Metagame 1v1 Metagame Discussion

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Felucia

Robot Empress
is a Battle Simulator Moderator
A lot of people are saying Everything in 1v1 is hax

People are referring to crit chance, chances of other moves missing or things like an Earth Power SpD drop. That's all hax and annoying, but not part of the strategy.
For convenience sake people also seem to forget Jirachi has a crit chance. My Specs Kyurem-Black can crit Earth Power to win but that ain't happening if Jirachi manages to crit me first.

Also I feel like people in general are not listening to each other but just try to fling opinions around and expect people to see they're right.
I'm going to dedicate the next few lines to what I think both sides of the argument are trying to say:

Pro-jirachi is trying to illustrate that Jirachi has counters by naming things that need a lot of flinches to lose, just use those things on your team and you're good to go considering Jirachi.
Pro-ban is trying to tell you that the odds aren't the issue all they're saying is that the fact that Jirachi in a good scenario has 20% chance to win regardless of what the opponent tries to do.

Ban-haters listen to me when I say: You're encouraging people to bring the amount of needed flinches up to 10-ish. Doesn't just the need to do that indicate there's something really strange going on here?
Pro-ban listen to me when I say: [insert wise words here] RIP now everyone knows I'm biased

~Mez
sudden post ending


Right after posting I said this in discord:
[5:03 PM] UOP is bad: There's no alternative to getting flinched 3 times, there is an alternative to missing
[5:03 PM] UOP is bad: That's why Jirachi is different from other hax

Feel like there's a lot of truth in what I said there
 
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pizzq

Banned deucer.
I lost in the first round of the 1v1 tournament because I got haxed by Jirachi.

Unless you only run 100% accurate moves and your opponent only uses 100% accurate moves and your opponent and you never speed tie and none of your moves have secondary effects and you're in reality just playing rock paper scissors and not Pokemon, you won't ever get haxed. Otherwise, you're going to get haxed.
I think people have confused Jirachi haxing them for being more unlucky than other things haxing them. Any pokemon Scarf Porygon-Z has to hit Hyper Beam against to beat has a 10% chance of haxing you. Jirachi has a little better chance than that to flinch someone four times in a row (10% vs 12.96%).

A crit has a 6.25% chance of happening. A Jirachi has a 4.6656% chance of flinching you 6 times in a row. It's not exactly out of the ordinary to lose to a crit. Why is it so terrible that Jirachi somehow got lucky and got 6 flinches in a row?

There is a .977% chance of missing 5 Sleep Powders in a row. There's a 1.01% chance that Jirachi flinches you 9 (nine!) times in a row. I've seen both happen. The chance of getting burned by Fire Punch and then missing Play Rough is 1%. That happened as I was writing this. Why is Jirachi getting banned and not Sleep Powder? What if I wanted to check Venusaur, Kyurem-Black, and Tapu Koko? Jirachi would be a good option. Why take that away because Jirachi haxing you is so much worse than some other Pokemon haxing you? Maybe if you think Jirachi winning with the 60% chance of flinching from one Serene Grace Iron Head is dumb, maybe then we should ban it.

I think we should allow Jirachi a single flinch from Iron Head. It needs it to beat almost anything. If we allow it a single flinch, then how is it any more broken or hax-filled than any other mon? Or anything in 1v1? You're going to lose to hax in 1v1 - in pokemon, for that matter. Jirachi isn't worse than any other pokemon in terms of hax.

Jirachi doesn't even need hax to beat some pokemon. It's not like you need to burn Ferrothorn or Genesect with Fire Punch or freeze Landorus with Ice Punch.

Shouldn't we at least ban accuracy-reducing moves before Jirachi? Those are only for haxing. Jirachi is a fine mon that I would hate to see be banned.
I understand the fact that lots of flinches are unlikely and similar to crits and other hax. However the only difference between these scenarios and Jirachi is that we CAN remove Jirachi as a problem. We aren't able to make Sleep Powder 100% or remove crits, but we are able to ban one of the most relevant luck based strats in the metagame. If we are able to make the meta less haxy why wouldn't we? The only difference between Jirachi and moves such as Flash is that Jirachi is the only one that is seen as a fixable problem. Why wouldn't we ban it??? And if Flash becomes more of an uncompetitive problem Why wouldn't we ban it too???
 
Does Jirachi Deserve a ban?

Let me start off with the fact I really don't care what happens with Jirachi. There are better mons (in my opinion) like Metagross-Mega that I'd rather use. Hopefully that proves I have no bias going into this problem. Ok, with that clarified let me get on with this. To start out defending both sides of the issue, I'm going to use a few of the closest comparisons I can find. These aren't perfect examples, but they display the issue nicely.

First off I'm going to compare Jirachi to Durant. While this comparison seems weird, Hustle grants Durant extra damage at the increased chance of a miss, while Serene Grace grants Jirachi extra damage (additional hits) as long as the opponent flinches, and the Iron Head output is really similar. However, I don't see Durant getting a hax based ban anytime soon.

Next we have OHKO moves. The probability of you winning against a random mon with a OHKO move is somewhat close as Jirachi's winrate (for fair comparison) after taking into account matchups. However, this comparison isn't perfect, but it'll have to do. OHKO moves were banned (68.4% vote for Gen V) not because they were consistently winning games, but rather because they discouraged fair gameplay. Perhaps Jirachi is similar?

Now for my final example, we have Cincinno. A Cincinno with Skill Link, a King's Rock, and a couple variants of multihit moves can be just as annoying as Jirachi. Why do I bring this up? Because if you ban Jirachi, you're gonna have to explain why mons like Cincinno and Togekiss aren't banned with it. Just an extra thought.

My conclusion? After taking a look at the mons and moves most similar to Jirachi, hopefully I gave you insight on the issue. Sure you can ban Jirachi, but seriously? I've lost to Gyarados-Mega Waterfall flinches more times than to Jirachi. My opinion after looking into this issue is that this is a waste of time.

(If you hate Jirachi that much though, run Metagross-Mega, and don't say Iron Head can hax a win, the chances are small and even then you can outspeed non-scarfers or just run Bullet Punch)

Good luck!
 
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Felucia

Robot Empress
is a Battle Simulator Moderator
First off I'm going to compare Jirachi to Durant. While this comparison seems weird, Hustle grants Durant extra damage at the increased chance of a miss, while Serene Grace grants Jirachi extra damage (additional hits) as long as the opponent flinches, and the Iron Head output is really similar. However, I don't see Durant getting a hax based ban anytime soon.
This is not something you can just compare.
Durant is an option that gives you extra damage, not even to ridiculous amounts, and it trades it for accuracy which is a chance that hurts the user
Jirachi on the other hand, gets an increased flinch chance which only hurts the target


I'd write more about Jirachi but... I've run out of stupid things to say...
~Mez
 
This is not something you can just compare.
Durant is an option that gives you extra damage, not even to ridiculous amounts, and it trades it for accuracy which is a chance that hurts the user
Jirachi on the other hand, gets an increased flinch chance which only hurts the target


I'd write more about Jirachi but... I've run out of stupid things to say...
~Mez
I thought I made it clear these weren't 100% accurate but rather the closest examples I could pull out of my hat. The point was simply that the two mons have a 60%/75% chance of being stronger.

Bringing that up was fine though, it is worth noting :)
 

pizzq

Banned deucer.
You guys can bring up crits and other haxy scenarios all you want. But we can't make all moves 100%, we can't ban flinches, and we can't ban crits. However we can remove a pokemon that relies so heavily on this and is by definition, uncompetitive. Why would we not ban Jirachi? I get it has other uses, but why would we not want to make the meta less haxy as whole? Sure you can bring up banning Flash and other accuracy lowering moves. It's just that these simply are not as good as Jirachi. We have the opportunity to create a less haxy meta, why not start with a mon that outclasses almost everything else in the hax department?
 
why not start with a mon that outclasses almost everything else in the hax department?
Because it doesn't outclass everything else in the hax department.


A few maxims for 1v1 players:

1. If you can only win with hax, go for hax.
2. If your team gets 3-0ed by a pokemon, assume they won't pick it.
3. Use Mega-Gyarados. Or use good pokemon.
4. The unexpected pokemon, moveset, or EV spread is very powerful in 1v1. To succeed at the highest level, your opponent cannot know everything about your team.
5. Lure sets aren't as good as lure teams.
6. Making the correct plays during a 1v1 battle is underrated, but equally important as team-building and choosing your pokemon.
7. Always be suspicious of 252/252 EV spreads. Ask yourself which pokemon you are trying to KO or not be KO'd by and which pokemon you are trying to outspeed.
8. Bulky offense is generally the best strategy in 1v1.
9. Hax is often an avoidable mistake or an unavoidable part of your strategy. Make sure it really was unlucky hax and not an error on your part.
10. Remember that you are facing everyone on the ladder when you choose to play. Be prepared to change your movesets, EVs, and team to counter the ladder.
 
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Felucia

Robot Empress
is a Battle Simulator Moderator
Because it doesn't outclass everything else in the hax department.


A few maxims for 1v1 players:

1. If you can only win with hax, go for hax.
2. If your team gets 3-0ed by a pokemon, assume they won't pick it.
3. Use Mega-Gyarados. Or use good pokemon.
4. The unexpected pokemon, moveset, or EV spread is very powerful in 1v1. To succeed at the highest level, your opponent cannot know everything about your team.
5. Lure sets aren't as good as lure teams.
6. Making the correct plays during a 1v1 battle is underrated, but equally important as team-building and choosing your pokemon.
7. Always be suspicious of 252/252 EV spreads. Ask yourself which pokemon you are trying to KO or not be KO'd by and which pokemon you are trying to outspeed.
8. Bulky offense is generally the best strategy in 1v1.
I'm with you until number 8, there is no single best strategy and it's all down to personal preference.
I do admit it's perculiar that all well-performing players seem to use bulky offense
 

pizzq

Banned deucer.
Because it doesn't outclass everything else in the hax department.


A few maxims for 1v1 players:

1. If you can only win with hax, go for hax.
2. If your team gets 3-0ed by a pokemon, assume they won't pick it.
3. Use Mega-Gyarados. Or use good pokemon.
4. The unexpected pokemon, moveset, or EV spread is very powerful in 1v1. To succeed at the highest level, your opponent cannot know everything about your team.
5. Lure sets aren't as good as lure teams.
6. Making the correct plays during a 1v1 battle is underrated, but equally important as team-building and choosing your pokemon.
7. Always be suspicious of 252/252 EV spreads. Ask yourself which pokemon you are trying to KO or not be KO'd by and which pokemon you are trying to outspeed.
8. Bulky offense is generally the best strategy in 1v1.
Ok fine it's not the best at haxing things....... whatever. I still think my point stands. We should actively try to remove the hax we can. When a mon relies on hax and many matchups are decided on luck....it's uncompetitive. Unlike all the other scenarios you and others bring up with crits, burns, and misses, this is something we can actually fix. And if it recieves enough attention for it's uncompetitive nature then clearly something is wrong. Same goes for accuracy reducing moves.

plz suspect rachi

and if enough people call for it even though i may not support it

suspect accuracy reducing
 
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Nalei

strong, wild garbage
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
I wanted to post a guide here on how you can predict which Charizard your opponent is running. Here's the 4 basic sets I'll be covering, but note that there are less common sets like a hybrid X and defensive Y.
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Dance
- Will-O-Wisp

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe*
Impish Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Outrage
- Will-O-Wisp/Counter/Substitute

Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blast Burn
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash/Flamethrower
- Ancient Power/Will-O-Wisp

Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 152 HP / 252 SpA / 104 Spe*
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blast Burn
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash/Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Electric]/Will-O-Wisp

*EVs are variable, suggested spread

Looking on the basic level, if your opponent's team lacks a physical attacker or DD user, it's most likely Charizard X. This is the most common approach the guessing what Charizard form your opponent is running, but also the least reliable. By comparing what each set beats, however, we can more accurately guess what set your opponent is running. Look at the rest of the opponent's team to see if they can or cannot beat these threats. If they can't beat it, and your opponent is a skilled teambuilder, it should be one of the sets listed after the names below.
Mega Gyarados: Offensive X, Bulky Y
Mega Charizard Y: Offensive X, Bulky X
Scarf Porygon-Z: Bulky Y
Offensive Mega Metagross: Offensive X, Bulky X, Bulky Y
Mega Pinsir: Bulky X
Mega Slowbro: [Modest] Offensive Y, Bulky Y
Tapu Koko: Offensive X
Tapu Lele: Offensive Y, Bulky Y
Donphan: Bulky X
Dragonite: Offensive X, Bulky X
Greninja: Bulky Y
Magnezone (Specs/Scarf/Electrium): Bulky X, Offensive X
Ghostium Mimikyu: Offensive X, Bulky X
Mega Venusaur: Offensive Y, Bulky Y
Kartana: Bulky X
Chansey: [Substitute] X

If you can't narrow it down to a set with those, you can take a look at common partners. If your opponent has one of these pokemon, they are more likely to have one Charizard than another.
Magnezone
Tapu Lele
Mega Venusaur
Chansey
Mega Slowbro

Black Kyurem
Jirachi
Garchomp
Mega Blastoise
Whimsicott

If everything somehow didn't give you a good answer, you're best off assuming X because:
Charizard-Mega-X | 12.01148%
Charizard-Mega-Y | 7.25288%
Might post one for Kyurem sometime too as it's so diverse.
 
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Felucia

Robot Empress
is a Battle Simulator Moderator
I wanted to post a guide here on how you can predict which Charizard your opponent is running. Here's the 4 basic sets I'll be covering, but note that there are less common sets like a hybrid X and defensive Y.
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Dance
- Will-O-Wisp

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe*
Impish Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Outrage
- Will-O-Wisp/Counter/Substitute

Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blast Burn
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash/Flamethrower
- Ancient Power/Will-O-Wisp

Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 152 HP / 252 SpA / 104 Spe*
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blast Burn
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash/Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Electric]/Will-O-Wisp

*EVs are variable, suggested spread

Looking on the basic level, if your opponent's team lacks a physical attacker or DD user, it's most likely Charizard X. This is the most common approach the guessing what Charizard form your opponent is running, but also the least reliable. By comparing what each set beats, however, we can more accurately guess what set your opponent is running. Look at the rest of the opponent's team to see if they can or cannot beat these threats. If they can't beat it, and your opponent is a skilled teambuilder, it should be one of the sets listed after the names below.
Mega Gyarados: Offensive X, Bulky Y
Mega Charizard Y: Offensive X, Bulky X
Scarf Porygon-Z: Bulky Y
Offensive Mega Metagross: Offensive X, Bulky X, Bulky Y
Mega Pinsir: Bulky X
Mega Slowbro: [Modest] Offensive Y, Bulky Y
Tapu Koko: Bulky X
Tapu Lele: Offensive Y, Bulky Y
Donphan: Bulky X
Dragonite: Offensive X, Bulky X
Greninja: Bulky Y
Magnezone (Specs/Scarf/Electrium): Bulky X, Offensive X
Ghostium Mimikyu: Offensive X, Bulky X
Mega Venusaur: Offensive Y, Bulky Y
Kartana: Bulky X

If you can't narrow it down to a set with those, you can take a look at common partners. If your opponent has one of these pokemon, they are more likely to have one Charizard than another.
Magnezone
Tapu Lele
Mega Venusaur
Chansey
Mega Slowbro

Kyurem
Jirachi
Garchomp
Mega Blastoise
Whimsicott

If everything somehow didn't give you a good answer, you're best off assuming X because:
Charizard-Mega-X | 12.01148%
Charizard-Mega-Y | 7.25288%
Might post one for Kyurem sometime too as it's so diverse.
I would add to this that good players always keep certain pokemon in mind when teambuilding, one of them being Chansey. If your opponent has no visible reliable way of beating Chansey, then you can bet on the charizard being X.
Same goes for Slowbro and ZardY
 

Nalei

strong, wild garbage
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
I would add to this that good players always keep certain pokemon in mind when teambuilding, one of them being Chansey. If your opponent has no visible reliable way of beating Chansey, then you can bet on the charizard being X.
Same goes for Slowbro and ZardY
I'll add Chansey and I already have Slowbro.
 
I'm gonna give my opinion on the Jirachi thing now that I have a bit of experience with the metagame (broke top 10 on ladder yesterday, but tilted back down lol).

I'm reading the pro-Jirachi players giving all these calcs on how many flinches are needed, but its not comparable with normal probability management. When you use a move (such as Focus Blast), you are bringing the risk of that move missing 30% of the time. With Jirachi, you cannot manage the probability if you are facing it - its like relying on your opponent to use Focus Blast and miss to win, which is ridiculous. Since you cannot control your opponent (obviously), you cannot manage the probability, therefore bringing it out of the players hands. It's just not competitive.

Anyway some of you know I've been using and abusing Snorlax on the ladder right now, I refined a perfect spread with it right now. It survives a Kyurem-Black Icium Z Freeze Shock, a Crustle Rock Wrecker at +2, Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc, Porygon-Z and Melotta Hyper Beam as well as every special Z move I can think of, and is 3HKO'd by many many things, such as Gyarados, Charizard, and other common threats.

It loses to Ghost types obviously, and Crunch is not a viable option as it takes 2 hits at +6 to KO KyuB and other things, just not gonna go into that.
Spread:
EVs: 240HP / 72 Atk / 196 Def


I run some speed creep in that obviously so watch out for mirror matchups ;)

Anyway, hope to see you guys in the 1v1 room and on the ladder!

P.S. I've been under the account Esteemed Random recently
 

lost heros

Meme Master
Okay, so I figured I should explain on the forums why I want Blaziken unbanned.

For those of you who don't know, I wrote a long, beautiful, time consuming post about Blaziken back in February. In that post I looked over how Blaziken would fare against every important Pokemon in the VR. Now as much as I want to do that again, I am somewhat busy and it takes a lot of effort. So I'm going to quote it here and if you want you can read it.
I'd like to bring up a pokemon that was almost unbanned last generation, but however did not because of a 15/15 split in the suspect test. This pokemon could be exceptionally important as we head to our new Mega Mawile Meta later this month. That beauty is of course, Blaziken. Here is a post from DEG during the suspect test as reference of what Blaziken offered and of course diminished about the ORAS meta it was tested in.
If you don't want to read at all, I'll summarize. Blaziken has strong and powerful Fire/Fighting STAB in Flare Blitz and High Jump Kick, or if Special Overheat. Blaziken would always run Protect just like how Gyarados-mega always runs Dragon Dance. It's fourth move slot option was very debatable with coverage options like Stone Edge, Thunder Punch, HP Ice, and Swords Dance. It could even potentially run Sub/Reversal.

Furthermore, it had the markings of an S-rank pokemon. Beating many deal of lower ranked pokemon and required always bringing a check like Slowbro-Mega, Deoxys-D, or Dragonite, as well as numerous sets to power through other pokemon. So, what pushed it over the edge? What made it too good for 15 people to vote no unban? From what I can gather, it's raw power practically guaranteeing it a slot in the S rank as well as the many 50/50s caused by it. Will it go for protect or for HJK or maybe Swords Dance?

In my opinion, it's very similar to Gyarados-Mega. +1 Gyarados-Mega and Life Orb Blaziken do very similar amounts of damage as shown below with their most powerful attacks on a Primeape. They both have very similar base speeds 81 vs 80, and rely on a move to boost their speed, Dragon Dance and Protect. They both have good coverage options to let them pick and choose they're counters.
Damage Output:
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primeape: 433-511 (159.7 - 188.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primeape: 370-436 (136.5 - 160.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I want to go through our current SuMo meta and see where Blaziken would fall. Looking at our current viability rankings:
Now before you go through all of the calcs that I present to you, I would like to bring up how I approached these. First and foremost, I assumed that both players knew which set the other was running and played optimally after that. This makes very little differences against and with Blaziken, but nonetheless it is worth mentioning. Secondly I assumed two main sets for Blaziken. A 252 Adamant Life Orb set with Protect, Flare Blitz, High Jump Kick, and either Thunder Punch or Stone Edge or a 252 Adamant Life Orb SubRev set with Protect, Substitute, Reversal, and Flare Blitz. I did not consider Overheat as I find it irrelevant. I did not consider Z-moves as that would triple the length and work for not much more information.
Instead I will provide a cost benefit analysis here for the use of Z-moves.

Flare Blitz has an effective BP of 156. High Jump Kick has an effective BP of 169. Inferno Overdrive has a BP of 190. All-out-pummeling has a BP of 195. Therefore, when using Firium-Z, Fire STAB increases by 21.7%. When using Fightinium-Z, Fighting STAB increases by 15.4%. All other moves, decrease in power by 23.1%. To KO with Inferno Overdrive over, Flare Blitz must do at least 82.1%. To KO with All-Out-Pummeling, High Jump Kick must do a minimum of 86.7%. In order for a coverage, or alternate STAB move to KO without LO, it must do 130% minimum.

Swords Dance isn't typically taken into consideration as Blaziken's frailty doesn't give it much opportunity to set-up. However, Swords Dance can provide Blaziken useful power against Stall Pokemon.

Gyarados-Mega
This match-up is very prediction based if Blaziken carries Thunder Punch. If it doesn't then it really can't win.
Without Tpunch: -1 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 237-281 (71.6 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With Tpunch
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 359-426 (108.4 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO OR -1 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados-Mega: 138-164 (41.6 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO OR -1 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 354-421 (106.9 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Gyara with Waterfall
252+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 372-440 (123.5 - 146.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(Note: My suggested Bulk 88/80 lowes Tpunch's KO Chance to 62.5%)

Charizard-Mega-X
This match-up: Even with Stone Edge, this match is in Charizard's favor.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 268-317 (90.2 - 106.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 339-400 (112.6 - 132.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This can also lead to some interesting 50/50s whether the or not Blaziken will go for protect turn 1. If it does and Charizard predicts with DDance to outspeed afterwards, Blaziken has to either risk the 1 in 3 double protect or go for the attack on a faster Zard X. Even then Blaziken would only KO 3/8 of the time. Whereas Zard X can easily KO regardless.

(Not a Protect/Sub/Reversal set shifts the outcome in to Blaziken's favor, but keeps the 50/50 of DDance our Outrage on Protect or Substitute respectively)

Charizard-Mega-Y:
With Stone Edge, this is an easy victory for Blaziken. Without, Thunder punch is a 50% chance and CharY could take it. SubReversal is practically useless.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 273-322 (91.9 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 723-853 (243.4 - 287.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Blast Burn vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken in Sun: 314-369 (104.3 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Crustle:
Crustle easily OHKOs Blaziken with Z-Rock Wrecker and Rock Wrecker and thanks to Sturdy Blaziken can't get around it.
252+ Atk Crustle Rock Wrecker vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 309-364 (102.6 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Kyurem-Black:
If KyuB runs Scarf, it can win. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Blaziken can rely on the double protect to win however.

252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 321-378 (106.6 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 881-1037 (225.3 - 265.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Magearna: Blaze wins
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 468-554 (128.9 - 152.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Porygon Z:
Similar match up with Kyurem-B. A Scarf
Porygon Z has a favorable match-up as Blaziken would have to rely on a Double Protect to outspeed.

Tapu Koko:
This an easy match-up for Tapu Koko regardless if it runs Modest or Timid (or physical). With Timid it outspeeds even after +1 from Blaziken, with modest it survives Blaziken's Flare Blitz and then OHKOs.
252 SpA Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken in Electric Terrain: 490-577 (162.7 - 191.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken in Electric Terrain: 291-343 (96.6 - 113.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 234-276 (83.2 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

SubReversal wouldn't do the trick either.


Greninja:
Scarf and Waterium-Z Hydro Cannon + Water Shuriken favors Greninja even against SubReversal. If not, then Blaziken.
-2 252 SpA Greninja Hydro Vortex (200 BP) vs. +2 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 186-222 (61.7 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Greninja Water Shuriken (15 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 168-204 (55.8 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Greninja Hydro Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 560-660 (186 - 219.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja: 395-465 (138.5 - 163.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Metagross-Mega:
Blaze wins.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Metagross-Mega: 374-439 (124.2 - 145.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Pinsir-Mega:
This favors Blaziken, however, a Bulk Up or Swords Dance + quick attack would force 50/50s as if Pinsir-Mega might predict the protect and go for swords dance or it might predict the attack then and go for giga impact.

252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pinsir-Mega: 452-533 (166.7 - 196.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 356-422 (118.2 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Slowbro-Mega
I'm not going to answer this and you can't make me.

Tapu Lele:
Psychium-Z and Choice Scarf Tapu Lele can make quick work of Blaziken. Although, Choice Scarf would have to rely on Blaziken not getting the double Protect.
-2 252+ SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. +2 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 320-378 (106.3 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 650-768 (215.9 - 255.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 335-395 (119.2 - 140.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Deoxys-D
Like most things, Blaziken has to get a crit. Fuck Crits.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys-Defense: 136-161 (44.8 - 53.1%) -- 30.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. +1 248 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys-Defense: 91-109 (30 - 35.9%) -- 37.1% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. +2 248 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys-Defense: 68-82 (22.4 - 27%) -- 24.9% chance to 4HKO
Etc.

Donphan:
Blaze stands no chance unless it run SubReversal
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 226-266 (58.8 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 246-290 (64 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 452-534 (150.1 - 177.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Dragonite:
Dragonite can easily take 2 STAB hits and respond after it Dragon Dances. Or it could kill with Devestating Drake, Supersonic Skystrike, or it could be Weakness policy if Blaziken uses Stone Edge.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 74-88 (19.1 - 22.7%) -- possible 6HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 149-175 (38.6 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 155-182 (40.1 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Z-move
-6 252+ Atk Dragonite Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 117-138 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-6 252+ Atk Dragonite Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 216-254 (71.7 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 131-155 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO

Weakness Policy
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 439-517 (145.8 - 171.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+3 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 326-384 (108.3 - 127.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Note: A good blaziken that is carrying Stone Edge could go for a HJK on a Weakness policy and then follow-up with a Stone Edge. This has a chance of working on Bulky Dragonite above, and is much better on Fast Dragonite. Of course, the prediction could also end in Dragonite's favor if it clicks EQ instead of Dragonite.

Garchomp:
Garchomp's got this easy

252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 298-351 (83.4 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 438-516 (145.5 - 171.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Magnezone:
Electrium-Z, Weakness Policy, and Choice Specs easily beat Blaziken, however Choice Scarf would lose
252 SpA Magnezone Gigavolt Havoc (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 405-477 (134.5 - 158.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 394-465 (130.8 - 154.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 361-426 (119.9 - 141.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Magnezone Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 241-285 (80 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Meloetta:
Again the scarf vs specs match-up. Scarf wins. Specs loses. Double protect wins.
252 SpA Meloetta Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 390-462 (129.5 - 153.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Meloetta: 352-417 (103.2 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mimikyu:
Fairium-Z and Ghostium-Z Mimikyu would win. Are there even other Mimikyu sets?

252 Atk Mimikyu Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 297-349 (98.6 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 237-280 (78.7 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 67-81 (22.2 - 26.9%) -- 27.9% chance to 4HKO

Venusaur-Mega:

Venusaur-Mega easily wins as it can just synthesize off protects.

252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Thick Fat Venusaur-Mega: 187-221 (51.5 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Aegislash:
This may seem like a 50/50 but Aegislash should win especially when considering the faster (blaziken's) protect would fail and Aegislash's won't.

252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield: 374-439 (115.4 - 135.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-2 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield: 187-221 (57.7 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-4 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield: 127-151 (39.1 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-6 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield: 94-112 (29 - 34.5%) -- 99% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Aegislash-Blade Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 390-459 (129.5 - 152.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Chansey:
You have one guess.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 759-897 (107.9 - 127.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Genesect:
Blaziken wins regardless of scarf or specs
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 1097-1300 (387.6 - 459.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Genesect Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 187-220 (62.1 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Kartana:
Choice Scarf Giga Impact wins anything else unsurprisingly loses.

252+ Atk Kartana Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 307-362 (101.9 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 832-988 (321.2 - 381.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Gengar-Mega:
If Gengar-Mega carries psychic or hits hypnosis it wins.
If Blaziken is Jolly or gets double protect, it wins.

252 SpA Gengar-Mega Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 322-380 (106.9 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Gengar-Mega Hex (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 348-411 (115.6 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar-Mega: 320-376 (122.1 - 143.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Jirachi:
Gets rekt
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jirachi: 530-624 (155.4 - 182.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Jumpluff:
With Speed Boost, the SubSeed combo becomes impossible after 2 turns.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jumpluff: 704-829 (241.9 - 284.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Landorus-I:
It's a coin toss. Unless Lando is scarfed (is that a thing?) then it's a 1/3 followed by a coin toss for Blaziken's win
252+ SpA Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 516-608 (171.4 - 201.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 289-341 (90.5 - 106.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Primarina:
I'm going to be honest. I have no fucking clue what Primarina runs. I think Primarina wins? Here's a bunch of calcs

252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 283-335 (94 - 111.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 283-335 (77.9 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Primarina Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 318-374 (105.6 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-6 252+ SpA Primarina Oceanic Operetta vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 230-272 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Tapu Fini:
Tapu Fini wins? Idk what it runs. It probably wins.

252 SpA Tapu Fini Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 390-458 (129.5 - 152.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Fini: 198-234 (70.4 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Togekiss:
So, if I'm not mistaken Togekiss is either bulky with twave and air hax or it's Scarf with air hax.
Bulky air hax loses to protect - > stone edge - > stone edge unless parahax on last stone edge. Scarf with air hax requires speed tie against timid or beats adamant.

252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 309-364 (82.8 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 312-368 (103.6 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Whimsicott:
Occa berry variants win. Other berry variants lose

252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Occa Berry Whimsicott: 231-274 (71.5 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Whimsicott: 463-549 (143.3 - 169.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Celesteela:

Blaziken wins
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Celesteela: 408-484 (102.7 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Golem:
Golem wins thanks to sturdy.
252+ Atk Golem Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 452-534 (150.1 - 177.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Nihilego:
Blaziken wins regardless of Nihilego's item.

252+ SpA Nihilego Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 190-225 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Nihilego: 519-612 (144.5 - 170.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Necrozma:
Necrozma wins
252 SpA Necrozma Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 390-458 (129.5 - 152.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma: 263-309 (78.5 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Rhyperior:
Rhyperior wins although not against Sub/Reversal
0 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 384-452 (127.5 - 150.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 528-622 (121.6 - 143.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 345-406 (79.4 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Tapu Bulu:

Blaziken wins
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 468-554 (136.4 - 161.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Sawk:
Choice Band (?) win Choice Scarf loses. Adamant Sawk gives a coin toss.

252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sawk: 363-426 (124.7 - 146.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Sawk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 255-300 (84.7 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sawk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 280-330 (93 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Victini:
Vicitini should win.

252 Atk Victini Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 290-344 (96.3 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Victini Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 320-378 (106.3 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Reversal (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 220-259 (64.5 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Blastoise-Mega:

Sub/Reversal wins but standard loses
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blastoise-Mega: 246-290 (82.2 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Reversal (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blastoise-Mega: 376-445 (125.7 - 148.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Blastoise-Mega Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 396-468 (131.5 - 155.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Heatran:

Blaze wins
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 546-642 (141.4 - 166.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Keldeo:

Keldeo usually loses to standard, but has a small chance to win.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 313-370 (96.9 - 114.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 480-566 (159.4 - 188%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mew:

Genesis Supernova wins
252 SpA Mew Genesis Supernova vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 678-798 (225.2 - 265.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 265-312 (77.7 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Pheromosa:

Jolly Pheromosa relies on a coin toss unless it uses Fightinium-Z. +1 Jolly Blaziken will Outspeed Adamant Pheromosa.

252 Atk Pheromosa Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 271-321 (90 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Pheromosa All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 430-507 (142.8 - 168.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 1032-1217 (364.6 - 430%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Sableye-Mega:

Blaziken can't OHKO, so Sableye-Mega can win with Metal burst, but not foul play.

252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sableye-Mega: 220-259 (72.3 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Sableye-Mega Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 107-126 (35.5 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Scizor-Mega:

Blaziken wins
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scizor-Mega: 608-717 (177.2 - 209%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Aron: (Aron is currently ranked C, but I'm not reviewing C and C- as no notable pokemon really are in C and C-. I do however still want to bring up Blaziken vs FEAR

Theoretically, Blaziken could beat FEAR with will-o-wisp, but I doubt many Blaziken will carry that.

If you do not wish to skim through each spoiler, which I surely understand, here is a summary.

Pokemon Blaziken Beats:
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Pokemon Blaziken Loses to:
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Pokemon Blaziken 50/50 in game:
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Pokemon Blaziken 50/50 in teambuilder:
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50/50 in game refers to coin tosses or predictions. 50/50 in team builder refers to set choices usually Scarf or not for other pokemon and Sub/Reversal for Blaziken.


So now, after carefully reading all of that and thinking about everything that I just mentioned you're probably wondering "Lost Heros, was it worth it? Is Blaziken being banned really that important to you?" Well, obviously yes. I don't think Blaziken should ever have been banned. If it's default state was "legal" rather than "banned" it would have been allowed last generation and this generation. Furthermore, it gives more variety to the metagame. So many top-tier pokemon are bulky offensive pokemon like Gyarados, and CharX. Blaziken is a simple, straightforward attacker which are sorely lacking as of now, and definitely would have a place in the metagame. It is by no means broken and doesn't cause many 50/50s in-game especially with the introduction of Z-moves which damage past protect. Because of all this, I would at least like to have a Blaziken suspect test later this month preferably.

TLDR: UNBAN BLAZE

DEG-Yesterday at 11:37 PM
Ur crazy
;^]

LostHeros-Yesterday at 11:39 PM
probably
Since this post there's been some discussion about Blaziken in the group chat, in the 1v1 room, and on the discord. I'm going to write some notable things we've talked about.

It's too strong with Life Orb and Z moves!
Yes, Blaziken is very strong especially with Life Orb and Z moves. But in no way is it stronger than other pokemon. Landorus-T, for example, sports a massive 145 base attack for its Groundium Z Earthquake. Dragonite has 134 Attack for its Dragonium Z Outrage. Terrakion has 129 Attack for its Rockium Z Stone Edge and Fightinium Z Close Combat. Yes, Blaziken has 2 good high BP STAB options, but those aren't outstanding. It only has 120 Attack and 110 SpA which is good, but it's not broken by far.

Mega Blaziken would be weaker!
Yes, looking at damage output Mega Blaziken is weaker. However, that's not the point. Mega Blaziken has 100 Speed versus Blaziken's 80 Speed. While that may not seem significant, that is very important speed tier that Mega Blaziken overcomes that Blaziken doesn't. Scarf Porygon-Z, Scarf Tapu Lele, Scarf Jirachi, Scarf Kyurem-B all outspeed regular Blaziken at +1. This means Blaziken has to go for a double protect just to outspeed them. Mega Blaziken, however, doesn't and can easily just win against these pokemon even with lower damage.

No one would use Life Orb Flare Blitz. We'd all use Endure+Reversal Liechi Berry!
Why. Just why. Relying on Endure Reversal puts so much pressure on you to get the correct prediction (Moreso than standard Protect). AND IT DOESN'T EVEN DO THAT SET THE BEST GDI. Hitmonlee has literally the exact same attack AND it gets fake out and is faster with Unburden, and reliable Hitmonlee's don't do that shit and just use normal gem substitute gdi.

There are too many 50/50s with protect.
I went over this with my post, but there really aren't. If you think there's a 50/50, what is really is happening is the Blaziken is more likely to lose than win. For example, against Charizard X. It may seem that it all depends against that first turn where Charizard has to try to predict the protect so it can sub/DDance. BUT, if you look at the damage: 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 268-317 (90.2 - 106.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO. Blaziken can't even secure the KO even IF IT HAS STONE EDGE. (Don't forget about Stone Edge/HJK accuracy too). There are less 50/50s with Blaziken than there are with Aegislash.

It has so much coverage/Can use Overheat to beat Physical Walls.
Honestly, it really doesn't. Not only does Blaziken lose a slot (Almost always) to protect, and another 2 to STAB, it has 3 options for coverage, and it'll be Stone Edge almost always. HP Ice back during the gen 6 suspect was for MegaMence most likely, and the only real advantage to Thunder Punch is that you can 50/50 Mgyara. Yes Overheat can be good, if you want to run mixed Blaziken, but really what physical wall are you trying to get around.

It was broken last gen that's why it was banned.
Okay, this probably shouldn't trigger me as much as it does, but it does. When Blaziken was tested back in gen 6, not only was it tested alongside Mega Salamence but also alongside Mega Blaziken. Because of this, these pokemon completely overshadowed Blaziken in usage on the ladder, so no one could really get a feel of how good base Blaziken actually was. For comparison, Blaziken had a usage of 63 | Blaziken | 1.71750% | 4778, while the other two had a usage of 12 | Blaziken-Mega | 5.76148% | 20997 and 2 | Salamence-Mega | 17.96112% | 45597. That's right. Blaziken would have been UU by usage. Not only that, but then there was a 15/15 tie for the suspect vote, and Blaziken remained banned by a technicality. If Mega Salamence had gotten the 15/15 vote, it would have stayed unbanned.

(Disclaimer, Blaziken and Mega Blaziken were only allowed on the ladder for a two week period in January of 2016. Mega Salamence was allowed for the whole month. This could explain some discrepancies, but even if we were to double the number of plays Blaziken got, it's not that noteable.)
(For those of you wondering, Umbreon had 98 | Umbreon | 0.23880% | 2748 that month. I know right, poor thing. Never got the love it clearly deserved).

At this point, I should probably say why I want Blaziken unbanned. Truly, it's very simple. Blaziken is a very balanced pokemon for the 1v1 tier that introduces some needed balance. The only viable fire types right now are the Mega Charizard forms (at S and A+) and Victini and Heatran (at C). Because of this there are so many Grass and Steel-types that it practically requires one of those 4 pokemon to beat them. Not running them puts the player at such a disadvantage and a single pokemon that can perform well against these Steel-types and maintain a high speed tier is so very appreciated. Not too mention, Blaziken doesn't outclass either Charizard forms (it still loses to Sturdy everything) nor even Heatran as Heatran is a fire type that can beat both Zards.

I'm sorry this post wasn't longer/cleaner. I just figured I should get this out while I still can. Blaziken deserves to be put on the pre-suspect slate next month, and I encourage everyone who gets reqs to vote for it. If you feel like I didn't address your concern, feel free to contact me and I'll put in this post my response.
 
I'd like to share with you all a nice little Primarina set I've been enjoying :]

Primarina @ Waterium Z
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Hydro Pump
- Moonblast
- Encore
- Aqua Jet

252 HP / 116 Defence guarantees you'll live Continental Crush from a 252 Attack Adamant Crustle, to which you obviously hit back with Z Hydro Pump to activate sturdy, then finish off with Aqua Jet the next turn!

0 IVs with a Quiet nature ensures that you're slow as balls, which is essential if you want to stand a chance vs Aegislash. While imo every Aegislash should be as slow as possible, that's not the case I'm finding on the ladder, which gives Primarina an excellent matchup!

140 SpA is obviously where the remainder of my EVs went since I still need to maintain 2HKO's on Dragons and bulky Steels.

Encore is just to screw over stall matchups and those occasionally pesky lvl1 Pokemon. No real need for any other coverage, there's not really anything else I could even fit that would help Primarina to break past its threats anyway.

Aqua Jet, as mentioned before, is purely for chip damage. The original idea of the set either way was to beat Crustle 1v1, but Aqua Jet also has use against Aegislash which is also quite a bother for my teams.

Now, for some calcs!
252+ Atk Crustle Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Primarina: 307-363 (84.3 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
140+ SpA Torrent Primarina Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Crustle: 1130-1332 (402.1 - 474%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0- Atk Torrent Primarina Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Crustle: 78-92 (27.7 - 32.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Clean win unless Crustle crits with Continental Crush (feelsbadman).
____________________

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 280-331 (76.9 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
140+ SpA Torrent Primarina Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 771-907 (237.9 - 279.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

140+ SpA Torrent Primarina Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 313-370 (96.6 - 114.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 280-331 (76.9 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Primarina: 69-82 (18.9 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO
-2 0 Atk Torrent Primarina Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 18-22 (5.5 - 6.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever


The first Aegislash related calcs show a clean OHKO, though it assumes that Primarina is going to be slower than Aegislash, which isn't always the case unfortunately. The second Aegislash related calc however is literally 50/50 after 50/50 and assumes that Aegislash is at minimum speed. If both are speed tied, it's just a matter of turn order to determine the winner.
____________________

252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Primarina: 83-98 (22.8 - 26.9%) -- 38.7% chance to 4HKO
140+ SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados-Mega: 246-290 (74.3 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Clean win unless Mega-Gyarados gets some flinches (feelsbadman)
____________________

252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Primarina: 296-350 (81.3 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
140+ SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-Black: 338-398 (86.4 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Torrent Primarina Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-Black: 25-30 (6.3 - 7.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Sure, it's not ideal, but you
can still win :D
____________________

252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 268-316 (73.6 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
140+ SpA Torrent Primarina Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y in Sun: 396-468 (133.3 - 157.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Yeah. This speaks for itself.
____________________

252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Primarina: 238-280 (65.3 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
140+ SpA Primarina Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-X: 342-403 (115.1 - 135.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This also speaks for itself! (Adamant Zard-X makes no difference as well)
____________________

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Primarina: 258-304 (70.8 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
140+ SpA Primarina Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross-Mega: 276-325 (91.6 - 107.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Primarina Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Metagross-Mega: 25-30 (8.3 - 9.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Fancy that, you even beat Mega-Metagross! That is, unless it manages to get the parahax on you from Thunder Punch / double flinch with Zen Headbutt (feelsworseman)


Edit: I am now using hydro cannon but cannot be bothered to change the calcs lol
 
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DEG

The night belongs to you
is a Community Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
With the pre-suspect nearing I'd like to hear more discussions on Pokemon proposed so I can combine them with the room poll to decide what we're including in the next slate. People seem on the same wave as last pre-suspect about both Jirachi and Mega Gyarados, while discussion of Darkrai and Power Construct were washed away. Blaziken seems to be another choice, while a previously mentioned Kyurem-Black was never discussed. While both of these new Pokemon have made their presence felt on the 1v1 thread, discussion seems to be absent and they don't seem to be a popular choice around the room. It is clear then that people are on the side on wanting Jirachi on the slate due to sheer amount of discussion about it, while Mega Gyarados is still the popular choice among the room as the poll shows clear dominance. I'm going to give my opinion on these Pokemon in order to spark up some discussion.

Re: Jirachi: Jirachi isn't that much of a popular choice in advanced players tactics but it sports good usage on ladder and tournaments when someone feel like just tossing up the game on luck. It isn't also the Pokemon that landed high on the Viability rankings due to numerous flaws, importantly being the dice rolls it creates. Luck can go both way and that's could be used in both pro-ban and no-ban favor. Despite, Jirachi's counter being abundant in the tier the fact that the odds aren't tilted in the favor of the counter Pokemon might be the problem that people are claiming, luck weights the win and loss the way it wants, and we can't really control the odds. Its typing is great, and has both Iron Head and Heart Stamp to vary in STAB moves which makes it able to adapt to Fire- and Water-type Pokemon. While, I might seem to be going toward a pro-ban, I'm indifferent to Jirachi but if I had to make a decision I'm tilting to a ban, but why should we ban Jirachi while other luck-inducting factors such as accuracy reducing moves and Togekiss aren't up in the slate of discussion?

Re: Gyaradosite: Refer here.

Blaziken: This Pokemon might be a little too much for the meta or won't be as good in the metagame. Last generation, Blaziken didn't really survive a suspect test due the sheer amount of unpredictability, 50/50s and force it brought to the metagame. With this gen and the introduction to Z-Crystal Blaziken might have just added more power in its arsenal. Its typing in Fighting/Fire makes it a great offensive threat scaring away the abundant Steel-type Pokemon. While this generation have added a lot of checks to Blaziken such as Groundium-Z Donphan, Primarina, Tapu Fini, Tapu Lele and more, Blaziken might just be the threat that it would of have been last gen. Though, Blaziken barely made it to the tier last generation and I do believe we can give it another chance.

Salamencite: I think Salamencite was lost in the shuffle when deciding if we should unban certain Pokemon. Mega Salamence was a Pokemon that survived most of the ORAS period as it only got banned late-ORAS, this Pokemon was a force that should always be prepared for. But now with more Pokemon and check and with the Aerilate nerf, I think we can give this big guy a chance.


*We have learnt from our mistakes, next Pre-suspect will not have a Public voting system, they will be private.
*I've thought of this, double suspect is bad for the metagame, so now if two Pokemon get the super majority one will be suspect the same month while the other will be suspect the following month without doing a pre-suspect that month.

Happy Discussion!
 

RNGIsFatal

Banned deucer.
The corrupt leader has been resurrected!

I will make this a short post since I agree with most of the stuff from the previous post, except one thing.

We already complain about Gyarados having Intimidate and OP abillity after Mega Evolution, and Kyu-B having fat bulk and stats that can be both physical and special.

Salamence has Intimidate unless you are smart enough to choose Moxie and Aerilate after Mega Evo, which is still OP after the nurf (as you can clearly see in Ubers meta) and lets it use Giga Impact and Hyper Voice as Flying type, making Mega Pinsir next to useless.

Also it has stuff like Draco Meteor, Fire Blast, Earthquake, and other plethora of coverages that can be used to cover the types its teams struggle against.

Sometimes, it will play mind games with Aegislash using Dragon Dance or Substitute, or simply roast it using Fire Blast with fat investment that lets it live Never Ending Nightmare and Shadow Sneak... I don't see how it will have its own place in 1v1 meta with OU banlist IMO.
 
I agree that everything listed could be suspected, along with maybe Darkrai in the distant future (opinions on each mon are different)

Just a random note, MegaMence also loses to a lot of the new z-move glass cannons. The damage nerf is quite crucial as well tbh.

On a side note I ruined the ladder for about 10 minutes while running this:

LORD HAX (Meloetta) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 100 Def / 140 SpA / 16 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Teeter Dance
- Rest
- Snore

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-565648881
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-565646074
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-565649442
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-565647907
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-565650563
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-565651944
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-565653415
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-565658608
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-565660127
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-565662481

You have permission to hate me.
 

Felucia

Robot Empress
is a Battle Simulator Moderator
With the pre-suspect nearing I'd like to hear more discussions on Pokemon proposed so I can combine them with the room poll to decide what we're including in the next slate. People seem on the same wave as last pre-suspect about both Jirachi and Mega Gyarados, while discussion of Darkrai and Power Construct were washed away. Blaziken seems to be another choice, while a previously mentioned Kyurem-Black was never discussed. While both of these new Pokemon have made their presence felt on the 1v1 thread, discussion seems to be absent and they don't seem to be a popular choice around the room. It is clear then that people are on the side on wanting Jirachi on the slate due to sheer amount of discussion about it, while Mega Gyarados is still the popular choice among the room as the poll shows clear dominance. I'm going to give my opinion on these Pokemon in order to spark up some discussion.

Re: Jirachi: Jirachi isn't that much of a popular choice in advanced players tactics but it sports good usage on ladder and tournaments when someone feel like just tossing up the game on luck. It isn't also the Pokemon that landed high on the Viability rankings due to numerous flaws, importantly being the dice rolls it creates. Luck can go both way and that's could be used in both pro-ban and no-ban favor. Despite, Jirachi's counter being abundant in the tier the fact that the odds aren't tilted in the favor of the counter Pokemon might be the problem that people are claiming, luck weights the win and loss the way it wants, and we can't really control the odds. Its typing is great, and has both Iron Head and Heart Stamp to vary in STAB moves which makes it able to adapt to Fire- and Water-type Pokemon. While, I might seem to be going toward a pro-ban, I'm indifferent to Jirachi but if I had to make a decision I'm tilting to a ban, but why should we ban Jirachi while other luck-inducting factors such as accuracy reducing moves and Togekiss aren't up in the slate of discussion?

Re: Gyaradosite: Refer here.

Blaziken: This Pokemon might be a little too much for the meta or won't be as good in the metagame. Last generation, Blaziken didn't really survive a suspect test due the sheer amount of unpredictability, 50/50s and force it brought to the metagame. With this gen and the introduction to Z-Crystal Blaziken might have just added more power in its arsenal. Its typing in Fighting/Fire makes it a great offensive threat scaring away the abundant Steel-type Pokemon. While this generation have added a lot of checks to Blaziken such as Groundium-Z Donphan, Primarina, Tapu Fini, Tapu Lele and more, Blaziken might just be the threat that it would of have been last gen. Though, Blaziken barely made it to the tier last generation and I do believe we can give it another chance.

Salamencite: I think Salamencite was lost in the shuffle when deciding if we should unban certain Pokemon. Mega Salamence was a Pokemon that survived most of the ORAS period as it only got banned late-ORAS, this Pokemon was a force that should always be prepared for. But now with more Pokemon and check and with the Aerilate nerf, I think we can give this big guy a chance.


*We have learnt from our mistakes, next Pre-suspect will not have a Public voting system, they will be private.
*I've thought of this, double suspect is bad for the metagame, so now if two Pokemon get the super majority one will be suspect the same month while the other will be suspect the following month without doing a pre-suspect that month.

Happy Discussion!
I'm pleasantly surprised, I didn't consider Mega Salamence at all and think it'd make a good addition to the metagame. Broken? Not with KyuB, Tapu Koko, Mimikyu and Gyarados(?) running around. Basically many top used Pokémon can stand up to the thing so I doubt it'd go out of control
 
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Jirachi - Not broken?
Honestly, I really don't think this mon is broken. Its presence in the metagame is not unhealthy, but rather annoying. Jirachi relies solely on flinching alone to win, which is too much of a gamble for me to see this Pokemon as broken. Its stabs are easy to wall and coverage options are rarely enough to deal with bulky targets / steels which your original flinch plan won't deal with. Quoting DEG here;
Jirachi isn't that much of a popular choice in advanced players tactics but it sports good usage on ladder and tournaments when someone feel like just tossing up the game on luck. It isn't also the Pokemon that landed high on the Viability rankings due to numerous flaws, importantly being the dice rolls it creates.
Using a dice roll as a means to justify a ban for Jirachi is not enough to convince me, personally. As mentioned, it has numerous flaws which place it rather low on the Viability rankings. An annoying Pokemon but not influential enough to warrant a ban.
 
Honestly, I really don't think this mon is broken. Its presence in the metagame is not unhealthy, but rather annoying. Jirachi relies solely on flinching alone to win, which is too much of a gamble for me to see this Pokemon as broken.​

If Jirachi did not have serene grace and flinch moves then no one would use it. It requires hax to beat most of the tier and that makes it outright uncompetitive. Sure bright powder and accuracy reducing moves do the same thing and they should be banned but that does not change the fact that Jirachi does not add anything healthy to the metagame. Whether or not a strategy is good shouldn't be a factor in deciding if something is competitive or not.
 

RNGIsFatal

Banned deucer.
There is a difference between Jirachi, the one that is annoying as fuck and is only used by elementary luck-wisher and Darkrai, one of the candidates for the double suspect for the April. This will explain why Jirachi is the specific banworthy hax user.



100 stats in each are good for defense but it never OHKOes anything. Like parr0t said, Jirachi will be absolutely useless outsides having serene grace and flinching the opponent.
The viability with Scarf + Iron Head spam is bad because Trick is now blocked by common Z-crystals and is completely ruined by paralysis hax user will pay by being haxed.
Psychic typing is pretty bad in offense, with the exception of Tapu Lele who gets boost from terrain and Metagross which has way more sophisticated stats than Jirachi in terms of offense.



Dark typing checks aforementioned Psychic types, Aegislash, and shitload of other threats. It can use Sludge Bomb to punish fairies, Focus Blast which never hits to check Fighting type or Kyu-B, and break stalls with Nasty Plot.
From its offensive stat, it can make 90328 times better usage of z-crystal than Jirachi.
In other words, it has usage outsides using Hypnosis.


Again, Jirachi is USELESS outsides playing hax. That is what makes it unhealthy.
 
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I'm pleasantly surprised, I didn't consider Mega Salamence at all and think it'd make a good addition to the metagame. Broken? Not with KyuB, Tapu Koko, Mimikyu and Gyarados(?) running around. Basically many top used Pokémon can stand up to the thing so I doubt it'd go out of control
Eh... Gonna have to disagree with giving Megamence a chance.
It throws off physical hits like nothing, can run both physical and special sets, and would pretty much beat most of the meta.

252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 88 HP / 80 Def Mega Gyarados: 204-241 (57.7 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 260-308 (78.3 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

MGyara loses to Mega Mence, unless its running some niche Ice Fang. (Gyara is still outspeeded by megamence after a DD)

252+ Atk Mega Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 468-552 (103 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
While Megamence loses to Scarf Kyub, it beats all other sets.

252+ Atk Mega Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 426-504 (118.3 - 140%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Beats Zard X, and obviously Zard Y

Those are just physical sets, and it beats like every non-sturdy mon besides like, Scarf Porygon.

With the ability for both extremely powerful Physical, Special, and mixed sets it can create wayy to many 50-50's to beat wayy too much of the meta. Literally bringing Chansey along with a Sturdy mon can create such a well rounded team that 50-50's screw everything.

ALSO BAN FUCKING RAICHI

its literally what I use when I'm tired
 
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