Hello everyone im just dropping by to say that "if only that mon gets a move that breaks it, its the mon itself thats broken, not the move" has gotta be the faultiest statement ive ever seen, stored power breaks some mons, but we ban the mons instead like espathra, in the discussion of archaludon, it is obvious and as clear as day its not the problem at hand, electro shot, and rain are the roots of the problem, its like cutting branches off a tree and leaving the roots, to get rid of the tree that will grow back anyway, what is an ideal meta? Youll never arrive at it with tera theres always gonna be a top dog dominating, and thats completely fine , this is why im pro tera because nothing remains at the top for very long, but banning rage fist and keeping annihilape, banning jet punch and keeping palafin, banning electro shot and keeping archaludon doesnt impact the tier because those mons r the only ones who get the moves.
if the idea is to have a diverse meta, why not seize opportunities to keep pokemon by banning signature moves if those sigs break those pokemon, rain will never fall off, cuz post archaludon we have raging bolt and we have people who actually think its a problem, which is ridiculous, without the flip turn, the rain setter and the treads lead, without electro shot, archaludon is nothing but a nice check to meta threats like gambit and roaring moon, itll never be too overpowered once its factors get removed, i think the extender rocks should get the suspect here, helps with the sun threats and the rain threats, all the extender items, light clay etc, if you can ban sleep and make up an excuse saying "its closer to the cartridge" we can ban the rocks and say "its closer to a balanced and diverse metagame"
You can be against this stance i dont care, fight me, counterplay isnt just hard counters, thats absolutely ridiculous, soft checks, offensive checks, AGGRESSIVE checks, are all considered counterplay in my books, defensive or offensive, its still counterplay, should explain my list, u know what positioning is in a game, its crucial to position momentum to win a game. My definition of counterplay: be able to kill, force tera to revenge, cripple a pokemon with a status, weaken to low range, ability to switch in more than once, ability to switch in once, and ability to kill in 1 hit, all happen to be counterplay in my books, so dont come at my list of archaludon checks, this is my definition of counterplay, everybody has their own, and u cant change mine.
We need to learn to start assessing the roots of the problems at hand instead of outright assessing the pokemon all the time, we have a survey every 2 weeks , we have a small vocal minority on smogon supporting this, and the vast majority who play showdown, and non vocal playerbase on smogon that have stayed silent and let the circle jerk run the tier, its the most ridiculous thing i have ever seen , you lose to something too much in spl, everyone pays for it just cuz you cant adapt, not only am i coming at the policy (oh and dw ill consider putting it in policy review thread but im addressing more than just that in this post) , im coming at the premise that spl winrates determine what should be banned or not when ladder winrates should be calculated aswell, by that logic we should ban barraskewda, so im calling for a suspect on the extender weather rocks, and possibly light clay, but the only way we get it is if the public gets behind it, the majority of you are smart individuals , the circle jerk is very small in the suspect thread consists of only like 30 salty users, but here we are smart enough to realise that rain is the issue at hand if we keep banning rain abusers we end up with a less diverse metagame so this is what i propose:
Make a poll, with these questions( DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ARGUE MY PROPOSITION WITHOUT MAKING THE POLL AND DISPROVING IT THAT WAY WITH PUBLIC INPUT FIRST, WE ARE DEMOCRATIC):
Would you be opposed to suspecting electro shot or damp rock over archaludon?
Would you just like to ban Archaludon blindly without acknowledging its root issues?
Would archaludon still be considered unhealthy without its massive rain support and 8 rain turns?
Because trick room if it had an extender item, we would be banning ursaluna, and slow offensive threats aswell, which would eventually lead to us banning the extender, which proves my argument.
if you all are not opposed to my idea of testing the damp rock or the move electro shot, please vote do not ban.
Also, i can disprove the move ban fetish by saying we banned last respects a DAY before other users of the move dropped, only houndstone had it, we seemed uncertain if it was the move or the mon when it was clearly the move, because after we banned houndstone, we banned last respects a day before the other users dropped, and then unbanned houndstone, we didnt prove it was broken on other users which goes against the faulty policy anyway.
i would even go as far as to suggest, if signature moves are exclusive to one pokemon, and it breaks that pokemon it should be okay by precedent to test the move, not the pokemon, because if the pokemon becomes problematic without the move, u can just ban it, but give it a chance to thrive without the move, theres no harm in any of the rest of the tier if this is done since no other pokemon get the move.
And if you do not agree with this, make a poll and watch how much support this suggestion gets, because its more sensible than what the policy has to say, i would even encourage you all to put this in the policy review thread.
I think a metagame should be able to develop before we blindly act on stuff so quickly, whats the point of playing a tier if theres a survey every 2 weeks, it should be every 2-3 months, to give everything a chance to adapt, lemme juggle some memories here:
walking wake: everyone wanted this banned when it first came out, even you finch, this was by far the most broken in the eyes of the public, we ended up keeping it, and what happened, people adapted so nicely that you even admitted that u liked how they adapted, and spammable stab hydro steam draco, is wa y more spammable and easier to click than electro shot draco, atleast electro shot draco could be handled by clod, treads, hippo etc, wake required not only a bulky water, but a protect fairy aswell for defensive counterplay, remember?, And the rest was offensive counterplay, it ended up just fine, you can act on archaludon later but let people adapt to it first see if the hype dies down dont act on it so quickly.
hazards + gholdengo: Everyone wanted this banned when it first came out aswell, and what happened, we adapted (a bit less nicely than wake haha cuz dengo is kinda dumb), but we did adapt , and we were able to play in a meta where gholdengo was now deemed balanced by method of adaptation.
Dragonite: he dominated the meta for a few weeks early gen9, and there was a ban movement for him, now hes nowhere to be seen because we adapted, but its still good though, but now you see people dont view it as an issue anymore
iron Valiant: okay there was even a movement for this on release, i can confirm to you there is no counterplay to all iron valiant sets with the move terablast and tera in general included, encore sets, sd sets, cm sets, setup + encore sets, they can all cheese any mu with the right tera, this would be an example that no counterplay to every single set in a tera meta =/= broken, thats the case for each mon with tera, which is why this metagame is so unique, tera makes every matchup possible, so theres no impossible mus, absolutely the right move to not act on it, but in the future u can bring up the discussion, but until the day i die, im pro no restriction, keep the mechanic alive.
iron moth pre home: people said the only counters were blissey and ting lu, which still died to some sets, we adapted to this pokemon very nicely, it became even better with the dlcs, but no1 cared to explore it so thats why they dont see it, but if we can test arch, we can test this
garganacl : man this thing is still dumb as hell LOOOL, people tried to adapt, they never did, garg right now, has felt so dominant on the ladder and in tours, its way dumber than arch cuz it requires no support and spreads salt cure and rocks, free status absorber, free ghost resist, its ridiculous.
Ctc and others have made a lot of great points in his post about meta diversity and this further proves it, i was convinced that arch wasnt the issue, its the roots of the problem at hand, the weather extender rocks test, and the electro shot test, it allows the meta to keep arch while taming it, so we can have nice defensive utility that can set hazards. Have a nice day yall =), again i wont be reading responses just stating my personal opinions and unloading thoughts, any questions about my post, im a pm away , im on showdown as relic stone, my discord tag is stormzone , if u want a discussion, id be happy to discuss, and as always, if received negatively, then ignore my post, dont even react, if received positively show ur support with the heart reaction.
