Serious 2017 European Elections

So after doing some research for school, I've become really interested in European elections, primarily the French, Dutch, and German ones, and I thought this would be a good place to start a conversation about this stuff. Being an American, I'm not really taught about this kind of thing unless I take classes about it, but I find European political processes quite interesting, and knowing that there are many Europeans on Smogon (and probably at least a few that are interested in talking politics) I would like to spark a discussion.

On the French election in particular, I've found in my research that it could have a profound effect on the future of the EU, and the world in general, and as it is a decently close race between François Fillon, Emmanuel Macron, and Marine le Pen, as well as the other candidates (damn Europeans have a lot of them) I'd like to see who French natives on Smogon generally lean towards.

However this is not only about the French election. Feel free to discuss the aftermath of the Dutch election, the current German election, the debate on a second Scottish independence referendum, or any other European elections really.

I don't have any articles or websites to link here, but to Europeans, I, and probably many other Americans or Asians or Africans, do want to hear your point of view on your elections this year, so feel free to use this thread to discuss!
 
The french politic divide was mainly conservative/progressive ( small differences economicly but a lot in social life ) , the left/right divide was between LR ( 'Les republicains', the right one) and Ps ('Parti socialiste' , the left one ) , the two main politic organization , both defend UE and some regulation of free market. In this election the new Divide is more Globalist/sovereigntist like american one .
The main organizations LR and PS represented by Francois Fillon and Benoit Hamon are going to both not be qualified for the 2nd turn of the election ( French election works in 2 turns because there are 11 candidates ) . It's the first time for like 60 years that both main politic organisations will not be qualified.
The Two favorites of the french election are Marine Le pen who represents 'Front National' who want to quit the UE and get back the original money of France 'Le Franc' , protect the borders economicly but also physicly. The second one is Emmanuel Macron who is Globalist and defend a strong UE.
 
However this is not only about the French election. Feel free to discuss the aftermath of the Dutch election, the current German election, the debate on a second Scottish independence referendum, or any other European elections really.
I didn't realise until the second Scottish referendum told me that a generation only lasts three years! :o who would've guessed?
Nicola Sturgeon herself said that the first Referendum was was a "once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland". I didn't realise the average life expectancy for a Scot was this low. I get there was a pretty big change (Brexit) but it's been less than three years and a second one is already being called for.
 
(If it's not OK to bump this then I'm sorry)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39628713 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39629603

Short story: Theresa May has announced her intention to seek a "snap" election on 8th June. It's highly likely that this will go through, and we will be seeing this election, despite the fact that Downing Street have always denied a pre-2020 vote. I've yet to come to a solid opinion regarding the matter (I do however think that now isn't the ideal time), but I find it interesting that May has said she will not be taking part in TV debates, which strikes me as a bit odd. I mean she's probably winning anyway but still.

I'm interested in hearing the opinions of others on this!
 

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
(If it's not OK to bump this then I'm sorry)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39628713 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39629603

Short story: Theresa May has announced her intention to seek a "snap" election on 8th June. It's highly likely that this will go through, and we will be seeing this election, despite the fact that Downing Street have always denied a pre-2020 vote. I've yet to come to a solid opinion regarding the matter (I do however think that now isn't the ideal time), but I find it interesting that May has said she will not be taking part in TV debates, which strikes me as a bit odd. I mean she's probably winning anyway but still.

I'm interested in hearing the opinions of others on this!
Well nobody likes Corbyn so Tories will win by a mile. It will help May prove she has a mandate, she'll probably even cross 50 and avoid a coalition. I wouldn't even be surprised if Lib Dems gain and Labour lose a lot of votes. Corbyn should resign ASAP.
Also the UK voting system is really weird, they don't have a national popular vote, kind of like a district based thing.
 

termi

bike is short for bichael
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
The self-immolation and immiseration of the english continue as the slimy, inhuman Theresa May breaks her promise and the Blairites slither in excitement at the prospect of seeing Corbyn fail, allowing them to soon reclaim power within the party and turning Britain back to the age where you voted for austerity, privatization, and war no matter whether you voted Tory or Labour.

Can't say I'm particularly sorry for the Brits though. They do it to themselves, even as the working and lower middle class finally have a candidate who represents their class interest. But please drift a bit further away from the European mainland, if you will, and stop holding those poor Scots hostage in that backwards country of yours.
 

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
http://www.westmonster.com/corbyn-refuses-to-rule-out-second-eu-referendum/
This is some bullshit. Both with this and another Scottish referendum, it seems like they keep happening until the elites get the result they want. Quite undemocratic if you ask me. Another reason why nobody like comrade corbyn. Would he be willing to have a second general election if he wins the first one? Doubt it...
They do it to themselves, even as the working and lower middle class finally have a candidate who represents their class interest. But please drift a bit further away from the European mainland, if you will, and stop holding those poor Scots hostage in that backwards country of yours.
Which candidate would this be? Must be comrade corbyn if you use the phrase class interest yourself. He doesn't represent the lower class, he represents the champagne socialists. Real working class Brits are the ones who voted for brexit - which is why it won. And nobody is holding the Scots hostage, they very clearly chose to stay when given the option to leave. But I guess keep having referendums till you get the result you want! Isn't that how democracy works?
 

termi

bike is short for bichael
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
http://www.westmonster.com/corbyn-refuses-to-rule-out-second-eu-referendum/
This is some bullshit. Both with this and another Scottish referendum, it seems like they keep happening until the elites get the result they want. Quite undemocratic if you ask me. Another reason why nobody like comrade corbyn. Would he be willing to have a second general election if he wins the first one? Doubt it...
"Corbyn is undemocratic because he wants a second referendum." What kind of backwards-ass logic is that? If the British people have changed their mind on the matter, it is their right to revert the process, and if they still support Brexit, what's there to lose? I'm afraid rejecting a second referendum has nothing to do with respecting the will of the people and has everything to do with being scared that the will of the people will turn against the Tories.

Never mind the fact that "not explicitly rejecting" is not the same thing as "actively vouching for."

Which candidate would this be? Must be comrade corbyn if you use the phrase class interest yourself. He doesn't represent the lower class, he represents the champagne socialists. Real working class Brits are the ones who voted for brexit - which is why it won. And nobody is holding the Scots hostage, they very clearly chose to stay when given the option to leave. But I guess keep having referendums till you get the result you want! Isn't that how democracy works?
Decades of neoliberal ideology may have tricked the majority of the Brits into thinking that the Tories are anything but cowardly serpents that represent nobody but the rich and powerful, but that doesn't mean that the Tories are doing the working class any favours. Austerity and privatization are not to the benefit of the poor. This is very simple.

The Scottish indyref was held before Brexit - mind that most Scots wanted to stay in the EU - and the No voters weren't in such an overwhelming majority that Scottish independence is a closed case. Combine that with the prospect of years and years of Tory hegemony and I see plenty of reasons for the Scots to say farewell to Little Britain.
 

Ereshkigal

Kur Kigal Irkalla !!!
is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Saying that I'm mad at the French election's results would be an understatement.
Anyone willing to welcome an average guy trying to flee a country of hopeless idiots ?
Totally agree with that statement. I don't know why people vote for Macron when his "program" is the direct continuation of the politics Hollande led during this past 5 years. People are stupid enough to be influenced by the media instead of read the programs of the different candidates. While it won't change i think we must forbid media to be involved in the future election because people are sheep and can't forge a proper political opinion.

As for me i think i will abstain in the second round because both candidates doesn't suit to my political opinion.
 
the problem is not that macron is qualified, the problem is that the 4 main candidates are a bunch of demagogue. ( dont tell me that melanchon was not one)
 

termi

bike is short for bichael
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
Those who feel relieved knowing that Macron will most likely nab the presidency - although keep in mind, in the current political climate one should never rule out the far right's chances - fail to understand that Macron is never going to fix France. Although he may not be part of the political establishment in the sense that he doesn't represent the two traditional mainstream parties, his ideology looks to be the exact type of cosmopolitan, vaguely progressive neoliberalism that feeds the dissatisfaction of the country's underbelly. He may be able to stop Le Pen now, but I am convinced that he will be unable to stop Le Pen or whoever during the 2022 elections.

The political climate of Europe and North America is at risk of descending into a perpetual cycle of lesser-evilism in which we continue to vote AGAINST something rather than FOR something. Different flavours of the same milquetoast liberals will face off against the far right, either losing due to a lack of vision or winning and then failing to bring change to the country due to political cowardice and a small mandate in an ever more fragmented political climate, leading to the far right's success further down the line. Mélenchon - and you have to admit, regardless of whether you support him or not - was the only major candidate who brought a different voice to the debate, a voice that expresses both the country's desire for a radical change and the progressive values that have shaped France's history. He represents a new incarnation of the left, a left that positions itself outside of the political establishment like it used to without resorting to the old adagios of the classic marxists. This kind of left has a fighting chance, and by that I mean a chance to actually nip the far right in the bud before it can take over control. They can do what a Macron, a Clinton, or a Blair can't.

It is time to take sides. In the battle against the far right, nationalism, fascism, etc, will you choose the path of political cowardice, the path of least resistance, the path of "the lesser evil"? Or will you take a stand and support real change?
 
'Macron is never going to fix France', that's true. The problem is that Melenchon cant do it sadly . Melenchon is not enough honest , he promessed a lot of thing ( 365 promess ) that are not feasable without a lot of efforts of everyone . Melenchon bet on the hate of the etablishment, the hate of the upper class but also on the hate of free market ( 60% of french ppl vote for candidates that refuse free market and propose an administered economy). Melenchon proposed a wonderful dream and he is the only one ( a little little bit for macron) that make ppl hope that the future can be better but he's sadly TOO GREEDY, he proposed too MUCH CHANGE and all his promess are based on a keynesian boost of economy that need that ppl have to be FAR MORE PRODUCTIVE, but are french able to be enough productive for their dream.
He used the myth of the 'HIDDEN TREASURE' that is controlled by the establishment to make ppl think they can have more without being more productive.Melenchon is a good guy, the society he wants looks wonderful but he's not honest, he use like Marine Le pen ( and like macron a little too ) the simple-mindness of the ppl.

Do ppl really think that we can fight crony capitalism, corporatism and establishment only by a radical change ? Do ppl really think that State controlled society will get rid off the crony capitalism, corporatism and establishment!? Do ppl really forget what happens in the past? Yeah I'm afraid that a lot of so called educated ppl refuse to see the drawbacks of their dreams.
 
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Ereshkigal

Kur Kigal Irkalla !!!
is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
He's pretty much more honest than the 3 other major candidates. Fillon and Le Pen had recently some judicial issues because of financial scheming (PenelopeGate for Fillon and pinch in the European Fund for Le Pen) and I would like to know how Macron have finance his election campaign. Perhaps the economic part of his project is a little too utopian (tho i think it's completely feasible) but a program doesn't stop to economy. Actually he is one of the only candidates to have a true program in ecology and health and also animal right ! There is a good reason why a lot of NGO support his programs. But unfortunately the media tried to demonize him with some brainwashing and false information about him.
 

TMan87

We shall bow to neither master nor god
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
It wasn't as much demonizing Mélenchon (then again I don't watch TV so I wouldn't know) than overexposing Macron.
Interestingly, we saw the "Trump effect" (not an actual name) in action once again : whoever gets the most media exposure is elected.
While he's clearly not as extreme as Trump is (Arceus bless), and while I'm convinced some people voted for him because he seemed the one belonging in the center of the political spectrum the most, i still think his program is lacking any resolve to change things. Not to mention it's made of measures taken here and there in the program of other candidates.
 
I voted for Melenchon in the 1st round and I'm really sad he didn't make it to the second round. I think that he was the only hope for a better distribution of resources in France. Nevertheless, I will vote Macron in second round because his foreign policy is similar to Hollande and mainly against Syrian current regime. So i think i will vote solely based on foreign policy.
 

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