CAP 8 CAP 8 - Part 9 - Art Poll 2

[zarator]

Please read this all the way through. I think it includes things that many voters aren't considering (or at least aren't showing consideration for in their voting explanations). No offense to anyone and everyone who did vote based on these criteria, but I think a lot of people are neglecting some key issues. And no offense to any of the artists; most of these are better designs than existing pokemon.

I based my vote off the final stat spread of CAP 8, as well as this so-called "neglected ability" idea that seems to have devolved into an afterthought (resurfacing momentarily as an argument for no secondary ability). Only two of these submissions look like they can run Shield Dust and Static: Atyroki and CyzirVisheen.

Dustox and Venemoth have Shield Dust because they appear to have a way of dispelling dust into the air around them via their wings. This is tough for a non-bug or poison pokemon to do, so we'll have to try really hard to make it visually possible (creating pokemon isn't just about new typing and stats. The matching picture makes the escapism part fun, too). That being said, I voted for Atyroki.

Atyroki's design is not only a fresh course for CAP (it destroys everything you've ever known about electric pokemon), being cute and whatnot, but it also fits the stat spread perfectly (appearance-wise) and has the fluffy aspect that makes Shield Dust obvious and makes Static suddenly a very literal ability, more so even than the current pokemon with Static. I mean, who doesn't think of shuffling their socks against the carpet then zapping someone when they see that fluff? That's right. No one.

Cyzir's electric Cerberus doesn't really look like it can run Static because, since it's made out of clouds and lightning, it doesn't even look like it can be hit by physical attacks, let alone boast a base 118 defense stat. Even Altaria and the Ghosts have some semblance of physical-ness about them, so unless there's something I'm missing and there is something physically present (like, under the clouds or something) with this design, I don't see it working.

If I were to consider only what I think looks like the coolest electric/dragon, it would be Cartoons!'s by far (great work, btw); however, I could never see it being able to pull off Shield Dust or having a base 60 Attack (see Here and Here for examples of this kind of immense physical power). Regi DS's, Wyverii's, and pkmn-taicho321's also look like capable or even primarily physical attackers, so I couldn't see them working.

KoA's is a cool electric-gyarados thing, but I can't see it running Shield Dust out of its beard, and it also looks physical (similar to Gyarados).

DJD's looks super awesome and would have fit a fast, special sweeper-type pokemon perfectly, but it doesn't really look physically bulky at all. And don't say Celebi makes this point null. It's the Gen 2 small, cute 100s stats legendary pokemon (see also: Mew, Jirachi, and Shaymin), so its stats can be and are completely unrelated to its appearance. Every other pokemon fits its stats and abilities, appearance-wise, and DJD's design simply does not fit these stats. Nor does it have a visible way to pull off Shield Dust.

Ixfalia's is also really cool, but again, I don't see Shield Dust or it being particularly defensive. Same story with Zantimonious.

Basically, this pokemon's design has to tie in perfectly with everything already established. It has to look like the pokemon we've created, and Atyroki's does that. It's got electric/dragon down. It looks defensively biased with its fat-ish, non-threatening appearance. It looks like a special attacker with its lack of fists/fangs/whatever. It looks slow (but not that slow), so, coupled with the previous two reasons, it can conceivably run 108/60/118/112/70/80 stats. Finally, it looks like it can conceivably have Shield Dust and Static as abilities thanks to its fluffy cloudy stuff. It's like it was meant to be.

Please don't make a choice based on what looks awesome or is drawn the best. This pokemon has to fit its description.

Just another critic to your (awful) reasoning. Shield Dust is a free translation. The original Japanese name is "Moth Scales". Do you think your arguments about something "fitting" or not the ability still holds?

Secondary, there is A LOT of Pokémon which does not reflect their own stats. And we do not even have to pick the "legendary 100-all pixies" to prove this. Steelix has less attack than Mothim. Can you justify this?

We always say "Don't judge competitive issues based on flavor". But the reverse is true, too. Don't judge flavor with competitive reasons. It is simply insulting to the artist the very same way bashing flavor in stat spread poll would be to stat-makers. Do not come here to show you are the highest Pokémon authotity or everything else. You simply aren't, and your argument can be ripped apart in less than half the words you needed to build it (just to prove how worth it was)

------------------------------------

Back to the art poll, DJD appealed me the most from the begininning, but Cyzir would be a great second choice in case DJD does not make it.

@Objection: Latias anyone?

 

[Objection]

@Objection: Latias anyone?

Latias is pink, not red. The shiny version is orange if I recall correctly.

 

[Not Scicky]

I'd call Latias red actually =/

As for all this "fitting the stat spread" kinda thing, I appreciate it, I really do, but this is art, and chances are, you're not going to change someones opinion by explaining yours =/

As for the people who are arguing saying that their reasoning is terrible, calm down, really, it's not like we're arguing about stats or typing or something ACTUALLY IMPORTANT ._.

Another thing, just because some pokemon's stats don't make sense, doesn't mean it isn't retarded.

 

[bpblu]

I'd call Latias red actually =/

As for all this "fitting the stat spread" kinda thing, I appreciate it, I really do, but this is art, and chances are, you're not going to change someones opinion by explaining yours =/

As for the people who are arguing saying that their reasoning is terrible, calm down, really, it's not like we're arguing about stats or typing or something ACTUALLY IMPORTANT ._.

Another thing, just because some pokemon's stats don't make sense, doesn't mean it isn't retarded.

Very true. C'mon people, it's art... not an ability/stat spread/typing poll. It comes down to simply "I like this artwork best, that's my decision." When it comes down to artwork, it's VERY difficult to persuade somebody else by explaining your opinion. Just judge on which one you like best and leave it at that.

Speaking of which, once more I find myself torn between a few choices. Cyzir was the one I ended up voting on. All of the designs are great, though and every one of these people should be proud of their work.

 

[Ffancrzy]

When it came down to it, my decision was between KoA, DJD, pkmn-, and Cartoons!

KoA- Had a great concept. A serpentine thunder dragon was different than the others and kept a bulky design. The thunder beard was what in my mind pushed it this far. However, it was not my favorite.

pkmn- A mix between Typhlosion and Ampharos. His was the first submission to catch my eye, and one of the front runners. I liked his original color scheme a bit better. It also is slightly bulky. However this was not my favorite either.

The final 2:

DJD: This design just wowed me. When I first saw this sketch I was blown away. The salamander body was stupendous. The Electric spikes down the back were amazing. However 3 things kept this from my vote. I'm not a huge fan of the color scheme, It isn't that bulky, and the claws forward was not my favorite variation. I really wanted this to win( and partially hope I get out voted), but in a race as close as this, the best has got to win.

which leaves

Cartoons! - The winner in my book. His submission is completely original. His supporting material is great. The color scheme doesn't try to CRAM electric down your throat. The signs of electricity and Dragon are subtle yet strong. His Bulky and is oozing with flavor. He gets my vote.

 

[Korski]

Originally Posted by Fat zarator
Just another critic to your (awful) reasoning. Shield Dust is a free translation. The original Japanese name is "Moth Scales". Do you think your arguments about something "fitting" or not the ability still holds?

Well, the ability is called "Shield Dust" in English, not "Moth Scales," so yeah, I do. And this hostility towards my post is out of control. Sorry I laid out my opinion like that, you know, thought out, explained, and mentioning everyone's designs and applying my own personal voting criteria to them all fairly; it must have come off as preachy and offensive:

It is simply insulting to the artist the very same way bashing flavor in stat spread poll would be to stat-makers. Do not come here to show you are the highest Pokémon authotity or everything else. You simply aren't, and your argument can be ripped apart in less than half the words you needed to build it (just to prove how worth it was)

Oh wait, that's your post. Quote me regarding how I think I'm the ultimate authority on pokemon. I'm new to Smogon, you can see that, so don't run around claiming I think I'm smarter than everyone else. Easy target, sounds like. Also quote the part where you ripped apart my argument. You gave me the Japanese definition for Shield Dust (thanks, I guess) and compared Steelix's stats to Mothim's. That comparison doesn't even apply to my argument, as I'm not comparing any pokemon to any other. A better argument would be something like "why does Bastiodon have such bad defense stats when it looks like a shield?" But that isn't a good argument at all, because Bastiodon does have good defenses because the people who made Bastiodon thought it would be entirely believable that a shield-like pokemon would have giant defensive stats. It doesn't have giant offensive stats because that wouldn't look right, just like a dragon with claws/fangs/fists wouldn't have an attack stat of 60, IN MY OPINION. There, I made it big so you can see it. It simply doesn't look right to me.

Okay, I get the flavor vs. competitive thing, but I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. They should both have influence on decisions like these, because pokemon is still an rpg (even if CAP isn't part of it, it should still try to resemble it, right?) and it still relies on solid characters to make it work. By the "this is flavor only" logic, I could have submitted this for my CAP design because it's great art. To say it doesn't look enough like a pokemon is the same reasoning behind you saying my stat-fitting argument is invalid or wrong.

 

[zarator]

Well, the ability is called "Shield Dust" in English, not "Moth Scales," so yeah, I do. And this hostility towards my post is out of control. Sorry I laid out my opinion like that, you know, thought out, explained, and mentioning everyone's designs and applying my own personal voting criteria to them all fairly; it must have come off as preachy and offensive

The reason why it sounded quite "offensive", even if you didnt mean to (which I honestly believe - I simply think you should have thought out your post a bit more), is that you talk as if people have thrown away their vote without any sort of thought. Which is kind of disappointing to some people. And about the ability's name, yes, the original meaning is important. At least, if you really want to build a critic meaning-based like you did you can't base it off a translation. It would be as if you would have deeply analyzed a poem's content reading a translation. Do you find it consistent? It simply isn't.

Oh wait, that's your post. Quote me regarding how I think I'm the ultimate authority on pokemon. I'm new to Smogon, you can see that, so don't run around claiming I think I'm smarter than everyone else. Easy target, sounds like. Also quote the part where you ripped apart my argument. You gave me the Japanese definition for Shield Dust (thanks, I guess) and compared Steelix's stats to Mothim's. That comparison doesn't even apply to my argument, as I'm not comparing any pokemon to any other. A better argument would be something like "why does Bastiodon have such bad defense stats when it looks like a shield?" But that isn't a good argument at all, because Bastiodon does have good defenses because the people who made Bastiodon thought it would be entirely believable that a shield-like pokemon would have giant defensive stats. It doesn't have giant offensive stats because that wouldn't look right, just like a dragon with claws/fangs/fists wouldn't have an attack stat of 60, IN MY OPINION. There, I made it big so you can see it. It simply doesn't look right to me.

You ask how I should have ripped your argument apart. Ok, let me explain:
1)A lot of your argument revolves around your perfect understanding of Shield Dust meaning. This is wrong. When you consider an ability (or a move) you must go through its original meaning. Why Sucker Punch has been given to a lot of punch-less Pokémon? Because its original meaning is "Ambush". And we gave it to our CAPs following this logic. So... yes, your argument does not hold. So, if you like, I "ripped it apart"
2)You bitched a lot about stats. Well, As I proved you, art and stats does not have to go toe-to-toe like you seem to think. I brought an example, but the Pokédex is full of them. Basing your argument around such an issue is pretty pointless. So, if you like, I "ripped it apart" too.

To sum this up: No, art does not have to fit the description. Not, at least, as strictly as you might suppose.

Oh, and I forgot. In my opinion you are all mean bastards. Does saying "In my opinion" damp or modify so much the meaning or the strenght of the precedent phrase?

Okay, I get the flavor vs. competitive thing, but I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. They should both have influence on decisions like these, because pokemon is still an rpg (even if CAP isn't part of it, it should still try to resemble it, right?) and it still relies on solid characters to make it work. By the "this is flavor only" logic, I could have submitted this for my CAP design because it's great art. To say it doesn't look enough like a pokemon is the same reasoning behind you saying my stat-fitting argument is invalid or wrong.

1) yes, they are mutually exclusive. Haven't you read all the flaming thrown off people hopelessly trying to remind flavor in concept, type, stat and ability polls? Competitive is competitive. Flavor is flavor. Deal with it.
2) No, Pokémon is not a RPG. Not here is Smogon. If you look at Pokémon this way (and I can't really see how Shoddy reminds of a RPG), there still is... uhm... Serebii.net?
3)I didnt say your point is irrelevant. But it is not as strict as you pretend it to be.

 

[Korski]

Originally Posted by Fat zarator
The reason why it sounded quite "offensive", even if you didnt mean to (which I honestly believe - I simply think you should have thought out your post a bit more), is that you talk as if people have thrown away their vote without any sort of thought. Which is kind of disappointing to some people. And about the ability's name, yes, the original meaning is important. At least, if you really want to build a critic meaning-based like you did you can't base it off a translation. It would be as if you would have deeply analyzed a poem's content reading a translation. Do you find it consistent? It simply isn't.

I tried to make it clear that I wasn't insulting anyone in particular or everyone in general in my original post, but I guess that didn't come through in the "no offense to anyone" part of the post. Regarding the "Moth Scales" thing: was the plan to just clone the ability and rename it? Rough Skin means "Sharkskin" in Japanese, and it was a serious contender for both abilities, despite this CAP not having anything to do with sharks, but no one ever mentioned renaming it. Sorry. My bad on the missing information, there.

You ask how I should have ripped your argument apart. Ok, let me explain:
1)A lot of your argument revolves around your perfect understanding of Shield Dust meaning. This is wrong. When you consider an ability (or a move) you must go through its original meaning. Why Sucker Punch has been given to a lot of punch-less Pokémon? Because its original meaning is "Ambush". And we gave it to our CAPs following this logic. So... yes, your argument does not hold. So, if you like, I "ripped it apart"
2)You bitched a lot about stats. Well, As I proved you, art and stats does not have to go toe-to-toe like you seem to think. I brought an example, but the Pokédex is full of them. Basing your argument around such an issue is pretty pointless. So, if you like, I "ripped it apart" too.

To sum this up: No, art does not have to fit the description. Not, at least, as strictly as you might suppose.

Oh, and I forgot. In my opinion you are all mean bastards. Does saying "In my opinion" damp or modify so much the meaning or the strenght of the precedent phrase?

Alright, we'll have to rename Shield Dust for any of these designs to work. Got it. Issue closed.

I don't think you proved how the pokedex is filled with examples of how stats don't match pictures. You mentioned Mothim's base 94 Atk, which I can believe it has when I look at it and considering that its only physical moves are U-turn, Thief, Tackle, Return, Frustration, Facade, Giga Impact, and Aerial Ace, all moves that require nothing more than ramming itself into the opponent or, in Thief's case, sneaking around or whatever (it's a weak attack), so its relatively unassuming appearance is justifiable with its higher attack stat. It's right there with Sneasel in terms of physical power and has roughly the same height and weight, so where Sneasel uses its claws to attack, Mothim uses its body. Do you see where I'm going with this? It's conceivable that Mothim has a base 94 Atk, despite its lack of claws/fangs/fists, because its physical attacks don't require them. Everything comes together (stats, appearance, abilities, movepool) in the end, to make a believable pokemon. So yeah, the more physically impressive CAP designs can run 60 Atk, but they would have to make up for that somewhere else (movepool or otherwise) to make it work for me.

If the art doesn't have to reflect the stats, why did we bother giving this guy any attack stats at all? Why didn't we just dump all 60 into other stats to make it better? This thing is guaranteed to be a special attacker 99% of the time, so if the pokemon doesn't have to look like its stats suggest, then we don't need those 60 stat points there. Every stat, again, in my opinion, should be reflected somewhere in the pokemon's design, whether it be appearance, movepool, or whatever. It's a consistency thing. Sorry if I'm being anal about it; I just like when everything fits together perfectly, like a puzzle.

And the large IMO in my previous post was because it looked like you were putting words in my mouth and trying to make it look like I was presenting my opinions as anything but. I wasn't trying to soften anything; I stand behind my points. I was just trying to make it clear that I'm giving my opinion, not facts, and to avoid any such confusion in the future.

1) yes, they are mutually exclusive. Haven't you read all the flaming thrown off people hopelessly trying to remind flavor in concept, type, stat and ability polls? Competitive is competitive. Flavor is flavor. Deal with it.
2) No, Pokémon is not a RPG. Not here is Smogon. If you look at Pokémon this way (and I can't really see how Shoddy reminds of a RPG), there still is... uhm... Serebii.net?
3)I didnt say your point is irrelevant. But it is not as strict as you pretend it to be.

1) I don't really understand this first point, but I'll try to answer what I think it's saying. I guess I'm just not convinced. People were saying flavor shouldn't be an issue in those polls because that flavor was based on speculation of future details or things that hadn't been decided on yet. My flavor is based on things that are already solidified with CAP (stats, mainly), so I don't think it warrants the same criticism. Since we're building this pokemon from the ground up, you have to stack every part of it so that it fits and balances, or it all falls apart.

2) So we're not creating a pokemon, we're creating a Shoddy Battle character. Okay, then we can skip the pokedex entry, height, egg group, and which moves are level up/tm/hm/tutor/egg moves parts of CAP because they don't apply to Shoddy Battle (weight's still an issue, I guess, for Grass Knot).

3) see building metaphor from point 1. Those plans oughta be pretty strict for it to stand.

EDIT: sorry about my long posts. I'm really wordy. It's a problem.

 

[GTS]

Just going to say that Latias is definitely red...

 

[cyberzero]

Please do not criticize others' reasoning for their votes.

Guys, this is an art poll. People can base their votes on multiple things. If someone is worried about Stats not matching up with the art, that's just as fine as if someone likes the concept of the art, or the art quality itself, or anything else. It's a poll. We're here to have fun, please don't flame or make a post intended to directly or indirectly do so. This will lead to a warning PM and infractions sent. If anyone is being the victim of a problem, please PM me the details and I will investigate it, but please don't fight back or else a thread like this will become utter chaos, let alone the effects an argument would have on a competitively focused thread.

 

[Illithian-Z]

I though Cyzir & Zanti had the best ones, and (I'm going to get bashed for this, aren't I) I thought both of them fit a bulky special attacker. I liked Zanti's a lot and it fit the bulky concept perfectly with the whole iron armor thing, and imo it was quite original. Still, I loved Cyzir's enough to just go with it.

Cyzir got my vote. I thought KoA's was good, but I didn't like the beard. Sorry Cartoons, but unlike everyone else (you have tons of other fans), I didn't really like yours. Just didn't like the concept. You'll probably win this poll, and I'll be happy whichever way it goes.

 

[Darkflagrance]

I tried to make it clear that I wasn't insulting anyone in particular or everyone in general in my original post, but I guess that didn't come through in the "no offense to anyone" part of the post. Regarding the "Moth Scales" thing: was the plan to just clone the ability and rename it? Rough Skin means "Sharkskin" in Japanese, and it was a serious contender for both abilities, despite this CAP not having anything to do with sharks, but no one ever mentioned renaming it. Sorry. My bad on the missing information, there.

Alright, we'll have to rename Shield Dust for any of these designs to work. Got it. Issue closed.

I don't think you proved how the pokedex is filled with examples of how stats don't match pictures. You mentioned Mothim's base 94 Atk, which I can believe it has when I look at it and considering that its only physical moves are U-turn, Thief, Tackle, Return, Frustration, Facade, Giga Impact, and Aerial Ace, all moves that require nothing more than ramming itself into the opponent or, in Thief's case, sneaking around or whatever (it's a weak attack), so its relatively unassuming appearance is justifiable with its higher attack stat. It's right there with Sneasel in terms of physical power and has roughly the same height and weight, so where Sneasel uses its claws to attack, Mothim uses its body. Do you see where I'm going with this? It's conceivable that Mothim has a base 94 Atk, despite its lack of claws/fangs/fists, because its physical attacks don't require them. Everything comes together (stats, appearance, abilities, movepool) in the end, to make a believable pokemon. So yeah, the more physically impressive CAP designs can run 60 Atk, but they would have to make up for that somewhere else (movepool or otherwise) to make it work for me.

If the art doesn't have to reflect the stats, why did we bother giving this guy any attack stats at all? Why didn't we just dump all 60 into other stats to make it better? This thing is guaranteed to be a special attacker 99% of the time, so if the pokemon doesn't have to look like its stats suggest, then we don't need those 60 stat points there. Every stat, again, in my opinion, should be reflected somewhere in the pokemon's design, whether it be appearance, movepool, or whatever. It's a consistency thing. Sorry if I'm being anal about it; I just like when everything fits together perfectly, like a puzzle.

And the large IMO in my previous post was because it looked like you were putting words in my mouth and trying to make it look like I was presenting my opinions as anything but. I wasn't trying to soften anything; I stand behind my points. I was just trying to make it clear that I'm giving my opinion, not facts, and to avoid any such confusion in the future.

1) I don't really understand this first point, but I'll try to answer what I think it's saying. I guess I'm just not convinced. People were saying flavor shouldn't be an issue in those polls because that flavor was based on speculation of future details or things that hadn't been decided on yet. My flavor is based on things that are already solidified with CAP (stats, mainly), so I don't think it warrants the same criticism. Since we're building this pokemon from the ground up, you have to stack every part of it so that it fits and balances, or it all falls apart.

2) So we're not creating a pokemon, we're creating a Shoddy Battle character. Okay, then we can skip the pokedex entry, height, egg group, and which moves are level up/tm/hm/tutor/egg moves parts of CAP because they don't apply to Shoddy Battle (weight's still an issue, I guess, for Grass Knot).

3) see building metaphor from point 1. Those plans oughta be pretty strict for it to stand.

EDIT: sorry about my long posts. I'm really wordy. It's a problem.

In theory, the art poll could be competitive because it could determine things like elemental Punches and Fangs.

 

[Scepticallistic]

In theory, the art poll could be competitive because it could determine things like elemental Punches and Fangs.

No, the art has no bearing on what moves it can learn. That's flavor based and has no weight at all. They can give a ball elemental punches and fangs if they wanted to.

Supported Cartoons! all the way. His art always has this energy to it, not like some of Sugimori's stock-art.

 

[sonickid01]

I voted CyzirVisheen's design.

All of them pwn, and I can especially see Atyroki's and Cartoon's as a Pokemon, but the ability is Shield Dust. IMO, Cyzir fits that best.

Out of all of them that were there, Blu's could have worked well for Shield Dust but it wasn't picked. Meh.

 

[GTS]

After voting, I realize I really like Regi DS, but I am satisfied with my vote.

 

[Korski]

Originally Posted by Fat Scepticallistic
No, the art has no bearing on what moves it can learn. That's flavor based and has no weight at all. They can give a ball elemental punches and fangs if they wanted to.

Why?

Would it be okay if Electrode had Thunder Punch? Or if Octillery had Ice Fang? Of course not, because the art doesn't support it. I mean, if the art means so little to this process, why not just make it a large yellow square and save everybody some time? It's like flavor is the Plague or something.

 

[Magmortified]

Would it be okay if Electrode had Thunder Punch? Or if Octillery had Ice Fang? Of course not, because the art doesn't support it. I mean, if the art means so little to this process, why not just make it a large yellow square and save everybody some time? It's like flavor is the Plague or something.

Yeah, it'd be fine, so long as the moves were needed competitively.

Art serves its own purpose in CAP. Frankly, a yellow square does not look good to newcomers to this project thinking, "Create a Pokemon? I'll try it." Art will usually help determine what happens the second afterwards: "Oh, what? A yellow square? That's bullshit. I'm leaving." Or, "Oh god, that Pokemon looks so cool! Must play!" Art is a lot of the public relations face of CAP. People like looking at unique Pokemon designs, so if they come for the eyecandy and stay to play, that's fine.

But advertising doesn't make the products. While the art is nice to look at, even as a regular I wouldn't stand for staring at a yellow square, and draws people in, it has no competitive bearing. CAP is first and foremost a competitive project; art doesn't contribute to that, but it has its own job.

I might add that it's proven fantastic at being art. :O

Cartoons! takes it though. It does the "big and badass" thing very well. I think it's time we had a Dragon that looked a little smug. :D

 

[cyberzero]

Why?

Would it be okay if Electrode had Thunder Punch? Or if Octillery had Ice Fang? Of course not, because the art doesn't support it. I mean, if the art means so little to this process, why not just make it a large yellow square and save everybody some time? It's like flavor is the Plague or something.

Do not bring up flavor vs. competitive arguments.

This is getting extremely off-topic. If it wasn't for the amount of publicity CAP gets for art and flavor, it would not be necessary and we would gladly take your advice. Unfortunately, there are no set laws in the world of Pokemon and we would like to keep it that way. Art does not govern what moves a Pokemon would seem to get and you cannot make sense of stats or movepool with art. Of course, there are circumstances that do make sense, but this is a competitive Pokemon project. If we feel that the competitive value of ThunderPunch is more than that of Thunder Fang, we will allow the first one no matter what the art is, as we showed in the previous CAP project. Please do not bring this up again as it has been established countless times that, despite flavor being important, it does not affect competitive aspects.


This poll is closed. Please continue on to vote in Art Poll 3!

 

[Umbreon Dan]

I'm just going to quote Skarmory's Pokedex entry:

Despite being clad entirely in iron-hard armor, it flies at speeds over 180 mph.

Skarmory's base Speed is 70. Even Game Freak is inconsistent sometimes, and they actually care.

Also, all of the following Pokemon learn Thunderpunch: