Hmm. You sure Ditto wouldnt get the boost? That doesnt make sense, following your logic, a Ditto would still retain its Quick Powder boost if it transformed
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Challenge I Think I May Have Discovered a New Way of Dealing the Most Damage Possible in Pokemon
- Thread starter 7acespade
- Start date
The Ditto items are specifically excluded from working, but any other item that cares about the user's species looks at what it was before transforming, not what it looks like now. This is why Imposter Chansey (as opposed to Blissey) is a big thing in BH, as it can transform into the opponent except with its huge natural HP, and still get the benefit of Eviolite on top of that.
As in previous generations, a transformed Pokémon retains its original species for determining if it is boosted by Pokémon-specific stat-enhancing items, with the exception of Metal Powder and Quick Powder, which use the target's species.
Yeah, youre right man
If you can give me a rundown of every multiplier, like I tried to do with mine (with the transform into pikachu), I can calculate the max damage without the aid of a calculator
The current rundown has been posted here: https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/6dcsw5/645_million_damage_in_one_move_under_gen_7_rules/ , which also further compresses the scenario down to 30 turns. Note that Pikachu cannot be the Electric Terrain holder, since its only access to the move is by egg-7, while it can only get Mimic from 1 or 3. Fortunately Charge was introduced early enough in the game's history that Pichu does pick it up by egg-3, and the sets in use are all thoroughly legal.
1. Xurkitree would be using the special side, which is inferior for a number of reasons already given
2. Beyond the lack of a Me First multiplier, Xurkitree doesn't have any legal way of accessing such higher-powered moves as Power Trip or Stored Power in the first place
3. Repeated Power Splitting can mend Pikachu's attack stat by raising it as far as 613 before taking boosts into account (compare Xurkitree's peak special attack of 489)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesuu-582223664 doesn't show the final damage roll, but it does reduce the setup to 29 turns while still putting all the multipliers into place. Furthermore, it's carefully engineered to be eminently reproducible; nothing is reliant on RNG except a coin flip for the critical on the final turn. Indeed, Mankey is level 1 so that it can take advantage of Zoom Lens to patch up any accuracy problems with Screech.
2. Beyond the lack of a Me First multiplier, Xurkitree doesn't have any legal way of accessing such higher-powered moves as Power Trip or Stored Power in the first place
3. Repeated Power Splitting can mend Pikachu's attack stat by raising it as far as 613 before taking boosts into account (compare Xurkitree's peak special attack of 489)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesuu-582223664 doesn't show the final damage roll, but it does reduce the setup to 29 turns while still putting all the multipliers into place. Furthermore, it's carefully engineered to be eminently reproducible; nothing is reliant on RNG except a coin flip for the critical on the final turn. Indeed, Mankey is level 1 so that it can take advantage of Zoom Lens to patch up any accuracy problems with Screech.
Oops, guess all this theorycrafting around Pikachu was a false alarm--Shuckle will not be denied its rightful place on the throne. Everything is normal and boring again, you can go back to bed now.
+6 252+ Atk Metronome (5th turn) Pure Power Shuckle Helping Hand Helping Hand Helping Hand Me First Ice Ball (960 BP) vs. -6 0 HP / 0- Def Smeargle with an ally's Flower Gift on a critical hit: 920,421,211-1,082,848,464 (4602106055-5414242320%) -- geez, maybe you should stop aiming for the horn before someone really gets hurt
(if triples existed this gen, you could reach 3,654,613,494)
(if triples existed this gen, you could reach 3,654,613,494)
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Is that the correct replay?
No, wrong link lost in the editing shuffle.
the original replay, which took 12 turns
the revised version, which has the same damage potential but squeezes everything into 11 turns instead (battle video code: A28W-WWWW-WWW7-7AX7)
the original replay, which took 12 turns
the revised version, which has the same damage potential but squeezes everything into 11 turns instead (battle video code: A28W-WWWW-WWW7-7AX7)
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I've been looking at this stuff a lot in the last gen, and a lot to add. But first I would like to point out that the Shuckle route has multiple Helping Hands boost, while Pikachu has just one, so both formulas don't match and needs to be corrected. Now for my other inputs:
Flash Fire boost last even if they lose their ability, so add that to the fire route.
When Helping Hand is used, the game sets a flag saying that it's been used. Further uses only repeats setting the flag to on, so the move doses not stack. Unconfirmed, but Flower Gift in triple battle probably doesn't stack either.
Gen 6 probably has the highest output, as it has the Symboisis Glitch which makes items give there effect twice (200% from Metronome instead of 100%).
If triple battles ever come back and Flower Gift doesn't stack, then having the third Pokémon with Symboisis allows a Gem+2nd Item combo.
Flash Fire boost last even if they lose their ability, so add that to the fire route.
When Helping Hand is used, the game sets a flag saying that it's been used. Further uses only repeats setting the flag to on, so the move doses not stack. Unconfirmed, but Flower Gift in triple battle probably doesn't stack either.
Gen 6 probably has the highest output, as it has the Symboisis Glitch which makes items give there effect twice (200% from Metronome instead of 100%).
If triple battles ever come back and Flower Gift doesn't stack, then having the third Pokémon with Symboisis allows a Gem+2nd Item combo.
I haven't tested it under cartridge rules yet, but under Showdown rules, multiple instances of Helping Hand on the same turn are indeed cumulative. Pikachu's setup doesn't take advantage of multiple Helping Hands, meanwhile, since the opponents must be occupied with using exactly Electrify and Power Trip respectively (or Pikachu could use Mimic to learn Power Trip directly, giving up the Me First bonus and freeing up one opponent to use Instruct, but this does no better in terms of damage).
What I do know is that from the battle video replay that was actually done in game for the billion-damage hit, the message "Cherrim is ready to help Shuckle!" appears once after the first Helping Hand, twice in a row after the second use, and three times in a row after the third use. It's doubtful, but the visual representation there raises the possibility that it's actually counting 6 Helping Hands, in which case the damage increases more than threefold over the reckoning I have.
What I do know is that from the battle video replay that was actually done in game for the billion-damage hit, the message "Cherrim is ready to help Shuckle!" appears once after the first Helping Hand, twice in a row after the second use, and three times in a row after the third use. It's doubtful, but the visual representation there raises the possibility that it's actually counting 6 Helping Hands, in which case the damage increases more than threefold over the reckoning I have.