48ths vs percentages for HP

Nix_Hex

Uangaana kasuttortunga!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
If this gets implemented then we had better change sleep clause to reflect carts as well. I wanna see Randomuser69 lose instantly the moment he tries to put two of my mons to sleep.

Trying to simulate cart mechanics is fine, but don't act like it's ok to follow them sometimes and not others. We don't have mandatory timers (stall would be less common if we did), we don't have accurate sleep mechanics, and we don't show things in 48ths. I don't see why the percentages are an issue if we continue to change things for our own benefit anyway.

But like I said, change what you want. Just make sure that we consider all the other modifications we have made that have actual effects on games.
Sleep Mod is an exception to the rule. This has been argued a bajillion times, PLEASE do not use Sleep Mod as justification to not implement 48ths. It's there to prevent a super broken mechanic from being abused, and in cart play, it could be agreed upon by both players; the only times it would violate game mechanics is in a situation where you accidentally click a sleep move while your opponent has a sleeping Pokemon on the bench, or Relic song happens to work. Percentage is a tradition, which is why everybody flipped their lids when Cathy randomly changed it out of the blue. Had percentage not been shown on earlier sims, no one would have cared lol. You're right about timers, I see no reason to suddenly implement them. Much like sleep, they are a pain in the butt (honestly, I wouldn't mind implementing them for the very reason of making stall less common, esp. for room tours) so I agree with you there.

I usually don't use the word "opinion" because it is one of the most improperly used words in the English language, but going all-or-nothing really does come down to your opinion, and is completely arbitrary. My (and others') opinion is that we eliminate what does need to be eliminated, and keep that which is worth keeping.
 

Zarel

Not a Yuyuko fan
is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Programmeris a Pokemon Researcheris an Administrator
Creator of PS
Percentage is a tradition, which is why everybody flipped their lids when Cathy randomly changed it out of the blue. Had percentage not been shown on earlier sims, no one would have cared lol.
Technically, I was the one who randomly changed it out of the blue. Cathy brought it up and I figured I'd change it, since I could easily change it back if people complained about it.

What I didn't expect was how many people did not want to change it back and were very angry about the idea of changing it back. It was ugly. Friendships were irreversibly lost that day (well, I assume, I guess I don't actually know if that actually happened).
 
Last edited:
I actually agree that the opponent's health should be displayed in 48ths, and that percentages based off of those are fine, though they should be more accurate in that case (3 decimal places is always enough for 48ths) and displayed along with the fractions for clarity.

Why would we ever make our own HP percentages anything less than accurate, though? We know our own current and max HP, so we can do that math freely without pixels. The sim should always do that part accurately because it's purely a convenience for the player. If anything, we should be adding decimal points for the player's own mons specifically so stuff like SR won't trip someone up.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
i was testing w/ memoric yesterday and his volcarona died to hail from 8% which reminded me to bump this thread. anything gonna happen here?

edit: honestly i dont even understand 8% sand. even with percents it should only be 7% sand, yet 8% sand is a real thing that happens.
 
Last edited:

Zarel

Not a Yuyuko fan
is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Programmeris a Pokemon Researcheris an Administrator
Creator of PS
Why would we ever make our own HP percentages anything less than accurate, though? We know our own current and max HP, so we can do that math freely without pixels. The sim should always do that part accurately because it's purely a convenience for the player. If anything, we should be adding decimal points for the player's own mons specifically so stuff like SR won't trip someone up.
We already do this.

i was testing w/ memoric yesterday and his volcarona died to hail from 8% which reminded me to bump this thread. anything gonna happen here?

edit: honestly i dont even understand 8% sand. even with percents it should only be 7% sand, yet 8% sand is a real thing that happens.
>no replay

>>>>>>>>>no replay

damn it they'll give pretty much anyone five badges apparently
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
>no replay

>>>>>>>>>no replay

damn it they'll give pretty much anyone five badges apparently
i was testing a team for a tournament on my main username i wasnt about to save a replay of it. thinking back i could have done the instant replay and giphy'd it but it didn't cross my mind at the time unfortunately.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
We already do this.


>no replay

>>>>>>>>>no replay

damn it they'll give pretty much anyone five badges apparently
Got it! thanks to DragonWhale 's brilliant idea

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-375506671

if that doesnt work heres a gif of what i saw



edit: volcarona's HP after the endeavor is 19/311 which is just under 6.25%. The problem, obviously, duh, is that somehow it displays as 8% instead. The 8% sand is a well known phenomenon among tour players, I don't know why it happens though. In our actual battle I didn't bring volc down to 19 HP in one hit.
 

Zarel

Not a Yuyuko fan
is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Programmeris a Pokemon Researcheris an Administrator
Creator of PS
i was testing a team for a tournament on my main username i wasnt about to save a replay of it. thinking back i could have done the instant replay and giphy'd it but it didn't cross my mind at the time unfortunately.
There's a "Download replay" button, just sayin'...
 
What about showing both the percentage and the pixels left, but having the percentage represent the amount of pixels left rather the exact HP left?

For example if some Pokemon has an HP bar with 44/48 pixels left, the percentage number could display as something like 89.6%-91.7%. So you're not really giving more information than in cartridge (other than the fact that someone else is counting the pixels for you).
 
if some Pokemon has an HP bar with 44/48 pixels left, the percentage number could display as something like 89.6%-91.7%
That's the plan, and I think it would be a good idea.

It could also be any other number that's divisible by 16, instead of "48". I'm more concerned about the fact that cartridge gives this "will live SR damage" information while we don't, than about the actual number (and thus accuracy) used here.

Marty mentioned that gen7 hp bars look like they have a lot more pixels, so maybe we'll want to hold off on this.
 
Last edited:

Texas Cloverleaf

This user has a custom title
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
You do realize that that is the exact thing that caused an unholy shit storm the last time someone tried to change from percents to pixels. The UI showed the damage range and people rioted in outrage.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
That's the plan, and I think it would be a good idea.

It could also be any other number that's divisible by 16, instead of "48". I'm more concerned about the fact that cartridge gives this "will live SR damage" information while we don't, than about the actual number (and thus accuracy) used here.

Marty mentioned that gen7 hp bars look like they have a lot more pixels, so maybe we'll want to hold off on this.
its gotta be 48, first number divisible by both 16 and 6 (2 layers of spikes = 1/6). Besides which if we were gonna move to 48ths to be cart-friendly, why would we then change it for some reason? If next gen has more pixels on the HP bars, so be it, we can deal with it then. That's six months from now so I don't see why we should wait till then to do this now.

I think the percentage range is ugly and i'd rather just do a rounded up max%, but you know, its an option if people want it.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

This user has a custom title
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Because the vast majority of people who are affected by this come from Showdown and thus have no idea this thread exists, let alone having an account to begin with.

The outrage the last time this happened was significant from forum users, but cataclysmic from the PS user base.

I was a PS mod at the time, I have a very clear notion of what the fallout from this will be.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
remember when ppl got mega heated because we changed team preview to show items. levels. and genders?

people dont like change, but after a week, it wont matter, as long as its done in a non confusing way (ie x/48 or rounded up max%s and not wack ass ranges)
 

Aberforth

is a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Ubers Leader
There are people who really dont care and will play regardless of which one is done (ie: myself). This is not a binary system, I'd say a good chunk of people who aren't posting who are aware of this thread simply dont care either way.
 

Isa

I've never felt better in my life
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
i am opposed because i am willing to make the step away from cartridge mechanics in order to get measurements that i feel comfortable and have a familiarity with

i dont think it'd be an issue if we had never used percentages in the past and always followed cart, and like stratos said i think it'd be something that people would accept over time, but to think that it'd blow over in a week is not realistic. i could easily see tournament players start playing on PO again (or old PS servers) just to get percentages back
 

Isa

I've never felt better in my life
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
by the way if you want more accurate measurements of where the public stands on the issue than a PR thread, post a poll
 
Last edited:

Texas Cloverleaf

This user has a custom title
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
remember when ppl got mega heated because we changed team preview to show items. levels. and genders?

people dont like change, but after a week, it wont matter, as long as its done in a non confusing way (ie x/48 or rounded up max%s and not wack ass ranges)
Not even close to comparable outrage, the shift to pixels from percentages was absurd in the strength of the reaction and...

i could easily see tournament players start playing on PO again (or old PS servers) just to get percentages back
...this was exactly what happened. People valued HP percentages so highly that they went to other simulators to fight because they considered that extra accuracy that they were accustomed to to be of paramount importance.

I recall of several prominent users who used that as an impetus to push for returning to PO (using old gen bugs among others as extra support) and took many months to return. While that's not a likely scenario to repeat itself considering PS and POs relative market positions these days, this matter is not nearly so small as you are representing it.
 

M Dragon

The north wind
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 17 Championis a defending World Cup of Pokemon Championis a Past SPL Champion
World Defender
Maybe the problem is how % are calced? How did it display 8% when it died to hail?
No, the problem is not 48ths vs percentages, the problem is that percentages should be calced based on the HP the opp mon has left.

Practically no PS player wants 48ths
Nobody wants to battle in a sim that says that the opp pokemon has 89.6%-91.7% left, the difference could be huge when calcing XHKOs.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top