GSC In-Game Tier List

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Okay, why the hell is Zubat B Rank?
Like, I tried getting a Zubat early for ingame and... oh gosh, it is so bad... It evolved to Golbat already and still doesn't have any STAB. It feels very useless for like the first 4 Badges so far (except Rival Grass-Starter being shrecked)

Can someone explain this one?
 

atsync

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Would that mean Trade Item/Stone evolution are , as a whole, "banned" for this tier list?
No, you can still use them, but only if the items/stones in question are obtained within the same save file as the game you're actually tiering in. Again, it's the only way we can reasonably assume that players will have access to the items required for evolution, since not everyone will be able to simply trade a Pokemon over to a save file with a readily available evolution item like you were able to with Vaporeon.

Should badge boosts be considered for this list?
We factor in stats and general power when tiering stuff, and since these boosts have an impact on those things, the badge boosts will be "considered" in tiering by default.

Okay, why the hell is Zubat B Rank?
Like, I tried getting a Zubat early for ingame and... oh gosh, it is so bad... It evolved to Golbat already and still doesn't have any STAB. It feels very useless for like the first 4 Badges so far (except Rival Grass-Starter being shrecked)

Can someone explain this one?
I have no opinion of Zubat's placement at this time but I can say that Zubat is one of those Pokemon that might be better to obtain later rather than when it is first obtained. Zubat is obtainable near the start of the game in Dark Cave, but I know from personal experience that trying to drag a low level Zubat up to a usable state is an insufferable experience.

Instead, it is probably better to wait until Golbat can be caught in the wild. In GSC, you can catch them in Lapras' section in Union Cave (requires Surf). In Crystal you can get them in Mt Mortar - doesn't need Surf so it's slightly earlier, but it'll be much more under-leveled than the Union Cave version so I think I'd rather use that instead.

Someone proposed the possibility of catching Golbat with a Friend Ball, which would set its happiness to 200 and allow for a quicker evolution to Golbat, while also granting an 80 base power Return right from the start. I used the Friend Ball strategy for a test run of Miltank and I didn't like it because I spent so much time just obtaining Miltank in the 1 Friend Ball I had (it only has the catch rate of a standard Poke Ball and Miltank has a relatively low species catch rate) that it probably canceled out any time I might have gained by have a more powerful Return sooner, but Golbat has a better catch rate than Miltank and is much more common, so Friend Ball may work better here.
 
Okay, so Zubat is a case like Ursaring in Crystal, improving with an evolution. However, I am curious about something: How is a non-stab fast Pokemon a good argument for something? I rather use all aviable Normal/Flying xept Noctowl.

I don't get its niche. Movepool bad, no good stab move, only speed and bulk. Heck even Stantler has more Attack and could use the Friend Ball much more.
 
Sorry for Double Post but I decided to bench my Return Crobat I dragged around til the 9th Badge.

Crobat is, simply put, a horrible Pokemon through the entirety of Jotho. I replaced it with a Friend Ball Ursaring from the Victory Road, placed some Punch moves on it(Fpunch/Tpunch/Return/Feint) and it was great in the Pokemon League at like 33(trained to 37)

My point isn't to compare the two, but I seriously, seriously doubt Zubat is B-Rank. I never needed it through the whole game except for the rival Meganium, but that's it.

Also low-level Feraligatr sucks in the League. I know it's S-rank because you can overlevel it easily but damn, it's special attack is so low...
 
Sorry for Double Post but I decided to bench my Return Crobat I dragged around til the 9th Badge.

Crobat is, simply put, a horrible Pokemon through the entirety of Jotho. I replaced it with a Friend Ball Ursaring from the Victory Road, placed some Punch moves on it(Fpunch/Tpunch/Return/Feint) and it was great in the Pokemon League at like 33(trained to 37)

My point isn't to compare the two, but I seriously, seriously doubt Zubat is B-Rank. I never needed it through the whole game except for the rival Meganium, but that's it.

Also low-level Feraligatr sucks in the League. I know it's S-rank because you can overlevel it easily but damn, it's special attack is so low...
Why not get Sludge Bomb for Crobat? Route 43. It's good physical STAB. And why use special attacks on Ursaring and Feraligatr? STAB is sort of fubar until gen 4 and it's sometimes better to just lean on the stronger attack stat than shoehorn in their STABs.

Currently on a Gold run. Geodude really is excellent in the early game.
 
I forgot a small detail: No TM/HM run(xept reusable once aka headbutt etc.)
Although to be frank, Sludge Bomb wouldn't help much either :/

Ursaring Return is the only physical move it needs, F/Ipunch are for things like Forretress, Feint for Double Team annoyance

Feraligatr without special moves? What'S the point of using it than? Ice Punch/Surf are good on it for the majority of it, I just use 6 Pokemon instead of 4 so the EXP spread thin. No doubt about it that it rocks with only 2-4 Pokemon in mind though.

(And I love Geodude in G/S, if you start with Chikorita HM Slave you can easily wipe the first 3 Gyms and if you feel lucky even the fourth gym with quick claw)
 
Why not get Sludge Bomb for Crobat? Route 43. It's good physical STAB. And why use special attacks on Ursaring and Feraligatr? STAB is sort of fubar until gen 4 and it's sometimes better to just lean on the stronger attack stat than shoehorn in their STABs.

Currently on a Gold run. Geodude really is excellent in the early game.
Crobat can't learn Sludge Bomb in Gen II. At least it can be a good Fly slave, but the rest of its movepool... Giga Drain/Steel Wing TMs are unavailable before the League, so its movepool is pretty much limited to Wing Attack/Fly for Bug, Fighting and Grass mons, Return for everything else and Confuse Ray as filler.
 
Geodude lost some of its luster towards the end since I didn't have anyone to trade with. Really had a hard time doing much of anything in the Pokemon League. Kadabra pulled its weight the whole time even though it is extremely frail. Nidoking can be amazing if you go Thrash/Filler/Thunder Punch/Ice Punch.
 

DHR-107

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Currently on a Gold run. Geodude really is excellent in the early game.
Problem is that's where Geodude hits a dead stop. After Whitney, it essentially becomes useless. You can probably luck out a win vs Morty (his AI is incredibly bad, as are his sets) but after that point, Geodude is absolute dead weight outside of beating on team Rocket. While that's kinda useful, almost any other Pokemon does it just as well, even Ariados.

So at the moment, I am doing my game in a really strange order... I've gone up the lighthouse, but cut back and I am currently in the Mahogany Town Rocket Hideout (goddamn cameras). Caught the Red Gyarados and HM'd it up... I'm only running 5 mons atm and idt I am going to be running a 6th...

Team is about Lv 24 across the board currently, Miltank and Ariados are actually MVPs for the time being. Bayleef is just as "meh" as it always was, struggles against Team Rocket but that will likely change when I get Body Slam. Useful in most other fights though. Ariados swept through Morty with Dig (with some fortuitous Hypnosis misses) and is generally being my fall back. I can't wait till get gets Sludge Bomb. I'm genuinely surprised at its performance so far, it's a lot better than I expected it to be. Night Shade is a god send however...

Pidgeotto and Quagsire are doing their normal thing of killing what they need to kill. I've never given Quagsire Ice Punch before, but it's so great to have something which can effectively neutralize Zubat on the team. No Electric moves makes me sad, but I didn't really feel like using Mareep or Magnemite. Quagsire takes hits so well and Pigdeotto has enough speed to smack something (albeit with weak moves) before it can take damage back. Not learning Wing Attack till Lv 33 is downright rude!

So far from the things I've trained:

Geodude - A -> B - It's only really A Rank when it comes to Team rocket and the start of the game. Past that point it gets trash really fast in my opinion. Magnitude is a bad move to rely on (but Dig can make up for it)
Miltank - A - Agreed. Miltank is strong, fast and can take hits. Mine has Strength over Return at the moment, but it still basically OHKO's everything and Stomp is good secondary STAB.
Wooper A - Agreed. Crazy bulk + Ice Punch and Surf (and latterly Earthquake) make this thing solid and dependable. It's pretty slow but has the defences to take hits easily.
Bayleef - B - I agree with this. GS is probably the worst game for the Grass Starter in the whole franchise. Even my "special" Leech Seed one is not finding many matches much easier to complete. The sheer number of Poison types popping up all over the place puts you in an awkward place until you can reach Body Slam (or teach it Strength).
Spinarak - D - I don't think Spinarak is as bad as people make out, but its movepool is pretty terrible. I taught it Dig as soon as I could and I am very much looking forward to Sludge Bomb to use it more effectively. Nightshade is great for chip damage, but its also quite slow and frail which means it does tend to take more damage than other Pokemon.
 
Crobat can't learn Sludge Bomb in Gen II. At least it can be a good Fly slave, but the rest of its movepool... Giga Drain/Steel Wing TMs are unavailable before the League, so its movepool is pretty much limited to Wing Attack/Fly for Bug, Fighting and Grass mons, Return for everything else and Confuse Ray as filler.
Which in other words means Zubat should be one of the lowest ranks, not the same as Tentacruel(wtf)

About Geodude bashing, it excels so much in the early game that I don't get your point DHR-107 about Bayleef and Geodude being the same rank, wtf.

Why is the ranking here so odd? Golem (not Graveler btw, Golem) also deals with the Steel Gym, helps against E4 Muk, Charizard, Houndoom(not weakened), Aerodactyl, Thunder Dragonite at the top of my head. It was always useful throughout the game. Deals with Lt. Surge, Blaine etc. etc.
..-
What does Bayleef do at B-Rank? I don't get it at all, like seriously, how are you playing the game that Bayleef can possibly end up in B rank? Is the B-Rank here cursed with stuff llke Zubat at B-Rank?
 
Which in other words means Zubat should be one of the lowest ranks, not the same as Tentacruel(wtf)

What does Bayleef do at B-Rank? I don't get it at all, like seriously, how are you playing the game that Bayleef can possibly end up in B rank? Is the B-Rank here cursed with stuff llke Zubat at B-Rank?
Zubat is available very early in the Dark Cave so that it'll gain enough happiness for Crobat, but until Bite, it counts on Leech Life (20 power, no STAB), Supersonic (55% accurate) and Swift (TM move, fortunately inside Union Cave and hopefully just before Bite) to damage or annoy its enemies. But Zubat has a shit 30 base SpA, so Bite won't hurt that much at this stage. Concerning Tentacool, it comes early as well (before Union Cave if you fish just north of the Center), but you'd prefer directly get Tentacruel instead with Surf, which means a 95 BP STAB move from a respectable 80 base SpA right off the bat. And it learns Sludge Bomb as well, unlike Crobat.

For Chikorita, none of the 3 types it beats (Rock, Ground and Water) have Gym/E4 specialists in Johto, although specific mons can have problems with its STAB. Worse, between Falkner, Bugsy, Morty, Rocket grunts (it's quite hard to find something not resisting Grass outside of Rattata and Drowzee families) and arguably Jasmine (though Mud-Slap takes care of her Magnemite) and Clair (no Ice coverage on her Kingdra and you have Reflect and Poison Powder to outstall it, but...), Grass mons in general have a tough time in GSC. Chikorita is a starter, has Razor Leaf very early and doesn't require a stone to evolve. That's why it's B and not C or worse.
 
Zubat is available very early in the Dark Cave so that it'll gain enough happiness for Crobat, but until Bite, it counts on Leech Life (20 power, no STAB), Supersonic (55% accurate) and Swift (TM move, fortunately inside Union Cave and hopefully just before Bite) to damage or annoy its enemies. But Zubat has a shit 30 base SpA, so Bite won't hurt that much at this stage. Concerning Tentacool, it comes early as well (before Union Cave if you fish just north of the Center), but you'd prefer directly get Tentacruel instead with Surf, which means a 95 BP STAB move from a respectable 80 base SpA right off the bat. And it learns Sludge Bomb as well, unlike Crobat.
Exactly, I propose Zubat for C-Rank for now, I seriously doubt its good, I never needed it except for two circumstances: Rival(2) and Rival(3), and I used all three of the evolution line.

For Chikorita, none of the 3 types it beats (Rock, Ground and Water) have Gym/E4 specialists in Johto, although specific mons can have problems with its STAB. Worse, between Falkner, Bugsy, Morty, Rocket grunts (it's quite hard to find something not resisting Grass outside of Rattata and Drowzee families) and arguably Jasmine (though Mud-Slap takes care of her Magnemite) and Clair (no Ice coverage on her Kingdra and you have Reflect and Poison Powder to outstall it, but...), Grass mons in general have a tough time in GSC. Chikorita is a starter, has Razor Leaf very early and doesn't require a stone to evolve. That's why it's B and not C or worse.
I agree that Razor Leaf early is beastly, however, you yourself showed that the relevant fights for Grass types are mostly [Fight](Poliwrath), .... and Kanto Battles. I just checked in the Grass Types and have to admit though: The only other good option would be ... uh Sunkern, but that's it(for getting a good grass type move known as Razor Leaf), although while it's stone isn't that hard to get, Sunflora is slow and frankly sucks.

Bellosom also only gets Razor Leaf per Egg Move... rip
 
Bayleef - B - I agree with this. GS is probably the worst game for the Grass Starter in the whole franchise. Even my "special" Leech Seed one is not finding many matches much easier to complete. The sheer number of Poison types popping up all over the place puts you in an awkward place until you can reach Body Slam (or teach it Strength).
Don't disagree with the overall point, but what about Headbutt until you get to Bodyslam? I'm sure it's not intended that way, but at least to me this reads as if you had to rely on Tackle for everything grass is NVE against until you reach Olivine. Headbutt also has a very low opportunity cost associated with it considering it's in the store.
 
Snubbull/Teddiursa are probably at least on par with Abra (no trade) in Crystal, if you are using a single Pokemon strategy (of course their poor speed makes them next to useless as a team member, but single Pokemon playthroughs are more efficient anyway). They can hit as hard with Return, which is freely available on the right day of the week, and get enough coverage to beat the Pokemon that resist them. I'm not sure exactly which one is better but they both dominate the game. Ursaring has better base stats but is at a lower level due to an inferior Exp rate. Teddiursa is harder to catch but may be a little easier at the beginning of the playthrough. Snubbull also doesn't learn Earthquake, but you probably want to conserve that TM for postgame if you have any interest in that.

Return from either of those Pokemon ends up being more than a little more powerful than a Kadabra Psychic, OHKOing almost everything that doesn't resist. And it has 20 PP.
 
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I can't comment on how badly Geodude falls off after Morty, as I trade-evolved and it does fine with Mud-Slap and Rock Throw so far, but I'm only on Pryce.

Speaking strictly of the game up until Pryce, I've found the Hoppip line with a paraflinch set extremely helpful for muscling through some tough battles. Its attack is pitiful, but with Stun Spore, Leech Seed, Headbutt and a King's Rock it can cripple many beefy threats, and its defences allow it to stomach at least one hit. It's a one-trick pony, but it's more effective than I expected and has saved my Nuzlocke more than once, even whittling down Jasmine's Steelix handily while still only level 28.

It is doing more work for my team than Krabby, certainly. With its speed, its access to the powder moves, and its leech seed restoration, I'd bump it up to C, personally.
 
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Edit: Oops didn't read the rules at the beginning of the thread. But I do think that the rule of only being able to trade to evolve, and not to do other things, is extremely arbitrary. Here's my original post, some of the logic still applies.
In relation to trading, I don't really get why trade-backing Pokemon caught in your own game is singled out as the sort of acceptable "bring in outside forces" option. You could probably just as easily get someone to trade you a Houndour for example, which only requires one trade, not two, and train that Houndour with boosted Exp into an earlier evolving Houndoom which may be able to rampage over the game (I haven't put particular thought into whether or not it can, but early-game Houndour isn't on the list yet trade-evolved Pokemon are).

Not to mention the possibility of trading to a friend, having them buff up your Pokemon with evolutionary stones, TMs, vitamins, Rare Candies, and trading back. Or just having them send you a Pokemon with one helpful item attached (a stone or TM). Is this really that much ahead of a tradeback in terms of convenience/difficulty? Especially with stone-evolved Pokemon. Vaporeon can rampage through the game with just Surf and even just Aurora Beam and Bite backing it up. Once you are bringing an outside factor into it, is it really that much more of a stretch to expect a friend to stone evolve your Eevee? I don't really think it is.

Or look at it this way. Where is the bigger gap in the following, when it comes to how it should be penalized:
1. No outside involvement (ex: catching an Abra and playing through with Kadabra)
2a. Trade and trade back (ex: catching an Abra, evolving to Kadabra and then trade-evolving)
2b. Trade an outsider Pokemon to your team which took little effort to catch (ex: Houndour, Larvitar, or even a Graveler)
3. Use outside help to make a stone evo (ex: having your friend trade you a Pidgey with a Water Stone attached, and then taking that Water Stone and giving it to Eevee)

In my very subjective opinion, the big gap is between 1 and everything else. 2a, 2b, and 3 should all be heavily punished in tiers relative to 1, and not so much relative to each other. Before you say "well they have to get really far in the game to do that which takes a lot of effort", how about simply receiving a Totodile or Cyndaquil?

So basically, get Alakazam the hell out of any high tier :pimp:

Speaking strictly of the game up until Pryce, I've found the Hoppip line with a paraflinch set extremely helpful for muscling through some tough battles. Its attack is pitiful, but with Stun Spore, Leech Seed, Headbutt and a King's Rock it can cripple many beefy threats, and its defences allow it to stomach at least one hit. It's a one-trick pony, but it's more effective than I expected and has saved my Nuzlocke more than once, even whittling down Jasmine's Steelix handily while still only level 28.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but this should be considered "inefficient" and thus penalized pretty heavily. It takes a lot more time paraseedflinching your way through battles than it does to simply attack. Even if it's fairly "effective" at winning.
 
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While the Hoppip Flinch idea isn't bad, don't forget that you can, especially in G/S/C, easily muscle your way through the trainers.

Also I tried Ursaring(G): I catched in with luck in the Pokemon League on Level 32, put Return and punches on it and it was already a useful member for the Elite Four with no Grinding*(Friend Ball...)

RBYer the problem is that Single Pokemon playthrough aren't really, well used for this tier list. I also think Dual Pokemon runs are better (e.g. Golem/Alakazam or Tauros/Alakazam or Feraligatr/Alakazam) for the casual player because you still get all the EXP you want but have better variety through the game.
 
RBYer the problem is that Single Pokemon playthrough aren't really, well used for this tier list. I also think Dual Pokemon runs are better (e.g. Golem/Alakazam or Tauros/Alakazam or Feraligatr/Alakazam) for the casual player because you still get all the EXP you want but have better variety through the game.
I doubt that anything that involves a trade is really better for the "casual player" overall.

But if you are using multi-Pokemon teams, Feraligatr, and Kadabra should not be top tier. When Feraligatr isn't dominating from a huge level advantage, there isn't too much backing it up. Its special stats and speed are both mediocre, and that's what it'd be using. And when Kadabra isn't dominating from a big level advantage, unless you are specifically using it for OHKO matchups, it's going to be getting hit, and getting hit is not something it does well at all, even by special attacks, with its pitiful HP. You could probably make the case that it overall takes hits worse than Totodile (less HP, way less Def, more Sp Def but not enough to make up for the rest).

In order to make this list follow its own logic consistently, first of all we need to figure out an algorithm which actually makes Feraligatr and Kadabra S-rank. Since "efficiency" was mentioned and those 2 Pokemon are ideal for single Pokemon runs, I figured that how well they do in single Pokemon runs has to be a major part of the ranking.
 
Okay, I've been dealing with someone trying to apply formulas in others IG tier lists, please tell me we're not getting into fucking algorithms here now.

Efficiency is a very broad term: it just means "low effort, quick run" clear of the game. There's a balance of team members to aim for since it's more efficient to be able to OHKO as many things as possible, which isn't easy to do with one mon compared to two. Feraligatr's available early and gives you a good Surf user, and Kadabra/Alakazam is easily OHKO'd... but Psychic is still one of the best typings in the Gen 2 type chart, so his high stats mean he's not hard pressed to OHKO things himself.

One thing I want to know, is the A-Tier Spearow just for any Spearow in general? I recall there's the gift one you can get near Goldenrod "Kenya," which comes with a different OT and thus gets boosted EXP. Starting at Level 10 means it needs a little catch up, but the EXP boost seems like it would alleviate that, and then it comes just in time for the buyable Return TM's while having Badge Boosts on both of its STABs. Boosted EXP helps Fearow keep a bit ahead of the Curve on levels for the same battles, which alleviates potential stat fall off and builds friendship quickly for Return.

Has anyone played with the two to compare a normal Spearow to the Mail Spearow?
 
Okay, I've been dealing with someone trying to apply formulas in others IG tier lists, please tell me we're not getting into fucking algorithms here now.
Algorithm - a process or set of rules to be followed in calculations or other problem-solving operations.

Basically in this case, a consistent process to be followed in a problem-solving operation. Not "applying a formula" per se, everything is way too subjective for this, but not blatantly jumping around and following a logic that makes no sense.
Efficiency is a very broad term: it just means "low effort, quick run" clear of the game.
To anyone experienced with playing through the game, it is apparent that low effort, quick runs are most easily accomplished with one over-leveled Pokemon. Look at the speedrun records.
There's a balance of team members to aim for since it's more efficient to be able to OHKO as many things as possible, which isn't easy to do with one mon compared to two.
One level 55 and one level 56, or one level 70? Both require the same amount of experience. The fact is, that the level 70 dominates stuff while the level 55 and level 56 together struggle to KO stuff in one hit.
Feraligatr's available early and gives you a good Surf user, and Kadabra/Alakazam is easily OHKO'd... but Psychic is still one of the best typings in the Gen 2 type chart, so his high stats mean he's not hard pressed to OHKO things himself.
It's not like they aren't good in a team context. They (especially Kadabra) just don't stand out as anything "S-rank".
One thing I want to know, is the A-Tier Spearow just for any Spearow in general? I recall there's the gift one you can get near Goldenrod "Kenya," which comes with a different OT and thus gets boosted EXP. Starting at Level 10 means it needs a little catch up, but the EXP boost seems like it would alleviate that, and then it comes just in time for the buyable Return TM's while having Badge Boosts on both of its STABs. Boosted EXP helps Fearow keep a bit ahead of the Curve on levels for the same battles, which alleviates potential stat fall off and builds friendship quickly for Return.

Has anyone played with the two to compare a normal Spearow to the Mail Spearow?
Exp rates are everything, so it's got to be the Mail Spearow.
 
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I kind of feel like there should be some other, separate thread to discuss policy and what efficiency exactly is since that topic's been getting quite a bit of traffic lately and it would be helpful to have something like that to fall back on and link to. Because at this point it's becoming a detriment to the threads -- we're here to discuss how efficient something is, not what that is exactly. I don't want to minimod but I'd highly suggest just PMing a member of staff if you're confused by and/or disagree with how efficiency is defined in these threads.
 
where would Larvitar (C) fall? obtainable from the celadon game corner at lv 40, which means you can immediately evolve it upon the next level up (or keep it larvitar until 50 for earthquake via levelup)

larvitar's level up movepool is pretty impressive, it comes with rock slide straightaway, and gets earthquake and crunch not too long after.
 
where would Larvitar (C) fall? obtainable from the celadon game corner at lv 40, which means you can immediately evolve it upon the next level up (or keep it larvitar until 50 for earthquake via levelup)

larvitar's level up movepool is pretty impressive, it comes with rock slide straightaway, and gets earthquake and crunch not too long after.
As far as I see there are 2 main ways of doing it: evolving straight away, and waiting for Level 56 to evolve Pupitar (Tyranitar learns it at 61), and simply Everstoning to 50, the level where Larvitar learns Earthquake.

Method A: Larvitar has Rock Slide, Thrash, Screech, Scary Face (no good TMs except Earthquake), evolves at Level 41 (or maybe 43) into Pupitar, replaces Scary Face with Crunch at level 47, replaces Thrash with Earthquake at 56 and evolves into Tyranitar at level 56.

Method B: Larvitar has Rock Slide, Thrash, Screech, Scary Face (no good TMs except Earthquake), replaces Scary Face with Crunch at level 43, replaces Thrash with Earthquake at 51 and evolves into Pupitar, and evolves into Tyranitar at 55.

Either of them seem fine. One thing you don't want to do is evolve to Tyranitar at 55 because then it needs to wait until 61 to learn Earthquake.

The sheer experience points it takes just to reach Tyranitar seems like a complete inconvenience to a playthrough (130k to 140k depending on if you evolve at 55 or 56).

The dividends are okay: Tyranitar can after all destroy 4 out of Red's 6 Pokemon pretty easily, I know I'm not supposed to really be comparing to Graveler but it can probably OHKO Pikachu, take minimal damage from Espeon Mud-Slaps, overcome Snorlax's stalling tactics with Screech, and destroy Charizard who has no rock coverage. As with anything late in the game though, why add exp to stuff and train it up to something respectable when you could just be fortifying high-powered Pokemon that you already have?

Probably a strong Tier C though, because it does have its little niche which it performs quite well, and it does not require all the leveling up of Tier D's Dratini. However, these tiers don't really seem much like tiers and a lot of stuff should probably move around so it's hard to say for sure. I wonder though - why is Snorlax a Tier C? A late game Pokemon which is battle-ready, and 10 levels higher! And it has the crucial Special Defense/HP combination which is a blind spot to most of the powerful trainers at the end of the game. If you're going to add a late game non-Uber, let it be Snorlax.
 
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