OU Absol

I think SD Absol should look like this:

-Swords Dance
-Sucker Punch
-Night Slash/Knock Off
-Play Rough/Baton Pass

The first set has great coverage and is a good sweeper, the second set can still sweep pretty well since often Dark STAB is all that's needed, and it has the option of passing its boosts to a teammate to give them a chance to sweep if it can't do so. Running Fire Blast on SD is meh, since that's more for All-Out Attacker, and Superpower is counterproductive and only hits opposing Darks anyway.
 
I agree that until Knock Off is compatible with Play Rough. Night Slash and Play Rough may be the best sweeping set.

I honestly think Superpower and Fire Blast are better suited to the all-out attacker set.

Also, a set running Fire Blast, Ice Beam, and Knock Off would make a great wallbreaker set that can bounce back hazards from Landorus-T, Gliscor, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn. Items like leftovers can be knocked off on switches too. Personally, the late game cleaning set is the one I appreciate the most.
 

Tokyo Tom

Somewhere between psychotic and iconic
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I think SD Absol should look like this:
-Swords Dance
-Sucker Punch
-Night Slash/Knock Off
-Play Rough/Baton Pass
Swamp Link, you could give this dude some credit v

That in mind, I would think that the moveset should look like this:
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Night Slash / Knock Off
move 4: Play Rough / Baton Pass

Anyway, so my post has some significance, I don't think an offensive CM + 3 attacks set is out of the question.

Absol @ Absolite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast / Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam

Absol is able to pull off an fast boosting set for a few reasons - the main one imo is the "immunity" to Thunder Wave from sources such as Ferrothorn or Thundurus-I, which are OHKOed by Fire Blast and Ice Beam respectively (Thundurus requires either Rocks or one CM boost). An added bonus is the resistance to priority like Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch, and Absol can OHKO standard 32 HP Bisharp with Fire Blast (requires Rocks to OHKO 136 HP Bisharp, which is probably the absolute bulkiest it should go) and KO 252/4 Aeg with a bit of prior damage (+1 Dark Pulse does upwards of 78%), which isn't too hard to manage since Aeg is used to take various hits throughout the game. Thunderbolt is listed to KO 252/4 Azumarill after SR and a layer of Spikes, but honestly with the recent surge of AV Azu it's not the best option. It does hit Mega Gyara though, if you're into that.
 
Calm mind set sounds really fun, but I think that Absol would dearly miss its awesome priority, as well as its answers to dark/fighting types (Enter Conkeldurr, who would wall your calm mind set and OHKO with the mach punch). Definitely worth a shot though.
 
You should mention Psycho Cut in OO or Moves of the All-Out Attacker as an option if you don't have Play Rough to hit Fighting-types. It also hits Mega Venusaur super effectively, although it's really damn weak to the point that it doesn't matter.

Checks and Counters can be expanded a lot, though. The aforementioned Mega Venusaur, Landorus-T, Conkeldurr with Mach Punch, Togekiss, Clefable, Bisharp, Azumarill, Gyarados, Heatran, Scizor (Choice Band Bullet Punch has a good chance to OHKO), and just anything that is bulky enough to tank a hit, since pretty much every neutral STAB attack will 2HKO Absol, all serve pretty well. Basically, if Mega Absol can't OHKO it, and it can't OHKO a lot of things, then it can at least check it.
 
I just wanted to share an interesting set I've been utilizing well with M-Absol. Feel free to add it to the opening if the demand is high enough. Pursuit can be used to trap certain foes, but my team has no problem with the Lati twins, or any ghosts/psychics. I use it more as an anti-hazard lure that gains momentum with knock off.

Absol @ Absolite
Nature: Naïve
EVs: 160 Atk, 96 SpAtk, 252Spe
Ability: Justified/Magic Bounce

- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam

I've been thinking about a set like this for a while, and finally had a chance to try it out on showdown. It's doing surprisingly well, and I may even make it my main set instead of the Swords Dance Absol. Here's what it does:

- bounces back hazards
- OHKOs or 2HKOs nearly every hazard setter in OU
- capitalizes on predicted switches with knock off
- 2HKOs a fair portion of the OU meta on the switch in
- functions as a deceptive lure for Landorus-T, Ferrothorn, Dragonite, Salamence and Gliscor, as well as many others

This set is all about forcing switches. It's best to m-evolve early either by revenge killing with Sucker Punch or killing a weakened pokemon with Knock Off. Aftewards, Knock Off can be used on the switch and followed with the appropriate coverage move. The 96 Sp Atk EVs are there to ensure a OHKO on Gliscor, Garchomp, and Landorus-T with Ice Beam. 252 Spe is used to outrun Garchomp, Talonflame, and M-Pinsir to hit them with Ice Beam/Sucker Punch after rocks.

Here are examples of some plays I've made in recent matches:

Opponent switches in M-Pinsir expecting knock off. I use fire blast, and proceed to KO with Sucker Punch. Afterwards, his last two pokemon were worn down, and KOed with Knock Off. Switch in on Ferrothorn to bounce back Leech Seed/Stealth Rock and OHKO with Fireblast (82% chance to OHKO). It can also be used to revenge kill Bisharp, as Absol can take a Sucker Punch and OHKO with Fire Blast. Knock Off is surprisingly powerful on most defensive pokemon, and gets rid of leftovers.

You guys can try out this anti-hazard set, and let me know if you've had as much success as I have. It's the best feeling in the world when you lead with Absol, the opponent leads with Landorus-T, then you OHKO it with Ice Beam, haha.
 
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This may be me being nitpicky. But one advantage Absol has is being able to handle a majority of his counters. For example, Landorus-T, Gliscor, and Gyarados can be KOed if he's running Ice Beam or Thunderbolt even without SpA investment.

One thing that makes him underrated is his great special movepool, and usable special attack. A flamethrower, thunderbolt, or ice beam that's 4X effective will almost always KO the appropriate target. So should they really be included in a "checks and counters" list?

I do agree that in most cases, they do counter him though.
 
I wrote up the skeleton for this for the dex. It's right here. It's pretty close to what you have with a few additions. You can make a few minor changes if you want, but if you just copy that into the analysis, then you'll have it written up, and I don't think there's much point in wasting time on another write-up when there's already a decent one.

If you do that, then

Stamp.gif


QC 2/3
 
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Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
I'm slightly confused to as to why thunderbolt isnt lauded at all on Absol's all out attacker. Fire blast is nice to hit Ferrothorn, AEgislash, and Skarmory ill admit however FErrothorn gets nailed with Superpower if it is used and doesnt evne take Knock Off that well so it isnt as if it hard walls you. Aegislash again doesnt take knock off well at all (it's an OHKO p sure) and yo ucan avoid king's shield by using a relatively safe sucker punch. Skarmory gets killes by tbolt just the same. However, Thunderbolt prevents Azumarill from wall the shit out of you, especially if knock off/superpower is used. Bisharp is also a target of Fire Blast's but Superpower destroys Bisharp.

I think tbolt rivals Fire blast in usefulness on the mixed attacker if running Knock Off / Superpower
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
ScraftyIsTheBest

Still working on this? It received a check some time ago, I'd love to see this written up.

Some other comments are Ice Beam in OO mentions Dragons but its most useful target is Gliscor/Lando as they are good at dealing with physically offensive Absol so mention that. Fairies needed to be added to C&C and ways to deal with them in team options would be nice. Also more examples of things to set up on with SD absol would be good too.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
nope that 2nd check was given before the policy update so youre free to write it.
 

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
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Oh ScraftyIsTheBest when you're writing this, also mention that Mega Absol puts a TON of pressure on Deoxys-S and is one of the best Pokemon to lead against both Speed and Defense formes, since you can check Deoxys-S with Sucker Punch and it can't get a free pass by using Superpower, while Deoxys-D goes down to Knock Off and risks its switch-in losing its item.

Ice Beam should also be getting a bigger mention because, at the moment, Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Gliscor are popular threats that can otherwise wall it.
 
Ice Beam is fantastic on the wallbreaking All-Out Attacking Absol, but isn't necessary on the Swords Dance Set. + 2 Knock Off OHKOs Garchomp and 2HKOs both Gliscor and Landorus-T even after intimidate.
 

Jukain

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Forgot to post, but I talked with Dice and a couple other guys a few days ago, and we decided that this should be the moveset:

move 1: Sucker Punch
move 2: Knock Off
move 3: Fire Blast / Ice Beam
move 4: Superpower / Pursuit

Sucker Punch is obviously mandatory. Despite losing the coverage in Play Rough, Knock Off is really too good to give up...you miss so much with the lack of a reliable, strong STAB, and Knock Off provides just that, plus its item removal effect making it just an all-around awesome move. You need a special move from there to bypass physical walls that get in your way. Fire Blast bypasses Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, and Skarmory, all of which otherwise wall Absol and can do pretty much whatever they want in its face. Ice Beam hits Landorus-T, Garchomp, Gliscor, and Landorus, which can otherwise handle Absol pretty decently. The last slot is basically coverage vs Tyranitar and a stronger hit on Heatran against Pursuit trapping capabilities (for Latis mainly as well as kinda Aegislash) which is obviously good.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
tbolt needs to be somewhere. It hits skarm, azumarill and keldeo pretty hard while superpower + knock off still maims ferro.
 
tbolt needs to be somewhere. It hits skarm, azumarill and keldeo pretty hard while superpower + knock off still maims ferro.
Thunderbolt is so outclassed by Fire Blast/Ice Beam in terms of coverage, that it's not even funny. It doesn't OHKO Azumarill, or Keldeo/Skarmory. Fire Blast hits Skarmory harder, Superpower hits Keldeo fairly hard, and if you're fighting fairies with Absol, you're probably playing wrong. Fire Blast hits M-Mawile, Scizor, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Bisharp, the list goes on. Ice Beam KOs many variants of Landorus-T, as well as Garchomp, all the 4X weak dragons, and Gliscor.

At best, I would put Thunderbolt in Other Options if Gyarados is especially difficult for the team.

Lastly, I think the Swords Dance set should look like this:

Swords Dance
Sucker Punch
Knock Off
Superpower/Baton Pass/Random Coverage Move.

Knock Off is too good to pass up, even on the swords dance set. 2HKOs even the bulkiest defense tanks in the entire game:

+1 252 Atk Mega Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Landorus-T: 226-267 (59.1 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 217-256 (61.2 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 201-237 (60.1 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Mega Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 231-273 (57.1 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The idea with Absol is to Swords Dance on a predicted switch. Usually a Latios/Latias/Ghost trying to avoid Sucker Punch. Go for Swords Dance, and boom; 1-2 free kills. Sometimes even an entire team swept. I've been using M-Absol as a sweeper on my HO Team with the aforementioned set to great affect (1800s Rating, top 100 on Ladder).

Superpower is underrated even with the attack drop since it OHKOs Bisharp, Heatran, Ferrothorn (becoming more common on the high ladder), Keldeo, and many others at +2. I would advocate it being slashed before Baton Pass.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
What kind of argument is that. how is going from being walled by one of the most powerful pokes in the meta to 2hkoing it wrong ?_?. Thunderbolt is better for hitting skarm since it doesn't miss. Keldeo is a pretty important target.

Look at the 1760 stats. keldeo and azumarill are important metagame definers and absol loses to them without tbolt. also how the hell are you listing bisharp as a fire blast pro when you're running superpower.

THANK YOU AG FOR THE EDITS ♥_♥
 
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I was mentioning Fire Blast as a pro for Bisharp if you aren't running Superpower of course. I honestly just believe Ice Beam and Fire Blast have too many merits to consider Thunderbolt viable.

It depends on what the team has issues with, which is why I said it should still be mentioned in other options. I just don't think it deserves a main slash since the other moves hit more targets. Landorus-T is a very common switch-in to Absol, as is Gliscor for the few people who still run it. Absol can be used as an anti-lead to Landorus-T to KO it and catch it off guard.

Superpower 2HKOs Keldeo after rocks just like Thunderbolt does (But the attack drops can hurt). The main merit I see to running T-bolt is Azumarill and Gyarados.

If you can make an argument as to why Thunderbolt is more viable than Fire Blast or Ice Beam, I will listen. But I don't believe that's the case. If you're not saying it's more viable, than I merely misunderstood your post. My apologies.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
Ok so, I've been kinda thinking about it, and Im pretty sure absol lacking Superpower is a dumb idea. Being unable to deal with Tyranitar and Terrakion, being walled by Keldeo / Bisharp if lacking fire blast or tbolt, etc is really lame, lol. I dont think Pursuit is slashworthy, two special moves is immediately more appealing to me.

Onto the special move discussion. I'm using recent 1760 stats for this analysis as I think they are a pretty fair reflection of XY OU, though not perfect, all the mons im listing here are relevant.

| 7 | Garchomp | 15.02619% | 551693 | 11.618% | 423544 | 11.285% |
| 8 | Keldeo | 14.63515% | 186434 | 3.926% | 145749 | 3.883% |
| 9 | Scizor | 13.60336% | 571924 | 12.044% | 451770 | 12.037% |
| 10 | Azumarill | 13.43373% | 476015 | 10.024% | 382728 | 10.198% |
| 11 | Landorus-Therian | 13.22961% | 244170 | 5.142% | 212567 | 5.664% |
| 13 | Skarmory | 12.22726% | 341637 | 7.195% | 292910 | 7.805% |
| 19 | Ferrothorn | 10.54446% | 529648 | 11.154% | 462153 | 12.314% |

| 20 | Dragonite | 9.94543% | 520349 | 10.958% | 390916 | 10.416% |
| 23 | Mawile | 9.00775% | 264396 | 5.568% | 205309 | 5.470% |
| 25 | Gyarados | 6.63586% | 315099 | 6.636% | 250466 | 6.674% |
| 27 | Landorus | 7.92067% | 114177 | 2.404% | 88747 | 2.365% |
| 31 | Gliscor | 7.44789% | 501975 | 10.571% | 392315 | 10.453% |
| 32 | Mandibuzz | 7.34176% | 246720 | 5.196% | 198064 | 5.277% |
| 53 | Hippowdon | 3.16388% | 82344 | 1.734% | 71862 | 1.915% |

So I hope this this data is aesthetically pleasing. Essentially this is the compilation of relevant targets for each move, color coded and then with some formatting to highlight what each move can do. The colours should be obvious, but the formatting not so.

So, essentially a BOLD target is something that Absol previously could not 2HKO which it now CAN thanks to its coverage move. Of course the value of each 2HKO is not totally plain, but it helps in visualization.

Ice Beam - Ice Beam is clearly quite useful, and the visualization here doesnt perfectly reflect what it does. Not only does it make Absol harder to wall for defensive staples LandoT and Gliscor but it outright OHKOs them so they cant evne check. Past that, it gets the 2HKO on Dragonite THROUGH multiscale, so you can beat it if it switches in and SR isnt up. Even though Garchomp is KO'd by Knock Off -> Sucker Punch, and Lando 2HKO'D by double Knock Off, getting that OHKO makes life a lot easier for Absol. Mandi and Hippo are there, but theyre italicized as it doesnt even get the 2HKO on either after SR, so its really only there to deal with weakened ones, though admittedly, MAndi and Hippo cant do all that much back and will lose. Ice Beam has 7 total targets, which have an average lower usage than the other 2 moves, 3 of which it needs Ice Beam to beat though only against phys def hippo, and 4 of which it needs Ice Beam if it lacks T-bolt. Certainly a solid move.

Fire Blast - Being walled by Mega Scizor and Skarmory is bad, really bad, lol. Being unable to deal with Mawile or Ferrothorn on short notice is also really bad! However, T-bolt can take care of Skarm in a better manner thanks to Accuracy. Fire Blast has high value targets, but only 4 total, though 1 of which can be dealt with pretty well with another move. Its target value is higher than Ice Beam overall, however its about on par with Thunderbolt.

Thunderbolt - Immediately appealing is the fact that Absol can get past Azumarill, which it can not do anything to other htan knock its item off without this move. Azumarill is a dominant power, and getting that 2HKO on max HP azu helps. Keldeo is also pretty great, as it can quite comfortably live 2 Superpowers. Getting the 2HKO on skarm with 100% accy is nice too. Gyarados is a strange character as Superpower is better vs. one already evolved, however an unevolved Gyarados can be straight up OHKO'D by tbolt, while thanks to intimidate Gyarados can switch into Knock Off and easily eat them up, and easily eat up superpower by just not evolving. Without Tbolt Absol really cant do much to Gyarados if it remains unevolved. Finally Mandibuzz is beaten with T-bolt, like Ice beam. So, Thunderbollt has 5 total targets, 3 of which Thunderbolt demands, 4 of which if fire blast is not used.

So, in conclusion, factually, all three have 3 exclusive targets* that wall Absol if it fails to take this move. With the order of importance, based on meta knowledge and usage stats Thunderbolt > Fire blast > Ice Beam. In number of targets Ice Beam > Thunderbolt > Fire Blast. Factoring the OHKOs that Ice Beam gets, i'd say general utility is Ice Beam > Thunderbolt = Fire Blast. Based on this I'd like to see Thunderbolt in moves or a slash.


*must be phys def hippo
 
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Will anyone be writing this up? Most of the OU analyses are finished, and I would start working on this if no one else is.

I think Swamp Link's analysis is done extremely well, and should be implemented in the final write up.
 

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