[COMPLETED] Kingdra

We should either slash Focus Energy + Scope Lens first on the first set or make a separate set for it. Focus Energy + Sniper + Scope Lens means you crit 100% of the time and your crits do 2.25% of the original damage, meaning it's an even bigger boost than Nasty Plot. Not only this, but you can spam Draco Meteor freely after a Focus Energy, as the SpA drops are nullified by the crits that will always occur.
Scope Lens increases crit chance by 1 stage, and Focus Energy increases by 2 stages, making 3 stages combined. This is the table:

Stage | Chance of critical hit
1 | 6.25%
2 | 12.5%
3 | 25%
4 | 33.3%
5 | 50%

Draco Meteor is a regular move at 1 stage 1. An increase to stage 3 only makes it 33.3% and even if you can boost it past stage 5, the crit chance is maxed at 50%.

Where are you getting your information?
 

alexwolf

lurks in the shadows
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Crits mechanics have changed darkie. Check the Battle Mechanics thread for more info, but basically at 3 stage you have a 100% chance to land a critical.
Sniper doesnt boost crit ratio, just powers up crits. I think you want Super Luck~
I meant to say that the crits are stronger thanks to Sniper.
 

Shroomisaur

Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.
Scope Lens increases crit chance by 1 stage, and Focus Energy increases by 2 stages, making 3 stages combined. This is the table:

Stage | Chance of critical hit
1 | 6.25%
2 | 12.5%
3 | 25%
4 | 33.3%
5 | 50%

Draco Meteor is a regular move at 1 stage 1. An increase to stage 3 only makes it 33.3% and even if you can boost it past stage 5, the crit chance is maxed at 50%.

Where are you getting your information?
Very early on Farfetch'd was found to have a 100% crit rate with Slash while holding a Stick, and the Battle Mechanics research thread has found that the crit stages have been changed to this:
1 | 6.25%
2 | ~12.5% (most likely)
3 | 50%
4 | 100%

I think it's a pretty interesting buff to Pokemon that specialize in crits to make up for the reduced multiplier. A Kingdra with Scope Lens (+1 stage) and Focus Energy (+2 stages) would have a 100% crit rate, and with Sniper, each crit would deal 2.25x damage. The best part about this on Kingdra is that crits ignore your stat drops, so Draco Meteor would still be dealing 2.25x damage even at -6 SpA.
 
Very early on Farfetch'd was found to have a 100% crit rate with Slash while holding a Stick, and the Battle Mechanics research thread has found that the crit stages have been changed to this:
1 | 6.25%
2 | ~12.5% (most likely)
3 | 50%
4 | 100%

I think it's a pretty interesting buff to Pokemon that specialize in crits to make up for the reduced multiplier. A Kingdra with Scope Lens (+1 stage) and Focus Energy (+2 stages) would have a 100% crit rate, and with Sniper, each crit would deal 2.25x damage. The best part about this on Kingdra is that crits ignore your stat drops, so Draco Meteor would still be dealing 2.25x damage even at -6 SpA.

I thought crits ignore the foe's boosts, not your drops. Also, did research prove that Sniper does x2.25 now or is it still x3?
 

Alter

lab report ᐛ
is a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I thought crits ignore the foe's boosts, not your drops. Also, did research prove that Sniper does x2.25 now or is it still x3?
Crits ignore both opponent's defensive boosts as well as your own offensive drops. Because crits were moved from 200% to 150%, Sniper was also nerfed down to 225% as well. This has been confirmed through in-game testing.
 
You should also mention team mates for Kingdra. IMO Magnezone is now a better this gen because of the new Faries and the relevance of the still existing steel types that tormented dragons for ages,
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
You should also mention team mates for Kingdra. IMO Magnezone is now a better this gen because of the new Faries and the relevance of the still existing steel types that tormented dragons for ages,
Magnezone is already mentioned under both sets teammates section.
 
Whops, I totally skipped that part.
BTW, is swift swim and drizzle now legal ? If it is, should we consider thunder alongside assault vest for a bulky mag ?
 
Sorry if it's been mentioned, but I can't use Ctrl + F on my Ipad. Anyway, I heard that by combining a Scope Lens + Focus Energy, critical hits are guaranteed. I also heard that this allows Kingdra to spam Draco Meteors without using its lowered Sp. Atk, and that it's a good set w/ Sniper. What do you guys think?
 
Sorry if it's been mentioned, but I can't use Ctrl + F on my Ipad. Anyway, I heard that by combining a Scope Lens + Focus Energy, critical hits are guaranteed. I also heard that this allows Kingdra to spam Draco Meteors without using its lowered Sp. Atk, and that it's a good set w/ Sniper. What do you guys think?
It's already been discussed in this thread and deemed nonviable.
 
A few questions, bear with me here. How does Kingdra reach such a high speed with Swift Swim? Going by base stats it's only 170 under Rain.

I also find the slashes in the first set weird. Why are Waterfall/Surf/Hydro Pump in different slots? Same with Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse.
 
A few questions, bear with me here. How does Kingdra reach such a high speed with Swift Swim? Going by base stats it's only 170 under Rain.
Swift Swim doubles the actual stat, not the base stat. A Swift Swim Kingdra under Rain has approximately the equivalent of a base 220 Spe stat.

I also find the slashes in the first set weird. Why are Waterfall/Surf/Hydro Pump in different slots? Same with Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse.
Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor are the more powerful moves and are great for blowing holes in teams early in the game. Surf and Dragon Pulse are the more reliable alternatives, and as such they are much more efficient for late-game cleaning. Since Kingdra gets such great coverage with its STABs alone, it can afford to run both the more powerful and the more reliable STABs without sacrificing much coverage. Waterfall also is slashed next to Surf since it still offers a more reliable Water STAB while also hitting specially bulky Pokemon such as Blissey and Sylveon much harder.
 
Swift Swim doubles the actual stat, not the base stat. A Swift Swim Kingdra under Rain has approximately the equivalent of a base 220 Spe stat.
I still don't understand how it's so high. I'm looking at Kingdra's speed at LV. 50 and its max speed is 150. Where did you get 220 from?

Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor are the more powerful moves and are great for blowing holes in teams early in the game. Surf and Dragon Pulse are the more reliable alternatives, and as such they are much more efficient for late-game cleaning. Since Kingdra gets such great coverage with its STABs alone, it can afford to run both the more powerful and the more reliable STABs without sacrificing much coverage. Waterfall also is slashed next to Surf since it still offers a more reliable Water STAB while also hitting specially bulky Pokemon such as Blissey and Sylveon much harder.
That makes sense, thanks for the explanation. It really does make Kingdra quite a unique Pokemon. What other moves would you recommend should I choose to run only Draco & Hydro Pump?
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I still don't understand how it's so high. I'm looking at Kingdra's speed at LV. 50 and its max speed is 150. Where did you get 220 from?
You misunderstand. First of all, here at Smogon, we battle at level 100, not level 50. Second, when you look at Kingdra's actual speed stat (not base stat, but the number of the stat itself), it reaches 269 with a neutral nature. This is doubled by Swift Swim, making its speed 538. What Agent Gibbs was saying was that this number is the equivalent of what kingdra would have if it had a base Speed stat of 220.


That makes sense, thanks for the explanation. It really does make Kingdra quite a unique Pokemon. What other moves would you recommend should I choose to run only Draco & Hydro Pump?
Again, you misunderstand. You should run all of the suggested moves, only having to choose when something is slashed (i.e., you have to choose between using Surf and Waterfall, but just because they're the same type as Hydro Pump doesn't make them useless). I explain why each move it useful in the actual analysis, so you can read that if you want to know why.
 
You misunderstand. First of all, here at Smogon, we battle at level 100, not level 50.
Oh okay, that makes a lot more sense. I didn't know that. It threw me off because this is probably the first analysis I've seen that didn't go off of base stats.

Again, you misunderstand. You should run all of the suggested moves, only having to choose when something is slashed (i.e., you have to choose between using Surf and Waterfall, but just because they're the same type as Hydro Pump doesn't make them useless). I explain why each move it useful in the actual analysis, so you can read that if you want to know why.
Actually, I understood the first time Agent Gibbs explained it to me. I also read it before I started asking questions. I was just wondering if I'd be able to run other moves if I chose not run the secondary STAB moves.
 
We should either slash Focus Energy + Scope Lens first on the first set or make a separate set for it. Focus Energy + Sniper + Scope Lens means you crit 100% of the time and your crits do 2.25% of the original damage, meaning it's an even bigger boost than Nasty Plot. Not only this, but you can spam Draco Meteor freely after a Focus Energy, as the SpA drops are nullified by the crits that will always occur. This is the set:

<p>Kingdra @ Scope Lens<br />
Ability: Sniper<br />
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe<br />
Modest Nature<br />
- Focus Energy<br />
- Draco Meteor<br />
- Hydro Pump / Surf<br />
- Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Electric</p>

Hidden Power Fire OHKOes Ferrothorn with a crit, while Hidden Power Electric does 77% minimum to 252 HP Azumarill with a crit. Here are some other calcs (all crits):
  • Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand on a critical hit: 342-404 (84.65 - 100%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Goodra on a critical hit: 306-360 (79.68 - 93.75%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash on a critical hit: 252-297 (77.77 - 91.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-W on a critical hit: 289-342 (95.37 - 112.87%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • Kingdra Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn on a critical hit: 340-400 (96.59 - 113.63%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss on a critical hit: 316-373 (84.71 - 100%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges on a critical hit: 189-223 (52.5 - 61.94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
This is completely outclassed by Manaphy with LO and Tail Glow+3 attacks. You get much more immediate damage with LO and Tail Glow provides a bigger boost than Scope Lens+Sniper(not even including LO) and let's not forget Manaphy's just better in every stat.
 
Last edited:

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
This is completely outclassed by Manaphy with LO and Tail Glow+3 attacks. You get much more immediate damage with LO and Tail Glow provides a bigger boost than Scope Lens+Sniper(not even including LO) and let's not forget Manaphy's just better in every stat.
Well Manaphy is only available in PokeBank...so yeah.
 
No it's not actually, but that's completely irrelevant anyways. Point is, Manaphy isn't available yet, so it doesn't matter.
Oh I always forget about that stuff because I play pokebank mb. You still see my point, though, and Manaphy probably won't go uber because now it can't consistantly do the hydration+rest shenanigans.
 
I agree this is my favorite set for Kingdra on 6th Gen ppl was baffle when I crit everytime good that you brought it up.

<p>Kingdra @ Scope Lens<br />
Ability: Sniper<br />
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe<br />
Modest Nature<br />
- Focus Energy<br />
- Draco Meteor<br />
- Hydro Pump / Surf<br />
- Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Electric</p>
 
I agree this is my favorite set for Kingdra on 6th Gen ppl was baffle when I crit everytime good that you brought it up.

<p>Kingdra @ Scope Lens<br />
Ability: Sniper<br />
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe<br />
Modest Nature<br />
- Focus Energy<br />
- Draco Meteor<br />
- Hydro Pump / Surf<br />
- Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Electric</p>
Once Pokebank comes out this set will be completely useless. With LO Keldeo you get much more initial damage than with this set and when you get a CM boost you still do more damage than this Kingdra set and you can't reliably sweep with Kingdra due to his mediocre speed and Keldeo is very fast and can reliably sweep. Also, if Manaphy isn't banned, Manaphy will also make using Kingdra redundant with much better bulk(leftovers included, which Scope Lens Kingdra can't have), better initial damage, a better boosting move(Tail Glow is 2.5 when Sniper Focus Energy is 2.25), and a reliable speed stat. This set looks great on paper but it's pure gimmick and it will stay in UU where it belongs because it's just 100% outclassed by other water-type threats and, since pokebank is so close I think it is important for everyone to recognize this and stop overrating this set.
 
Last edited:
Once Pokebank comes out this set will be completely useless. With LO Keldeo you get much more initial damage than with this set and when you get a CM boost you still do more damage than this Kingdra set and you can't reliably sweep with Kingdra due to his mediocre speed and Keldeo is very fast and can reliably sweep. Also, if Manaphy isn't banned, Manaphy will also make using Kingdra redundant with much better bulk(leftovers included, which Scope Lens Kingdra can't have), better initial damage, a better boosting move(Tail Glow is 2.5 when Sniper Focus Energy is 2.25), and a reliable speed stat. This set looks great on paper but it's pure gimmick and it will stay in UU where it belongs because it's just 100% outclassed by other water-type threats and, since pokebank is so close I think it is important for everyone to recognize this and stop overrating this set.
But dat 100% crit chance tho.

To be fair, you can also run SwiftSwim+Politoed to fix the speed problem. Sniper, however, turns him into a monster. I tried this Sniper set out and I liked it. It works decently well. It might not get you to be the top pokemon master in the universe, but it definitely functions well. I also doubt Manaphy will stay OU.

EDIT: Didn't want to make a second response post (didn't want to clutter on an analysis). I understand Josh meant this set is outclassed by other water types, and it probably is. That doesn't stop me from liking this set, though. Manaphy will probably not be OU, but Keldeo will completely outclass the Sniper set unless there is some specific reason you want Draco Meteor over Secret Sword.
 
Last edited:
But dat 100% crit chance tho.

To be fair, you can also run SwiftSwim+Politoed to fix the speed problem. Sniper, however, turns him into a monster. I tried this Sniper set out and I liked it. It works decently well. It might not get you to be the top pokemon master in the universe, but it definitely functions well. I also doubt Manaphy will stay OU.
I don't think you understood what I said. Read again.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top