Doubles Ferrothorn


[OVERVIEW]
Ferrothorn finds its role in doubles as a great, hard-to-take-down pivot that can also take strong resisted moves and recovering the lost HP due to its access to Leech Seed. Its Grass / Steel typing also renders Ferrothorn a huge threat that can also close out games with its high-Base Power moves and proficiency chipping foes with Leech Seed. This is especially useful when Fire- and Fighting-type Pokemon have been eliminated, as Ferrothorn is able to check many common threats in the metagame such as the Tapu group, Steel-types barring Heatran, Psychic-type spam, Tyranitar, and rain teams in general. Its Grass typing also makes it a valuable check against Electric-types, setting it apart from other bulky Steel-types such as Celesteela. Ferrothorn is also handy versus bulky offensive teams, as it absorbs most hits they dish out. Ferrothorn has some offensive presence as well, thanks to a decent base 94 Attack stat and a typing that lets it hit common threats like Tapu Fini, Kyurem-B, Tyranitar, and Tapu Lele super effectively. However, its typing makes it 4x weak to Fire, rendering it almost deadweight when an opposing Fire-type Pokemon is out on field. Ferrothorn's base 20 Speed makes it one of the slowest Pokemon in the tier, which has drawbacks such as draining momentum but also brings good aspects with high Gyro Ball Base Power and high Speed under Trick Room.


[SET]
name: Tanky Pivot
move 1: Gyro Ball
move 2: Power Whip
move 3: Leech Seed
move 4: Protect
item: Leftovers
ability: Iron Barbs
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 32 Def / 148 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Gyro Ball is the main STAB attack, often boasting high Base Power due to Ferrothorn's low Speed, giving it decent damage output against all fast foes that don't resist Steel. Power Whip is Ferrothorn's secondary STAB move that gets the 2HKO on Pokemon that it should eliminate or hits super effectively like Milotic and Tapu Fini. It's also used to hit Steel-resistant or slow Pokemon like Mega Swampert and Pelipper that don't mind Gyro Ball too much. Leech Seed offers chip damage and sustainability at the same time. Protect is an essential move in doubles for shielding the Pokemon while its partner removes a threat for it, protecting Ferrothorn from potential double targeting, and scouting the foe's sets. It's particularly good on Ferrothorn too because if it manages to hit a foe with Leech Seed, the recovery it provides stacks with Leftovers, resulting in a lot more longevity.

Set Details
========
Giving Ferrothorn 252 HP EVs grants it more health, which pairs well with its already high defenses. The 32 Defense EVs allow it to survive two Double-Edges from 60 Attack Mega Salamence with Leftovers recovery. 76 Attack EVs let it OHKO fast Tapu Lele variants even at -1, and the remaining points are dumped in Special Defense for more general bulk. They also stack recovery with Leech Seed and increase Protect's effectiveness. Iron Barbs is used over Anticipation because it damages foes that make contact and discourages U-turn. It also breaks Focus Sash on Pokemon like Deoxys-A and accumulates chip damage alongside Leech Seed, which is Ferrothorn's main way of handling or checking certain threats. 0 Speed IVs provide Ferrothorn with minimal Speed, boosting the Base Power of Gyro Ball and enabling it to move faster under Trick Room. An Iapapa Berry may be used over Leftovers if instant recovery is valued more than the passive kind, along with the spread of 252 HP / 76 Atk / 104 Def / 76 SpD, which is tailored for the instant recovery to hit the mentioned benchmarks.

Usage Tips
========
In addition to its good pivot potential, Ferrothorn is good at regaining that lost health with Leech Seed, as the opponent is likely to switch out their Pokemon to something that can hit Ferrothorn decently, giving it chip damage and recovery combined with Leftovers. Ferrothorn can also close out games, since its bulk makes it hard to take down without either neutral double targeting or super effective hits, and it can replenish its HP with Leech Seed. This particular aspect highlights its aftorementioned pivoting capacity, as it can go on and off the field to take resisted hits without risking losing too much health. If you manage to take its counters out, it can passively win the battle with chip damage and Protect. Even before late-game, Ferrothorn can use Leech Seed on a predicted switch on a resistant foe to get chip damage and the recovery it provides. It's also good to use Protect with Ferrothorn to get another turn of Leech Seed recovery, but you should beware of losing too much momentum while doing so. However, still remain prudent of losing too much health this way, especially when Ferrothorn is your main check to specific threats on the opposing team, namely rain sweepers like Mega Swampert or powerful offensive Pokemon like Tapu Koko and Tapu Lele, as you want it to remain healthy in order to be able to switch in or take their attacks efficiently.

Team Options
========
Ferrothorn greatly improves a team's matchup against rain teams by resisting Kingdra and Mega Swampert's rain-boosted STAB attacks, which is notable when teambuilding if you are weak to the archetype. Ferrothorn appreciates teammates that can handle the Fire-types it dislikes facing, such as Heatran, Mega Charizard Y, and Volcanion. Checks to these include Landorus-T due to its Speed tier, outspeeding Fire-types when running a Choice Scarf and removing them with Earthquake or Rock Slide, or a Dragon-type that resists Fire, such as Zygarde. Those roles can be performed by Water-types like Tapu Fini, Milotic, Araquanid, and Rotom-W as well, giving Ferrothorn a place in a Fire / Water / Grass core on a team provided you have a Fire-type. Ferrothorn offers its own Fairy-type teammates such as Mega Gardevoir and Tapu Lele a switch-in to Steel-type attacks.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Stealth Rock can be used if a team is mostly weak to Mega Charizard Y or to break the Focus Sash of Pokemon such as Deoxys-A. Knock Off is a potential move to add if removing a foe's item is prioritized. An alternative set featuring Curse and Misty Seed, with Tapu Fini as a teammate, as the Special Defense boost increases its bulk is a potential option, helping it take hits better, which can increase Ferrothorn's chances of becoming a late-game cleaner after Fire-types or strong special attackers have been dealt with because it can be too bulky for the rest of their team to take down. Note that this is a bit harder to pull off, and Curse usually takes a valuable moveslot, making it somewhat niche. Chople Berry may be used to unexpectedly survive a Fighting-type attack such as Tapu Lele's Focus Blast and dish damage back or just set Leech Seed to cripple the foe. Thunder Wave isn't traditionally the best fourth move, but it can be considered as well for speed control, as it's unexpected and can cripple a fast threat. However, it weakens Ferrothorn's own Gyro Ball and can be prevented by an opposing Tapu Fini's Misty Terrain

Checks and Counters
===================
**Fire-types**: Ferrothorn doesn't really have much in its set to deal with Fire-types, such as Heatran, Mega Charizard Y, Volcarona, and Volcanion, as they OHKO it with their STAB moves. Fire-types can also drain momentum, as they almost always force a switch unless Ferrothorn's partner can check them.

**Fighting-types**: Fighting-types like Scrafty or Fighting-type coverage moves, such as Landorus-T and Deoxys-A's Superpower, can cause heavy damage to Ferrothorn, even if they are rare to come by.

**Steel-types**: Aside from using Leech Seed, Ferrothorn doesn't dent most Steel-types such as Mega Metagross and Celesteela, which can even carry Flamethrower to beat Ferrothorn.

**Substitute**: Substitute, generally used by faster Pokemon, blocks Leech Seed; this stops Ferrothorn from regaining HP. Pokemon that resist both of Ferrothorn's STAB moves, such as Aegislash and Celesteela, are key threats to it.

**Intimidate** Intimidate from Salamence and Landorus-T cuts Ferrothorn's Attack, meaning it loses its offensive presence and can only chip down foes with Leech Seed.

-----------------



[OVERVIEW]


  • Ferrothorn has high defensive stats with a typing that allows it to have few weaknesses, making it a great defensive backbone for most teams.
  • Steel/Grass typing allow it to act as a check to many common threats in the meta, such as the tapus, Steel types barring heatran, psychic spam, rain teams in general.
  • It's ability Iron Barbs also punishes physical attackers that target it, especially on a resisted hit or a switch in.
  • Still does great offensively thanks to a decent base 94 attack stat and typing that hits common types like fairy, water in the meta. Gyro Ball gains power from its low speed stat and Power whip's base 120 damage give Ferrothorn another reliable attack as well
  • Ferrothorn has access to leech seed which can wither down oppoenents slowly healing Ferrothorn at the same time and stacking up with leftovers while abusing protect. Leech seed also allows it to become a potential win condition after it's checks have been taken out in the late game.
  • However it's typing makes it x4 weak to fire, rendering it almost dead weight when an opposing fire pokemon is out on field, which is harmful since you are pretty much forced to switch it out. fire is a very common type in the tier, with the presence of Heatran and Charizard-Mega-Y/sun teams.
  • It's reliance on leech seed makes can also vulnerable to becoming a momentum drainer in many situations where it isn't in a position to do much to either of the opponent's pokemon on the feild, which can lead to them potentially taking a substitute or a free attack/set up
  • Ferrothorn 's base 20 speed makes it one of the slowest pokemon in the tier, which should be kept in mind
  • It also is generally used as a pivot to better take Water and Psychic-type moves, leaving it somewhat easily whittled over time. However the recovery from leftovers and leech seed slightly helps alleviate this problem
[SET]
Name: Utility
Move 1: Gyro Ball
Move 2: Power Whip
Move 3: Leech Seed
Move 4: Protect
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 32 Def / 148 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
  • Gyro Ball is more used, as it's often highly boosted in power due to the slowness of ferrothorn, giving it decent damage against all fast foes that don't resist Steel
  • Power Whip is Ferrothorn's second stab move. Power Whip gets the 2HKO on pokemon that it should or hits super effectively like Milotic, Tapu Fini
  • Leech seed is the move you will find yourself clicking the most, as Ferrothorn is better off with sustain rather than attacking, and benefits from the sapped HP a lot more since it's job is to check pokemon while chip damaging them.
  • Protect is an essential move in doubles for many reasons, like shielding the pokemon while its partner removes a threat for it, blocking a potential double target on it and could also be used to scout what the opponent uses. It's particularly good on Ferrothorn too because if you manage to set seeds, the recovery it provides stacks with leftovers gives Ferrothorn a lot more longevity.
========

Set Details
  • 252 HP gives Ferrothorn more health as its defenses are already high.
  • Survives 2 60 Atk Salamence-Mega double edges with leftovers recovery
  • 76 Atk are used to OHKO fast Tapu lele variants even after an intimidate
  • Rest is a dump in SpD. Leftovers allows it to hit many important benchmarks, and was used to make the EVs mentioned earlier. The passive recovery stacks with leech seed, and makes Protect better.
  • Iron Barbs is the ability of choice because combined with Ferrothorn's bulk it punishes resisted or weak contact physical attacks that Ferrothorn switches in to, can break the occasional focus sash like on a deoxys-A superpower and generally discourages u-turns. It also helps inflict chip damage, alongside leech seed, which is often Ferrothorn's way of handling or checking certain threats.
========

Usage Tips

  • Ferrothorn is generally added to the team when it is lacking a solid defensive backbone. It's typing gives the squad many useful resistances, and thus a switch in to many threats.
  • Ferrothorn can also be a late game win condition, since it's bulk makes it hard to take down without either neutral double targetting, or super effective hits, and it can replenish with seeds. Therefore if you manage to take its counters out, it can passively win the battle with chip damage and Protect.
  • Even when it isnt late game, Ferrothorn can still click Leech Seed on a predicted switch on a resistant foe to get chip damage and the recovery it provides. It's also good to protect on ferrothorn to get that recovery even if it isnt late game yet but beware of losing too much momentum while doing so.
  • Ferrothorn is somewhat of the team's defensive backbone, usually, so dont be afraid of switching it in on strong moves like a psycho boost to protect its teammates. However, still remain prudent of losing too much health this way, so that Ferrothorn can continue sponging hits for the team, bringing us back to how important gaining recovery is.
========

Team Options

  • Ferrothron appreciates teammates that can handle the fire types it dislikes facing, such as Heatran, Charizard-Mega-Y, Volcanion. Those include Landorus-T for its ability to generally outspeed with scarf and either rockslide/Earthquake threats away, or a dragon type that resists fire, such as earth power hydreigon. Those roles can be performed by Water types as well, like Tapu Fini, Milotic, Araquanid, Rotom-Wash etc
  • Ferrothorn also improves a team's match up vs rain comps by resisting Kingdra and Ludicolo's STAB attacks which is notable when teambuilding if you are rain weak.
  • In general Ferrothorn appreciates Fire and Water type teammates as well, which is the Fire/Water/Grass core's essence, since the three types synergize fantastically both offensively and defensively.
  • Ferrothorn also helps out Dragon type teammates by threatening fairies on the feild to be generally ohkoed (tapu lele, tapu fini, sylveon..) and offers its own fairy teammates a switch in from steel types while appreciating the fact that they cover its fighting weakness
========

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
  • The rare Stealth Rock variant can be used when a team is mostly Charizard weak, or to disable sashes like deoxys-a.
  • Knock off is a potential move to add if knocking off the opponent's item is prioritized.
  • An alternative set featuring Curse and Misty Seed (accounting that you have Tapu Fini as teammate) as the SpDef boost increases its bulk on both physical and special sides, helping it take hits better, which can increase Ferrothorn's chances of becoming a late game win condition for example, after fire types or strong special attackers have been dealt with, leaving it too bulky for the rest of their team to take down. Note that this is a bit harder to pull off tho, and curse usually takes a valuable move slot making it somewhat niche
  • Item wise, Chople Berry may be used to unexpectedly live a hit and dish damage back or just set seeds to cripple the opponent.
  • Thunderwave can be considered as well for speed control, as its unexpected and can cripple a fast threat. It does not work well with Gyro Ball though
=============

Checks and Counters

Fire types Ferrothron doesnt really have much in his set to deal with fire types such as Heatran, Charizard-Y, Volcarona, Volcanion and they mostly OHKO it with stab moves. Can also be a momentum drainer if a fire type is switched in against it, as a switch becomes rather needed unless the partner is able to do something about it

Fighting types or moves can cause heavily damage to Ferrothorn, namely Terrakion, Scrafty who have STAB Fighting type moves or Superpower Landorus and Deoxys-A.

Steel types Mostly because they wall Ferrothorn from using pretty much all its moves except leech seed, such as Metagross-Mega and Aegislash

Substitute Considering it blocks seeds and the opponent is generally faster, meaning they can set it up quick, it blocks Ferrothron's main move and source of sustain. This is even worst when the pokemon that subbed resists both Stabs like Aegislash, Celesteela

Intimidate cuts Ferrothorn's attack, making it not do much on the field aside from sapping HP at each turns end. Notable examples would be Salamence, Landorus, Scrafty

===================
 
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GenOne

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I've seen Matt use Choice Band to good success in his seasonals runs and friendly matches, so imo that deserves a mention in OO. On that set iirc he runs 252 HP / 252+ Atk, both stab moves, and some fillers such as Explosion and Stealth Rock. It actually does hit like a truck, esp. when you're not expecting it.
 
thunder wave was previously there but was taken away after recommendations to remove it.
i did not know about the band variant but if i can add it if required to

edit: put in thunderwave in oo
 
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talkingtree

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Apologies regarding Thunder Wave, when I said to remove it I meant just from the main set and dropping it down to OO. I should have clarified.

Talked with QC and the spread we decided on is 252 HP / 76 Atk / 32 Def / 148 SpD; Relaxed nature. This hits a few important benchmarks, surviving two 60 Atk Mega Salamence Double-Edges with Leftovers recovery and OHKOing fast Tapu Lele sets even after Intimidate, with a dump in SpD
60 Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 32+ Def Ferrothorn: 157-186 (44.6 - 52.8%) -- 24.6% chance to 2HKO
-1 76 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 282-332 (100.3 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

With some of the most popular physical attacks not even making contact (Thousand Arrows, Hyperspace Fury, Rock Slide/EQ), Leftovers should be the only item on the main set, so move Rocky Helmet down to OO.

With those set edits out of the way, a couple quick edits to the rest to go along with it:
  • [Overview] Take out the bit about operating well on Trick Room teams, the archetype generally has difficulty fitting Ferrothorn in; in my experience it tends to be more beneficial to non-TR teams and doesn't mind having to move last
  • [Overview] "4x weak to fire" is understating it, Ferrothorn becomes almost entirely useless when the opponent has a Fire-type on the field
  • [Overview] Add something about its low Speed and status as a pivot for Psychic- and Water-type moves leaving it somewhat easily whittled over the course of a match, though Leech Seed and Leftovers help ease this issue a bit
  • [Set] Make the edits I discussed above and switch Power Whip and Gyro Ball, Gyro is far more valuable in this metagame and should be listed as the main STAB. You discussed this in Moves, so just switch the order both here and below to reflect its status as the primary attack
  • [Moves] Scouting out field effects isn't really important for Ferrothorn - it doesn't care about any of the terrains, drops to Fire-type attacks regardless of sun and wouldn't want to stall out rain, and is nearly unaffected by Tailwind except to have a stronger Gyro Ball when the foe has it set. Edit the Protect bullet point accordingly
  • [Set Details] Update this section to fit the set changes
  • [Set Details] Iron Barbs needs a bullet point, it's superior to Anticipation and should be strongly recommended
  • [Usage Tips] Take out the bit about TR teams, that's more team options-y and I'm not sure I agree with it anyway
  • [Usage Tips] A couple more things to discuss: Leech Seeding on a predicted switch to a resistant foe, Protecting to heal when Seeds are up even not as a wincon; pivoting in on strong attacks for its teammates and making sure it retains high enough health to continue to do so throughout the match
  • [Team Options] The first bullet point should also mention Water-types (Araquanid, Milotic, Tapu Fini) as Fire-type countermeasures
  • [Team Options] Intimidate is useful for nearly every Pokemon, so we try to only mention it in Team Options when it's particularly relevant (Hoopa-U, Zard Y, Sylveon etc)
  • [Other Options] Add Rocky Helmet as discussed, Misty Seed and Curse also deserve spots here. CB is a little more iffy so I'll leave that up to whoever gives 2/2. Worry Seed isn't worth a moveslot and shouldn't be here.
  • [Checks and Counters] Each of these categories needs examples, preferably the most relevant and threatening from each category as well as any corner cases
This is a lot of changes, so let me know when you make them and I'll give this another look
 

talkingtree

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  • [Moves] Your Gyro Ball point says "without investment", but Ferrothorn has Atk investment now so that should be changed. Just say "... deals decent damage against all fast foes that don't resist Steel"
  • [Moves] Similarly, Power Whip is no longer the first STAB move. Also, with the updated spread, it has an 85% chance to 2HKO even max/max Tapu Fini, so I'd just say "... 2HKO on Pokemon it should like Milotic and Tapu Fini"
  • [Usage Tips] Take out the bit about Rocky Helmet because it's no longer slashed
  • [Team Options] Take out the Intimidate bullet point, every Pokemon appreciates Intimidate support and Ferrothorn doesn't have any particular need for it
  • [Team Options] The flow is a bit strange - I think the fourth bullet point is supposed to be after the first.
  • [Other Options] I prefer this section to be roughly in order of viability, so make it Thunder Wave -> Rocky Helmet -> Stealth Rock -> Misty Seed + Curse (each should only be used with the other) -> Knock Off -> Chople Berry. On reconsidering, Occa doesn't really help much against Fire-types because you can't do anything back to them anyway and Lum is very unlikely to be more useful than Leftovers
  • [Checks and Counters] Take TTar out of Fighting-types, Superpower isn't super common on it. Also mention that Deoxys-A gets its Sash broken by using Superpower and thus only checks Ferrothorn if it gets the KO, which would only happen if Ferrothorn is significantly weakened
  • [Checks and Counters] Try to pare down the number of examples in each section, including Pokemon only if they check Ferrothorn as a virtue of being a member of the larger category. For example, Heatran checks Ferrothorn because it is a Fire-type and uses Sub. The Steel-type makes Ferrothorn's Attacks even weaker, but it's not a reason I'd say that Heatran checks Ferrothorn. I can go into more detail about this in PMs if you're confused
Do those^ for QC 1/2 and then go ahead and start writing it up!
 

talkingtree

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The dex now supports IVs, so add a line at the end of the set "ivs: 0 Spe" and a line in Set Details about how 0 Spe IVs powers up Gyro Ball and doesn't really hurt Ferrothorn because it doesn't need to be faster than anything
 

DaAwesomeDude1

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Hi, amcheck :D

[OVERVIEW]
  • I'd mention that Ferrothorn is amazing vs bulky offense teams. It can switch into a lot of common Pokemon found on those teams (Fini, Zapdos, etc) and then just click Leech Seed and since their only way to do massive damage to Ferrothorn is usually like Hyperspace Fury or Mence Double Edge (both of which does like <50% lol), it makes Ferrothorn an excellent wincon against those teams.
  • This might be able to go under Usage Tips but I'll just mention it here. Ferrothorn's typing and the lack of Pokemon that can actually do massive damage to it in the meta (with the only common ones being Marshadow and Fire-types) makes it an excellent late game win condition against many teams.

[SET]
  • you're missing the set name
[Usage Tips]
  • you seem to be missing this section. It seems that it was there before since I see checks that talk about that section and I'm just assuming that it got accidentally deleted when you were fixing the format
[Team Options]
  • I'd replace the Hydreigon mention on Dragon-types that are good partners with Zygarde. Hydreigon isn't very good in the meta right now and it doesn't really force switches, unlike Zygarde (since Zygarde can setup and then basically win).
  • I would also remove Rotom-W from the Water-type mention and Sylveon from the Fairy-type mention. Add like Mega Gardevoir and Diancie instead.
  • Fairy-types, such as Mega Gardevoir, Mega Diancie, and Tapu Lele, are also good partners for Ferrothorn since they beat Fighting-types and Ferrothorn can beat like most Steel-type that threaten them.

[Checks and Counters]
  • add Marshadow as a check in the Fighting-type tab
  • It's kinda weird how you say that Ferrothorn beats Steel-types in the Overview but then list Steel-types as a Checks and Counters. I'd personally remove the Steel-types mention in Checks and Counters because the only Steel-type that actually beats Ferrothorn 1v1 is Substitute Aegislash (which you already have in the Substitute Section). Genesect / Celesteela could potentially beat Ferrothorn but that's only if they are running a Fire-type coverage attack (which is pretty uncommon for Genesect since it wants like 20 different moves). Mega Metagross can sub on Ferrothorn and block Leech Seed but none of its moves does any damage do Ferrothorn so Ferrothorn will still win against it 1v1 thanks to Iron Barbs.
  • I'd personally remove all mentions about burns since basically no Pokemon uses Will-o-Wisp (Mega Gengar would much prefer Taunt and Rotom-W is kind of bad right now).


I feel bad for adding more to your plate and idk if they are just gonna make it a new analysis for reservation or add it to this one but I think that Curse should be a main set since it's seen tour success (from stax and demantoid).
 

Idyll

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do the above except the part about fairies in Team Options for now, there's not much relevant fightings except for marsh and it's clear that lele and gard are no checks to him
 

Fran

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from my expierence pinch beries are equally as usefull, if not better, than leftovers is. you could expand on how chople allows it to check fighting types like marsh and terrakion while improving the deo match up. in the ov its worth mentioning that ferro is only picked over other steels due to its water res allowing it to check fini and rain. i think you underrestimate how usefull sr can be on more offensive teams, allowing it to take advantige of free turns it gets. i dont see why should you ever mention twave, it hasnt seen any usage in sm, between the para nerf and tapu fini prevelance is almost never a smart choice. also you fail to mention the main reason to run curse on ferro beeing the snorlax match up. in team options you could mention how its good on rain teams.
 
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Fran

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you can run 252 hp / 76 atk / 104 def / 76 sdef with relaxed, it does the same things but doesnt need leftovers to not get 2hkod by mence.
 

talkingtree

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Wiki Berry should be the first thing in OO, I'm not sure how I managed to forget that as we definitely discussed it in QC channel. I'd even be up for putting it in set details, but I'll leave that up to Memoric, who said he wanted to be the one to give 2/2. Ordering of OO isn't something I'm super sure on, and he's QC's resident Ferrothorn expert, so I'll leave him to choose what to do about TWave and Stealth Rock.
 
the task is done, kudos to awesomedude for making me noticed i deleted usage tips, lucky for us im a genius that saved the skeleton knowing ill make future mistakes.

implemented most of what's been said to suit the recomendations, what's next Memoric , talkingtree , DaAwesomeDude1

also, frania made a decent point about the spread but i want to make sure of what you guys think about the change
 
Hi amcheck,

First of all, i'd go through your analysis before sending it to gp and just make some grammar changes, like Fire-types, rewording 'psychic spam' and capitalising all items, moves etc. to make gp easier.

Overview
You might just want to say that even though base 20 speed is really bad, it can be quite useful when facing opposing trick room as youre p much guaranteed to go first.

Also, ferrothorn benefits massively from there being a lack of good fire/fighting types in the meta, which i think is at least worth a mention in the first sentence. i know you say later that its a threat once they have been removed, but that doesnt really highlight the fact that there arent many to begin with, which is why ferro is such a big threat.

Usage tips
I'd mention that since ferro is your steel of choice, it is most likely your main check to psychic types like deo a and lele. so basically make sure you arent letting ferro die before taking at least one of those out.

something i think is important too is to be very careful when switching in on mons youre supposed to check. due to ferro being ferro a lot of mons run extra coverage for it (e.g. z focus blast lele, flamethrower genesect) so always try to scout for these techs.

Team options
When mentioning fire types you want to say how well they do vs opposing grass types which ferro cant do much to at all (amoong, opposing ferro and m venu), while ferro deals with waters which give all but volcanion trouble.

you want to highlight fini when mentioning water types. it can heal pulse ferro to give it instant recovery. also matches up well vs marshadow/fightings in general as well as beating fires like youve said.

maybe something on mons that appreciate really fast threats like koko/skymin gone? since gyro smashes them. marshadow might be a good mention here as its just slower than both of those as well as lele/deo which ferro gyros too.

i feel like somewhere you should say that rain teams themselves are a good fit for ferrothorn, like rather than just water types in general. rain lessens the fire weakness and ferro also gives a good answer to fini/other waters that rain teams need. idk id add it but up to you

Other options
where you mention curse. say that it makes ferrothorn a much better answer to snorlax, as it cant hit that hard when youre boosting up alongside it. this is one of the main reasons to use curse ferro imo.

Checks and counters
In fighting types say that terrak takes a heavy hit from both ferro STABs, deo a doesnt ko with superpower and is koed in return since its sash gets broken.

I also know that all mentions of burn should be removed from checks and counters. its not seen anymore since fini is so popular.

Edit: f meant to tag memoric but you do it swb
 

Idyll

xD
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RBTT Champion
was it really the sixth?

OV
  • Ferrothorn isn't really "defensive", it's more of bulky attacker thing that's hard to take out.
  • ferrothorn isn't a defensive backbone, it's just part of it
  • you should make the fact that, for a really hard-to-kill attacker w/ strong stabs, leech and decent atk, it can function as a decent wincon.
  • highlight the grass-typing specifically, this is what sets it apart from celesteela as this lets it take on rain and electric-types such as zapdos and tapu koko
  • fire's not that common anymore so change the part where you say it is
  • you don't say much about its speed other than it's "something to keep in mind." this doesn't tell the reader anything. you could say the positive and negative aspects of it, such as boosting gyro, making ferro a bit of a momentum drag in some situations, and allowing it to function as a decent Trick Room counter-measure
Moves
  • Say that Whip is also for the slower foes that Gyro would be weaker against and the targets that resist Gyro itself.
  • Just say the Leech saps opponent HP while recovering Ferro's, you don't need to add other tacky stuff such as "it's the move you will find clicking the most." You only have to say what the moves do.
Usage Tips
  • You don't have to describe the the effectiveness of the typing thoroughly on the first sentence, it kind of makes it unnecessarily longer. It's should already be stated in the overview anyway, so just say the typing and bulk is really good for defensive purposes.
  • say something about it being a good pivot
  • This is p important, but you never really said it: you should say how Ferrothorn usually goes about its business, which is be a bulky attacker that constantly chips opponents down with Seed and attacks. It can be surprisingly strong with its power STAB moves, so make sure you parts where you say stuff about attacking here and there.
TO
  • You should put up the point about being rain-weak first since one of Ferro's most notable traits is the water resist.
  • the rest of this section seems a bit wonky, there's certain stuff like helping dragon-type teammates that dont need mentioning much because the mentioned fairies beat more than just that, etc. If you were to split this section up, it'd be better if it went through this way: teams that want a rain check, things that beat fires (grounds -> waters -> rocks), things that check marshadow
OO
  • Put a pinch berry in set details, mention iapapa. in terms of spread, use 252 HP / 76 Atk / 104 Def / 76 SpD which hits the same benchmark as the original except it doesn't factor lefties
  • mention marshadow for chople
  • get rid of helm
  • order should be Stealth Rock -> Knock -> Curse Set -> Chople -> TWave
C&C
  • remove burns, it's not relevant
tag if you implemented bro
 
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I think you mixed up your spreads. You use 252 HP / 76 Atk / 32 Def / 148 SpD Relaxed Nature if you are using Leftovers as the held item. If a pinch berry like Wiki is to be used, use 252 HP / 76 Atk / 104 Def / 76 SpD Relaxed Nature. On the main set, you currently have Leftovers as the item, and the Wiki Berry spread as the main EV spread. Since Leftovers is supposedly the sole item in the main set, use its corresponding spread as the main EV spread and describe that in the set details. Then in Other Options, briefly describe the Wiki berry and its own spread there.
 

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