Remove Reflect
Remove Earth Power
Remove Earth Power
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CAP Updates: Tomohawk Discussion--COMPLETE
- Thread starter reachzero
- Start date
- Status
Remove Reflect
Remove Earth Power
I wont be the one to bash people's opinions, but idealy a balanced Flying/Fighting type should not be able to check Offensive Electric types, Poison types, Mega Metagross and Mega Crucibelle as efficiently as Tomo currently does.
Reflect is busted.
Remove Earth Power
I wont be the one to bash people's opinions, but idealy a balanced Flying/Fighting type should not be able to check Offensive Electric types, Poison types, Mega Metagross and Mega Crucibelle as efficiently as Tomo currently does.
Reflect is busted.
Remove Reflect
Remove Earth Power
Remove Earth Power
Funbot28
Banned deucer.
Remove Reflect
Retain Earth Power
One of these has to go, but imo Reflect Tomo is the spawn of the devil and deserves to be banished to the shadow realm (even tho I use CAP stall a lot). I dont see that much of an issue with Earth Power but understand the sentiments of wanting it gone.
Retain Earth Power
One of these has to go, but imo Reflect Tomo is the spawn of the devil and deserves to be banished to the shadow realm (even tho I use CAP stall a lot). I dont see that much of an issue with Earth Power but understand the sentiments of wanting it gone.
Remove Reflect
Retain Earth Power
Wasn't too sure what to choose regarding Reflect but it most likely won't be staying anyway based on the poll at the moment.
Why people overwhelmingly want to get rid of Earth Power is very surprising to me for exactly the same reasons as sparktrain and jas have pointed out in this thread.
Retain Earth Power
Wasn't too sure what to choose regarding Reflect but it most likely won't be staying anyway based on the poll at the moment.
Why people overwhelmingly want to get rid of Earth Power is very surprising to me for exactly the same reasons as sparktrain and jas have pointed out in this thread.
Remove Reflect
Remove Earth Power
Remove Earth Power
Remove Reflect
Remove Earth Power
Remove Earth Power
Retain Reflect
Remove Earth Power
I think Reflect can be replicated with similar, Tomohawk specific options that we can discuss later, but I don't think it's that huge a force. Hidden Power Ground is still acceptably strong on Offensive Hawk, but won't ever be considered over STAB on defensive Hawk like EP currently is.
Remove Earth Power
I think Reflect can be replicated with similar, Tomohawk specific options that we can discuss later, but I don't think it's that huge a force. Hidden Power Ground is still acceptably strong on Offensive Hawk, but won't ever be considered over STAB on defensive Hawk like EP currently is.
Remove Reflect
Remove Earth Power
Remove Earth Power
Retain Reflect
Remove Earth Power
Remove Earth Power
Retain Reflect
Remove Earth Power
Remove Earth Power
Time is up! At the close of the poll, here are the results:
Reflect: 30-12, in favor of Remove
Earth Power: 29-13, in favor of Remove
This means that both Reflect and Earth Power will be removed from Tomohawk.
This moves us to the next next phase of discussion: are there any competitive moves that we want to add to Tomohawk? I personally feel that Tomohawk already has a lot of powerful, competitive options, and does not "need" anything more. I haven't really considered all the possibilities, however. At the end of the discussion phase, we will poll whether Tomohawk should receive any competitive moves in this update, or only consistency moves.
Reflect: 30-12, in favor of Remove
Earth Power: 29-13, in favor of Remove
This means that both Reflect and Earth Power will be removed from Tomohawk.
This moves us to the next next phase of discussion: are there any competitive moves that we want to add to Tomohawk? I personally feel that Tomohawk already has a lot of powerful, competitive options, and does not "need" anything more. I haven't really considered all the possibilities, however. At the end of the discussion phase, we will poll whether Tomohawk should receive any competitive moves in this update, or only consistency moves.
As far as Competitive Moves, with the removal of Reflect now canonized I would suggest Feather Dance as a replacement for the functionality of Reflect. FeatherDance does not synergize as well as Reflect did with Haze (this is a good thing, in context), however it does provide similar physically defensive functionality and cuts into the momentum of Dragon Dance sweepers particularly. It is a more restrained version of the same functionality in turning around opposing setup.
One other move that was discussed during the inital polls but did not make it on Tomohawk is Circle Throw. Tomohawk already has Whirlwind so it can indeed already phaze, but Prankster Whirlwind is, err, -5 priority so it hardly sees use. Circle Throw would give Tomohawk an option to break Sashes while phazing.
I think these two moves are appropriate to replicate Tomohawk's functionality in a more balanced way, and to improve a strategy it had access to but did not previously employ given the overwhelming strength of its other options.
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How Haze-Reflect Hawk worked:
T1: Switch into Stat-Up mon as it Stats Up.
T2: Haze, take eh damage.
T3: Set up Reflect, take lol damage or watch the opponent switch.
T4: Roost while your opponent switches or is rendered ineffective.
T5: You have 3 Reflect turns left, do whatever.
How Haze-Feather Dance Hawk works:
T1: Switch into Stat-Up mon as it Stats Up.
T2: Haze, take eh damage.
T3: FeatherDance to further weaken or Roost to get back health. Against SD users Feather Dance will cancel out. Against DDers they net +1Spe -1Atk.
There are no Reflect turns, state of play is basically neutral and opponent has to switch if it can't address Haze/FD Hawk, however the next threat does not start out dealing with Reflect protecting the entire team and its potential switchins.
Tomohawk must then use Feather Dance each turn to replicate any new switchin starting with reduced Attack, and any turn Tomohawk is using Feather Dance is a turn it is not attacking or switching to something more directly threatening. Contrast Reflect where Air Slash (or Earth Power) became a no brainer option because Reflect would be in effect regardless of opponent's switch or stay.
Used with a concrete example, you have to leave MMeta with -2 Attack before leaving the field to net the same effect for a switch. With Reflect MMeta was nerfed against the entire team for those 3 turns and not just trying to overcome Tomohawk itself. Tomo could actually switch out and back in against MMeta with Reflect still up in that timeframe and repeat the process.
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I'm Disallowing Featherdance. Knowing what we know now, it's too powerful. Yes, the mechanics work differently than Reflect. However, in some situations, such as the matchup with Z Fly Salamence, etc, Featherdance actually allows Tomohawk to win much more consistently. Let's not repeat that situation, or waste time discussing it.
I'm more open to listen regarding Noble Roar, though I'm a bit skeptical.
I'm more open to listen regarding Noble Roar, though I'm a bit skeptical.
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