Metagame SV UU Metagame Discussion - The Indigo Disk

[mrsuslawl]

obligatory not an RMT because i made this shit in 2 minutes

anyways after an enjoyable series of games facing iron boulder with scizor my brain had a thought: what if it was immune? now normally thats a dumb thought in OU where kingambit is everywhere except for a select few stall teams, but then I realized that I'm playing UU this month, so I cooked up a psyspam team. Only problem is that indeedee has zero pivot options sans healing wish. However, Hawlucha takes knock like an absolute champion, but this means that I can't use speed contro- oh wait I have boulder in the back. Anyways yall give this a spin and tell me what to say

description

IDD (Indeedee) (M) @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Psychic Surge
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Expanding Force
- Dazzling Gleam
- Encore
- Healing Wish

-terrain setter
-actually lowkey fast hitting 317 speed
-expanding force + dazzling gleam, although hitting soft, lets indeedee get the last laugh on weakened darks/poisons
-encore lets it goob common hazard setters for free switches
-healing wish lets it sac itself in midgame to give teammates one last chance

Masquerade (Hawlucha) @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Acrobatics
- Iron Head

-obligatory bird luchador, valuable speed control
-iron head lets it win the 1v1 vs +0 boulder
-sd lets it set up on the switch to become threatening
-replace iron head with substitute if you want to fuck pex even harder (acting as if this isn't psyspam...)

MiddleSchoolMenace (Iron Boulder) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Mighty Cleave
- Substitute
- Earthquake

-THE boulder
-substitute lets it set up on passive mons
-mighty + eq gives it the fabled EdgeQuake coverage
-replace any move for zen headbutt or cc if you're feeling spicy

Armaroge (Armarouge) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Weak Armor
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Endure
- Destiny Bond
- Armor Cannon
- Expanding Force

-valuable fire coverage lets it hit things like ballooned steels
-no heatran = goob party
-sash lets it live any one hit
-destiny bond for extra fun factor

(Iron Crown) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Agility
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Focus Blast

-standard crown set
-124 speed evs lets it outspeed scarf 350s, but less relevant after moth rise (still hits the rare scarf latios)
-focus blast to kill ttar after one wp proc

green fn (Maushold) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Population Bomb
- Bite
- Encore
- Tidy Up

-non-passive hazard removal is always nice
-actually really fast
-can finish off weak iron crowns (252 Atk Technician Maushold Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Iron Crown: 140-170 (36.4 - 44.2%) -- approx. 3HKO)

anyways the importable is here

fun fact i thought boulder drop was an april fools prank by the admins until i realized that its that time of the month again

 

[Moltracer]

You mean 3 months because we are back to the 3 months rise schedule

yeah imma just play another game atp

 

[Twilight]

I know it has only been a day but I've played a solid amount and I'm posting my thoughts hoping action is taken sooner rather than later because I would prefer not to play another week of this.

Iron Boulder does have a few defensive answers like Hippowdon, Slowbro, and bulky Hydrapple so I have found it can struggle occasionally into some bulkier structures though when factoring in SD + Tera and a potential Zen flinch it can still cheese through some of them. The main issue I have with Boulder is it decimates against offense matchups. The Speed tier coupled with the potential breaking prowess is pretty ridiculous with it being the fastest Pokemon in the tier now, outpacing even Greninja. You have to rely on priority or having Sturdy intact on Rockpon (assuming no flinch) to revenge kill it. Personally, I don't think Boulder offers anything good to the tier even if it isn't outright broken. It just constrains the builder just like another busted Rock Pokemon.

Yeah, I still think Rockpon needs to be removed from the tier. Pivoting around this Pokemon is limited to a select few Pokemon like Tinkaton, defensive Kommo-o, Hoodra, and Metagross. However, it has so much flexibility in the last slot it can flip the matchup against all of them if needed. Tantrum beats our Steel-types while Spiky Shield forces awkward interactions against Lokix and Tinkaton. Kommo-o is the best answer but without bulk, you will die to +2 Ivy with a bit of chip. It puts such a necessary emphasis on getting rocks up to break the Sturdy to revenge kill it, which it might end up offsetting by healing to full with Horn Leech anyway.

We have had rain come and go from the tier several times this gen but I do think for the health of the tier you should just quickban Pelipper tbh. Rain is way too restrictive to account for on top of everything else. Without Gastrodon you cannot prevent Barraskewda from slowly but surely destroying your team with CB Liquidation and Flip Turn. There are some bulky pivots into it like Hydrapple but the main issue here is it just Flip Turns into Zapdos to start clicking buttons.

Under rain, Zapdos is just a broken Pokemon. You can no longer miss Hurricane and you can run a stronger STAB in Thunder. Weather Ball renders Rhyperior, Harcanine, Sandy, and Excadrill unable to answer it defensively. While Zapdos is an infuriating Pokemon to answer even out of rain it offers way too much to the tier to ban over this playstyle. Banning Pelipper cuts down the effectiveness of rain drastically as they have to use Politoed instead which lacks a pivot move, longevity, and an offensive presence.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2093636016 Just an example of how annoying Barra was to stop and the longevity of Pelipper making a pretty big difference imo
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2094224307 I lose this matchup against a bulkier rain team running a Gastro compared to my more HO variant. I think it can show that without Water Absorb it can be hard to kill momentum vs these teams. It also highlights how obnoxious Boulder was for my offense.

I believe if all three of these elements go the tier will be in a much better spot and then we can focus our attention on Iron Crown and Latios if action even needs to be taken on them.



Some teams. I will say Pert is complete cheeks so you could just make it a Hippo on that team but I tested it regardless. I swear Lokix is the only thing preventing this tier from falling apart.

 

[Catcus]

Hello everyone, there's been plenty of talk of rain rn, and specifically its dominance over the tier. I feel that while the reaction makes sense, the anger is somewhat misdirected. So I thought I'd share my thoughts on what part of rain is too much, since we had rain in the tier before and it was fine, so what has changed(spoiler alert: its Zapdos, Zapdos is the problem)

Mr rain himself is mostly fine, hes obviously required for rain, and hes always decent there, but he's not usually the problem. I'd rather not ban him since banning him would basically just be banning the whole strategy of rain(no, politoed can't replace pelipper).
barraskewda obviously scary, but doesn't really match up that well into a lot of meta trends. his frailty makes him SUPER weak to priority.Banded Azu aqua jet does 50% in rain to Barra, Lokix OKs from full with tera or hazard chip and even arcanine scares it. priority was already huge in the meta, and Barra's weakness to it forces it to switch more, racking up hazard chip.it also still has defensive counters like rotom and gastro. barras strength and speed was already here before, and it was fine, so I don't think its the problem
if you look at the last section, you'll notice that Zapdos beats most of those guys, even out of rain. Zapdos was already a top 3 Mon before shifts since it discourages most physical moves, but now it has rain to make its hurricanes and thunders 100% accurate plus it can use weather ball now to destroy all ground types not named Gastrodon. without Zapdos, most of rains counters become much better and since pelipper has to use damp rock, the stategy becomes even more hazard weak. Zapdos feels like the obvious choice for a ban. after that,we can see if rain still feels like too much.

 

[bungeegum_420]

obligatory not an RMT because i made this shit in 2 minutes

anyways after an enjoyable series of games facing iron boulder with scizor my brain had a thought: what if it was immune? now normally thats a dumb thought in OU where kingambit is everywhere except for a select few stall teams, but then I realized that I'm playing UU this month, so I cooked up a psyspam team. Only problem is that indeedee has zero pivot options sans healing wish. However, Hawlucha takes knock like an absolute champion, but this means that I can't use speed contro- oh wait I have boulder in the back. Anyways yall give this a spin and tell me what to say

description

IDD (Indeedee) (M) @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Psychic Surge
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Expanding Force
- Dazzling Gleam
- Encore
- Healing Wish

-terrain setter
-actually lowkey fast hitting 317 speed
-expanding force + dazzling gleam, although hitting soft, lets indeedee get the last laugh on weakened darks/poisons
-encore lets it goob common hazard setters for free switches
-healing wish lets it sac itself in midgame to give teammates one last chance

Masquerade (Hawlucha) @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Acrobatics
- Iron Head

-obligatory bird luchador, valuable speed control
-iron head lets it win the 1v1 vs +0 boulder
-sd lets it set up on the switch to become threatening
-replace iron head with substitute if you want to fuck pex even harder (acting as if this isn't psyspam...)

MiddleSchoolMenace (Iron Boulder) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Mighty Cleave
- Substitute
- Earthquake

-THE boulder
-substitute lets it set up on passive mons
-mighty + eq gives it the fabled EdgeQuake coverage
-replace any move for zen headbutt or cc if you're feeling spicy

Armaroge (Armarouge) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Weak Armor
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Endure
- Destiny Bond
- Armor Cannon
- Expanding Force

-valuable fire coverage lets it hit things like ballooned steels
-no heatran = goob party
-sash lets it live any one hit
-destiny bond for extra fun factor

(Iron Crown) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Agility
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Focus Blast

-standard crown set
-124 speed evs lets it outspeed scarf 350s, but less relevant after moth rise (still hits the rare scarf latios)
-focus blast to kill ttar after one wp proc

green fn (Maushold) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Population Bomb
- Bite
- Encore
- Tidy Up

-non-passive hazard removal is always nice
-actually really fast
-can finish off weak iron crowns (252 Atk Technician Maushold Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Iron Crown: 140-170 (36.4 - 44.2%) -- approx. 3HKO)

anyways the importable is here

fun fact i thought boulder drop was an april fools prank by the admins until i realized that its that time of the month again

I tried psyspam and i'm admittedly poor at it, how do you deal with barraskewda in rain?
you can't rely on priority because of your own terrain
that was my biggest concern and i'm genuinely out of answers i just decided to use rain or sand instead

 

[Bluebox130]

I tried psyspam and i'm admittedly poor at it, how do you deal with barraskewda in rain?
you can't rely on priority because of your own terrain
that was my biggest concern and i'm genuinely out of answers i just decided to use rain or sand instead

Off the top of my head, I think a healthy hydrapple can come in safely against anything barraskewda does and threatens to do big damage or heal with giga drain as long as its not running the otherwise weak ice fang, Toxapex and Chestnaugt can work too if it doesn't run psychic fangs. For a revenge kill without priority I can only think of a full hp ogerpon-c.

Of course that's if you want to tank the damage. I'm sure someone could make a trick room psyspam team and get results against rain, but that's a little out there.

 

[BlueChedd3r]

random question i thought of, if they did, who do you guys think should be unbanned from UUBL?

 

[Heatranator]

random question i thought of, if they did, who do you guys think should be unbanned from UUBL?

Difficult question. I'd say none, but if I had a gun to my head and had to pick one, garchomp. It's really just because the rest are too egregious and garchomp at least is vaguely balanced.
On another note, I find it impressive that lokix has stayed UU this entire gen, despite the immense power creep of the tier. What tinted lens and priority does to a mf.

 

[BlueChedd3r]

Difficult question. I'd say none, but if I had a gun to my head and had to pick one, garchomp. It's really just because the rest are too egregious and garchomp at least is vaguely balanced.

makes sense, i'd probably pick blaziken because the meta looks like it could handle it but i could be dead wrong (latias seems likely but double dance is kinda cheap so yeah)

 

[Moyashi]

Off the top of my head, I think a healthy hydrapple can come in safely against anything barraskewda does and threatens to do big damage or heal with giga drain as long as its not running the otherwise weak ice fang, Toxapex and Chestnaugt can work too if it doesn't run psychic fangs. For a revenge kill without priority I can only think of a full hp ogerpon-c.

Hydrapple just gets flip turned on and brings in Zapdos who starts causing havoc. So not really honestly.

 

[Heatranator]

Hydrapple just gets flip turned on and brings in Zapdos who starts causing havoc. So not really honestly.

I'd say that's more of an issue with Zapdos then. Barra outside of rain is ass, and rain as a whole, while great, really benefits from Zapdos, who might be busted outside of rain.

 

[bungeegum_420]

I'd say that's more of an issue with Zapdos then. Barra outside of rain is ass, and rain as a whole, while great, really benefits from Zapdos, who might be busted outside of rain.

yeah archaludon zapdos is definitely the main problem in rain , there isn't the same need to prepare for flip turn barra if rain is weakened in some way

 

[mrsuslawl]

random question i thought of, if they did, who do you guys think should be unbanned from UUBL?

iron hands getting unbanned for the sixth time in gen 9 uu would be really fucking funny but tbh nothing really? I would say maybe blaziken since the meta is so rain infested but speed boost + swords dance + fucking upper hand seems really nasty.

 

[mrsuslawl]

yeah archaludon zapdos is definitely the main problem in rain , there isn't the same need to prepare for flip turn barra if rain is weakened in some way

barra only really works as speed control/revenge killer/maybe late game sweeper if its healthy enough but I think a lot of progress is made from those nuclear hurricanes/thunders/weatherballs that zapdos spams. last 3 teamslots are basically free to fill with rocks exca to act as a rocker/spinner and 2 other attackers. I don't really think that zapdos being banned is that good of an idea since it's not overpowering outside of rain, but who knows lol

 

[HammerX]

random question i thought of, if they did, who do you guys think should be unbanned from UUBL?

Definitely Blaziken, it has bad 4mss and in addition to rain being everywhere right now, Skeledirge and Toxapex are also two additions to the tier in the last few months that Blaziken doesn't like.

 

[Moyashi]

Definitely Blaziken, it has bad 4mss and in addition to rain being everywhere right now, Skeledirge and Toxapex are also two additions to the tier in the last few months that Blaziken doesn't like.

The word 4mss is so overused and misused it actually makes me scream internally ;-;

Stabs alone are enough for just about the entire tier. Toxapex can’t handle EQ and that leaves Dirge and one mon is not nearly enough. There are enough big threats to have to account for. Can we not try and drop banned stuff when there is arguably stuff present that should be focused on (rain/zapdos, boulder, latios to an extent)

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

broken vs offense esp ones without lokix (scizor to A tier when). But struggles vs defense... it just makes HO even stronger than it was before. Not fun to face, your defensive answers are solid indeed esp since its not very strong at +0 and getting setup without tera is a struggle... but vs BO and offensive teams ur often going to drop teams left and right esp ones without having a good way to outrun it esp since ogerpon, scarf latios, keldeo, booster crown, bond gren... yeah. i think its not broken but i dont give a dam if it gets booted



Havent faced it lol.... ladder is funny



I like this mon... revenges iron boulder, revengers some stuff, sucks into zapdos.... until you pull out

Scizor @ Metal Coat / Life Orb / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Close Combat
- Knock Off

Fuck slow zapdos and give them smth to eat on with a +2 knock off doing a fair bit to most def zapdos like a decent amonut esp since sometimes ur going to want to make zapdos way weaker for smth late game like NP torn-t.



I like SD clanger. SD clanger is funny esp with scale shot + close combat hitting a lot of the tier... compared to garchomp u can nuke smth like balloon tink, have p jab for azu, and with fighting / dragon u are more resistant to smth like mandibuzz, lokix thanks to bulk, and also mamoswine thanks to not being 4x weak and being more resistant to revenge killing thanks to being much harder to tech for.

Maybe DD is also good but i like SD for its breaking power against bulkier teams and scale shot helps a lot, maybe worth trying to.

Kommo-o @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Bulletproof / Soundproof
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Scale Shot
- Close Combat
- Iron Head

 

[BlueChedd3r]

I like SD clanger. SD clanger is funny esp with scale shot + close combat hitting a lot of the tier... compared to garchomp u can nuke smth like balloon tink, have p jab for azu, and with fighting / dragon u are more resistant to smth like mandibuzz, lokix thanks to bulk, and also mamoswine thanks to not being 4x weak and being more resistant to revenge killing thanks to being much harder to tech for.

Maybe DD is also good but i like SD for its breaking power against bulkier teams and scale shot helps a lot, maybe worth trying to.

Kommo-o @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Bulletproof / Soundproof
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Scale Shot
- Close Combat
- Iron Head

heck yeah finally someone else who likes SD kommo-o!

 

[BlueChedd3r]

finally new metagame thoughts since iron boulder is keeping me hostage:

In all seriousness though, iron boulder is a pokemon that matches up well depending on your opponents team, i've had ups and downs with this mon (im using the tera flying sub set) and it can break tons of defensive portions of teams but it can definitely can feel like a sore thumb, I wouldn't be sad if this left tho

/ / rain honestly could be too much rn but for now its mediocre to me, I tried it and it felt lackluster because pelipper is forced to run damp rock, so its very vulnerable to easy stealth rock chip, tera water barraskewda is very strong but priority almost always kills it, and is probably a liability when rain ends, zapdos is very strong with rain but without it, it's very average imo


(Kommo-o and Hydrapple):

/ These two are probably my favorite mons in the tier, Kommo-o provides tons of utility for the tier in its sets that can be good on a lot of teams (its a lot better on HO, but stall iron defense, body press could work) and as for fickle beam is just...funny, good coverage, nice tanking abilities, only thing thats sad is its typing but tera fixes this nicely

thanks for listening to me ramble on about UU with my horrible takes iron boulder's about to hit me with the meanest mighty cleave bye

 

[udongirl]

I think Iron Boulder should not be banned because UU was severely lacking speed control, and I personally think the presence of this pokemon has increased the variation in the build. Also, the fact that it still has many weaknesses and its raw attack power is not as high as it appears to be resonates quite a bit, and there are many matches where it fails to defeat its opponent in important situations.
It supplies things at least 10 times as much as the former garchomp in tier, and there are very few cases outside of the rain where an offensive set would shred the teams, I believe it is the pokemon furthest from a ban in the discussion.
Perhaps it could be countered if I wanted to, but since nearly all pokemon that once checked rain are no longer common now, it is likely that large numbers of pokemon would be banned in order to protect rain. I do not want such a metagame and therefore would like to see it banned.

 

[BlueChedd3r]

does anyone else here feel like latios is underwhelming, like everytime I use him he always just, disappoints me

 

[Moyashi]

does anyone else here feel like latios is underwhelming, like everytime I use him he always just, disappoints me

Not trying to be mean, and I don't say this to insult, but that just sounds like askill issue. Mon is super good and dominant, and quite centralizing. I don't see how it can disappoint you.

 

[mrsuslawl]

does anyone else here feel like latios is underwhelming, like everytime I use him he always just, disappoints me

maybe its the set? If you're using choiced I suggest using life orb, shits hella fun

 

[mrsuslawl]

me chimping out seeing big number on screen (im facing a fear team)

 

[Heatranator]

maybe its the set? If you're using choiced I suggest using life orb, shits hella fun

Maybe try the dd set? Idk, I thought this would be a straight up gimmick, but it seems legit.
Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Future Sight
- Earthquake
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 84 Def Iron Crown: 335-395 (104.3 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Tinkaton: 372-439 (99.4 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 291-343 (79.9 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 218-257 (63.9 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Ground Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Pecharunt: 361-429 (95 - 112.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Weezing can't switch in due to future sight, which still hits hard.
4 SpA Life Orb Latios Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Weezing-Galar: 564-665 (168.8 - 199.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It's probably worse than other latios sets, but it doesn't seem bad. Kinda like how somebody used dd hydreigon in SS UU, with a special move.