Call of Winter
Banned deucer.
Shouldn't something be put in FAQ about how counteractive abilities work together? (aerilate + pixilate and the like)
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Metagame Shared Power [Under Re-Construction!]
- Thread starter Haaku.
- Start date
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Please ban WB. There are probably better builds than this, but even this one seems broken.
WB is probably the most insane thing allowed right now, made even more insane since it has an amazing synergy with SS and drizzle, and Basculin can abuse it alongside moldbreaker (banned abilities can be used, they just aren't passed to other mons).
Edit: Changed Basculin to Mega Gyarados because I'm dumb and I forgot it existed.
Araquanid @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Toxic
- Sticky Web
Pelipper @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
- Hydro Pump
- Roost
- Defog
- U-turn
Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
Yanmega @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Toxic
- Bug Buzz
- U-turn
- Defog
Tapu Lele @ Psychium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Toxic
- Sticky Web
Pelipper @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
- Hydro Pump
- Roost
- Defog
- U-turn
Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
Yanmega @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Toxic
- Bug Buzz
- U-turn
- Defog
Tapu Lele @ Psychium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
WB is probably the most insane thing allowed right now, made even more insane since it has an amazing synergy with SS and drizzle, and Basculin can abuse it alongside moldbreaker (banned abilities can be used, they just aren't passed to other mons).
Edit: Changed Basculin to Mega Gyarados because I'm dumb and I forgot it existed.
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Call of Winter
Banned deucer.
fwiw, mold breaker is banned so water absorb counters, I guess?
It was briefly discussed in the metagame workshop thread, but something that I think should be looked at are weather setting abilities, such as Drizzle, Sand Stream, Drought, and even Snow Warning. Weather abuse as a whole has potential to be overpowered in the metagame, especially if the potential to set weather is spread to every Pokemon in the team. I'd like to briefly go over the elements of each weather that make them potentially bannable, and get everyone's opinions about it.
Drizzle - Rain as a whole is arguably the most powerful of the four - with so many Pokemon that can be supported by Rain-boosted water moves + Swift Swim. In addition, Water Bubble support from Araquanid can push sweepers like Kingdra over the edge, and even newer rain sweepers in this metagame such as Keldeo.
Sand Stream - Sand builds it's merit by having an incredibly fearsome core to support it's team. Tyranitar-mega and Excadrill are both pokemon that are by no means dead weight when supporting their team with a speed boost, along with a bonus sand immunity. Along with a Dry Skin/Water absorb Pokemon to mitigate it's weakness to Rain, Sand could easily become a powerful archetype in the metagame.
Drought - While Chlorophyll has non-mega Venusaur as arguably it's best donator, it makes up for it by having a powerful Sun setter in Charizard-Y. While more restricted than rain, Sun can provide support to slower fire type pokemon, such as Heatran, allowing them to hit fast and hard where they normally would not be able to. In addition, while a more niche pick, Solar Power could also be key in making Drought un-spreadable. Finally, Sun will almost always beat Rain in most cases - Sun teams will almost always pack a water immunity in Dry Skin Toxicroak or Volcanion, while Rain will almost never be packing a fire immunity in Heatran.
Snow Warning - While Snow Warning may be the least common of the four, it still has potential for abuse - Aurora Veil becomes much easier to set under constant Hail, allowing for easier set-up by many popular setup sweepers who will have already had their speed doubled by slush rush. In addition, while also a niche pick, support from Ice Body or even Snow Cloak pokemon to the rest of the team could prove obnoxious.
Quick reminder that if these abilities did get the boot, they would still be usable by Pokemon who get them naturally, they just would not be spreadable to the rest of the team, therefore falling under the Share Clause mentioned in the FAQ of the OP.
Drizzle - Rain as a whole is arguably the most powerful of the four - with so many Pokemon that can be supported by Rain-boosted water moves + Swift Swim. In addition, Water Bubble support from Araquanid can push sweepers like Kingdra over the edge, and even newer rain sweepers in this metagame such as Keldeo.
Sand Stream - Sand builds it's merit by having an incredibly fearsome core to support it's team. Tyranitar-mega and Excadrill are both pokemon that are by no means dead weight when supporting their team with a speed boost, along with a bonus sand immunity. Along with a Dry Skin/Water absorb Pokemon to mitigate it's weakness to Rain, Sand could easily become a powerful archetype in the metagame.
Drought - While Chlorophyll has non-mega Venusaur as arguably it's best donator, it makes up for it by having a powerful Sun setter in Charizard-Y. While more restricted than rain, Sun can provide support to slower fire type pokemon, such as Heatran, allowing them to hit fast and hard where they normally would not be able to. In addition, while a more niche pick, Solar Power could also be key in making Drought un-spreadable. Finally, Sun will almost always beat Rain in most cases - Sun teams will almost always pack a water immunity in Dry Skin Toxicroak or Volcanion, while Rain will almost never be packing a fire immunity in Heatran.
Snow Warning - While Snow Warning may be the least common of the four, it still has potential for abuse - Aurora Veil becomes much easier to set under constant Hail, allowing for easier set-up by many popular setup sweepers who will have already had their speed doubled by slush rush. In addition, while also a niche pick, support from Ice Body or even Snow Cloak pokemon to the rest of the team could prove obnoxious.
Quick reminder that if these abilities did get the boot, they would still be usable by Pokemon who get them naturally, they just would not be spreadable to the rest of the team, therefore falling under the Share Clause mentioned in the FAQ of the OP.
An ability I'll definetly enjoy using is Tough Claws. It has two great users in Mega Aerodactyl and Mega Zard X, and if you want a non-mega, there's Dusk Lycanrock, I guess? Between that and Barbaracle, I'd use the dog.
Either way, Tough Claws allows for pretty powerful physical attackers. Two combos I thought of are Scizor + Mega Aero and Zard X + Tyrantrum:
Mega Aerodactyl + Scizor gives Bullet Punch incredible power, with both Technician and Tough Claws, while Mega Aerodactyl can use Aerial Ace as a good Flying move now.
Zard X + Tyrantrum does give you two dragons, but Tyrantrum is blessed by Rock Head STAB Head Smash (You can also use Aggron or Relicanth). Head Smash also makes contact, making you hit really hard. Meanwhile, Zard X no longer has to worry about Recoil from Flare Blitz
Also, Prism Armor + Solid Rock + Filter sounds incredibly gimmicky, but it'd be a bless to not care at all about SE moves
Either way, Tough Claws allows for pretty powerful physical attackers. Two combos I thought of are Scizor + Mega Aero and Zard X + Tyrantrum:
Mega Aerodactyl + Scizor gives Bullet Punch incredible power, with both Technician and Tough Claws, while Mega Aerodactyl can use Aerial Ace as a good Flying move now.
Zard X + Tyrantrum does give you two dragons, but Tyrantrum is blessed by Rock Head STAB Head Smash (You can also use Aggron or Relicanth). Head Smash also makes contact, making you hit really hard. Meanwhile, Zard X no longer has to worry about Recoil from Flare Blitz
Also, Prism Armor + Solid Rock + Filter sounds incredibly gimmicky, but it'd be a bless to not care at all about SE moves
It's banned from sharing. You can still abuse Mold Breaker on mons that get it naturally like Mega Gyarados and Basculin.
Call of Winter
Banned deucer.
The team's still runs issues with other weather / weather neutralisation and water absorb / storm drain still blocks 5/6 of the team.
Absolutely. My point with that team wasn't that the team itself is broken (it needs work), but that water bubble is. It's not realistic to expect every team to run a water immunity ability, and a lot of teams that do would still get slaughtered by Mega Gyarados.
I honestly don't agree with the fluffy/coat ban. With offenses power in this meta, even something like Weavile can potentially be brought up to do 35-42% to Bewear with Bite AND a 60% chance to flinch, and that's resisted. The team I have in mind is running Strong Jaw/Tech/Serene Grace/Adaptability and Tough Claws, but there are other options that make offense just as strong. What about Clefable? Clefable takes 59-70% from Tough Claws Ice Punch and up to 30% from Bite, meaning it can still be 2HKO'd. Heatran, Chansey, Toxapex and M-Sab are all 2HKO'd depending on EV distribution. If you opted to run Sheer Force over Serene Grace, this team wouldn't stand a chance, and Weavile itself doesn't even lend the team a useful offensive ability. Yeah you can switch around, but all Weavile needs to crush this team is Poison Jab, Ice Punch, Low Kick and Bite and some decent prediction.This meta looks fun! But isn't the team below a little unbeatable?
Like, how do you beat Fluffy + Unaware + Regen? It even has Flash Fire so the opponent can't take advantage of Fluffy! You'd be inclined to use a special attacker to break through this, right? But Is there any Special Attacker Chansey doesn't wall without set up?
I think something has to be done to address this kind of team, cuz' it genuinely seems broken, before you say anything about Corrosion, keep in mind Chansey has Natural Cure, but even then, Poison Heal would also be a great option here. Mold Breaker is restricted, so it's impossible to ignore Unaware and Magic Bounce.
I know that this is all theorymonning, but I can't think of any broken strategy that would let me beat this type of team...
Well, in meta's like Frantic Fusions where pokemon can have access to both abilities, which ability it chooses is decided at random each turn, so it's kind of a bad strategy. Not sure if that'll be the case here but it's either that or what Haakunite said.
Greninja's Water Shuriken receives a decent buff from WB, Tech and Drizzle, but the real star of the show is Water Pulse, which reaches a disgusting 840 BP when everything is taken into account. (More than an adaptability + aerilate explosion by a whopping 240 BP)
Sure, it's bunked up by Water Absorbers, but not much is gonna save you otherwise since this is capable of OHKO'ing even max HP+SpDef variants of both Eviolite Chansey as well as Toxapex. Even Assault Vest Toxapex is OHKO'd so you don't even need Tinted Lens to be honest.
The worst part is that Blastoise actually has higher damage output than Greninja and it's lower speed is somewhat mitigated by sticky webs. Greninja is necessary against offense teams though thanks to Shuriken.
The most absurd WB abuser I've been able to think of has been Greninja (Protean) + Crawdaunt (Adaptability) + Scizor (Technician) + Blastoise-mega (Mega Launcher) + Pelipper (Drizzle) + Araquanid (Water Bubble)
Greninja's Water Shuriken receives a decent buff from WB, Tech and Drizzle, but the real star of the show is Water Pulse, which reaches a disgusting 840 BP when everything is taken into account. (More than an adaptability + aerilate explosion by a whopping 240 BP)
Sure, it's bunked up by Water Absorbers, but not much is gonna save you otherwise since this is capable of OHKO'ing even max HP+SpDef variants of both Eviolite Chansey as well as Toxapex. Even Assault Vest Toxapex is OHKO'd so you don't even need Tinted Lens to be honest.
The worst part is that Blastoise actually has higher damage output than Greninja and it's lower speed is somewhat mitigated by sticky webs. Greninja is necessary against offense teams though thanks to Shuriken.
I'd recommend running either Mega Gyarados over Mega Blastoise, or Basculin over Crawdaunt to get past water absorb.
Dude, you can run Blacephalon over Celesteela to get that nice MG Mind Blown
No can do, MBlastoise is essential for getting Water Pulse to it's full power. Next best thing is Hydro Pump which only reaches 660 BP, a pretty significant drop from 840. If anything I'd run Basculin over Pelipper, as Pelipper helps the least against Water Absorb mons. MBlast and Crawdaunt at least power up Greninja's Dark Pulse.
Intimidate + Regenerator is nice, but the problem is that you have to choose between Intimidate or Unaware, since Unaware also ignores stat drops. Ignoring Unaware leaves you vulnerable to set-up sweepers and contrary mons and generally doesn't seem like a good decision on a Shared Power stall team.
Contrary isn't too bad as long as Unaware is around, and Contrary teams will be predictable as any mon without a move that can abuse it effectively either doesn't benefit from it or is actively hindered by it. For instance, running Beast Boost, Moxie or Download mons is completely detrimental to any team with Contrary in it, so you have to ask yourself if the idea of limiting your team building to a strategy that can be easily shut down by Unaware mons is really worth it over something like Download, that has more immediate benefits and better synergy with the majority of mons.
Simple just doesn't have very good donors at all. I agree it could be a problem but it's fairly easy to realize when the opponent is going to go for a boost if they have a Swoobat or Bibarel showing up in team preview.
Not related to your post but Magic Guard + Focus Sash could be a pain to deal with on offensive teams.
No Guard + Hustle's main problem is that the donors of either aren't fantastic or the best No Guard donor takes up a mega slot. While hustle has better alternative's like Tough Claws or Adaptability which make up for the lower raw power by not requiring No Guard to make up for their flaws. Meaning teams that include them can afford to run another damage boosting ability instead. No Guard itself has plenty of uses, but I think it's better used on stuff like Crobat which now gets the fastest hypnosis available with 100% accuracy, rather than trying to make hustle workable.
Intimidate + Regenerator is nice, but the problem is that you have to choose between Intimidate or Unaware, since Unaware also ignores stat drops. Ignoring Unaware leaves you vulnerable to set-up sweepers and contrary mons and generally doesn't seem like a good decision on a Shared Power stall team.
Contrary isn't too bad as long as Unaware is around, and Contrary teams will be predictable as any mon without a move that can abuse it effectively either doesn't benefit from it or is actively hindered by it. For instance, running Beast Boost, Moxie or Download mons is completely detrimental to any team with Contrary in it, so you have to ask yourself if the idea of limiting your team building to a strategy that can be easily shut down by Unaware mons is really worth it over something like Download, that has more immediate benefits and better synergy with the majority of mons.
Simple just doesn't have very good donors at all. I agree it could be a problem but it's fairly easy to realize when the opponent is going to go for a boost if they have a Swoobat or Bibarel showing up in team preview.
Not related to your post but Magic Guard + Focus Sash could be a pain to deal with on offensive teams.
Yay that was quick, im super excited for this meta to be omotm one day lol
Anyways here are my opinions on some of the stuff in the meta
dragonite definitely needs to be looked at, multiscale + magic guard is gonna be really dumb to face, and this mon can abuse many dumb stuff, aerliate + guts + magic guard facade is gonna be super disgusting, tinted lens/adaptability on top of all that just makes it worse
Water absorb is probably gonna be necessary on all teams unless u like losing to greninja/rain
Dazzling sounds really nice on scarfers to avoid being shrekt by powerful priority
Adaptability + tinted lens (+ sheer force?) sound filthy, makes mons like weavile disgusting
Also on playstyles, i think ho hands down is gonna be the best style in this meta with stuff like weather was and powerful offensive abilities
Ive tried building a fat team but the meta is way too hyperoffensive to be able to do that, no matter who i put alot of mons just seem to break it through it easily with combination of adaptability/tinted/sheer force, doesnt help that magic guard looks like its gonna be popular so toxic is useless against those teams, balance and stall looks ehh (maybe im just a shit builder tho), unless fur coat gets unbanned i dont see stall being that viable
Edit: oh i didnt know fluffy is not banned, ima start building with it now
Edit2: it got banned real quick, thats a shame
Anyways here are my opinions on some of the stuff in the meta
dragonite definitely needs to be looked at, multiscale + magic guard is gonna be really dumb to face, and this mon can abuse many dumb stuff, aerliate + guts + magic guard facade is gonna be super disgusting, tinted lens/adaptability on top of all that just makes it worse
+1 252+ Atk Guts Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja: 304-358 (106.6 - 125.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Guts Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingdra: 229-270 (78.6 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Dragonite Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 226-266 (57.3 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Unless fur coat gets unbanned, this otherwise hits too hard
+1 252+ Atk Guts Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingdra: 229-270 (78.6 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Dragonite Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 226-266 (57.3 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Unless fur coat gets unbanned, this otherwise hits too hard
Water absorb is probably gonna be necessary on all teams unless u like losing to greninja/rain
Dazzling sounds really nice on scarfers to avoid being shrekt by powerful priority
Adaptability + tinted lens (+ sheer force?) sound filthy, makes mons like weavile disgusting
252 Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Weavile Icicle Crash (221bp) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 302-356 (100.3 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
85x1.3(Sheer force)x2(adaptability)= 221bp boost
85x1.3(Sheer force)x2(adaptability)= 221bp boost
Also on playstyles, i think ho hands down is gonna be the best style in this meta with stuff like weather was and powerful offensive abilities
Ive tried building a fat team but the meta is way too hyperoffensive to be able to do that, no matter who i put alot of mons just seem to break it through it easily with combination of adaptability/tinted/sheer force, doesnt help that magic guard looks like its gonna be popular so toxic is useless against those teams, balance and stall looks ehh (maybe im just a shit builder tho), unless fur coat gets unbanned i dont see stall being that viable
Edit: oh i didnt know fluffy is not banned, ima start building with it now
Edit2: it got banned real quick, thats a shame
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Greninja-Ash Water Pulse (270 bp) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 948-1116 (134.8 - 158.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
60x1.5(tech)x2(wb)x1.5(mega launcher)= 270 bp
60x1.5(tech)x2(wb)x1.5(mega launcher)= 270 bp
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I don't think you can really assertively state that Dragonite should be looked at and then say that stall is unviable in the same breath. If Multiscale isn't enough to make stall viable, then it's certainly not THAT big of a help to frailer offensive teams. (The mons you listed in the calcs aren't really bulky in the slightest aside from Clefable, who's statistical bulk is still surpassed by a lot of other mons, and any offensive team that doesn't carry priority or dazzling/queenly majesty is making a huge mistake anyway)
It's a great ability and I think Dragonite could turn out to be a top tier mon here, at the very least it's an incredibly versatile one that fits onto a lot of playstyles, but broken? Not really.
You're correct in saying that offense is stupidly powerful though. I think if stall finds a way here, it'll be in the form of bulky offense teams that just happen to be able to stall thanks to their fantastic abilities (poison heal + guts + triage + multiscale is pretty dangerous)
Pure stall doesn't really have anything going for it with Magic Guard being as prevalent as it is, and even if that goes, Poison Heal hurts it's viability substantially anyway.
Also, take all calc's with a grain of salt. There are so many potential team compositions in this meta that anything we can come up with right now is hypothetical. We're going to have to wait until we can start playtesting and figuring out what the common sets/mons are if we want to be able to accurately gauge what abilities are and aren't broken in practice, and in what situations. And if Dragonite becomes a problem later on; we'll have to talk about what Haakunite said earlier in the OM workshop. Is Dragonite really the problem in the scenarios you suggested, or is it the fact that it gets access to Aerilate Facade + Guts? A strategy that's only as viable as it is due to Magic Guard saving MPinsir from it's rocks weakness and allowing Dragonite to spam Facade without receiving chip damage that would otherwise break it's multiscale. In this specific case, I would argue that Magic Guard is the problem more than any other part of the equation.
On that note, is Magic Bounce even worth banning when Magic Guard is allowed? The prevalence of the latter means that the formers hazard-rejecting powers are near meaningless. Status isn't very effective and even then, Magic Guard actually prevents damage from those statuses, whereas Magic Bounce mons are still capable of taking damage, they just can't be statused through the use of non-offensive moves. The only thing bounce does that MGuard doesn't is prevent stat dropping moves (which no-one uses), and stop the opponent from using Sticky Webs, which isn't really beneficial v stall anyway. MBounce mons aren't even noticeably better on offensive teams, since MGuard provides offensive mons with a free LO boost.
It's a great ability and I think Dragonite could turn out to be a top tier mon here, at the very least it's an incredibly versatile one that fits onto a lot of playstyles, but broken? Not really.
You're correct in saying that offense is stupidly powerful though. I think if stall finds a way here, it'll be in the form of bulky offense teams that just happen to be able to stall thanks to their fantastic abilities (poison heal + guts + triage + multiscale is pretty dangerous)
Pure stall doesn't really have anything going for it with Magic Guard being as prevalent as it is, and even if that goes, Poison Heal hurts it's viability substantially anyway.
Also, take all calc's with a grain of salt. There are so many potential team compositions in this meta that anything we can come up with right now is hypothetical. We're going to have to wait until we can start playtesting and figuring out what the common sets/mons are if we want to be able to accurately gauge what abilities are and aren't broken in practice, and in what situations. And if Dragonite becomes a problem later on; we'll have to talk about what Haakunite said earlier in the OM workshop. Is Dragonite really the problem in the scenarios you suggested, or is it the fact that it gets access to Aerilate Facade + Guts? A strategy that's only as viable as it is due to Magic Guard saving MPinsir from it's rocks weakness and allowing Dragonite to spam Facade without receiving chip damage that would otherwise break it's multiscale. In this specific case, I would argue that Magic Guard is the problem more than any other part of the equation.
On that note, is Magic Bounce even worth banning when Magic Guard is allowed? The prevalence of the latter means that the formers hazard-rejecting powers are near meaningless. Status isn't very effective and even then, Magic Guard actually prevents damage from those statuses, whereas Magic Bounce mons are still capable of taking damage, they just can't be statused through the use of non-offensive moves. The only thing bounce does that MGuard doesn't is prevent stat dropping moves (which no-one uses), and stop the opponent from using Sticky Webs, which isn't really beneficial v stall anyway. MBounce mons aren't even noticeably better on offensive teams, since MGuard provides offensive mons with a free LO boost.
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Ok so, here's a team I made that probably still has a lot to be worked with, but I wanted to share the idea overall:
So, first, let's quickly go over the abilities. Technician / Beast Boost / Steelworker / Adaptability / Tough Claws / Tinted Lens.
- Technician provides a boost to both Scizor's and Crawdaunt's priority moves. It allows Charizard to run Flame Charge for a boosting option, if you prefer to run Charge over Flare Blitz. Stakataka can also have some help from this if it decides to use Rock Blast instead of Stone Edge, and Technician also makes Scizor's Pursuit hit decently strong if the opponent stays in. Lastly, it can help Charizard against fairies due to Metal Claw being boosted.
- Beast Boost allows you to snowball easly with any of the mons on the team. Not much to say here that isn't obvious.
- Steelworker is a key element. It boosts Scizor's Bullet Punch, Stakataka's Gyro Ball and Mega Zard's Metal Claw / Iron Tail. In Dhelmise itself, it can still use Anchor Shot and Gyro Ball to be boosted by it.
- Adaptability turns everything into a power creep.
- Tough Claws is another key element here. Allows for both of the priority users to have it boosted, allows for Stakataka to have an even more powerful Gyro Ball, and helps Zard X just as ever
- Tinted Lens is filler, even tho it is a great ability. Combined with Adaptability, the stabs of the team will hit hard even if the foe resists.
Now, onto a look on the mons of the team and the team overall:
Overall, I like the team but it still has some issues. I'm open to suggestions on what to change on it.
Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Pursuit
- Superpower
Stakataka @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Protect
- Stone Edge / Rock Blast
Dhelmise @ Assault Vest
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature / Brave Nature
- Anchor Shot / Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Shadow Claw
- Knock Off / Gyro Ball
Crawdaunt @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Crabhammer
- Knock Off
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Iron Tail / Metal Claw
- Flame Charge / Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
Venomoth @ Black Sludge / Focus Sash
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Sludge Bomb / Roost
- Bug Buzz
- Toxic Spikes
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Pursuit
- Superpower
Stakataka @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Protect
- Stone Edge / Rock Blast
Dhelmise @ Assault Vest
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature / Brave Nature
- Anchor Shot / Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Shadow Claw
- Knock Off / Gyro Ball
Crawdaunt @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Crabhammer
- Knock Off
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Iron Tail / Metal Claw
- Flame Charge / Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
Venomoth @ Black Sludge / Focus Sash
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Sludge Bomb / Roost
- Bug Buzz
- Toxic Spikes
So, first, let's quickly go over the abilities. Technician / Beast Boost / Steelworker / Adaptability / Tough Claws / Tinted Lens.
- Technician provides a boost to both Scizor's and Crawdaunt's priority moves. It allows Charizard to run Flame Charge for a boosting option, if you prefer to run Charge over Flare Blitz. Stakataka can also have some help from this if it decides to use Rock Blast instead of Stone Edge, and Technician also makes Scizor's Pursuit hit decently strong if the opponent stays in. Lastly, it can help Charizard against fairies due to Metal Claw being boosted.
- Beast Boost allows you to snowball easly with any of the mons on the team. Not much to say here that isn't obvious.
- Steelworker is a key element. It boosts Scizor's Bullet Punch, Stakataka's Gyro Ball and Mega Zard's Metal Claw / Iron Tail. In Dhelmise itself, it can still use Anchor Shot and Gyro Ball to be boosted by it.
- Adaptability turns everything into a power creep.
- Tough Claws is another key element here. Allows for both of the priority users to have it boosted, allows for Stakataka to have an even more powerful Gyro Ball, and helps Zard X just as ever
- Tinted Lens is filler, even tho it is a great ability. Combined with Adaptability, the stabs of the team will hit hard even if the foe resists.
Now, onto a look on the mons of the team and the team overall:
Scizor was the first mon I had in mind when creating the team. When combining all the abilities, Bullet Punch reaches 234 Base Power, which comes from a Banded Scizor. Pursuit pressures foes to not switch, since it reaches 156 Base Power if they do. U-Turn has 182 Base Power as well, and Superpower is there for Steel foes, reaching 156. If the foe has no priority control, Bullet Punch can easly snowball with Beast Boost. It also easly revenge kills foes with Bullet Punch, and maybe even Pursuit.
With Steelworker, Tough Claws and Adaptability, a full-powered Gyro Ball (Which is almost always the case with 13 base speed) reaches 585 base power. Stakataka in general sounds like a good mon, specially under trick room, if you still have these other 3 abilities. It can set up pebbles and can opt to run Rock Blast boosted by Technician (Tho Gyro Ball will almost always be better). Earthquake is filler.
Mainly there to provide the team Steelworker. Power Whip hits 312 Base Power after Tough Claws and Adaps. Can also trap foes wih Anchor shot and use Knock Off effectively. Overall the mon is filler, but not dead weight.
With Technician, Tough Claws and Adaptability boosting Aqua Jet (Hitting 156 BP), it is also a great Priority abuser. It can set up with SD and start Aqua Jetting, tho there are a lot of Water Immune abilities, so be careful. It also gives Adaptability to the team, which is very important. Knock Off doesn't gain much from the other abilities aside from Tough Claws, which goes up to 338 if foe is holding a removable item.
The mega of the team that allows other mons to have Tough Claws. However, be sure to go mega as soon as you can. Having Steelworker gives it a great way to not be stuck against Fairies, with Metal Claw having 146 BP and Iron Tail with 195 BP. Flame Charge after adaptability also hits 195 BP and boosts you Speed, while Flare Blitz goes up to 312 (However since you have Beat Boost, longevity can be more appreciated than Raw Power)
Filler of the team. Only here to give Tinted Lens, but it could easly be replaced by Yanmega or any Levitate users. Tho it can still try to put up Toxic Spikes (Not sure if that'll even be relevant with Magic Guard around) and try to set up with Quiver Dance (Once again not that relevant because Unaware)
Overall, I like the team but it still has some issues. I'm open to suggestions on what to change on it.
Lol with prankster you could even get +1 sleep talks for Roaring. Komala should definitely be forbidden ASAP as was the case with STABmons. Although, with Magic Guard being not uncommon, there are blanket answers to the problem. Dark types can also stay in should the Roar choose to be prank-boosted. Shouldn't have to even be a problem in the first place, though.
Hey uh... so...
Landorus-therian + Mega-pinsir (Aerilate) + Gumshoos (Stakeout) + Starmie (Analytic) + PorygonZ (Adaptability) + Venomoth (Tinted Lens)
Landorus-therian's Explosion reaches an insane 1560 BP on anything it catches on the switch. A Choice Band set is capable of even OHKO'ing max HP/max Def FUR COAT Stakataka with this. It's situational and probably awful in practice but just... an example of what you can accomplish in this meta offensively.
Landorus-therian + Mega-pinsir (Aerilate) + Gumshoos (Stakeout) + Starmie (Analytic) + PorygonZ (Adaptability) + Venomoth (Tinted Lens)
Landorus-therian's Explosion reaches an insane 1560 BP on anything it catches on the switch. A Choice Band set is capable of even OHKO'ing max HP/max Def FUR COAT Stakataka with this. It's situational and probably awful in practice but just... an example of what you can accomplish in this meta offensively.
Thats why fluffy should be unbanned tbh, we have stuff that can reach like 400 bp easily WHILE ALSO having sand rush/swift swim or w/e but nothing to switch into it or outspeed. Its fair enough considering it only works on contact moves
Or weather can be done something about to nerf the HO a lil bit
With Poison Heal + Magic Guard, Poison Heal will take precedence and heal regardless of Magic Guard.
With Solar Power, Magic Guard negates damage taken from Solar Power similar to Life Orb.
The interactions between Weather and Surge abilities give me some pause - I wouldn't imagine that people would use more than one weather but can definitely see more than one terrain.. I'd imagine similar to the Aerilate + Pixilate situation Haakunite mentioned earlier, where the first pokemon in the party's ability takes precedence.
I checked both in Partners in Crime, Poison Heal still heals regardless of whether or not the mon also has Magic Guard, I assume the same will be true here. Solar Power still provides the buff as well, without taking any damage.
Was able to test Surge Surfer + Swift Swim by making sure my Swift Swim mon wouldn't outrun Greninja if only Swift Swim was taking effect. It ended up outrunning which means that Swift Swim + Surge Surfer will quadruple a mons speed stat.
Also thats a good argument tbh magic guard is way versatile, while magic bounce doesnt sound nearly as good as magic guard does
to be faireverything is just theorymon at this stage anyways, alot of things sound more broken than they might be in practice, aw well just have to wait until the meta is actually playable
I just tested Drought + Drizzle on the same mon in FF Ubers, and while I'm not positive it works this way; in every experience I had the mons secondary weather ability (Drizzle if I was using Groudon, Drought if I was using Kyogre) would activate first, followed by their primary (or true) ability.
Can't comment on how it will work for mons on multi-weather teams that don't have a weather setting ability naturally though.
Can't comment on how it will work for mons on multi-weather teams that don't have a weather setting ability naturally though.
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