[BH] Kyurem-B [QC 2/3] (Written)

Ready for QC!

QC Checks 2/3


Overview
Kyurem-Black holds the title of being the strongest physical Refrigerate user in the entire game thanks to its high attack stat and STAB on Ice-type attacks, which are key in threatening meta-defining Pokemon such as Giratina, Zygarde-Complete, and Mega-Rayquaza. Its typing grants it excellent offensive coverage with only two or three moves, giving it a degree of flexibility some other Pokemon wish they had. Additionally, the typing makes it one of the very few viable STAB users of Refrigerate and, additionally, provides resistance to Water and Electric-type attacks. With its high power and often running priority moves, it performs well at forcing out or defeating set-up sweepers and other fast and frail offensive threats, as many of them struggle to withstand Kyurem's priority attacks. lacking Dazzling, Queenly Majest, or Psychic Terrain support, and can use its good Special Attack to deal with threats who'd wall it otherwise.

Despite its virtues, Kyurem-Black's typing is poor defensively, leaving it vulnerable to a number of common moves such as Core Enforcer, despite having otherwise relatively good bulk. Its primary sets also struggle somewhat with anti-priority users running Dazzling, Queenly Majesty, or having support from Psychic Terrain, as they can avoid Kyurem's primary attacks and force it out before it can rely on its other moves. It also competes with Mega-Rayquaza, Mega-Diancie, Zekrom, and Kyurem-White for its role, though it has the benefit of being bulkier in practice than the former two due to a lack of a 4x weakness. Finally, a weakness to Stealth Rock makes repeated switch-ins difficult without proper team support.



Refrigerate
Kyurem-Black @ Icicle Plate / Safety Goggles / Life Orb
Ability: Refrigerate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naughty / Naive Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed / Frustration
- Boomburst
- Precipice Blades / Bolt Strike / V-create

Moves
Fake Out is one of the primary moves of the set as its high priority and guaranteed flinch allows Kyurem-Black to inflict anywhere from chip to significant damage to threats for nearly free. Combined with Extreme Speed, it is capable of 2HKOing most Ice-weak or frail Pokemon. However, as anti-priority is a relatively common ability this generation, Frustration is an option for allowing Kyurem-Black to deal with them better or to allow it to function better on teams utilizing Psychic Terrain and also provides a STAB move most Imposters cannot utilize due to frequently running default maximum happiness.

Bolt Strike gives amazing coverage in a classic Boltbeam style and notably hits Pokemon such as Primal Kyogre and Mega Gyarados quite hard and puts many defensive Steel-types in 3HKO range. Precipice Blades, on the other hand, 2HKOs common Steel-types such as Solgaleo, and Registeel. V-Create provides more power and has a chance at OHKOing some Steel-types such as Aegislash outright, but has significant drawbacks in its stat drops and is walled by Flash Fire. Should Fur Coat users, such as Giratina and Arceus, be an issue, Boomburst allows Kyurem-Black to bypass most of them. And finally, U-turn can be used as a scouting tool to determine the opponent's reaction to Kyurem-Black and the checks they are using while maintaining momentum by switching in the proper teammate.

Set Details
248 EVs are chosen to allow five switches into Stealth Rock while having negligible impact in Kyurem-Blacks bulk otherwise. An Attack boosting nature is chosen over a speed boosting one as Kyurem-Black naturally outspeeds most of its defensive checks, who often run minimal speed either way, cannot catch up to its offensive checks, and often relies on priority moves. Additionally, +Speed can miss out on important 2HKOs, such as against Gengar-Mega.

Icicle Plate maximizes the power of Ice-typed moves without any drawbacks. Life Orb grants even more power, and does so to coverage moves as well. However, Life Orb limits Kyu-B's time on the field and, combined with chip damage from sources such as entry hazards, the total combined residual damage can make it a very short lived threat. Safety Goggles provide an immunity to Spore, allowing Kyurem-Black a chance to switch in against offensive threats running the move, such as Regigas and some Mega Rayquaza.

Z-moves provide another optiom for Kyurem-Black. Electrium-Z ensures an outright OHKO on Water-types lacking Fur Coat, like Primal Kyogre, and notably Celesteela, who is immune to Precipice Blades and frequently runs Primordial Sea or Flashfire to block V-Create. Groundium-Z, however, ensures a KO on Steel-types such as Solgaleo after Fake Out or Extreme Speed damage, preventing them switching in to safely wall Kyurem-Black repeatedly.

Usage Tips
Due to the low PP of Extreme Speed, scouting the opponent is often required before one can fully commit with Kyurem-Black. Extreme speed should be using sparingly to conserve it for the best situations. With Fake Out, this is easier as Kyurem-Black can force out frail sweepers by merely getting a safe switch into them as the majority cannot take Fake Out + Extreme Speed without taking crippling or lethal damage, even if they run a Focus Sash. Meanwhile, coverage moves are best used to strike targets on the switch-in as they frequently 2HKO. This is particularly important on walls that take just enough to 2HKO and are too slow to use a recovery move to try to stall Kyurem-Black's limited PP pool. This, combined with its difficulty outright sweeping most teams, Kyurem-Black should be focused on picking off priority targets, letting teammates wear down the opposing team, and waiting for an opportunity to set-up safely.

Boomburst allows Kyurem-Black to break through physically defensive checks, notably Fur Caot users such as Giratina and Mega Swampert. Additionally, it gives it a spammable STAB move to use in situations where the opponent carries Baneful Bunker, King's Shield, Spiky Shield, and Rocky Helmet. Additionally, sets running Extreme Speed should be on high alert for anti-priority abilities. Psychic Surge is obvious, though one should remember that Flying-types, both yours and your opponents, are not protected unless they have been grounded. Dazzling and Queenly Majesty only announce themselves when they block a move, so unless the opponent switches into one, its best to try to deduce their ability based on how they play. Many anti-priority users are powerful offensive Pokemon who can strike down or set-up on Kyurem-Black if it gives it a free turn by using a priority attack on it, so throwing Fake Out or Extreme Speed blindly at suspect Pokemon is unwise. Kyurem-Black can attempt to lure in those brave enough to directly switch into its attacks and attempt to inflict heavy damage or outright KO with Frustration and Boomburst, however.


Team Options
Kyurem-Black is vulnerable to all entry hazards, particularly Stealth Rock, so it appreciates the ability to remove them. Solgaleo is a good Rapid Spin teammate as it can also both threats and Imposters, such as Imposter Eviolite Chansey, if Kyurem-Black is not running Ground coverage. Mega Audino or another teammate can also set hazards, which helps secure Fake Out + Extreme Speed KOs and racks up damage on the many switches Kyurem-Black can force. As it can be worn down quite easily, Wish and cleric support, such as from Chansey or Zygarde-Complete, help keep Kyurem-Black healthy and status free. Terrain Support to disrupt opposing Psychic Terrain is also ideal. Misty Terrain in particular not only disables Psychic Terrain, but also protects Kyurem-Black from status and reduces damage from super-effective Dragon-typed attacks. Pursuit support from Pokemon such as Mega Gyarados can also be used to remove Psychic-typed users of Psychic Surge.

Offensively, it appreciates teammates that can eliminate its checks and counters in the form of Pokemon such as Shedinja, Fur Coat Chansey, and Mega-Diancie. Red Orb Groudon is a good partner that defeats many of these checks and Kyure-Black can threaten its walls, Giratina and Zygarde-Complete, quite well, alongside fast Pokemon that would outspeed and severely damage Groudon. Pokemon running Illusion, such as Mega-Rayquaza or Mega-Kangaskhan, can disguise themselves as Kyurem-Black to lure in and defeat its checks.

Other good defensive partners include Aegislash-Shield, who resists or is immune to all of Kyurem-Black's weaknesses, checks Imposters as long as Kyurem-Black lacks ground or Fire coverage, wall most common moves ran by Psychic Surge user,s can bring Kyurem-Black in on a slow U-turn, and run Prankster Haze to stop set-up sweepers. For sets lacking Bolt Strike, Primal Kyogre and Slowbro-Mega also pair well as they too can stop Imposters and also wall certain checks, such as Solgaleo. Kyogre in particular can use Kyurem-Black's checks as an opportunity to set-up, doubling as an offensive partner.


Other Options
Kyurem-Black has an ideal typing for a Skill Link set running moves like Icicle Spear, Bone Rush, and Bullet Seed and setting up with Shell Smash. While its physical STAB is stronger out of the gate than Extreme Speed or Frustration, it lacks the priority or anti-Imposter options provided by those two moves and its reliant on set-up to threaten offensive teams, making it vulnerable to anti-set-up strategies. Technician is a higher risk, higher reward option over Skill Link, sacrificing consistency for potential power, and can take advantage of moves such as Dual Chop, Dragon Tail, and Bonemerang.



Checks and Counters
**Entry hazards** Kyurem-Black is weak to all forms of them, especially Stealth Rock, and can be worn down fairly quickly if it needs to switch into hazards frequently or combined with other residual damage.
**Faster Priority** Some opposing -ate ability users and Triage Pokemon are able to outpace Kyurem-Black's priority and strike it first. Mega-Diancie in particular can win most 1 on 1s as it can outright OHKO Kyurem-Black with Boomburst or inflict heavy damage with Fake Out + Extreme Speed. Mega-Rayquaza can also Fake Out + Extreme Speed first in a fair one on one match-up, though loses if Kyurem-Black gets a safe switch into it.
**Psychic Terrain, Queenly Majesty, and Dazzling** These shutdown Kyurem-Black sets reliant on priority. Many also carry a Focus Sash and Shell Smash, meaning staying in to use a coverage move instead is extremely risky. Terrain and Core Enforcer support from Kyurem-Black's Team can help bypass these abilities.
**Physically bulky Pokemon** Mega Slowbro, Registeel, and Fur Coat users, such as Arceus, among others can stomach most attacks. Boomburst can bypass a number of these, though Fur Coat Chansey in particular isn't threatened by this.
**Steel-types** can resist Kyurem-Black's STAB and often can hit hard back with Sunsteel Strike, though they struggle with Kyurem-Black's Ground and Fire coverage.
**Bulky Water-types** also resist Kyurem-Black's STAB and easy switch-in on V-Create sets as well. Most of them fear Bolt Strike, but some of them, such as Fur Coat Primal Kyogre, can easily switch in on anything Kyurem-Black can throw at it, including Bolt Strike if Kyurem-Black lacks a Life Orb.
**Core Enforcer** Not only is the attack super-effective, but as Kyurem-Black often uses priority moves and invests in its speed, and many Core Enforcer users run minimal speed, it often loses its ability in the process, which is something Kyurem-Black cannot afford.
**Status** Burns in particular all but disable Kyurem-Black, Paralysis makes it vulnerable to being outspeed by even middling speed Pokemon, Poison can quickly wear it down, especially if using a Life Orb, and Sleep leaves it a sitting duck.
**Mega Mewtwo X** has trouble switching in on certain sets, but, once its in, it can OHKO Kyurem-Black with Close Combat, Super Power, or Low Kick. While an unboosted Drain Punch cannot OHKO Kyurem-Black, with Triage it outspeeds even priority-abusing Refrigerate sets and the healing from the move ensures Mewtwo X wins in a fair fight.
 
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Kyurem-B is ready for QC checks!


Electrolyte Not QC feedback, but I feel like a set akin to standard Kyu-B using physical priority should be mentioned, since Zekrom has comparatively high physical power to its special and, in my experience last gen, it ran standard Kyu-B set more or less just fine with Refrigerate, so I imagine it would work really well doing similar with Galvanize. ...although you'd have to swap out Bolt Strike. Maybe Ice Hammer?

Refrigerate might be worth adding to Other Options too, since it'd let it catch its counters completely off guard and utterly wreck them with moves they though they were immune to.
 
Implemented Kyu-B to QC 1/3

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/balanced-hackmons-analysis-megathread.3592578/#post-7186069


E4 Flint From your suggestion to mention Bullet Seed sometimes failing to OHKO IO Chansey, I ended up discovering a new EV spread that ensures the OHKO fails all the time and added it to the Skill Link set under Set Details and Usage Tips as an option. Tagging you since I'm not sure if you need to double check it or if it should just be left to the rest of the QC team.


Still Alive! Sets running Life Orb should at the very least be running odd HP, which in your case is 248. There is probably a more efficient "Life Orb number" for Regigas' HP EVs, but I'm not sure what it is. It would be worth looking into for sets with Life Orb as the first slash on items.
 
I'll go ahead and note that Kyurem-Black is up to date for EV limit removal and Water Bubble ban. ...it helps that it's a rather straight forward Pokemon who's really not going to do anything different regardless of whether the EV limit is 510, 5100, or .051.
 

RNGIsFatal

Banned deucer.
The one who always peaks in others business Big Daddy Guzma is back

Rumors

I just got bored while waiting for new Kyurem-W QC check and Mega Garchomp analysis. Let me do AM QC check.

* Purely personal opinion
* Comments in bold (because my avatar runs Bold nature)
* If I were in QC team I would reject this. Please don't feel offended.

Overview
*Strongest physical Refrigerate user
*Excellent offensive typing in Ice/Dragon that allows it to get great coverage with two or three moves
*Ice-STAB eliminates or severely threatens several key threats, such as Mega-Rayquaza, Zekrom, and Zygarde-Complete.
*Only -ate user who resists Galvanize, making it a great answer to Galvanize Zekrom.
*Great check to set-up sweepers
*Competes with Mega-Rayquaza, Mega-Diancie, Zekrom, and Kyurem-White for -ate user.
*Bulkier in practice than Mega-Ray and Mega-Diancie by virtue of not being 4x weak to commonly ran moves to check other threats. -ate STAB has no immunities, like Zekrom. Utterly destroys Zygarde-C, who can wall many other threats. Abuses priority better than Kyu-W.

(above) Wanna make these complete sentences?

Refrigerate
Kyurem Black @ Icicle Plate / Safety Goggles
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 all (I get it that EV limits are gone but you still gotta have proper PS! import formatting)
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed / Frustration
- Bolt Strike / Thousand Arrows / Sunsteel Strike
- Taunt / Swords Dance / U-Turn
Moves
*Fake Out racks up free damage against targets, breaks Focus Sashes, and can allow Kyurem-B to 2HKO a most Ice-weak or frail Pokemon in combination with Extreme Speed.
*Frustration is an option for dealing with anti-priority or using Kyu-B on Psychic Terrain teams. Could also replace Fake Out with a 3rd or 4th slot move. (Then why do you run default maximum happiness? Also mention that it helps with improofing in set details.)
*Bolt Strike gives Kyu-B amazing coverage with classic Boltbeam typing. Notable in that it hits Water-types, such as Primal Kyogre, quite hard and lets Kyurem nail Steel-types neutrally. (Boltbeam, I get what it means, but mention specifically how do they cover many types.)
*Thousand Arrows hits Steel-types harder if needed. Can be used in 4th slot. (Maybe mention examples of annoying Steel types? All analysis have examples of which all coverage moves specifically target.)
*Sunsteel Strike kills Shedinja and has an added bonus of nailing Fairies and opposing Kyurem hard. Can be ran in 4th move slot.
*Taunt shuts down passive threats to Kyu-B, such as Fur Coat Chansey, with little harm done if it is bounced back.
*Swords Dance allows it to set-up to sweep once its checks are gone.
*U-Turn allows Kyu-B to scout for checks and pivot to the appropriate Pokemon.

Consider V-Create as the option. With Expert Belt / Life Orb it can OHKO Registeel, even after EV limitations are gone.

Set Details
*Icicle Plate maximizes Ice-typed moves without any recoil. (from Life Orb)
*Safety Goggles blocks Spores.

Usage Tips
*Due to low PP, scouting is often needed before fully committing with it. Extreme Speed should be used sparingly to conserve it for the best situation.
*Kyu-B has trouble outright sweeping most teams without set-up.
*Beware King's Shield and similar Protects. Rocket Helmet too.
*Keep the field of hazards, particularly Stealth Rock.
*Sunsteel Strike can help deal with both Fur Coat, Shedinja, and, if setting up, Unaware.
* MENTION NOT TO USE PRIORITY WITHOUT CONFIRMING OPPONENT HAS APS (anti priority set up, or anti-priority in general)

Team Options
*Appreciates entry hazard support and removal.
*Appreciates Wish and cleric support
*Offensively, appreciates teammates that can eliminate its checks and counters, such as Shedinja if not running Sunsteel, such as Mold Breaker + Pursuit Mega-Gengar.
*Illusion users can also disguise themselves as Kyurem-B to deal with its checks.
*Offensive partners walled by Giratina and Zygarde-C, such as Primal Groudon, can work well and can be chosen to break Kyu-B's checks.
*Aegislash-Shield makes for a good defensive partner as it resists or is immune to all of Kyu-B's weaknesses (examples?), can check Imposter Kyu-B's, and can slow pivot to bring it in safely. *Primal Kyogre also pairs nicely with Kyu-Bs lacking Bolt Strike, as it can set-up on Imposters and most of Kyu-B's checks.
*Likewise, Slowbro-Mega can easily wall Imposters of non-Bolt Strike sets and can wall many of its checks.


Anti-Imposter
Kyurem Black @ Rocky Helmet / Safety Goggles / Choice Band
Ability: Refrigerate
(Happiness?)
EVs: 248 HP / 252 all
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Bolt Strike
- Infestation / Spore / Leech Seed
- Shift Gear / Fake Out / U-Turn

Moves
*Most Imposters run default max happiness, so Frustration is a great STAB that inflicts lots of damage without risk to itself.
*Bolt Strike for coverage and Kyogre.
-Infestation KOs Shedinja (Sturdy) and traps opposing Imposters, allowing it to deal with them.
-Spore sleeps opposing Imposters, but requires Safety Goggles to be used.
-Leech Seed saps Imposters health, healing Kyu-B for more HP than they gain from it.
-Shift Gear allows it to more easily set-up for a sweep and to lure Imposters in.
-Fake Out bluffs standard Refrigerate. (and is a last-ditch method to make stop sweepers)
-U-Turn scouts and is good on a Choice Band set.


Set Details
*EVs maximize Kyu-B's power and bulk, allowing 5 switches into Stealth Rock.
*Rocky Helmet severely punishes Imposters, along with other contact physical attackers.
*Also allows it to KO Shedinja in a pinch lest it have Protective Pads.
*Safety Goggles good in general, but mainly for running Spore.
*Choice Band lets Kyu-B do even more damage to Imposter and also allows it to break walls more easily without set-up.

Usage Tips
*Can bluff standard 'Fridge until its set is revealed.
*Avoid KOing Shedinja with Rocky Helmet if possible.
*Avoid boosting too much if Imposter is still alive since even resisted hits hurt a lot after a few.
*Scout for Spectral Thief and Prankster Haze if boosting.
*Keeps the field clear of entry hazards, such as Stealth Rock.

Team Options
*Can team up with some other Pokemon as defensive Imposter checks, such as Giratina, since their Frustration is usually weak.
*Can be paired with a standard Refrigerate Kyurem-B to confuse the opponent.
*Sweepers weak to Imposter appreciate Kyu-B's ability to deal with them, along with certain walls like Giratina and Zygarde.
*Offensive partners, such as Primal Groudon, walled by Giratina and Zygarde-C work well and can be chosen to break Kyu-B's checks.
*Wants entry hazard support and hazard removal.
*Appreciates teammates that can break physically defensive Registeel, Solgaleo, and others.
*Similar Pokemon pair nicely with the set.
*Appreciates Wish support since it is not fully immune to Imposters.
*Wants anti-Shed support if not running Infestation.
*Likewise, Slowbro-Mega can easily wall Imposters of non-Bolt Strike sets and can wall many of its checks.


Skill Link
Kyurem Black @ Life Orb / Lum Berry / King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 240 HP / 252 all
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Bone Rush
- Bullet Seed / Sunsteel Strike / U-turn
- Shift Gear / Swords Dance / King's Shield

Moves
*Bypasses Substitute and Focus Sash without making contact with its STAB
*Avoids contact-punishment Protects and Rockey Helmets.
*Bone Rush provides perfect coverage against all non-Levitate users in the tier.
*Bullet Seed provides great coverage against Water-types, like Kyogre. Additionally, without a Life Orb, it may fail to OHKO Innards Out Chansey unboosted.
*Sunsteel Strike bops Sheddy (imagine newbie read this and think something called "sheddy" actually exists without knowing it actually refers to Sturdy Shedinja), Fur Coat, and, after boosting, Unaware.
*U-Turn scouts and potentially bluffs Fridge if the opponent doesn't know the set yet.
*Shift Gear is preferred set-up to outspeed faster Pokemon and pairs better with King's Rock. Swords Dance hits harder and bluffs Fridge if Kyu-B hasn't attacked.
*King's Shield blocks opposing -ate priority as well as some other attackers.

Set Details
*240 HP EVs allows Kyurem-B to get maximum usage out of Life Orb (also switching into Stealth Rock for one extra time)
*If Innards Out Chansey is a problem, running 232 Atk EVs with a Jolly nature will ensure that the first hit of an unboosted Bullet Seed will never OHKO max HP minimal Defense Chansey while getting the most out of the rest of your stats.
*Life Orb gives it enough power to break past numerous Pokemon without set-up.
*Lum dodges crippling status, King's Rock gives just under 50% flinch chance for semi-reliable hax.

Usage Tips
*Lacks immediate power of Fridge, but can deal with some checks to Fridge, such as Protect + Substitute and certain walls that otherwise stop physical -ates.
*Gets a lot of mileage by bluffing standard Refrigerate with timely switches. Watch for Imposters.
*Sunsteel Strike deals with sets that would wall Kyurem-B otherwise, such as Fur Coat or Unaware Mega Audino.
*If running anti-Innards Out EV spread, be sure not to set hazards or inflict prior damage on Innards Out Chansey, otherwise Kyu-B will likely OHKO it and go down in the process.

Team Options
*Pairs well with common -ate users, particularly a second Kyurem-B running standard Refrigerate for extra confusion. -Ates except Galvanize, in turn, check even boosted Imposters of the set fairly well.
*Offensive partners walled by Giratina and Zygarde-C work well and can be chosen to break Kyu-B's checks.
*Walls that can take boosted neutral hits, or non-boosted hits with Unaware, are ideal partners due to Kyu-B's amazing coverage and Imposter vulnerability. Examples include Mega-Slowbro and, if not using Sunsteel Stike, Sturdy Shedinja.
*Appreciates entry hazard support and removal.
*Appreciates anti-Shed if not Sunsteel.

Other Options
-Refrigerate sets have access to a number of other moves.
-Facade with Toxic Orb creates high risk, high reward, somewhat Imposter-immune sets.
-Can use an unlockable Rapid Spin. Not ideal due to hazard weakness.
-Explosion can one for one trade on most of the tier and severely cripple most survivors. Makes Imposters dangerous if they're feeling suicidal, however.
-Feint bypasses Protect moves, but serves little other purpose. (Worth mentioning still in today's meta?)
-Boomburst nukes physical walls.
-Sets using Bolt Strike can use Fusion Bolt to trade power for accuracy.
-Most sets can benefit from running Thousand Arrows, though the move can be swapped for Earthquake or Precipice Blades. All of them can be paired with sets such as Fur Coat Kyogre-P to Imposterproof.
-Knock Off can take advantage of switches and cripple some sets.
-Low Kick hits most Levitate Steel-types hard, but offers worse coverage.
-All sets appreciate Recover-esque moves if they can spare the slot.
-Can use a Technician set by frankensteining the Skill Link set with moves like Dual Chop, Dragon Tail, and Bonemerang. Higher potential power, less consistency.
-Ice Hammer gives it a new, reliable STAB option.
-Can run Stakeout to critically bluff a Fridge set and eliminate a key wall.
-Can utilize other abilities, such as Simple, quite well.
-Protective Pads can be used to avoid damage from Rocky Helmet.

Checks and Counters
-Entry hazards! Kyurem-B is weak to all forms of them, especially Stealth Rock, and can be worn down fairly quickly if it needs to switch into hazards frequently or combined with other residual damage.
-Solgaleo can resist Kyu-B's STAB and often can hit hard back with Sunsteel Strike.
-Opposing Refridgerate, Aerilate, and Pixilate. Standard Refrigerate can check in turn if it gets a safe switch into them.
-Physic Terrain, Queen's Majesty, and Dazzling shutdown sets reliant on priority.
-Physically bulky Pokemon, such as Mega Slowbro, Registeel, Av Regen Regirock, Fur Coat, some Unaware even with boosting. Boomburst can bypass a number of these that boosts can't.
-Status. Kyu-B hates all of it.
-Mewtwo X has trouble switching in on certain sets, but, once its in, it can OHKO Kyu-B with Close Combat, Super Power, or Low Kick. While an unboosted Drain Punch cannot OHKO Kyu-B, with Triage it outspeeds even priority-abusing Refrigerate sets and the healing from the move ensures Mewtwo X wins in a fair fight.
Overall this does not sound too formal though.

I believe, in general, analysis should be written as if someone who never played the metagame before is going to see it. In my standpoint, as the one with some experience in BH, I can totally see where you are coming from; however, this will entirely confuse the reader with general tone, diction, and random abbreviation.

Many analysis that have been uploaded have the same issue in my opinion, such as this Shuckle analysis mentions

"Shuckle can't do anything else that isn't utter garbage or outclassed by other Pokemon."

I believe you do not want your analysis to seem to look as a bad internet post or private message to a friend.
I am not mentioning that your analysis' content is bad; it is sophisticated, but I want you to take a time to compare your analysis to Still Alive!'s analysis on Regigigas that failed to get QC check from Quantum Tesseract due to its general quality.

If I were you I would consider about this before asking QC team for QC check. Remember, this is an Internet post that is going to be publicly visible to anybody.

To tell the truth, my first language is not English yet I am still aware that any public messages should have some degree of formality. You should be aware of this too.

Sorry for general critique-like tone, and have a good day. Good analysis overall, just make this major change and you should get QC check in no time.
 
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RNGIsCancer The shorthand and the like is deliberate as I'm only at QC 1 and, at the top of my post, I mention I plan to remove it come time to prep for QC 3. I mean, yes, the current state isn't what I'd want to show to the world but... this version won't be shown on the main site. If you want to see what it'll look like come time to rewrite to paragraphs, just look at my Gen V Kyu-B analyses to get an idea.

Also, I'm not sure happiness will show on the main Smogon site? It doesn't look like it uses precisely the same formatting as PS. Very close though.

The way EVs are currently written is no official response on how to format it, it's a placeholder until then,

I'll review your comments tomorrow in detail, since I won't be on the way to bed for work in the morning then.[/URL]
 
MY GRAND DEBUT IS HERE
Rumors
Overview
*Strongest physical Refrigerate user.
*Excellent offensive typing in Ice/Dragon that allows it to get great coverage with two or three moves
*Ice-STAB Ice STAB eliminates or severely threatens several key threats, such as Mega-Rayquaza, Zekrom, and Zygarde-Complete. Although its true Zekrom is threatened by Ice, there are more pressing threats like Yveltal or Giratina that it'd mention here over Zekrom
*Only -ate user who resists Galvanize, making it a great answer to Galvanize Zekrom.
*Great check to set-up sweepers Mention how it struggles to check Dazzling / QM set up sweepers
*Competes with Mega-Rayquaza, Mega-Diancie, Zekrom, and Kyurem-White for -ate user.
*Bulkier in practice than Mega-Ray and Mega-Diancie by virtue of not being 4x weak to commonly ran moves to check other threats. -ate STAB has no immunities, like Zekrom. Utterly destroys Zygarde-C, who can wall many other threats. Abuses priority better than Kyu-W. This bullet point is weird, you've got several different points all rolled up into one. Remove the "Utterly destroys Zyg" line and instead elaborate on that in bullet point 3. Remove the "Abuses priority better than Kyu-W" line, not sure how this is really relevant. Separate and flesh out the remaining points. Remember, the pros come before the cons in the overview so move these bullet points up a few places.

Refrigerate
Kyurem Black @ Icicle Plate / Safety Goggles
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 all [I'm sure you know this already but you'll need to put proper EVs here after]
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed / Frustration
- Bolt Strike / Thousand Arrows / Sunsteel Strike
- Taunt / Swords Dance / U-Turn
If this were to be imported you'd have maximum happiness with Frustration. Specify 0 happiness.
Moves

*Fake Out racks up free damage against targets, breaks Focus Sashes, and can allow Kyurem-B to 2HKO a most Ice-weak or frail Pokemon in combination with Extreme Speed. "A most Ice-weak"?
*Frustration is an option for dealing with anti-priority or using Kyu-B on Psychic Terrain teams. Could also replace Fake Out with a 3rd or 4th slot move. Clarify what you mean with "Could replace fake out". It's only slashed in moveslot 2. Don't mention things like that here in the moves section, that's what slashes are for.
*Bolt Strike gives Kyu-B amazing coverage with classic Boltbeam typing. Notable in that it hits Water-types, such as Primal Kyogre, quite hard and lets Kyurem nail Steel-types neutrally. Which steel gets "nailed" by bolt strike? the relevant ones all can take two comfortably.
*Thousand Arrows hits Steel-types harder if needed. Can be used in 4th slot. This shit is way too weak to actually deal with steels (Aegislash is the only Steel that gets 2HKO'd, but its a roll), also Arrows' side effect is worthless since like almost every Flying type besides Celesteela gets hit with Ice STAB harder. Mention V-create and / or Precipice as options to crush steel -ate checks, depending on if you prefer Ground or Fire coverage, or what you improof this set with.
*Sunsteel Strike kills Shedinja and has an added bonus of nailing Fairies and opposing Kyurem-Black hard. Can be ran in 4th move slot. What does "Can be ran in 4th move slot" supposed to mean? If it can be in the 4th slot then shouldn't it be slashed in the 4th slot somewhere? Remove this statement
*Taunt shuts down passive threats to Kyu-B Kyurem-Black, such as Fur Coat Chansey, with little harm done if it is bounced back.
*Swords Dance allows it to set-up to sweep once its checks are gone or weakened.
*U-Turn U-turn allows Kyu-B Kyurem-Black to scout for checks and pivot to the appropriate Pokemon.

Set Details
*Icicle Plate maximizes Ice-typed moves without any recoil. Poorly worded. Try again
*Safety Goggles blocks Spores. From what? imposter? -ate checks dont often run spore. you need to go into a bit more detail here.
You can probably mention why you chose adamant here. Not only does it power up ur priority moves but it secures the OHKO on fur-coat-less zygarde with E-Speed and 2HKOs mega gengar with fake out + espeed.


Usage Tips
*Due to low PP, scouting is often needed before fully committing with it. Extreme Speed should be used sparingly to conserve it for the best situation. with "it"? what does this mean? please clarify
*Kyu-B Kyurem-Black has trouble outright sweeping most teams without set-up. this doesn't explain how kyub should be used. should you not go for the sweep? should you use swords dance before going for the sweep? im struggling to understand what this point is telling me.
*Beware King's Shield and similar Protects. Rocket Helmet too. there are only so many variations of protect, just mention baneful bunker + spiky shield by name, its fine. Also explain why they need to be feared and what the player can do to avoid being hurt by these moves.
*Keep the field of hazards, particularly Stealth Rock. poorly worded
*Sunsteel Strike can help deal with both Fur Coat, Shedinja, and, if setting up, Unaware. mention this in moves.
mention how kyub is best used to pressure offensive pokemon that struggle to handle its priority, and also how it can punch holes through teams with its coverage (vcreate / precipice). Additionally you should mention here to attempt to scout out psychic surge, dazzling and QM users, as they can prevent kyub's key moves from working.


Team Options
*Appreciates entry hazard support and removal. mention at least one mon that can do this for Kyub.
*Appreciates Wish and cleric support. ----------^
*Offensively, appreciates teammates that can eliminate its checks and counters, such as Shedinja if not running Sunsteel, such as Mold Breaker + Pursuit Mega-Gengar.
*Illusion users can also disguise themselves as Kyurem-B to deal with its checks. like who? mega kangaskhan or mega ray would probably make for good partners, so i'd mention that.
*Offensive partners walled by Giratina and Zygarde-C, such as Primal Groudon, can work well and can be chosen to break Kyu-B's checks. be more clear when you say kyub breaks pdon's counters.
*Aegislash-Shield Aegislash makes for a good defensive partner as it resists or is immune to all of Kyu-B's weaknesses, can check Imposter Kyu-B's, and can slow pivot to bring it in safely. clarify what you mean with "imposter kyubs". not everyone reading this is a BH player so since this is the first time imposter is mentioned, briefly explain what it is. EG "an opposing Chansey transformed into Kyurem-Black via imposter"
*Primal Kyogre also pairs nicely with Kyu-Bs lacking Bolt Strike, as it can set-up on Imposters and most of Kyu-B's checks. like? mention at least a couple of checks pogre can set up on.
*Likewise, Slowbro-Mega can easily wall Imposters of non-Bolt Strike sets and can wall many of its checks. i dont understand this point at all. if slowbro does something pogre doesn't then tell us here, if not then mention it in the point above.

Anti-Imposter
Kyurem Black @ Rocky Helmet / Safety Goggles / Choice Band
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 all [again, dont forget the evs]
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Bolt Strike
- Infestation / Spore / Leech Seed
- Shift Gear / Fake Out / U-Turn
you need to specify 0 happiness somewhere here, copy and paste from Pokemon Showdown's teambuilder if you're not sure where that goes.

Moves
*Most Imposters run default max happiness, so Frustration is a great STAB that inflicts lots of damage without risk to itself. the way this is worded makes it seem as if the cause of Frustration's power is the default max happiness that Imposters run, which is false. I understand what you mean here, but it can be explained better. "Most users of Imposter run maximum happiness, which is the default. As a result, an Imposter Pokemon transformed into Kyurem-Black will have a Frustration of base power 2 (or whatever the minimum is)....." is how i'd do it.
*Bolt Strike for coverage and Kyogre. "for coverage, notably hitting Primal Kyogre and Mega Gyarados", not coverage and kyogre.
-Infestation KOs Shedinja and traps opposing Imposters, allowing it to deal with them. "deal with them" is too ambiguous, specify what you mean with it.
-Spore sleeps opposing Imposters, but requires Safety Goggles to be used. not true. safety goggles is for if you lose the tie. you can explain this better. also spore is useful for more than just imposter.
-Leech Seed saps Imposters health, healing Kyu-B for more HP than they gain from it. mention how this is effective against the most common user of imposter, chansey, as this statement wouldnt be true for something like pikachu. also mention how the previous two moves shouldnt be used with CB.
-Shift Gear allows it to more easily set-up for a sweep and to lure Imposters in.
-Fake Out bluffs standard Refrigerate. again, shouldnt be used with CB
-U-Turn scouts and is good on a Choice Band set.

Set Details
*EVs maximize Kyu-B's power and bulk, allowing 5 switches into Stealth Rock. This should be mentioned in the set above's set details as well.
*Rocky Helmet severely punishes Imposters, along with other contact physical attackers. like shedinja and weak uturns from walls. please dont actually use the word "walls", give a few examples.
*Also allows it to KO Shedinja in a pinch lest it have Protective Pads. this can be merged with the above point.
*Safety Goggles good in general, but mainly for running Spore.
*Choice Band lets Kyu-B do even more damage to Imposter and also allows it to break walls more easily without set-up.

Usage Tips
*Can bluff standard 'Fridge Refridgerate until its set is revealed.
*Avoid KOing Shedinja with Rocky Helmet if possible. What does this mean?
*Avoid boosting too much if Imposter is still alive since even resisted hits hurt a lot after a few. after a few what? you can't be skipping words in an analysis.
*Scout for Spectral Thief and Prankster Haze if boosting.
*Keeps the field clear of entry hazards, such as Stealth Rock.

Team Options
*Can team up with some other Pokemon as defensive Imposter checks, such as Giratina, since their Frustration is usually weak.
*Can be paired with a standard Refrigerate Kyurem-B to confuse the opponent.
*Sweepers weak to Imposter appreciate Kyu-B's ability to deal with them, along with certain walls like Giratina and Zygarde-C.
*Offensive partners, such as Primal Groudon, walled by Giratina and Zygarde-C work well and can be chosen to break Kyu-B's checks.
*Wants entry hazard support and hazard removal.
*Appreciates teammates that can break physically defensive Registeel, Solgaleo, and others. might want to mention magnet pull if it does not get banned
*Similar Pokemon pair nicely with the set. very ambiguous, please go into detail what you mean with this point
*Appreciates Wish support since it is not fully immune to Imposters. immune isn't the word i'd use. say something like "cannot beat imposter one on one all of the time. if it is low on health, it will lose".
*Wants anti-Shed support if not running Infestation or leech seed or rocky helmet.
*Likewise, Slowbro-Mega can easily wall Imposters of non-Bolt Strike sets and can wall many of its checks. bolt strike is the only option for slot #2, so Slowbro cant check this set at all. Like flint said, Slowbro allows you to run a different coverage move like precipice blades or vcreate. ur options are to either remove this slowbro point or to add the coverage moves where ive told you to.

Skill Link
Kyurem Black @ Life Orb / Lum Berry / King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 240 HP / 252 all
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Bone Rush
- Bullet Seed / Sunsteel Strike / U-turn
- Shift Gear / Swords Dance / King's Shield

Moves
*Bypasses Substitute and Focus Sash without making contact with its STAB. icicle spear does this. at least mention the name of the move you're talking about.
*Avoids contact-punishment Protects and Rockey Helmets. this point should be merged with the one above.
*Bone Rush provides perfect coverage against all non-Levitate users in the tier. give us examples of what this hits hard that icicle spear doesn't
*Bullet Seed provides great coverage against Water-types, like Kyogre. Primal. Primal Kyogre.
*Sunsteel Strike bops Sheddy Shedinja, Fur Coat, and, after boosting, Unaware Pokemon like Mega Audino.
*U-Turn (It's "U-turn", with a lowercase "t", you make this error a lot) scouts and potentially bluffs Fridge (Refridgerate) if the opponent doesn't know the set yet.
*Shift Gear is preferred set-up to outspeed faster Pokemon and pairs better with King's Rock. Swords Dance hits harder and bluffs Fridge if Kyu-B hasn't attacked.
*King's Shield blocks opposing -ate priority as well as some other attackers. mention how the attack drop then lets it combat those -ate guys later on.

Set Details
*240 HP EVs allows Kyurem-B to get maximum usage out of Life Orb.
*Life Orb gives it enough power to break past numerous Pokemon without set-up. which pokemon does it break past? please tell us in this point. Flint told you to clarify but you didn't...
*Lum dodges crippling status, King's Rock gives just under 50% flinch chance for semi-reliable hax. divide this up into two different points. give us an example of when lum can come in handy (setting up vs wisp walls, spore users)

Usage Tips
*Lacks immediate power of Fridge, but can deal with some checks to Fridge, such as Protect + Substitute and certain walls that otherwise stop physical -ates. "Protect + Substitute" is not a check to refridgerate. what uses these moves? how do they stop refridgerate? please explain. Also give an example of a certain wall that this set beats but the other sets dont.
*Gets a lot of mileage by bluffing standard Refrigerate with timely switches. Watch for Imposters. it cant beat imposter one on one, say this instead of just "watch out"
*Sunsteel Strike deals with sets that would wall Kyurem-B otherwise, such as Fur Coat or Unaware Mega Audino. this doesn't belong in usage tips, put this under moves.

Team Options
*Pairs well with common -ate users, particularly a second Kyurem-B running standard Refrigerate for extra confusion. -Ates except Galvanize, in turn, check even boosted Imposters of the set fairly well. No they don't. Mega Ray cant scratch it, Diancie barely does 60%. Remove that last sentence.
*Offensive partners walled by Giratina and Zygarde-C work well and can be chosen to break Kyu-B's checks. Like? Please give an example
*Walls that can take boosted neutral hits, or non-boosted hits with Unaware, are ideal partners due to Kyu-B's amazing coverage and Imposter vulnerability. Examples include Mega-Slowbro and, if not using Sunsteel Stike, Sturdy Shedinja. boosted neutral hits from an imposter.
*Appreciates entry hazard support and removal.
*Appreciates anti-Shed if not Sunsteel.

Other Options
-Refrigerate sets have access to a number of other moves.
-Facade with Toxic Orb creates high risk, high reward, somewhat Imposter-immune sets.
-Can use an unblockable Rapid Spin. Not ideal due to hazard weakness.
-Explosion can one for one trade on most of the tier and severely cripple most survivors. Makes Imposters dangerous if they're feeling suicidal, however.
-Feint bypasses Protect moves, but serves little other purpose. (Worth mentioning still in today's meta?) i would remove this.
-Boomburst nukes physical walls.
-Sets using Bolt Strike can use Fusion Bolt to trade power for accuracy.
-Most sets can benefit from running Thousand Arrows, though the move can be swapped for Earthquake or Precipice Blades. All of them can be paired with sets such as Fur Coat Kyogre-P to Imposterproof.
-Knock Off can take advantage of switches and cripple some sets. like what? you need to sell these options to me, and at the moment im not convinced.
-Low Kick hits most Levitate Steel-types hard, but offers worse coverage. v create is better anyway, low kick doesnt hit aegislash and is weak vs Solgaleo. please remove this
-All sets appreciate Recover-esque moves if they can spare the slot.
-Can use a Technician set by frankensteining the Skill Link set with moves like Dual Chop, Dragon Tail, and Bonemerang. Higher potential power, less consistency. minor thing but I wouldn't use the word frankensteining. as far as im aware that's not a real word.
-Ice Hammer gives it a new, reliable STAB option. this move is simply outclassed on both refridgerate (Normal moves) and skill link sets (icicle spear). doesn't require mentioning
-Can run Stakeout to critically bluff a Fridge set and eliminate a key wall.
-Can utilize other abilities, such as Simple, quite well.
-Protective Pads can be used to avoid damage from Rocky Helmet.

Checks and Counters
-Entry hazards. Kyurem-B is weak to all forms of them, especially Stealth Rock, and can be worn down fairly quickly if it needs to switch into hazards frequently or combined with other residual damage.
-Solgaleo can resist Kyu-B's STAB and often can hit hard back with Sunsteel Strike. mention how it fears super effective coverage.
-Opposing Refridgerate, Aerilate, and Pixilate. Standard Refrigerate can check in turn if it gets a safe switch into them. how do -ates check them? you cannot assume readers already know what these sets are capable of.
-Physic Psychic Terrain, Queen's Queenly Majesty, and Dazzling shut down Kyurem-Black's sets reliant on priority.
-Physically bulky Pokemon, such as Mega Slowbro, Registeel, Av Regen Regirock, Fur Coat, some Unaware even with boosting. Boomburst can bypass a number of these that boosts can't. remove the regirock mention, give an example of at least one user of fur coat that can check Kyurem-B. reword "some unaware even with boosting", that doesn't make sense.
-Kyurem-B hates getting hit by Core Enforcer. Not only is the attack super-effective, but as Kyu-B likes it priority or speed boosting (doesn't make sense), it also frequently loses its ability, something it often cannot afford. be clear on why losing its ability is bad for kyurem
-Status. Kyu-B hates all of it. flesh out this point more.
- Mega Mewtwo X has trouble switching in on certain sets, but, once it's in, it can OHKO Kyu-B with Close Combat, Super Power, or Low Kick. While an unboosted Drain Punch cannot OHKO Kyu-B, with Triage it outspeeds even priority-abusing Refrigerate sets and the healing from the move ensures Mewtwo X wins in a fair fight.
There's a lot of stuff you'll need to go through so please make sure you read this post carefully. There are some things in Flint's check that you haven't implemented properly so I want to see you make these edits properly before approving the article. There's also a bunch of little spelling, grammar or formatting errors that you can just get out of the way here now. And yes, happiness needs to be specified if you are running anything but the default (which you are in some of these sets).

if u don't understand anything i've written or if ive missed something then PM me. GL
 
Last edited:
ScarfWynaut Implemented, though may have missed some Kyu-B abbreviations. I made a couple of changes to the first set, particularly on items, based on some testing I did, that you might want to double check.
 
You still mention Thousand Arrows under "moves" in the fridge set, when you mean Precipice Blades.
also you missed this comment under set details in the Fridge set - mention how kyub is best used to pressure offensive pokemon that struggle to handle its priority, and also how it can punch holes through teams with its coverage (vcreate / precipice).
(Since I can't put like... 8 slashes on each slot, is this comment acceptible?) - its fine, just mention it under moves
(Considering 90% of the sets in the meta can viably run U-turn, can I just be more general here somehow?) - you dont need to mention specific users of uturn, since nearly any wall can use it.
(Since I don't have a good move for CB in third slot, how do I address this better?) - keep what you got, but add a sentence recommending a move or two for the reader if they want to use CB
Lastly, I'd mention how z-moves are a nice way to bypass normalize to hit gengars if you're in a pinch.

Other than that, it looks good.
QC 2/3
 
ScarfWynaut I knew I'd miss something. But, all implemented/fixed as well. I also added a note in the first set's team support about terrain support to combat Psychic Terrain with an example of Misty Terrain. Not sure why it didn't occur to me sooner considering I pioneered Misty Terrain Giratina. But, everything added/changed since last edit is temporarily underlined if you feel like you wanna check it before I rewrite in paragraph format for QC3 in a few days.
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Overview:
  • Remove mention of Kyurem-W, seems like extra fluff for nothing.
  • Highlight its great mixed wallbreaking potential thanks to its good 170 / 120 offenses in combination with a great STAB that provides nice offensive neutral coverage.
  • Galvanize threats are not that common to come by par Primal Groudon (which never wants to switch into Kyu-B). Tbh I would just fix this sentence up by saying that its typing provides it useful resistances to Water and Electric-type attacks, offering it some opportunities to switchin.
  • Mention how well it matches up against offensive threats in general with its priority attacks, I would move the point about APS abilities in the "negatives" paragraph however as those abilities alone definitely contributed from its decline compared to ORAS.
  • Its other sets are not noteworthy enough to be in the overview tbh, Kyu-B is widely known for its Refirdge sets so I think its best if we keep it just at that.
  • You can just add in that its typing also leaves it with an SR weakness, a component that is starting to pop up more in play, preventing it from freely switching in as it pleases.
Refrigerate

Kyurem-Black @ Icicle Plate / Safety Goggles / Life Orb
Ability: Refrigerate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naughty / Naive Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed / Frustration
- Boomburst
- Precipice Blades / Bolt Strike / V-create

This is the optimal set that I think should be utilized. Kyu-B is best used as a mixed wallbreaker that can break through its checks with appropriate coverage moves, while still maintaining an offensive presence vs faster foes via priority moves. Z-Move lure options can definitely be run, but for an analysis I don't think should be mentioned primarily. I will comment on the moves that already are placed within the OP set:

Moves:
  • Frustration also allows Kyurem-B to have an option to target Imposters for more damage then they can return with 0 Happiness.
  • Mention Mega Gyarados as another Bolt Strike target.
  • U-turn can be listed as an option in moves, with the reasoning you have provided.
Set Details:
  • Safety Goggles provides an immunity to Spore, which aids Kyurem-B in switching in versus targets such as Regigiggas and certain Mega Rayquaza variants.
  • Also mention how Life Orb recoil + entry hazard chip can severely diminish Kyurem-B's sustainability.
  • The last paragraph should mention the Z-move options, as that what the item choice generally provides.
Usage Tips:
  • Kyurem-B can also break through physically defensive checks such as Fur Coat Mega Swampert and Giratina with the use of Boomburst, which can aid physically attacking teammates.
  • The first point in the second paragraph seems kinda awkward. While it is true, these protection moves are not as common as they once were with the arrival of APS. You can say that Kyurem-B should instead spam its special attacks if it has already scouted these move options if you really wanted to.
  • Also mention that Kyu-B can lure in APS threats that might want to come into FakeSpeed with options like Frustration and Boomburst.
Team Options:
  • Solgaleo is not an entry hazard setter, try other mentions like Giratina or Mega Audino.
  • Unless one can prove me otherwise, I have never seen a competitively viable team running Misty Terrain, mention Pursuit support instead since they can trap PsySurge users.
  • You mention Aegislash for the same reasons as Solgaleo (apart from the hazard removal), instead mention that Aegi and Registeel can check opposing setup sweepers with prankster haze, switchin to most Psychic Surge users, alongside providing slow pivoting.
Remove the "Anti-Imposter" set and move Skill Link to Other Options, both these sets are extremely niche and dont accurately represent Kyu-B's role in the current meta, moreso with the former.

Other Options:
  • Toxic Orb + Refridgerate makes me sad. Dont make me sad :(
  • Honeslty you can remove most of whats already here and just keep Shell Smash Skill Link and maybe Life Orb Technician sets. The rest does not look appealing, sorry.
Checks and Counters:
  • Replace Solgaleo with Steel-types in general, ie add Registeel and Aegislash.
  • Replace -ate section with just faster priority, then mention stuff like Pixilate Mega Diancie and Aerilate Mega Rayquaza.
  • Add section of bulky waters. Yes they fear Bolt Strike, but stuff like FC Ogre can even avoid the 2hko iirc without a Life Orb.
Implement the above changes and then a stamp will be given.
 
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with a number of these changes. I can't in good faith gut two sets and near-completely redo the remaining one at this junction for a 3rd QC check. All three sets passed QC 1 and 2, so it'd kinda feel like telling both Flint and ScarfWynaut "Oh hey, you guys were wrong to approve of these." More importantly, only taking one QC check on such a massive revision feels wrong. This is going up to public on display as an important resource, so "Oh yeah, it passed all three checks. Oh sure, half the analysis was heavily altered at the very last minute, after most of the checks were complete, but its totally been properly verified as being as accurate as possible" seriously feels like the wrong thing to do. I trust your knowledge, Funbot, but there's no way I can in good faith implement changes this drastic and then immediately go to GP checking.


Plus, I strongly feel the one set you're kept and revised is, as listed, largely outclassed by Kyurem-W and, perhaps to a lesser extent, Diancie-M and Rayquaza-M with their STAB-ates. I don't have time to break it down and really dig into it as of this post, but I'll be happy to go over why I think that in detail later if you wish.
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Rumors, I had initially discussed these changes with the other QC staff before I decided to post my check and we came to a universal agreement. I do empathise that this change might be coming in too late into the QC stage, but nonetheless is a change that we all agreed was necessary to better depict Kyurem-B's relevance in the metagame. As you said it yourself, this will be a resource to new players. so including main sets with Skill Link and Shift Gear Refidgerate would falsely represent Kyu-B as agreed upon by the council. Please follow through with the aforementioned changes.

Thanks
 

cityscapes

Take care of yourself.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
why is it 2:30 am

here's my thoughts on kyub concerning which sets should be featured, i tested some of them out. teams didn't involve much thought but they did all right on the ladder

=== [gen7balancedhackmons] kyub 1 ===

Kyurem-Black @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Bone Rush
- Bullet Seed

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Focus Sash
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Stored Power
- Moongeist Beam
- Secret Sword

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
IVs: 0 Def
- Strength Sap
- Shell Smash
- Psycho Boost
- Counter

Audino-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
Level: 98
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- U-turn
- Heal Order
- Defog

Shedinja @ Protective Pads
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 99
EVs: 252 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Def / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Endeavor
- Ice Shard
- U-turn

Chansey @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Whirlwind
- Final Gambit
- Shore Up


=== [gen7balancedhackmons] kyub 2 ===

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Boomburst
- Bolt Strike
- Precipice Blades

Deoxys-Attack @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 7 Def / 28 SpD
- Psycho Boost
- Psystrike
- Moongeist Beam
- Focus Blast

Gyarados-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Pursuit
- Slack Off
- Spectral Thief
- Whirlwind

Cresselia @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Revelation Dance
- Core Enforcer
- Spectral Thief

Giratina @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Gentle Nature
- Parting Shot
- Spectral Thief
- Core Enforcer
- Shore Up

Chansey @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Shore Up
- Whirlwind
- Final Gambit

skill link was actually a better set than i thought. icicle spear + bone rush + bullet seed makes your opponent wish they brought golisopod. shell smash was the set i used and imo shift gear isn't worth using due to its insufficient power vs giratina and stuff. psychic seed is for offense memes (sets up on specs mmy) but life orb is also cash. another potentially viable set is cb skill link but i didn't try that out. biggest problem is imposter and maybe shed. king's shield skill link is no set because all the ate users are faster anyway. dragon memory sounded ok but kyub kind of needs spear which doesn't exactly lend itself to being imposter proof. still tho this thing is a good sweeper and it should at least be in other options (although i think it deserves a main set, it's at least as good as refrigerate imo)

as for refrigerate, speed/boomburst/2 coverage is really the only thing i'd use in the current meta. fake out really only hits mold breaker gengar (you beat normalize with extreme speed in the long run, dazzlegar wins either way) and the rare mmy without surge. the extra coverage is really big otherwise you get walled half your games. sd extreme speed is an interesting idea i must say and i would like to see it in action. u-turn on the other hand doesn't sound very good, like sure you lure in their imposter or steel but then what

the imposter lure is cool but it doesn't sound like something i'd slap on a team. it isn't very effective at luring imposters considering that most people have u-turn steels as their first response to kyub. if they get imposter in through slow u-turn, then they know your set and they can just do whatever with their mmy and stuff. it shouldn't be its own set imo until i see a replay featuring it or something (i don't have any say on this bc no qc, but i think the people who do should see it too), also why would you use it and not something like earth plate pdon?

also Rumors let me ask you this: what reasons are there to use kyub over another ate user like mega diancie? what does it offer over them (no 4x weakness is not an argument)

my phrasing sucks when i write posts at 2:30 am and i probably wrote things a lot less nicely than i should have. sorry

post finish
 
I'll definitely try to get more detailed replies about what I think is the optimal set for Fridge later, hopefully tonight, don't really have time to sit down and think about how to write things clearly in the amount of detail I'm imagining I'd get to. Though glad to hear you got success out of Skill Link, it's been one of Kyu-B's better sets since Gen V for a reason. Though I'll go ahead and answer....


what reasons are there to use kyub over another ate user like mega diancie?
This is the real burning question. The other -ate users, even Kyu-W, do mixed stuff much better than Kyu-B currently, and I keep finding myself swapping Kyu-B for Kyu-W the majority of the time. Meanwhile, no EV limit and the prevalence of anti-priority really stifle Kyu-B's primarily niche of being a focused Fakespeeder. Physical Ice-STAB lacks strong enough wall-breaking moves too, with the best option being Return (or Explosion if all you care about are "BIG NUMBERS!!111!!1! XD") for Refrigerate or Ice Hammer with no ability. Fur Coat also is a real pain, especially since Boomburst doesn't even do jack squat to a number of them (hello Kyogre and Chansey!) The viability of Kyu-B has really tanked hard, IMO, since the analysis was started and I find myself sitting here thinking the only reason it hasn't been shut down is because its already almost done and the work shouldn't be left to waste.

...honestly, the more I think about it, the more I think Skill Link might be the better set. It has more immediate power, deals with most of what Fridge can't handle, and just about everything Fridge can handle Skill Link can potentially do so as well. And running super quick calcs, Icicle Spear breaks through Fur Coat Chansey and Audino and Bullet Seed through Furry Kyogre after one Shell Smash.


...although yeah, I can kinda agree that the Anti-Imposter set has probably run the course of its usefulness by now. It was cool back when the answer to nearly every set-up attempt was "Send in the Imposter!" and worked great, but people just don't do that anymore.


Tagging Silver_Lucario42 for replies since I can't quote correctly and Funbot28 in case he wants to reply before I go in-depth about Fridge sets.
 
Okay, didn't get to this nearly as soon as I wanted. But, here we go. Fridge Kyu-B and, if all else fails, why I really don't want that mixed set as the one to go up on the site. It's bad and its heavily outclassed. Boomburst should be a major option, but it shouldn't be a primary option, nor should Kyu-B focus on mixed. And then there's Life Orb, V-Create, etc. that needs to be addressed. So... one at a time.

Outclassing

The primary competition for Galvanate users are Diancie, Ray, Zekrom, and Kyu-W (Mega forms for clarfication where appropriate, but I'll be lazy and just refer to base forms for this post). Pokemon like Manectric, Xurkitree, Pidgeot, Weavile, Ampharos, Ho-Oh, Xerneas, and others can pull the abilities off, but aren't primary competitors for the role. Meanwhile, Groudon runs them as a lure, so while super viable, fits a different niche. So, lets compare to the four big ones.

Diancie: Better mixed offensive stats means stronger Boombursts without sacrificing much damage on the Fakespeed, Fairy is a bit better coverage (Gengar and Venusaur resisting STAB is kinda just a "Eh, shrug" issue), it has a Core Enforcer immunity, and it hits pretty much most of the targets Kyurem is aiming at anyway. Main downsides is it doesn't wreck Zygarde and Ray quite so hard and has a pesky 4x weakness to Steel, which can be relevant. Groudon also resists, which is a big deal because Primaldon is pretty much half the meta right now. But in any case, it just flat out does mixed-ate better and, if it had Ray's stats, it'd be THE goto -ate user. Let's not kid ourselves there, Fairy is crazy as an offensive typing, especially since it pairs with nearly every other type somewhat decently at worst as coverage. If I wanted a mix-ate to hit Dragons and junk, I'd start here.


Ray: Those stats are just outright insane for mixed anything. Only thing holding it back is Flying/Dragon is kinda... just a decent STAB combo. If Ray was like... I dunno, Flying/Ghost or Flying/Fire or just something better than Dragon, it'd probably be broken as hell. Kyu-B has a bit of an advantage in that its Ice-STAB is superior to Ray's Flying, and no 4x weakness for what it matters, but friggin' 180 mixed offenses is just too good to overlook. And, as a pure Fakespeeder nailing neutral targets, Ray does it better too. There's a huuuuuuuge reason why when teams were limited to only one -ate mixed Diancie and Ray were 95% of the picks and mixed Kyu-B was a thing people made fun of you for using.


Zekrom: Kyu-B actually has better mixed stats here, but Zekrom makes up for it in Electric-typing. The immunities suck but, unlike all other -ate abilities, Zekrom can actually STAB its way through Steel-types. And Giratina and Zygarde? Smash them with its Dragon-STAB. It has pretty darn good STAB coverage and it just blows through a lot of typical -ate checks. Most teams are not prepared for an Electric Boomburst. Kyu-B's only advantage here is hitting harder with the Fakespeed and not being weak to Ground or Ice. Electric is good neutral coverage in the tier right now if you can deal with its resistances and just blowing through crap like Kyogre is really nice.


Kyu-W: Here's the thing: with Adamant, Kyu-B's Boomburst hits as hard as its Extreme Speed. With Naughty, it hits harder, so it should be your main STAB of choice. So uhhh... if Boomburst is your main STAB, why are you using Kyu-B and not Kyu-W's superior Boomburst? Kyu-W can run a nature that doesn't compromise its bulk and, if it really wants to go "mixed", it can just use Extreme Speed to quickly pick off whatever survives its Boomburst. Specs Kyu-W is a terrific wallbreaking, Band Kyu-B is kinda junk in most cases. Scarf Kyu-W meanwhile outspeeds everything and scares the hell out of offensive Pokemon, pretty much doing what you want Kyu-B to do. Kyu-W can also hit physically with its special attack thanks to Secret Sword and, more situationally, Psystrike, so it can actually go "mixed" without going mixed! In the current meta where Fakespeed is not strong enough to pressure 2HKOs left and right and most stuff it can are immune half the time anyway, Kyu-W just does the job better. Really, the only thing Kyu-B can do is double down on the Ice-typed Fakespeeding to try to shine over Kyu-W as any set with Boomburst should STRONGLY consider Kyu-W instead.


So, in short: Diancie has better mixed offenses and generally better STAB, Ray just has better outright mixed offenses, Zekrom's offenses are a bit worse but its STAB breaks through a lot of common walls in the meta, and Kyu-W Boombursts so much better and Extreme Speeds well enough that it does mixed better in practice and, since Boomburst is Kyu-B's best STAB on mixed sets, even if because of PP + no contact on Adamant, its kinda silly to run it for that over the better Boomburster.


On Items

Life Orb does a lot of damage, but it is kinda shoddy. 20% HP per Fakespeed is a steep cost, especially when Fake Out is supposed to be your "almost completely free damage" card. It works great during EV Limit meta because it turns a lot of Fakespeeds into 2HKOs from 3HKOs. It doesn't do that anymore. Combine that many teams are going bulky and Life Orb becomes a big liability if you lack Wish support and especially if you're unable to clear hazards. Taking 35% damage from switching into Rocks to force out their Mewtwo and then using Fake Out into their Registeel to keep them playing honest with the Mewtwo, rather than Shell Smashing on your switch to your Registeel check, is just way too costly. It should not be a main item and, at best, should be an Other Option.

No problem with plate or goggles.

Z-moves... Kyu-B is a natural lure to Kyogre and Steel-types. Its the same philosophy as running stuff like Stakeout Fleur Cannon Primaldon to blow up their Giratina. I feel they should, at worst, be mentioned in Other Options.


On V-Create

Without a Life Orb, V-Create only picks up a OHKO on Aegislash on relevant targets. With it, well, I pointed out the problem above. Plus the stat drops are a huge momentum drain. Couple this with V-Create having lots of switch-ins and no potential to break non-Steel walls and you have a problem. But this is just the shadow of the bigger problem. There's a big, looming threat. Can you guess who?

Primal Groudon.

It can soak up your V-Creates like a champ and, if you don't have LO or Ice Plate, you only have a chance of 50% KO with Boomburst. If you run triple Ice-STAB + V-Create or the Speed/Burst/Bolt/V-Create set SL posted, Primal Groudon has a 75% chance of switching in without too much trouble and forcing you out, especially if its Jolly and ESPECIALLY if its Banded. Arceus help you if its Desolate Jolly Band. Groudon's completely unboosted V-Create does ~80% to Naughty Kyu-B and, if you have a V-Create drop yourself, that's a guaranteed OHKO. Basically, V-Create is a huge liability if they have a healthy don, as they can swap in to nuke you hard or set up for free while you run and hide.

What move doesn't have this problem?

Precipice Blades.

Unboosted has 96% chance to 2HKO Primaldon, making Groudon think twice about switching in. The Z-move lets Kyu-B OHKO with some chip damage. Precipice also 2HKOs all relevant Steel-types lacking Fur Coat. Except Celeteela and Ferrothorn, but they're neutral to Ice anyway. Precipice just lets Kyu-B keep more pressure on the opposing team with far fewer draw backs. Sure, the damage numbers aren't as huge, but I STRONGLY feel that's a price worth paying for not being as exploitable.

And then there's the whole Flashfire/Prim Sea Steel thing going on too. V-Create just sighs and goes home. Precipice just shrugs and blasts them anyway.

V-Create is cool, and if Primaldon is banned maybe it can become a primary move. But, until that happens, if it happens, it really shouldn't be a main slashed move, IMO. The drawbacks are just too strong in the current meta.


On the other 4th slot options.


Two of Kyu-B's big enemies are Fur Coat Chansey and Kyogre. The reason to take Boomburst is to deal with them. But they simply don't care and will wall you to heck, especially if you lack Bolt Strike. However, nine times out of then, these Pokemon are passive. And then there's other niche things, like Furry Audino, Furry Arceus, Furry Tapu Fini, etc. Hence why I have Taunt on there. Taunt lets Kyu-B shut down them down somewhat or entirely all in one button click. So, worst case scenario you have to 1v1 a Fur Coat user, Kyu-B can Taunt away their recovery and chip them down. Plus, since lot of Kyu-B switch-ins are defensive, like Prankster Registeel, Taunting on a predicted switch just offers a really strong advantage.

U-Turn is simple: Kyu-B forces a bunch of switches by existing. U-Turn maintains momentum. I can't really go into farther detail without being patronizing since we all know and exploit U-Turn here, I'm sure.

Sword Dance: Most disposable move on the set. But, it just lets Kyu-B clean up nicely, especially in the bulkier meta where you can easily eat all your Extreme Speed ineffectively against teams with some fat on them otherwise. It should be an Other Option at least, though I won't argue farther for keeping it on the main set since I don't feel its that important.


On Skill Link

Let's be honest here: Fridge Kyu-B is in a really crummy spot right now. I did extensive testing for the Gen VI analyses when -ate clause was in effect and, for both initial write-up of this one and for some major changes to Scarf's QC 2, I did a lot more testing. And, the metagame is just hating Kyu-B more and more. Its pretty much all but completely outclassed as an -ate user at this point. I keep swapping it for Kyu-W because it just does Refrigerate so much better, especially with Fur Coat and anti-priority being so prevalent.

The Skill Link set though? It offers a lot of the same power, without a lot of the drawbacks. It hits all the same targets Kyu-B wants to and its strong enough out of the gate and has more than enough PP to afford set-up moves, whether Shift Gear as listed or Shell Smash as SL suggested. It breaks APS, it can get boosted enough to break Fur Coat, it doesn't have many easy switch-ins, it can use its moves without fear of Rocky Plates, Baneful Bunkers, or whatever else. I'm really starting to feel it might even should be the main set. Now, I want to do some more testing for this but... I'm not able to put in enough time battling to do so effectively, but it really needs to stay. If you've not tried it, give it a spin, there's a reason why its been a staple set since Gen V.


Don't have a team? No problem, have mine! Its built to for a Kyurem already in the offensive core and even had that mixed Kyu-B set you guys want me to use originally, just swap Kyu-W for whatever Kyu-B set you wanna try and compare stuff with. Just be mindful, you might need to make other tweaks to account for set-up moves on Kyu-B.

Seriously though, if you guys having played with the sets I posted and compared them to the one you're suggesting, or compared to Kyu-W, I STRONGLY urge you to do so at least a little bit. Well... except the Anti-Imposter one, I'm okay axing it since I agree its probably outlived its usefulness.



Manectric-Mega @ Icium Z
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Steam Eruption
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch

Kyurem-White @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Earth Power
- Core Enforcer
- Trick

Groudon-Primal @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows
- Sunsteel Strike
- Trick

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer
- Milk Drink
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 SpA / 0 Spe
- Soft-Boiled
- Metal Burst
- Parting Shot
- Stealth Rock

Giratina @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Recover
- Defog
- Spectral Thief
- Baton Pass



Tagging Funbot28 for response. And I suppose I'll tag Silver_Lucario42 since my post addresses his too.
 

E4 Flint

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we discussed revamping some of the sets while redoing VR so I'd just go with what funbot mentioned in her last post and then we can think about what to move to OO potentially and secondary sets
 

dhelmise

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hey Rumors can you please go ahead and implement all of Funbot's check? The entire council agrees with her changes, and your continued defiance is really delaying this being uploaded. If you can't implement it, I'll gladly reassign.
 

cityscapes

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if you don't mind me asking why are these changes being made? the only reason given was "it would inaccurately represent kyub's place in the meta" but i don't see what's so bad about skill link and the other stuff. because of this i would like to request an explanation on why the council made this decision. thanks
 

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