CAP 8 CAP 8 - Concept Submissions

[Ellington]

Name: Dragonslayer
General Description: A pokémon with a typing/ability and movepool to effectively counter and force Dragon type threats out.

Justification: Dragons are running rampant in the current meta-game. Since Dragon types are only resisted by one type, steel, they can easily equip themselves with fire, fighting or ground moves to deal with otherwise viable counters. If there was a pokémon, however, which could safely counter the Dragon type and the usual secondary moves they have, the dragon type wouldn't be quite as dominant.
Explanation: The meta-game today is pretty much monopolized by Dragon and Steel types due to their great resistances/coverage, and this especially important for the Dragon type since there are few things which can actually withstand beatings from a DDMence for example. I am suggesting something akin to Magnezone, without nececcarily having to trap them.

 

[pkmn-taicho321]

-The "Anti-Sweep"-

Submission: This Pokemon excels at switching in, taking little or no damage from entry hazards, and stopping a sweep. It's not really a counter to anything, and has no real means of doing direct damage, but it is almost never OHKOed, and can support a team through it's expansive move-pool.

Justification: Monsters run amongst us! Seriously, DD Gyarados can out speed and OHKO just about anything, after two Dragon Dances. Scizor has made bullet punch a fearful attack, and Outrage Salamence is (excuse me) all the rage. So what the Metagame really needs is something that can take a few hits from the beasts of sweeping and make them retreat.

Explanation: We already have a few pokemon that we consider defensively monsterous, but few have the ability to really stand up to anything past a +3 boost. Entry hazards really put a damper on a good number of these pokemon, because even they don't like having 25% of their health taken away by a full 3 layered spikes set up. I believe it would greatly benifit our understanding of the game to see how people respond to failed sweeping atempts.

 

[zarator]

-The "Anti-Sweep"-

Submission: This Pokemon excels at switching in, taking little or no damage from entry hazards, and stopping a sweep. It's not really a counter to anything, and has no real means of doing direct damage, but it is almost never OHKOed, and can support a team through it's expansive move-pool.

Justification: Monsters run amongst us! Seriously, DD Gyarados can out speed and OHKO just about anything, after two Dragon Dances. Scizor has made bullet punch a fearful attack, and Outrage Salamence is (excuse me) all the rage. So what the Metagame really needs is something that can take a few hits from the beasts of sweeping and make them retreat.

Explanation: We already have a few pokemon that we consider defensively monsterous, but few have the ability to really stand up to anything past a +3 boost. Entry hazards really put a damper on a good number of these pokemon, because even they don't like having 25% of their health taken away by a full 3 layered spikes set up. I believe it would greatly benifit our understanding of the game to see how people respond to failed sweeping atempts.

If what are you talking about are stat-uppers in general, well:
1) Argonaut counters a lot of the most threatening ones, like for example said Gyarados.
2) If you let anything (and I say anything) get 3 stat boosts without having at least put it in range for revenge killing from passive dmg, priority move etc... well, you deserved the sweep

 

[Naxte]

-The "Anti-Sweep"-

Submission: This Pokemon excels at switching in, taking little or no damage from entry hazards, and stopping a sweep. It's not really a counter to anything, and has no real means of doing direct damage, but it is almost never OHKOed, and can support a team through it's expansive move-pool.

Justification: Monsters run amongst us! Seriously, DD Gyarados can out speed and OHKO just about anything, after two Dragon Dances. Scizor has made bullet punch a fearful attack, and Outrage Salamence is (excuse me) all the rage. So what the Metagame really needs is something that can take a few hits from the beasts of sweeping and make them retreat.

Explanation: We already have a few pokemon that we consider defensively monsterous, but few have the ability to really stand up to anything past a +3 boost. Entry hazards really put a damper on a good number of these pokemon, because even they don't like having 25% of their health taken away by a full 3 layered spikes set up. I believe it would greatly benifit our understanding of the game to see how people respond to failed sweeping atempts.

In addition to what Zarator said, the concept is very similar to Pokefan's:

Name: Stat-Up Counter

Description: A Pokemon that can counter or severely cripple many of the top stat-boosting threats.

Justification: There are many Pokemon that can sweep through most of a team if they get sufficient stat boosts through Calm Mind and Swords Dance. This Pokemon will be a focused counter to Pokemon like SD Scizor, CM Suicune, Etc. The goal of this Pokemon is to discourage such strategies.

Explanation: A supporting Pokemon that can steal, copy, or ignore stat boosts with great success. Should have rather low base stats, but a useful and rare ability like Unaware or Speed Boost and a large movepool with moves like Thunder Wave, Heart Swap, Yawn, Extremespeed etc. It basically nullifies or takes advantage of the many turns an opponent used to set up a perfect Pokemon to sweep a team. It is not completely useless outside of its purpose, however, because despite having low stats it does have a very large support movepool to annoy the enemy.

 

[pkmn-taicho321]

If what are you talking about are stat-uppers in general, well:
1) Argonaut counters a lot of the most threatening ones, like for example said Gyarados.
2) If you let anything (and I say anything) get 3 stat boosts without having at least put it in range for revenge killing from passive dmg, priority move etc... well, you deserved the sweep

Then what about a yache berry Salamence? How many teams have more than one pokemon with the move Ice Shard? and Gyarados? despite it's decent defenses how many Outrages can Argonaut take? And if played right what can stop a bullet punching Scizor after a Swords dance? not many things. Besides that unless you can OHKO it it could just roost of the damage. Argonaut is meant to counter. What I'm submiting is a wall.

 

[Mattman324]

Concept: Parasite
Description: A pokemon who can make good use of Power draining moves, such as Drain Punch, Giga Drain, and Leech Life (Probubly not the last one, though...)
Justification: Most pokemon are considered good just because they can heal themselves reliably; however, draining moves are considered bad. A pokemon who could use these boosts for personal gain would be interesting.
Explination: Blissy are never seen without wish or softboiled due to the healing effects of them and it's wallish nature. Perhaps a pokemon with (decent) offensive stats and (also decent) defensive stats could use these moves well. Typing would likely fall under Grass/Fighting, but a new move would likely be good for this pokemon. Also, drawing could vary, as there are no limits as to what this parasite looks like.

 

[pkmn-taicho321]

Also, I agree with zarator that you are not supposed to let them get 3 stat boosts without getting them to within revenging range. Were you stat-boosting at the time too?
Scizor: Swords Dance
Golem: Rock Polish
Scizor: Swords Dance
Golem: Rock Polish
Scizor: Swords Dance
Golem: Rock Polish
Scizor: Bullet paunch
Golem user: OMG HAX
(not accurate, but you get the idea.)

lol Swords Dance gives you +2 each time, so in reality you only really need two turns if you know how. Taunting Gyarados happens to be exceptional at getting those two DDs it needs to wipe out an entire team.

 

[Matthew]

lol Swords Dance gives you +2 each time, so in reality you only really need two turns if you know how. Taunting Gyarados happens to be exceptional at getting those two DDs it needs to wipe out an entire team.

This is completely wrong. Pokemon like Arghonaut and Celebi, the fourteenth and sixteenth most used pokemon in CAP, are perfect counters for your Gyarados. Celebi comes in resisting the normal Earthquake + Waterfall attacks Gyarados comes with. If Gyarados skimps on these moves to add in something like Bounce or Ice Fang just for Celebi, then it loses valuable coverage. So a team with Celebi will most likely always come out on top of Taunt 'Dos. Arghonaut's ability ignores stat ups, so all that time you spend Dragon Dancing is a waste when he comes in. Once again, the only way you can hit Argh is if you add in Bounce, but then a Steel-type (which is everywhere on the ladder) will come in and shrug off the hit like it is nothing. So I honestly don't see how Taunt DD 'Dos "wipes out entire teams"

 

[Princess_power]

For what it's worth:

Name: Sun Abuser

General Description: A Pokemon that complements a Sunny Day team

Explanation: The Pokemon would make Sunny Day teams a threat due to its ability, typing, offensive, or defensive benefits from Sun

Justification: Sun teams are rather limited when compared to the other weathers. Rain teams have a wide variety of Water types and even some non-Water types that benefits, such as Thunder users and ones with Dry Skin. Sand teams have the instant 50% Special Defense boost for Rock types, Leftovers negation, Sand Veil, and a variety of Rock, Ground, and Steel types to use. Even Hail has stalling Walrein and a Blizzard accuracy boost. Pokemon that benefit from Sun are mostly Grass and Fire types, and Solarbeam runs into the problem of Tyranitar and Abomasnow (or even a Rain Dance). This concept would be of a Pokemon that would benefit either defensively from Sun (due to the weakening of Water moves), could easily set up Sun, or be an offensive threat in Sun to make Sunny Day a more viable playstyle.

.. this was a major part of the idea I suggested

 

[Umbreon Dan]

I'm seeing a lot of duplicate ideas. :(

I agree with Lightning Storm. Many of the ideas on this last page have been somewhat less original and it seems many people are deciding against checking whether their idea has been posted before they post. Many people don't seem to have any experience with CAP and have posted concepts that have already been done. And with people like Xephyr just openly flaming, maybe it's time to close the thread?

 

[CarodanDaPokeman]

Concept: Knock-Back Team Searcher

Description: A pokemon that uses abilities that search the opponents team allowing the user to formulate a plan based uppon the knowledge gained by this pokemon's abilities.

Justification: By knowing what the opponent has for pokemon it is easy to overpower and force the opponent into submission quickly without loosing many of your own pokemon. Moves like Roar and Whirlwhind are often overlooked by meta-game players however these players seem to forget that these moves allow them to know as much as they can about their opponent.

 

[adman2]

.. this was a major part of the idea I suggested

I couldn't find your post with the search function, and before posting it, I searched for "sun" or "Sunny Day" with no matches. What page is your suggestion on?

If mine doesn't pass, I'd like to see something like the Parasite concept.

 

[Lightning Storm]

I agree with Lightning Storm. Many of the ideas on this last page have been somewhat less original and it seems many people are deciding against checking whether their idea has been posted before they post. Many people don't seem to have any experience with CAP and have posted concepts that have already been done. And with people like Xephyr just openly flaming, maybe it's time to close the thread?

I'd assume that it'd be a bit early for that, but it certainly does seem that the amount of good ideas is dwindling. maybe a few more days? Friday evening mayhaps?

 

[cyberzero]

Concept: Knock-Back Team Searcher

Description: A pokemon that uses abilities that search the opponents team allowing the user to formulate a plan based uppon the knowledge gained by this pokemon's abilities.

Justification: By knowing what the opponent has for pokemon it is easy to overpower and force the opponent into submission quickly without loosing many of your own pokemon. Moves like Roar and Whirlwhind are often overlooked by meta-game players however these players seem to forget that these moves allow them to know as much as they can about their opponent.

Kitsunoh.

Idea: Baton-Pass Life-Giver

Story behind this set:

My first set as a young third generation Netbattler was a slow-moving Baton-Pass team that rolled over OU teams very casually. I had to take a sudden brake from the game shortly after the 4th generation, and I came back to find that the metagame had sped up to the point where my old teams were practically unusable. Baton-Pass teams can be extremely hard to play nowadays, and even when they do work they are extremely fragile. We need a Baton-Passer that can do at least one of the following things:

1. Do some of the things that Smeargle can do, but be able to take a hit.

2. Considerably speed up stat-boosting, while not being able to do Smeargle stuff, and not be able to use it's own boosts. (Maybe something where the stat-boosts only work on a Pokemon that also knows Baton Pass.)

3. Something that can kill specific Baton-Pass killers (such as Scizor and Crobat).

Justification: Baton-Pass teams are extremly fun to play, and can broaden the amount of possible teams, which is always a good thing.

Let's hope that Baton-Pass teams return!

Baton Pass teams are extremely common nowadays, especially in CAP, which this is meant for. wdro's amazing discovery of DS Gliscor -> Metagross revolutionized Baton Pass. Gliscor can do some of the things that Smeargle does, take hits, survive against specific Baton Pass killers, etc. This is unecessary.

Concept: Parasite
Description: A pokemon who can make good use of Power draining moves, such as Drain Punch, Giga Drain, and Leech Life (Probubly not the last one, though...)
Justification: Most pokemon are considered good just because they can heal themselves reliably; however, draining moves are considered bad. A pokemon who could use these boosts for personal gain would be interesting.
Explination: Blissy are never seen without wish or softboiled due to the healing effects of them and it's wallish nature. Perhaps a pokemon with (decent) offensive stats and (also decent) defensive stats could use these moves well. Typing would likely fall under Grass/Fighting, but a new move would likely be good for this pokemon. Also, drawing could vary, as there are no limits as to what this parasite looks like.

Please read through the thread, Krow has already posted a concept just like this.

-The "Anti-Sweep"-

Submission: This Pokemon excels at switching in, taking little or no damage from entry hazards, and stopping a sweep. It's not really a counter to anything, and has no real means of doing direct damage, but it is almost never OHKOed, and can support a team through it's expansive move-pool.

Justification: Monsters run amongst us! Seriously, DD Gyarados can out speed and OHKO just about anything, after two Dragon Dances. Scizor has made bullet punch a fearful attack, and Outrage Salamence is (excuse me) all the rage. So what the Metagame really needs is something that can take a few hits from the beasts of sweeping and make them retreat.

Explanation: We already have a few pokemon that we consider defensively monsterous, but few have the ability to really stand up to anything past a +3 boost. Entry hazards really put a damper on a good number of these pokemon, because even they don't like having 25% of their health taken away by a full 3 layered spikes set up. I believe it would greatly benifit our understanding of the game to see how people respond to failed sweeping atempts.

If Arghonaut doesn't cut it, there is always Vaporeon.

Name: Dragonslayer
General Description: A pokémon with a typing/ability and movepool to effectively counter and force Dragon type threats out.

Justification: Dragons are running rampant in the current meta-game. Since Dragon types are only resisted by one type, steel, they can easily equip themselves with fire, fighting or ground moves to deal with otherwise viable counters. If there was a pokémon, however, which could safely counter the Dragon type and the usual secondary moves they have, the dragon type wouldn't be quite as dominant.
Explanation: The meta-game today is pretty much monopolized by Dragon and Steel types due to their great resistances/coverage, and this especially important for the Dragon type since there are few things which can actually withstand beatings from a DDMence for example. I am suggesting something akin to Magnezone, without nececcarily having to trap them.

Arghonaut does this just fine, thank you, sporting Unaware, Ice Punch and STAB Fighting moves.

 

[Calad]

Concept: Parasite
Description: A pokemon who can make good use of Power draining moves, such as Drain Punch, Giga Drain, and Leech Life (Probubly not the last one, though...)
Justification: Most pokemon are considered good just because they can heal themselves reliably; however, draining moves are considered bad. A pokemon who could use these boosts for personal gain would be interesting.
Explination: Blissy are never seen without wish or softboiled due to the healing effects of them and it's wallish nature. Perhaps a pokemon with (decent) offensive stats and (also decent) defensive stats could use these moves well. Typing would likely fall under Grass/Fighting, but a new move would likely be good for this pokemon. Also, drawing could vary, as there are no limits as to what this parasite looks like.

Krow has posted the same [or very similar] concept, earlier.

Also, you both copy my concept name from CAP7 contest poll. xD

 

[hydrolphin]

People really need to stop posting without reading this thread, or experiencing the CAP metagame. Most of the concepts have been one of the following:
A: Identical or nearly so to a concept already posted
B: Doing something that is already done by one of the CAPs
If you don't know enough about the actual CAPs... You shouldn't be posting a concept. So please don't complain if your concept is deleted. It was deleted for a reason that was stated in th OP. Or even better, don't post without reading BOTH THE OP AND THE ENTIRE THREAD. No one wants to dig through your posts. So don't post a concept without knowing NOTHING about CAP or not read ANY of the thread so far.

 

[Matthew]

Name: Leave a Legacy

Description: A pokemon, whether through a move or ability would allow to bring a single pokemon back to life.

Justification: In the game of pokemon we have always had that once a pokemon is KOed then it is KOed for good. I think that having a pokemon which would bring a pokemon back to the field after it fainted would help think of new and interesting ways to allow your pokemon to sweep / wall.

Explanation: By either an ability or move we create, as the pokemon which uses the move will faint and it will restore a pokemon to a certain percent. If we decide to go with an ability, the pokemon would faint first, then giving you the option to revive one pokemon, obviously these moves would fail if this pokemon is the last pokemon on your team.

Ok, since I didn't want to post a set that was already similar, I'll just edit Cyberzero's post in the quote to show my idea

 

[Princess_power]

I couldn't find your post with the search function, and before posting it, I searched for "sun" or "Sunny Day" with no matches. What page is your suggestion on?

If mine doesn't pass, I'd like to see something like the Parasite concept.

Concept: Tempest
General Description: A Pokemon which is not amazing on its own, but through use of abilities, moves, typing, etc, could become a serious threat or fantastic supporter for various weather-themed teams.
Justification: Weather based teams are nice, but the only common weather is Sandstorm; Hail based teams are generally limited to stall because of their lack of a "truly offensive"; sweeper; Rain teams are usually hyper offensive, and Sun teams are rare because they lack Pokes to fully abuse or benefit from them.
Explanation: I find any Poke that can use weather to excel at its role (Stallrein, Swift Swim Kingdra) extremely fun to play; it takes prediction and imagination to make a good team to support a certain weather. While creating such a Pokemon would be a bit different, it is a very open and variable concept. There are 4 types of weather currently, each with an empty niche that is screaming to be taken up. (Chlorophyll Fire, Offensive Hail, Stall Rain, Sandstorm abuser). Possible themes could include OU Perma-Sun/Rain, Hydration Tank, Hail Sweeper, Sandstorm Stat Boosts, etc. Moulding multiple themes together would provide a challenging and potentially enjoyable problem to overcome.

-I feel this may sound similar to Raverist's idea; I support his, but in my mind, I want this to be exclusively centered on the 4 varieties of weather.

Page 4; I kept the idea itself rather ambiguous, so it wouldn't be too specific for abillities, typing, etc., but a weather abuser or setter-upper was the idea.

@Gen. Empoleon/Cyberzero, do you mean something like a "reverse explosion?" That seems neat; I'd like to see that in the game. The "Parasite" and "Pivot Point" also looks pretty neat. So many creative minds...

 

[Tint]

I've been looking back through some of the past CAPs, and there is an idea that is always brought up. The CAP Dragon. I think we all deserve a break from making pokemon to work in the metagame, let's make a pokemon that makes the metagame work for it.

Name: CAP Offensive Force (a.k.a. CAPDragon)

General Description: A terrifying offensive pokemon that is in the likes of Salamence, Garchomp, etc.

Justicfication: A metagame is built around threats and ways to stop these threats. The past couple of CAPs have been focusing on niche roles and defense, while we haven't really made a dominant force in terms of offense. This can show us how we adapt to a threat like Chomp or Mence, and possibly change everyone's view of Uber or Overcentalizing.

Explanation: With all the long-gone talks of Garchomp being Uber because it changes the metagame to a very overcentalized group of counters, and new talks of Salamence heading in the same direction, I think that making a force like those, and being able to judge how severly our metagame changes, it will show us more insight into dominating pokemon, and perhaps change everyones "ban everything" or "unban everything" mentality.

 

[Solstice]

I've been looking back through some of the past CAPs, and there is an idea that is always brought up. The CAP Dragon. I think we all deserve a break from making pokemon to work in the metagame, let's make a pokemon that makes the metagame work for it.

Name: CAP Offensive Force (a.k.a. CAPDragon)

General Description: A terrifying offensive pokemon that is in the likes of Salamence, Garchomp, etc.

Justicfication: A metagame is built around threats and ways to stop these threats. The past couple of CAPs have been focusing on niche roles and defense, while we haven't really made a dominant force in terms of offense. This can show us how we adapt to a threat like Chomp or Mence, and possibly change everyone's view of Uber or Overcentalizing.

Explanation: With all the long-gone talks of Garchomp being Uber because it changes the metagame to a very overcentalized group of counters, and new talks of Salamence heading in the same direction, I think that making a force like those, and being able to judge how severly our metagame changes, it will show us more insight into dominating pokemon, and perhaps change everyones "ban everything" or "unban everything" mentality.

While you say a dominant force in offense in the past few CAP projects, only one of the 3 past CAPs has been a defensive Pokemon, Arghonaut. Both Kitsunoh and Stratagem are offensive. The way you explain your concept, you describe a late game sweeper but never actually mention it in your justification, description, or explanation. Do you intend for your concept to be used as such?

 

[Tint]

While you say a dominant force in offense in the past few CAP projects, only one of the 3 past CAPs has been a defensive Pokemon, Arghonaut. Both Kitsunoh and Stratagem are offensive. The way you explain your concept, you describe a late game sweeper but never actually mention it in your justification, description, or explanation. Do you intend for your concept to be used as such?

See my idea was less Kitsunoh and Stratagem, which are more like sweepers, and more like Salamence, which can come in early game, identify it's counters, and break a few walls, middle-game, start KOing weakend foes, or even late game sweep where the chances of a surviving counter being very slim. I was going to go into more detail, but then I thought that it would be too presice and put more restrictions into the actual making. I know that the people here are determining the best usage of a poke like this, and I want to leave a lot of power in their hands.

 

[Bass]

Stop suggesting perma weather related concepts. We deemed long ago, after a long period of testing, that perma rain/sun is broken.

 

[Veedrock]

Not to mention that it forces an ability:

• Specific Abilities are not allowed. This applies to existing abilities and new abilities. Do not attempt to circumvent this rule by mentioning specific battle effects that can only be achieved by the implementation of an ability.

I never realized how weird the word ability was until now.

Name: CAP Offensive Force (a.k.a. CAPDragon)

I really don't know what we will learn from creating a borderline-uber Pokémon. We can see how the metagame adapts (or, you know, completely falls apart), but we already see that with the loads of Pokémon that already fit that. Not to mention that if we overshoot (theorymon can only tell us so much) or it becomes too strong, we just wasted all of our efforts as it becomes banned. I can't tell whether or not you're specifying it's a dragon. You used them as your examples all through your submissions and then called the name CAPDragon. I'm going to presume that you did imply that, which is not allowed.

EDIT: Not to mention that you already submitted a concept earlier. You can only have one submission.

Concept: "Wall of Sand"

Eh, don't really know how this is still there but I'll just say that it's trying to direct the CAP too much. "Resist water/grass," "sandstream or sand veil," "deserty art." All a little too specific. And when you say becomes a good special wall under sandstorm, that automatically implies rock typing (and Tyranitar is already a special tank, what would make that concept any different?)

Name: Surprise Factor

I meant to comment on this one way sooner. I dislike this one heavily. One of the reasons I pray generation 5 is split from DPP (and as such ADV) is because many threats do have too many options. Sure, some things have standard sets that are run more often than others but those other options ARE there and ARE utilized to fuck over those that don't expect it. And even if you do expect it, you can only handle it so well because of the other million threats and their million different sets that you can't necessarily afford to give up. Not to mention the fact that even if that concept does have oh so many options (which everything has), that won't stop one specific set from being the standard and most used simply because it's the best. Everything has "other options" outside of standards, don't think that concept won't eventually have its own most used standard that overshadows those "other options."

In simple terms, teams are already stretched to cover every threat and their million sets; throwing in another pokemon to stretch things further isn't ideal or beneficial to the metagame.


And concerning EM's concept: as it was pointed out, most CAPs have utilized underused abilities that are good (just on bad pokemon). I really don't think we need a specific concept for it, and it also doesn't give much to work off of. After we determine ability, "then what?" It doesn't help that the ability polls come after typing, so what would we be basing those off of?

Only the first few submissions are any good imo. I wish I could think up something to submit, but I'm blank.

 

[zarator]

I really don't know what we will learn from creating a borderline-uber pokemon. We can see how the metagame adapts, but we already see that with the loads of pokemon that already fit that. Not to mention that if we overshoot or it becomes too strong, we just wasted all of our efforts as it becomes banned. I can't tell whether or not you're specifying it's a dragon. You used them as your examples all through your submissions and then called the name CAPDragon. I'm going to presume that you did imply that, which is not allowed.

I assume he was meaning not specifically a "dragon", but rather a 600BST Pokémon. However, I agree on Veedrock on the first point. Tyranitar, Metagross and Salamence are all here to prove us that a 600 BST can shape the metagame all by itself. Dragonite show us that a 600 BST can be outclassed. Garchomp proved us that a "dragon" can push it too far. So, by undertaking such a concept, we are only:
1) precluding any interesting ability due to the power of the sheer BST
2) greatly limiting the stat spread possibilities
3) risking to push it too far
At least, a concept revolving around a low BST Pokémon give us the chance to include those fantastic-almost-broken abilities like Simple, Speed Boost, Magic Guard and Arena Trap. What can we achieve with a high-BST Concept? Nothing more than what I actually listed

 

[cyberzero]

Alright everyone, time's up!
Concept Submissions are now closed. Concepts that are eligible will be in the next poll!

It would be appreciated if a mod would close this, thanks!