OU Amoonguss

Overview
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While Amoonguss may not be one of the first choices for a team, it has several unique qualities that help it stand out. Its great defensive typing gives it useful resistances to Water-, Electric-, Fighting-, Fairy-, and Grass-type attacks, letting it wall a myriad of common and dangerous threats such as Azumarill, Keldeo, and Thundurus. Where Amoonguss truly shines, however, is with its access to Spore, the only 100% accurate sleep-inducing move in the game. Amoonguss is also incredibly difficult to wear down due to its great bulk, defensive typing, awesome ability in Regenerator, access to Giga Drain, and immunity to Toxic. However, Amoonguss has one major flaw: after putting an opposing Pokemon to sleep, it can't do much to stop another Pokemon from setting up on it. It also faces competition from Mega Venusaur, which is much faster, boasts overall higher stats, and has two fewer weaknesses thanks to Thick Fat. However, between Regenerator, Spore, and the fact that Amoonguss does not take up a team's valuable Mega Evolution slot, Amoonguss certainly has value over its fellow Grass / Poison types. Overall, despite its shortcomings, if Amoonguss is played carefully, it can provide invaluable support to nearly any defensive or balance team.

Defensive
########
name: Defensive
move 1: Spore
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Foul Play
move 4: Clear Smog / Sludge Bomb
ability: Regenerator
item: Black Sludge
evs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
nature: Bold

Moves
========
Spore is one of the main reasons to use Amoonguss. Giga Drain is boosted by STAB and heals Amoonguss, adding to its already great bulk and longevity. Hidden Power Fire is useful for hitting Scizor and Grass-types, particularly Ferrothorn, as they are immune to Spore, , while Foul Play prevents Amoonguss from being setup fodder for physical attackers. Clear Smog lets Amoonguss remove Calm Mind boosts from Pokemon such as Suicune and stop them from setting up on it, however, some Pokemon such as Talonflame can still use it as setup bait. In addition, Steel-type sweepers such as Lucario and Scizor are not affected by Clear Smog, so they have free reign to set up on Amoonguss if it has already put something else on the opposing team to sleep. Alternatively, Sludge Bomb can be used, as it is Amoonguss's strongest and most reliable STAB move and has a 30% chance to poison the foe.

Set Details
========
The given EV spread lets Amoonguss take on Belly Drum Azumarill, as well as Keldeo and Thundurus. Black Sludge is the preferred item, as it provides passive healing. Alternatively, Leftovers can be used over Black Sludge, but Black Sludge is more useful because it cripples Trick users and deters them from using Trick on Amoonguss at all.

Usage Tips
========
As it is a pivot, Amoonguss will be switching in very often throughout the match. It is very easy to switch in thanks to its resistances, Regenerator, and its ability to wall common Pokemon. Spore is a very powerful tool and should not be used thoughtlessly. Amoonguss will most often only be able to put one foe to sleep in the entire match, so take note of which Pokemon you want to put to sleep before mindlessly clicking Spore. In addition, the mere threat of Spore is also very useful. Predicting which Pokemon the opponent will use as sleep fodder and capitalizing on it not only gains momentum but also allows you to possibly put a more dangerous Pokemon on the opponent's team to sleep later in the battle. However, Amoonguss can be helpless against certain Pokemon after it has already put something else to sleep. Successfully using Spore to its greatest potential requires prediction and clever planning. To prevent Amoonguss from being setup bait after Spore has been used, you can utilize double switches to deter the opposing team from setting up on it.

Team Options
========
Amoonguss isn't too support-reliant, as it is usually the one doing the supporting. It can be paired with other Regenerator users such as Slowbro to form a solid defensive core that can be very difficult to break through. Rotom-W and Heatran are good partners, as they have fantastic synergy with Amoonguss and can handle Talonflame rather well. Clefable is a nice teammate to handle Greninja and Latios. Good switch-ins to Mega Charizard Y, such as Chansey, Latios, and Dragonite, are appreciated. Other standard defensive Pokemon such as Quagsire, Gliscor, and Skarmory fit well on many of the same teams as Amoonguss does.

Other Options
########
Synthesis can be used to give Amoonguss even more recovery, though it is redundant with Regenerator, and the moveslot is better used on one of Amoonguss's main options. Stun Spore lets Amoonguss cripple Pokemon after it has already put something to sleep, but it isn't really worth the moveslot. Energy Ball can be used as it has 15 more Base Power than Giga Drain, though Amoonguss generally appreciates the recovery of Giga Drain too much to give it up.

Checks & Counters
########

**Setup Sweepers**: After it has put something to sleep, Amoonguss is setup fodder for a wide variety of Pokemon, especially ones that threaten it initially or are immune to Clear Smog. Scizor can set up on Amoonguss if it lacks Hidden Power Fire, while Dragonite and Mega Tyranitar can set up on Amoonguss regardless of its moves. Fire-types such as Talonflame, Mega Charizard X, and Volcarona threaten Amoonguss with their powerful STAB moves and can also set up on it.

**Strong Fire-, Flying-, Ice-, and Psychic-types**: Amoonguss might be very bulky, but like most Pokemon, it does not take super effective STAB moves very well. Mega Medicham, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, Latios, Heatran, and Kyurem-B can all dent Amoonguss with their respective STAB attacks. Similarly, Thundurus with Psychic or Hidden Power Flying can break through Amoonguss.

**Steel-types**: Amoonguss has problems beating certain Steel-types. As a Grass / Steel type, Ferrothorn is immune to Spore, Clear Smog, and Sludge Bomb, takes very little damage from Giga Drain, and is at best 3HKOed by uninvested Hidden Power Fire. Bisharp fears Spore and Hidden Power Fire, but it can do rather well against Amoonguss one-on-one. Skarmory fears none of Amoonguss's attacks, including Hidden Power Fire, but it must be cautious of Spore.

**Grass-types**: In general, opposing Grass-type Pokemon are a problem for Amoonguss, as they are immune to Spore and Amoonguss is not powerful enough to break through very many them, even with super effective attacks. Mega Venusaur in particular is neutral to Sludge Bomb and Hidden Power Fire.

**Clerics**: Heal Bell and Aromatherapy users are able to heal opposing teams of status spread by Amoonguss in a single turn. Chansey in particular laughs at Amoonguss's attacks and, thanks to Natural Cure, can't be crippled by Spore.
 
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I haven't changed the spread or moves yet since there's still a bit of debate about the best set

Also, I'll update the overview so it sounds less niche because this is really popular now and when I wrote this almost no one even used it

Tagging Dice, Jukain, and Agent Gibbs since iirc they were the ones who were talking about it the most
 
Well, I think the main thing is that Amoonguss really needs a specially defensive emphasis. I want to piggyback off of what Dice said in the index thread and recommend a 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD Calm spread. A bit arbitrary, but it works. This spread is designed to hit the last jump point in SpD and give a little more physical bulk than a full specially defensive spread to better pivot into things like Choice Band Azumarill (Adamant CB Play Rough now has no chance of 2HKOing after Stealth Rock, for example). Even without max SpD, it still pulls off feats such as avoiding the 2HKO from Specs Keldeo's HP Flying, Spooky Plate Aegislash's Shadow Ball, and Life Orb Thundurus's HP Ice (all after Stealth Rock), which is great.

As far as slashes go, this has been talked about in the index thread, but I think Foul Play needs to be a standalone slash since it's so important for Aegislash and friends. HP Fire just seems bad, to be honest. The Set Comments say it's for Grasses, but Mega Venusaur and Breloom are hit way harder by Sludge Bomb (and even Clear Smog, lol), and you can't even guarantee a 3HKO against physically defensive Ferrothorn if it spams Protect for Leftovers recovery (although it probably still loses 1-on-1 anyway). Being able to hit stuff like Scizor and Mega Mawile is neat, but without a lot of Def investment, I'd rather not bring Amoonguss into those guys if I can help it. Sludge Bomb is good, but I honestly think it should be slashed with Clear Smog instead of Foul Play. Stun Spore is an alright move, maybe worthy of a Moves mention, but I don't think it's good enough for a main slash. As for Clear Smog vs Sludge Bomb, I don't really care about that either way. I personally prefer Clear Smog since it's kinda cool against stuff like Calm Mind Keldeo and Manaphy (between Clear Smog Amoonguss and Heal Bell Chansey, stall teams can stall Manaphy out of PP, in case they aren't running Unaware Clefable or something), but both are fine.
 
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alexwolf

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Why would i use Amoonguss to deal with Thundurus when outside of putting it to sleep you can't do anything significant back, while it can easily 2hko with +2 HP Ice / Flying, or 3HKO with LO HP Ice. Admiteddly checking Aegislash is great, but not being able to check BD Azumarill, Terrakion, and Mega Gyarados sucks big time. I don't really have a preference over physically or specially defensive, just saying that from my experience Amoonguss is not a good Thundurus check and the physical bulk is really helpful if you already have something to deal with Aegislash. Finally, i don't like how Amoonguss has two sporing moves, when both of them are blocked by Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur, and Manidbuzz, and Thundurus and Mega Manectric in the case of Stun Spore, which can both easily switch into Amoonguss and 2HKO/3HKO back. Clear Smog is honestly way better, allowing you to check NP Thundurus, CM Clefable, CM Keldeo, and other dangerous boosters such as Mega Tyranitar and Mega Gyarados, if Sleep Clause has already been activated.
 
Do you mean as two separate sets? I don't think they really play different enough to warrant two separate sets, but I'd be fine with whatever.

I'm going to rewrite some of this in a few days to reflect Amoonguss's impact on the current metagame a bit more as well.
 

alexwolf

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I think that the two sets have enough different moves and spreads to be separated:

Specially Defensive
########
name: Pivot
move 1: Spore
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Foul Play
move 4: Clear Smog / Sludge Bomb
ability: Regenerator
item: Black Sludge
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
nature: Calm

Physically Defensive
########
name: Pivot
move 1: Spore
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Clear Smog
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
ability: Regenerator
item: Black Sludge
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
nature: Bold

Clear Smog is slashed alone on the physically defensive set because it's a must to check Mega Gyarados, Mega Tyranitar, and Belly Drum Azumarill even when Sleep Clause has been activated. On the last slot Hidden Power Fire goes first in order to break Mega Mawile's Sub, a Pokemon that you can check, while also doing respectable damage to Mega Scizor, Bisharp, Ferrothorn, and Aegislash (Sword Forme). Hidden Power Ice deals with Dragonite, Garchomp, Gliscor, and Landorus-T, all Pokemon that Amoonguss can check.

Entirely different last slots and a lot of different Pokemon they are able to check (SpD checks Aegislash, Thundurus, Gengar, and Keldeo much better than the PhD, which can only deal with Keldeo out of those, and can still get overwhelmed if burned, while PhD deals with Terrakion, SubPunch Mega Mawile, Landorus-T, Mega Tyranitar, Mega Gyarados, and BD Azumarill, all Pokemon that SpD cannot check at all) make them play different enough for different sets imo.

And why 40 EVs on Def on the SpD set? Unless they are really important they should be moved to SpD, as Amoonguss needs all the special bulk it can get against Thundurus and Aegislash.
 

Jukain

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Having the jump point is w/e, I will say that you can run 252/32/224 to evade the CB Azu Play Rough 2HKO after SR. Jump point is fine but there's also no reason to sac more SDef than you need to. I would mention that you can run 28 SAtk EVs for +2 SubCM Keld Subs somewhere, though that's not a big deal and really a minor note.

fwiw I'm okay with a physically defensive spread...it doesn't really need a main set but if people are going to go up in arms over it then it's not a big deal. I would mention that you MUST have two Keldeo answers to use that spread, like Slowbro + Amoon. The main purpose is if you're missing solid Azumarill answers on stall and you need the extra Defense to deal with it. It can also help vs certain threats like Exca and w/e. I'd probably slash HP Fire or at least heavy moves mention on that because it can actually handle Scizor and with HP Fire actually hit it, plus it can hit Ferro for some decent damage and such which is definitely nice. Phys def can't handle Aegi or Thund but it can handle stuff like Gyara which is nice.
 
To be honest, although I think SpD is a bit better, I really like both spreads. I've made two separate stall teams in the past month with Amoonguss on them. One was weak to Belly Drum Azumarill and thus had a Def Amoonguss, and the other was weak to Keldeo and thus had a SpD Amoonguss (the two sets helped with other things, but those were the main issues that they patched up). Both sets worked pretty well, so I think both need proper attention.

I do agree that SpD should run enough Def to soak up two Choice Band Play Roughs from Azumarill after Stealth Rock, so you could just stop at 32 EVs. On Def Amoonguss, I personally like running enough SpD to take two LO HP Ices from Thundurus at full health. That way you can try to put it to sleep and go for the Sludge Bomb 3HKO, so it makes for a decent backup check. You need 28 EVs to do this, which isn't a ton. Something to think about.
 
aah this is a thing

i'd be okay with revamping this analysis, but not adding another set as I don't have that much recent experience with Amoonguss in ou. If 2 sets are neccessary, someone else could write up the spdef one and i could just revamp this one. Would that work?
 

Jukain

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ya there should def be another set, 252/136+/120 evades bd azumarill ko from pr or whatever iirc so that should be good. can get another writer for this set if you want, no problem.
 
aah this is a thing

i'd be okay with revamping this analysis, but not adding another set as I don't have that much recent experience with Amoonguss in ou. If 2 sets are neccessary, someone else could write up the spdef one and i could just revamp this one. Would that work?
ya there should def be another set, 252/136+/120 evades bd azumarill ko from pr or whatever iirc so that should be good. can get another writer for this set if you want, no problem.

If Amoong does get an individual analysis set, I can do Spdef Amoonguss if that's ok.
 
252 HP / 136+ Def / 120 SpD should be the only spread.


136 EVs in Def with a positive nature allow to avoid a OHKO from Azumarill's Play Rough at +6.

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Amoonguss: 364-429 (84.2 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery


The SpD EVs suffice to get a 3HKO from LO Thundurus and Specs Keldeo.

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Amoonguss: 174-205 (40.2 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

And after SR : 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Amoonguss: 174-205 (40.2 - 47.4%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
There is only 2,3% chance to 2HKO.

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Amoonguss: 188-222 (43.5 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
 
I am not QC, however, I have used Amoonguss on many of my teams. I would mention Suicune and Hippowdon under the Talonflame checks section of team options. Mega Scizor is another good teammate for its ability to check Lati@s and Mega Gardevior for Amoonguss while Amoonguss handles Keldeo for Scizor.
 

alexwolf

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While Amoonguss may not be one of the first choices for a team, it has several unique qualities that help it stand out.
I would scrap this sentence, as Amoonguss is getting more and more popular and even rose to A- in the viability ranking thread, meaning it's no longer considered a niche or underrated option, it has became pretty standard.
 

Jukain

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i actually wanna discuss possibly making 252/136+/120 the main spread. both azumarill and keldeo are very relevant threats, and to me, it's a shame not to be able to really handle azumarill with a grass/poison defensive pokemon. it still does fine vs keld, as it can just pivot out of icy winds and hp flyings, while the added ability to counter azumarill is invaluable.
 
I agree with Jukain.

The current spread doesn't allow to handle BD Azumarill, the new spread handles BD and CB Azumarill, as well Keldeo and Thundurus.
 

Timbuktu

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Overview
########
While Amoonguss may not be one of the first choices for a team, it has several unique qualities that help it stand out. Its great defensive typing gives it useful resistances to Water-, Electric-, Fighting-, Fairy-, and Grass-type attacks, letting it wall a myriad of common and dangerous threats, such as Azumarill, Keldeo, and Thundurus. Where Amoonguss truly shines, however, is with its access to Spore, the only 100% accurate sleep-inducing move in the game. Amoonguss is also incredibly difficult to wear down due to its great bulk and defensive typing, awesome ability in Regenerator, access to Giga Drain, and immunity to Toxic. However, Amoonguss has one major flaw: after putting an opposing Pokemon to sleep, it can't do much to stop another Pokemon from setting up in its face. It also faces competition from Mega Venusaur, which is much faster, boasts overall higher stats, and has two fewer weaknesses, thanks to Thick Fat. However Despite this, between Regenerator, Spore, and the fact that Amoonguss does not take up a team's valuable Mega Evolution slot, certainly give Amoonguss certainly has value over its fellow Grass / Poison type Unsure if you mean "Grass-types and Poison-types" or "dual Grass-/Poison-types." Insert the former or the latter. Overall, despite its shortcomings, if Amoonguss is played carefully, it can provide invaluable support to nearly any defensive or balanced team.

Defensive
########
name: Defensive
move 1: Spore
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Foul Play
move 4: Clear Smog / Sludge Bomb
ability: Regenerator
item: Black Sludge
evs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
nature: Bold

Moves
========
Spore is the only 100% accurate sleep move in the game and is one of the main reasons to use Amoonguss. Giga Drain is boosted by STAB and heals Amoonguss, adding to its already great bulk and longevity. Hidden Power Fire is useful for hitting Scizor and the Grass-types that are immune to Spore, particularly Ferrothorn, while Foul Play can be used as it prevents Amoonguss from being setup fodder for physical attackers. Clear Smog helps prevent Amoonguss from being setup bait and lets it remove Calm Mind boosts from Pokemon such as Suicune, though some Pokemon such as Talonflame, which can threaten Amoonguss without setting up, can still use it as setup bait. In addition, Steel-type sweepers such as Lucario and Scizor are not affected by the move Clear Smog, so they have free reign to set up on Amoonguss if it has already put something else on the opposing team to sleep. Alternatively, Amoonguss can use Sludge Bomb; it is Amoonguss's strongest reliable STAB move and has a 30% chance to poison.

Set Details
========
The given EV spread lets Amoonguss take on Belly Drum Azumarill as well as Keldeo and Thundurus. Black Sludge is the preferred item, as it provides great passive healing in conjunction with Regenerator. Leftovers can be used over Black Sludge, but Black Sludge is more useful as it cripples Trick users and deters them from using Trick on Amoonguss at all.

Usage Tips
========
As it is a pivot, Amoonguss will be switching in very often throughout the match. It is very easy to switch in, thanks to its resistances, Regenerator, and its ability to wall common Pokemon. Spore is a very powerful tool and should not be used thoughtlessly carelessly. Amoonguss will most often only be able to put one opponent to sleep in the entire match because a sleeping opponent often does not have a chance to wake up, so take note of which Pokemon you want to put to sleep before mindlessly clicking Spore. The mere threat of Spore is also very useful. Predicting which Pokemon the opponent will use as sleep fodder and capitalizing on it not only gains momentum, but it allows you Amoonguss to possibly put a more dangerous Pokemon on the opponent's team to sleep later in the battle. However, Amoonguss can be helpless against certain Pokemon after it has already put something else to sleep. Successfully using Spore to its greatest potential requires prediction and clever planning. To prevent Amoonguss from being setup bait after Spore has been used, you can utilize double switches to deter the opposing team from setting up on it.

Team Options
========
Amoonguss isn't too support reliant reliant on support, as it is usually the one doing the supporting. It can be paired with other Regenerator users, such as Slowbro, to form a solid defensive core that can be very difficult to break through. Rotom-W and Heatran are good partners, as they have fantastic synergy with Amoonguss and beat Talonflame rather well. Clefable is a nice teammate to handle Greninja and Latios. Good switch-ins to Mega Charizard Y, such as Chansey, Latios, and Dragonite, are appriciated. Other standard defensive Pokemon, such as Quagsire, Gliscor, and Skarmory, fit well on some of the same types of teams that Amoonguss does.

Other Options
########
Synthesis can be used to give Amoonguss even more recovery, though it is redundant with Regenerator and the moveslot is better used on filled by one of its main options. Stun Spore lets Amoonguss cripple Pokemon after it has already put something to sleep, but it isn't really worth wasting the moveslot. Energy Ball can be used as it has 15 more Base Power its Base Power is 15 greater than Giga Drain's, though but it is generally the inferior option, as Amoonguss appreciates the recovery of Giga Drain too much to give it up.

Checks & Counters
########

**Setup Sweepers**: After it has put something to sleep, Amoonguss is setup fodder for a wide variety of Pokemon, especially ones that threaten it initially or are immune to Clear Smog. Scizor can set up on Amoonguss if it lacks Hidden Power Fire, while Dragonite and Mega Tyranitar can set up on Amoonguss with Dragon Dance. Fire-types, such as Talonflame, Mega Charizard X, and Volcarona, threaten Amoonguss with their powerful STAB moves, and can also set up on it..

**Strong Fire-, Flying-, Ice-, or and Psychic-types**: Amoonguss might be very bulky, but like most Pokemon, it does not take super effective STAB moves very well. Pokemon such as Mega Medicham, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, Latios, Heatran, and Kyurem-B can all dent Amoonguss with their respective STAB attacks. Similarly, Thundurus with Hidden Power Flying or Psychic can break through Amoonguss.

**Steel-types**: Amoonguss has problems beating certain Steel-types. As a dual Grass-/Steel-type, Ferrothorn is immune to Spore, Clear Smog, and Sludge Bomb, takes very little from Giga Drain, and is only 3HKOed by uninvested Hidden Power Fire at best. Bisharp fears Spore and Hidden Power Fire, but it can do rather well against Amoonguss one on one. Skarmory fears none of Amoonguss's attacks, including Hidden Power Fire, but it too must be cautious of Spore.

**Opposing Grass-types**: In general, opposing Grass-type Pokemon are a problem for Amoonguss, as they are immune to Spore and Amoonguss is not powerful enough to break through very many of them, even with super effective attacks. Mega Venusaur in particular is neutral to Sludge Bomb and Hidden Power Fire.

**Clerics**: Heal Bell and Aromatherapy users are able to heal opposing teams of Amoonguss's status spreading the team members that Amoonguss has spread status to in a single turn. Chansey in particular laughs at Amoonguss's attacks, and thanks to Natural Cure, can't be crippled by Spore.
 

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