on a slower, more powerful scale. I put Thunderbolt and Ice Beam so you can hit Skarmory and Hippowdon for huge damage, plus there is that neat Bolt Beam coverage you get.

Before you guys are like, "boo" sharpen sucks, lets compare it to other attacks, on a theoretical pokemon with 200 defense and 400 HP.

Standard Mixape's Life Orb Close Combat: 52.5%-62%
Jolly Mamoswine's Life Orb Earthquake: 62.75%-74%
Adamant Salamence's Life Orb Outrage: 85%-100%
Adamant Lucario's Life Orb Close Combat: 73.25%-86.25%
Adamant Scizor's Swords Danced Life Orb Bullet Punch: 82.25%-97%
Adamant Choice Band Heracross' Close Combat: 92.25%-108.75%

Porygon-Z's unboosted Life Orb Return: 58.25%-68.75%
Porygon-Z's Sharpened Life Orb Return: 87.5%-103%


Hmmm, looks pretty impressive compared to some of these other physical attackers, doesn't it? I am actually considering maybe a bit more Attack EVs to outdamage Choice Band Heracross after the Sharpen Boost.


I am rewriting the whole Porygon-Z analysis, so it might go up there. Opinions?

Last set on the page syndrome. I had a hard time getting it to work thanks to all the Scizors and Skymin on the ladder, but every time a Blissey switched in I killed it, and that's good enough for me. Then someone assumed it was all physical and switched in Gliscor, and I Ice Beamed it.

I am probably going to use Ice Beam and Hidden Power Fighting though, because it's walled by Tyranitar. Hidden Power Fighting should hurt it, coming off of 360 Special Attack and backed by a Life Orb.

 

[D3FAULT]

Credit goes to a friend of mine for this set. Went by Sasuke2222 on shoddy, but I think he's retired from shoddy now.

This set works WONDERS when you have screens up with DS Deoxys. It can work alone as well though.

Slowbro Trick Room/Belly Drum Sweep
Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP/76 Atk/180 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Aqua Tail
- Zen Headbutt
- Trick Room
- Belly Drum

I'm not sure about the EVs, but man does this thing sweep. Switch in to a ScarfTran stuck on Flamethrower or w/e, and Trick Room on the switch. Then Belly Drum while your opponent hits you with something. I've had people use Explosion on him and he lived with 29% hp left after the BD. (I had Reflect up of course.) For me he gets like 3 kills a game. Sometimes more if his lefties give him enough HP to Trick Room again.

It's usually easy as hell to set up. No one expects it, so they just try to stat up or something expecting you to switch. It's a fun set. Works best with DS Deoxys setting up screens like I said.

Opnions? I know it works because I've used it many times, but are there any better suggestions as far as EVs and such go?

Re-post ftw.

I want more comments on this pl0x.

I have also found this works a lot better late game when your opponent may not have anything super effective on it. If they don't, he'll more than likely live whatever it is they hit you with with ease.

 

[D3FAULT]

There's not much else to day about it D3FAULT except I think Waterfall > Aqua Tail and Return > Zen Headbutt. You don't want to be missing, do you?

Slowbro doesn't learn Waterfall, and I think Zen Headbutt is important for STAB, because even though he does have a high atk after a BD, he still won't OHKO a lot of things without it. I think the fact that Zen Headbutt will probably OHKO more things than Return will, makes up for the poor accuracy. Either:

a) you have a 90% of OHKO on a lot of Pokemon, and in that 10% chance that you miss (which is like 20% on shoddy, lol) you might get hit with something that kills you.

OR

b) you use Return, and although you will hit every time, there are more things that will not be OHKOd, allowing a sure hit on Slowbro.

Just my opinion I guess.

 

[D3FAULT]

Here's a Magnezone set I made. Not too creative, just very minor change to what's on the Smogon page.

Name: Fuck you Scizor!
Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP/48 Spd/208 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt
- Filler
- Filler

This set does what it's name says: Fucks Scizor. He has exactly enough speed EVs to outspeed minimum speed Scizor by 1 point so that he cannot SuperPower you, or U-turn out. He takes about 50% HP from an Adamanet +2 LO Bullet Punch, but imo it's worth it to completey screw him over with HP Fire. With Scizor on just about EVERY team, I think this guy is worth it. -_-

Also, if I ran my calcs right, HP Fire should OHKO Max HP minimum SpDef Scizor 100% of the time.

 

[gorm]

sub dd bounce wf gyara is amazing, expect a perr edit of it soon ^_^

 

[SithLord]

Thanks gormenghast! I wasnt quite sure if it merited its own set (as opposed to other options) so I pm'd Caelum about it.

But yea I think EVs need work...for one I would make HP to 336 which is a leftovers number and add more to defense or speed.

 

[Lee]

Milotic @ Leftovers
Bold
252 HP / 208 Def / 48 Spe
- Surf
- Haze
- Toxic
- Recover

Switches into offensive Cune and CMCune with impunity. Just alternate between Haze and Recover on the former until he kills himself with LO. Just use Toxic and Haze on the latter forcing him to Rest.

Breaks down Baton Pass chains, counters Bulky Waters, spreads status and generally walls stuff. Love it. Speed EVs are to outrun Suicune, Cress, Rotom (and Marowak ^_^).

 

[Astamatitos]

@ Shuca Berry
Modest - Flash Fire
32HP, 252 SpA, 224 Spe

- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- HP Ice
- Explosion / Protect

That's the most interesting moveset i've seen in the past 3 pages of this thread. I myself thought of running a shuca berry Heatran but never got the chance to build a team around it. Seems like you've put a lot of thought in the ev spread as well.

I don't see the reason to use Protect as an alternative to Explosion. If i were you i'd go with Roar as Heatran forces a lot of switches on it's own and with SR down you would be causing serious damage to your counters, such as Gyarados.

 

[Legacy Raider]

That's the most interesting moveset i've seen in the past 3 pages of this thread. I myself thought of running a shuca berry Heatran but never got the chance to build a team around it. Seems like you've put a lot of thought in the ev spread as well.

I don't see the reason to use Protect as an alternative to Explosion. If i were you i'd go with Roar as Heatran forces a lot of switches on it's own and with SR down you would be causing serious damage to your counters, such as Gyarados.

Thanks Astamstitos. I can assure you, it works excellently. Protect is really just a filler option, but the problem with Explosion is after surviving a Ground attack Heatran usually only has around 10-20% of its health left. This Heatran isn't extremely speedy either so it is not too hard to revenge kill once it kills one of your opponent's pokes.

But Protect is pretty much useless, like I said it is totally filler. It also lets the opponent know straightaway that you are not Scarfed, and may become wary of casually dismissing you with a ground attack. Like most Heatran sets, this one works best if your opponent is under the assumption that you cannot switch attacks.

 

[ExperimentaL]

I've always loved this Meganium set, although it's not 100% recreated, it's somewhat different from the (only) set in the analysis.

Stall / Support Meganium

Meganium @ Big Root
Ability: Overgrow
Nature: Bold
EVs: 216 HP / 148 Defense / 144 Sp. Attack
Giga Drain
Aromatherapy
Leech Seed
Reflect

Walled by grasses, obviously, but serves as an amazing counter to plenty of physical threats. Meganium can usually switch in on anything non-SE, set up a Reflect, Leech Seed, and stall away with Giga Drain.
Calculations
Adamant/16 Atk BulkyDos Waterfall: 17.18% - 20.28%
Adamant/16 Atk BulkyDos Ice Fang: 37.46% - 43.94%
Switch in on the Waterfall/Earthquake (EQ does even less), Reflect on the Ice Fang (if they even have it), successful stall.

Relaxed/52 Sp. Atk MixPert Ice Beam: 33.24% - 39.15%
Impish/6 Atk Swampert Avalanche (going second): 43.38% - 50.7%
Switch in, Giga Drain, 2 - 3HKO and easily outstalled due to Big Root's boost in recovery. I know, Swampert doesn't seem to have a place staying in on Meganium, but I've seen people get cocky and pay the price. Also, standard CursePert runs Restalk as well, so I didn't put anything in with a Curse'd Avalanche. Regardless, once you know it's physical you can set-up a Reflect and still outstall it.


I have to go for now, but if anybody is even interested in criticizing/getting more calculations, let me know.

 

[Stagnant]

-----------
Big Boss
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Honchkrow
@ Life Orb
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 Atk/212 Spd/46 SAtk or 252 Atk/ 4 Spd/252 SAtk
Lonely nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Pursuit
- Heat Wave
- Superpower

- Sucker Punch
​

---


Instead of saying what this can do I'm going to say what it can't do and that is... ???. Honestly, the only pokes that really "force" this Honchkrow to switch is Gyarados, Salamence, Swampert (Kind of) and Heatran if your not the ballsy type. Notice 3 of the 4 like to setup and the occasional Heatran as well. However, the point is you can easily slap on Hp Grass/ Ice/ Electric over Pursuit/ Sucker Punch to take care of their targets, respectivly. Superpower will demolish any Heatran.

Either Ev set works. The set: 252atk/212 Spe/ 46 SAtk is meant to out run Max Speed Adamant Scizor. I'm no EV genious so if you can come up with some better ones be my guess...

I would really like to see this set in the anylsis some time (Hint, Hint). If anything I suppose I could try writing one..
​

 

[panamaxis]

Wasn't it a relief when garchomp was banned? Didn't you hate it when you lost a game because your move failed to hit? Thought you were through with sand veil hax? Well think again, because I introduce to you the next most annoying thing....

Gliscor @ brightpowder
Ability: Sand Veil
Jolly
252 speed, 252 hp, 4 attack
Substitute
Roost
Toxic / Baton Pass
Earthquake

Now the idea here is you will be using this during sandstorm. Leftovers is not a necessity as you have roost to recover your health. With bright powder and sand veil it should be easy to get up a substitute. Now you can stall with toxic, by roosting and substituting when necessary. Toxic is the recommended option here, but baton pass can be used to set up a sweep (such as switching to gyarados on water attack, scizor on ice attacks, etc.) Runs enough speed to tie with max speed positive natured base 95's and beats lucario even if it chooses to run a jolly nature.

 

[MetaNite]

-----------
Big Boss
-----------

Honchkrow
@ Life Orb
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 Atk/212 Spd/46 SAtk or 252 Atk/ 4 Spd/252 SAtk
Lonely nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Pursuit
- Heat Wave
- Superpower

- Sucker Punch

​

---​

Instead of saying what this can do I'm going to say what it can't do and that is... ???. Honestly, the only pokes that really "force" this Honchkrow to switch is Gyarados, Salamence, Swampert (Kind of) and Heatran if your not the ballsy type. Notice 3 of the 4 like to setup and the occasional Heatran as well. However, the point is you can easily slap on Hp Grass/ Ice/ Electric over Pursuit/ Sucker Punch to take care of their targets, respectivly. Superpower will demolish any Heatran.​

Either Ev set works. The set: 252atk/212 Spe/ 46 SAtk is meant to out run Max Speed Adamant Scizor. I'm no EV genious so if you can come up with some better ones be my guess...​

I would really like to see this set in the anylsis some time (Hint, Hint). If anything I suppose I could try writing one..​

Meant to be used as a lead right? Can you come out against Bronzong using Gyro Ball? Do you outspeed Tyranitar... these are the questions that must be known.

Looks very good though, with Insomnia, but you'll need a lot of prediction.

 

[Kabuto Mushi]

Can I have some help on this Rotom set I've been working on? It only has a single attack right now... but once it sets up it's pretty annoying.

Rotom-C
Special wall/annoyer thing
-Leaf Storm
-Light Screen
-Will O Wisp/Confuse Ray
-Thunder Wave
Leftovers/Light Clay
Levitate
Calm
252 HP/100 Def/158 Spdef

Looks OK?

Of course you could use C or H depending on which attack is best for your team. I know WoW looks like the better option but... I've been using Confuse Ray for "parafusion" and even stuff that SHOULD KO (like CB tar using Pursuit) slips up... usually.

I like Cut better because it can hit grounds that switch in to take Thunder Wave, like Swampert. I've killed alot with it. I have a feeling that as the metagame for Platinum gets older WoW will become the better option again, though. Like people don't really expect it to be a Special wall now, so I still see like special attackers switch it. Heck, I've seen alot of people assume it's a grass type and try in vain to flamethrower it...

 

[Stagnant]

Meant to be used as a lead right?
Best used as lead. But he can sit on the bench as well.

Can you come out against Bronzong using Gyro Ball?
With the 212 Spe EV's you'll take around 60% from the Average Zong.

Do you outspeed Tyranitar... these are the questions that must be known.
Max Speed Neutral Nature Tyranitar hits 221. The 212EVd Krow will hit 231.

Looks very good though, with Insomnia, but you'll need a lot of prediction.
I rather use Super Luck just for the slim chance of netting a surprise KO. Not to mention with Hypnosis' accuarcy drop Sleep is much less common.

Honch Krow Vs. Common Leads (from September)...

Azelf- Pursuit + Sucker Punch

Gengar- Pursuit + Sucker Punch. This is where Insomnia becomes handy.

Bronzong- Heatwave can OHKO (I think with the 252EVs in SA) + Superpower (2HKO). Pursuit can finish it off as well.

Yanmega- Pursuit + Sucker Punch + Heatwave. Insomnia will again have it's merrits.

D-E- Leads are Dual Screen/ Spikers. Pursuit them into the Ground.

T-Tar- SuperPower 1HKO's

Ninjask- Probably best to switch. But Heatwave 1HKO's.

Metagross - You'll out speed most leads. Heatwave + SP or Pursuit will take him down.

Infernape - SuperPower + SP

Weavile - HeatWave or Superpower. Best not to stay in though.

Gyarados - with the set I provided best to just switch out. Otherwise Hp Electric will neuter it.

Zapdos - 2HKO him with SP. Highly unlikely of happening though. Best if you switch.

Abmasnow - SuperPower + HeatWave

Roserade - Heatwave + SP





Point being, Krow can kill pretty much anything xD.

 

[MKDSJedi]

With the first EV spread, do you OHKO Sassy Abomasnow/Adamant Scizor with Heat Wave?
EDIT: Yes, you KO Scizor. But even with max attack, un-switching out Pursuit 2HKOs Azelf.

 

[Green Mage]

@ Shuca Berry
Modest - Flash Fire
32HP, 252 SpA, 224 Spe

- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- HP Ice
- Explosion / Protect

Survives Modest Specsmin Earth Power, Timid Life Orb Heatran Earth Power, Adamant Life Orb Salamence Earthquake...

How does it fare against adamant/252atk duggy?

 

[Stagnant]

With the first EV spread, do you OHKO Sassy Abomasnow/Adamant Scizor with Heat Wave?
EDIT: Yes, you KO Scizor. But even with max attack, un-switching out Pursuit 2HKOs Azelf.

As I see it Azelf is going to do 1 of 2 things Taunt/SR or try to KO Honchkrow. You have 2 choices... You can use Pursuit to do several things. Them being break Azelf's sash, KO a Azelf switching out or that is using U-Turn, (here's my favorite one) it leads the opponent to think that Pursuit is Krow's main STAB (this happens ALOT, well like everytime) and falls for Sucker Punch, and worst case scenario is Azelf attacks while you Pursuit it. Sucker Punch can catch offensive Azelfs and KO them. All in all, PurSuit and SuckerPunch should eleminate Azelf leads.

Interesting note: Scarf Tran's HP Ice only does ~70% dmg to Krow. Leaving him open to Super Power.