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Inheritance Inheritance (Tier survey in post #313)
- Thread starter Don Vascus
- Start date
If thats the case, then why doesn't council just make those pokemon not have the IV limitation temporarily? This is a bug so it should be fixed, and I know council can't just fix it, but measures can be taken so these pokemon aren't completely shadowbanned until its fixed.
Gliscor @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swagger
- Knock Off
- Acrobatics
- Low Kick
I've experimented with this Grafaiai donation set on multiple offensive flying types, and I've found Gliscor to be my favorite one due to its ability to take a hit and still have great damage output. I've found this mon to do best as a lead, especially against hazard setter leads, as you're very likely to get away with hitting a Swagger. By hitting the Swagger, you'll essentially get a +2 attack and speed, confuse your opponent, and get a 110 BP STAB move, all in one turn. There are two rng elements that can drastically effect the matchup, Swagger's 85% accuracy and the opponents chance to hit themselves.
Acrobatics, Low Kick and Knock Off are a pretty great combination that lack many significant counters. Low Kick at +2 usually OHKOs Goodra-H and Darkrai, while Knock Off hits Ghold and deals with Rocky Helmet. Bad Matchups are mons with Wisp and Urshifu-Rapid Strike due to water type priority.
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swagger is 85 accuracy
Gliscor @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swagger
- Knock Off
- Acrobatics
- Low Kick
I've experimented with this Grafaiai donation set on multiple offensive flying types, and I've found Gliscor to be my favorite one due to its ability to take a hit and still have great damage output. I've found this mon to do best as a lead, especially against hazard setter leads, as you're very likely to get away with hitting a Swagger. By hitting the Swagger, you'll essentially get a +2 attack and speed, confuse your opponent, and get a 110 BP STAB move, all in one turn. There are two rng elements that can drastically effect the matchup, Swagger's 90% accuracy and the opponents chance to hit themselves.
Acrobatics, Low Kick and Knock Off are a pretty great combination that lack many significant counters. Low Kick at +2 usually OHKOs Goodra-H and Darkrai, while Knock Off hits Ghold and deals with Rocky Helmet. Bad Matchups are mons with Wisp and Urshifu-Rapid Strike due to water type priority.
done w/ the meta bc it takes 30 mins to get a ladder game & then i forget about it and lose all my ladder points
here are some stall teams that were very successful recently, peaked at 1591 at 87% GXE
here are some stall teams that were very successful recently, peaked at 1591 at 87% GXE
Dunfan
formerly Dunsparce Fanboy
Bro, the ladder tried to match you with a similar ELO player.
So this isn't a one-liner, this set is pretty cool:
Code:
Dragalge (Roaring Moon) @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Gunk Shot
- Scale Shot
- Thief / Toxic / Flip Turn
Code:
252 Atk Choice Band Roaring Moon Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Primarina: 360-424 (98.9 - 116.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Don't forget to bring a Kleavor or Exca inheritor to set rocks vs Magic Bounce so you can OHKO Enam on-switch too!
Code:
252 Atk Choice Band Roaring Moon Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Enamorus-Therian: 278-328 (78.9 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
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Some goofy ahh sets I cooked up
I have no SpD (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Guard Swap
- Mud-Slap
- Clear Smog
- Recover
Blissey that can change its defense stat with a chance to burn, plus Macargo gets Recover for some reason, so thats fun.
Autobots Rollout (Regirock) @ Room Service /
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rollout
- Curse
- Power Trick
- Earthquake
Regirock has 200 base Def. if you use Curse with Power Trick you're gonna be doing insane damage and it lowers your speed so in Trick Romm you're gonna go first. The donor is Forretres btw. You could give him a Wide Lens too if you wanted him to hit every Rollout.
Monke. (Monferno) @ Eviolite
Ability: Simple
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Curse
- Flame Charge
- Body Press
- Earthquake
Donor's Numel and this sets pretty cool. Curse to raise Def and Atk alot and since its STAB, body press and flame charge are gonna do more damage and the Eviolite make monferno bulkier than Infernape. Plus its funny to think that a small infant child does more than it's evolution. Flame Charge is there to make you fast again
No, im not Sorry. (Chansey) (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Synchronize
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Transform
- Anything
- Idk
- This should be banned.
Need I explain this one? I think I must. Chansey's HP with Eviolite and Transform? This set came from the depths of Tartarus itself.
Flying crab (Gliscor) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Early Bird
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 244 HP / 192 Def / 72 Spe
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Acrobatics
- Acupressure
- Rest
Infinite stat boots.
rip her lungs (Meloetta) @ Throat Spray
Ability: Punk Rock
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shift Gear
- Boomburst
- Stored Power
- Charge Beam
Yeah so Tox gets Stored Power. You know me. I love me some Stored Power shenanigans, SO I gave Meloetta the hugest buff shes ever gonna get.
Shift Gear + Boomburst + Throat Spray gives some nice stat boosts, pair that with charge beam and you're rocking. (literally.) You could run Technician instead but thats pretty redundant.
I have no SpD (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Guard Swap
- Mud-Slap
- Clear Smog
- Recover
Blissey that can change its defense stat with a chance to burn, plus Macargo gets Recover for some reason, so thats fun.
Autobots Rollout (Regirock) @ Room Service /
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rollout
- Curse
- Power Trick
- Earthquake
Regirock has 200 base Def. if you use Curse with Power Trick you're gonna be doing insane damage and it lowers your speed so in Trick Romm you're gonna go first. The donor is Forretres btw. You could give him a Wide Lens too if you wanted him to hit every Rollout.
Monke. (Monferno) @ Eviolite
Ability: Simple
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Curse
- Flame Charge
- Body Press
- Earthquake
Donor's Numel and this sets pretty cool. Curse to raise Def and Atk alot and since its STAB, body press and flame charge are gonna do more damage and the Eviolite make monferno bulkier than Infernape. Plus its funny to think that a small infant child does more than it's evolution. Flame Charge is there to make you fast again
No, im not Sorry. (Chansey) (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Synchronize
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Transform
- Anything
- Idk
- This should be banned.
Need I explain this one? I think I must. Chansey's HP with Eviolite and Transform? This set came from the depths of Tartarus itself.
Flying crab (Gliscor) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Early Bird
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 244 HP / 192 Def / 72 Spe
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Acrobatics
- Acupressure
- Rest
Infinite stat boots.
rip her lungs (Meloetta) @ Throat Spray
Ability: Punk Rock
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shift Gear
- Boomburst
- Stored Power
- Charge Beam
Yeah so Tox gets Stored Power. You know me. I love me some Stored Power shenanigans, SO I gave Meloetta the hugest buff shes ever gonna get.
Shift Gear + Boomburst + Throat Spray gives some nice stat boosts, pair that with charge beam and you're rocking. (literally.) You could run Technician instead but thats pretty redundant.
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Iron Defense is not boosting your damage, since Power Trick only swaps the raw stats. Also, Leftovers is probably much better than Sitrus on an Accupressure + Rest set.Some goofy ahh sets I cooked up
I have no SpD (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Guard Swap
- Mud-Slap
- Clear Smog
- Recover
Blissey that can change its defense stat with a chance to burn, plus Macargo gets Recover for some reason, so thats fun.
Autobots Rollout (Regirock) @ Room Service /
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rollout
- Iron Defense
- Power Trick
- Earthquake
Regirock has 200 base Def. if you use Iron Defense with Power Trick you're gonna be doing insane damage. This would probably only work in trick room so I gave him Room Service and Rollout (which is technically the strongest move in the game) the donor is Forretres btw. You could give him a Wide Lens too if you wanted him to hit every Rollout.
Monke. (Monferno) @ Eviolite
Ability: Simple
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Curse
- Flame Charge
- Body Press
- Earthquake
Donor's Numel and this sets pretty cool. Curse to raise Def and Atk alot and since its STAB, body press and flame charge are gonna do more damage and the Eviolite make monferno bulkier than Infernape. Plus its funny to think that a small infant child does more than it's evolution. Flame Charge is there to make you fast again
No, im not Sorry. (Chansey) (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Synchronize
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Transform
- Anything
- Idk
- This should be banned.
Need I explain this one? I think I must. Chansey's HP with Eviolite and Transform? This set came from the depths of Tartarus itself.
Flying crab @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Early Bird
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 244 HP / 192 Def / 72 Spe
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Acrobatics
- Acupressure
- Rest
Infinite stat boots.
rip her lungs (Meloetta) @ Throat Spray
Ability: Punk Rock
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shift Gear
- Boomburst
- Stored Power
- Charge Beam
Yeah so Tox gets Stored Power. You know me. I love me some Stored Power shenanigans, SO I gave Meloetta the hugest buff shes ever gonna get.
Shift Gear + Boomburst + Throat Spray gives some nice stat boosts, pair that with charge beam and you're rocking. (literally.) You could run Technician instead but thats pretty redundant.
Yeah just realized that hours ago, changed it to Curse. The Sitrus is to eat when he uses sub so Acro gets boosted.
Also just realized guard swap doesn't do what i thought it does.
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I got some news
Good as Gold's impact on the tier has been much more meager in comparison. Between Gholdengo's inflexible movepool and Defoggers this generation ranging from underwhelming to bad the ability to block the move hasn't been that useful, and thus its usage has been rare. However, with the ability to consistently set hazards now in the tier, hazard stacking of all kind has been buffed immensely, so we expect that Defoggers will suddenly become a bit more common to counteract this. The ability to block hazard removal of all kind is still very unhealthy, even if it seldom seems true utility, which is why GaG has to go. While this means that you can no longer use Gholdengo as a donor, you can still use it as an inheritor
What's next:
Hazard stacking
Hstack has recieved some significant changes with these bans. On the one hand you can finally click rocks without any repercussion, but on the other you just have to take the Defog. The biggest effect imo now is that Hazard stacking leads have gone from unreliable to potentially super broken, since hazard removal is still terrible in current tier. Hazard stacking being good is a result of a lot of factors and there isn't one good way to nerf it. The council has talked about many potential fixes to this, including the nuclear option that would be to ban Spikes as a whole, but thats in extreme case of emergency and for now we'll see how the meta develops
Enamorus-I
Enamorus is currently legal in the ongoing Inheritour, and so far it has seemed to be pretty fair. I've personally have yet to actually play against it, but the rest of the council does believe that its fine. Whatever desition we make on it will wait until the tournament finishes.
Thank you dhelmise in advance for implementing the changes
| Vote | DOn VAscuS | pannu | anaconja | BijouMode | Dunfan | RESULT |
| Magic Bounce | BAN | BAN | ABS | BAN | BAN | 4-0-1 BAN |
| Good as Gold | BAN | DNB | BAN | BAN | BAN | 4-1 BAN |
Magic Bounce and Good as Gold are Banned From Inheritance!
Magic Bounce has been a noxious presence on the tier ever since it started stabilizing. It has one big effect on every game its in: it invalidates the hazard game for one side. If you run into it all of a sudden wherever or not you get to even set hazards on the field becomes a question of "can you threaten the Magic Bouncer so that it cant just switch in for free?", whose answer is often no. This gives a giant safety net for many teams, most notably stall teams who are free to switch around without thinking of taking even 12% every time they enter. While Enamorus-T has been the most common user of this ability since the beginning, people have experimented with Deoxys-D and Ting-Lu as well, and people can still develop anywhere should they wish to thanks to how Inheritance works. In short, this ability made the hazard meta into a matchup fish rigged against you, even despite the opportunity cost of running it over other abilities such as Unaware or Magic Guard, which is why we have concluded that it should be banned
Good as Gold's impact on the tier has been much more meager in comparison. Between Gholdengo's inflexible movepool and Defoggers this generation ranging from underwhelming to bad the ability to block the move hasn't been that useful, and thus its usage has been rare. However, with the ability to consistently set hazards now in the tier, hazard stacking of all kind has been buffed immensely, so we expect that Defoggers will suddenly become a bit more common to counteract this. The ability to block hazard removal of all kind is still very unhealthy, even if it seldom seems true utility, which is why GaG has to go. While this means that you can no longer use Gholdengo as a donor, you can still use it as an inheritor
What's next:
Hazard stacking
Hstack has recieved some significant changes with these bans. On the one hand you can finally click rocks without any repercussion, but on the other you just have to take the Defog. The biggest effect imo now is that Hazard stacking leads have gone from unreliable to potentially super broken, since hazard removal is still terrible in current tier. Hazard stacking being good is a result of a lot of factors and there isn't one good way to nerf it. The council has talked about many potential fixes to this, including the nuclear option that would be to ban Spikes as a whole, but thats in extreme case of emergency and for now we'll see how the meta develops
Enamorus-I
Enamorus is currently legal in the ongoing Inheritour, and so far it has seemed to be pretty fair. I've personally have yet to actually play against it, but the rest of the council does believe that its fine. Whatever desition we make on it will wait until the tournament finishes.
Thank you dhelmise in advance for implementing the changes
*Glances at Don’s post on council banning Magic Bounce because it’s broken on Stall*
*Glances at ladder peak*
Yeah. That’s a good call, guys.
Once Drought got banned, Stall was free to feast. I decided to do a fresh account ladder after it was implemented and when Inh became OM of the month due to the traffic boost. Despite a few losses due to carelessness (and some to queuing issues like Gary), I honestly had zero bad MUs with the Magic Bounce Ting-Lu and NGas Dengo team.
I had fun. I had never peaked a ladder before!
————————
I’m excited to see how the meta develops after the bans are implemented. Balance and especially Stall take a hit without Magic Bounce deterring hazards and status. Taunt will become better, both in response to Magic Guard and Good as Gold being gone, as well as Defog becoming a better hazard removal option.
I imagine HDB will become much more common on Regenerator spinners on Balance, while Stall will either need to run double hazard removal to be viable, or more practically adopt a Superman structure, using Magic Guard / Levitate as good Knock Off absorbers, with HDBs on all the other members and just ignoring them all together.
HO gets way better with Magic Bounce yeeted. Suicide leads get way better. I imagine we’ll see a lot of Deoxys-S in our future, with these being the four best flavors:
https://pokepast.es/ea788e567d6e3163
Look forward to a lot of HO games being decided on the turns 1-2 speed tie.
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Hi there
Would you please do my Tier Survey?
Inheritance is performing its second tiering survey! please fill it out
Inheritance is performing its second tiering survey! please fill it out
Hi guys, I've answered the survey but I'd like to develop more here.
To be honest I've never really enjoyed the tier this gen. I might be the only one feeling this way but let me know about your own experience.
I've played about +50 games on ladder - which is quite low obviously but the ladder is quite dead in EU during the day - and reached until 1250 or so, but I never had some fun so far as a very casual player.
Regarding the meta I wouldn't say hazard stacking is too strong but from my experience this archetype seems to be the n°1 way-to-go despite Cyclizar being everywhere as a donor. The meta tends to be really defensive at high level and some of the most defensive mons can handle almost everything easily.
I have nothing against (very) defensive playstyles particularly but they just waste my own experience: waiting about 10 mn and facing (semi) stall teams is everything but fun to me.
I think unbanning some strong mons could solve this problem (Enamorous), and GaG being gone could make it better.
That being said, I don't think the recent bans are the problem, but I enjoyed Inheritance so much in the previous gens.
See you around!
To be honest I've never really enjoyed the tier this gen. I might be the only one feeling this way but let me know about your own experience.
I've played about +50 games on ladder - which is quite low obviously but the ladder is quite dead in EU during the day - and reached until 1250 or so, but I never had some fun so far as a very casual player.
Regarding the meta I wouldn't say hazard stacking is too strong but from my experience this archetype seems to be the n°1 way-to-go despite Cyclizar being everywhere as a donor. The meta tends to be really defensive at high level and some of the most defensive mons can handle almost everything easily.
I have nothing against (very) defensive playstyles particularly but they just waste my own experience: waiting about 10 mn and facing (semi) stall teams is everything but fun to me.
I think unbanning some strong mons could solve this problem (Enamorous), and GaG being gone could make it better.
That being said, I don't think the recent bans are the problem, but I enjoyed Inheritance so much in the previous gens.
See you around!
I definitely understand where you're coming from here, as at times, the tier has seemed overly defensive and stiff to me as well, and especially with hazard stack. However, I think that right now, that isn't really the case. For example, with the hazard stack problem, i've found using defoggers such as Talonflame!Corviknight or Gliscor has been effective, especially with Good as Gold banned, as they can provide defensive utility while keeping hazards off. To help vs defensive playstyles, generally powerful breakers and cleaners combined with hazard pressure, e.g. Band Perrserker!Sneasler + Rocks from Arcanine-Hisui!Iron Hands, or Roaring Moon!Landorus-Therian coming in on various defensive staples such as Goodra-Hisui or Iron Hands. Anyway, tldr: use stronk breakers, use taunt, use defog and use hazards.
I exclusively play offense, and while I kinda see where issues with stall and defensive playstyles come from the answers offensive playstyles have are just as potent. Sheer Force mixed attackers slotting in Close Combat ruin Hoodra virtually every time, with Magic Bounce gone non-Mold Breaker status users are more potent (and Mold Breaker boosters are still as strong with dealing with other defensive Abilities as ever), and button clickers like Tough Claws Roaring Moon and Mega Launcher Darkrai can often demand specific answers that are easy set-up bait for teammates. I consider it a sign of a balanced tier if defensive teams are strong, however, and ladders should often become more defensive the higher you climb due to their inherent lower variance. If the top of the ladder is dominated by HO there's a problem.
With Good as Gold gone, hazard stack is no longer an issue for me. Defog has been extremely powerful ever since it was buffed to clear both sides of hazards and only a supremely strong teambuilder (shoutout to Kokoloko, I remember Empire) or Gholdengo (whaaat the fuck were they thinking blocking all hazard removal on a good Pokemon?) has made hazard stack viable/OP since then. Cyclizar remains one of the most popular donors in the tier and has zero issue getting a Spin off, if for whatever reason freed Defog is no good for you (me, I'm a hater, I use Torkoal!Iron Moth).
I wrote in Unburden to be looked at. I thought I had it mostly solved with Neutralizing Gas and then I got danced on by a Roaring Moon that outsped my Iron Moth. I'm probably just still bad at teambuilding. Looking forward to Enamorus being unbanned after Inheritour. It's a powerful mixed attacker like its siblings but suffers from a mediocre speed tier and poor bulk, hindering its ability to clean. The Braviary-H set I used against Greybaum is identical to sets I've used on Tornadus and Thundurus in generations prior, and is arguably better on them due to their higher speed tier (you don't get instantly outsped and obliterated by IM) and Thundurus's own immunity to paralysis. Unfortunately for Noctowl, it doesn't get Psyshock which means any Tinted Lens set you want to run (double dance probably could be devastating) is still auto-walled by Hoodra, who can slot Steel coverage to smoke you. Maybe someone will create a world ender in the next two rounds, but I think with Valiant gone Enamorus-I will be balanced.
With Good as Gold gone, hazard stack is no longer an issue for me. Defog has been extremely powerful ever since it was buffed to clear both sides of hazards and only a supremely strong teambuilder (shoutout to Kokoloko, I remember Empire) or Gholdengo (whaaat the fuck were they thinking blocking all hazard removal on a good Pokemon?) has made hazard stack viable/OP since then. Cyclizar remains one of the most popular donors in the tier and has zero issue getting a Spin off, if for whatever reason freed Defog is no good for you (me, I'm a hater, I use Torkoal!Iron Moth).
I wrote in Unburden to be looked at. I thought I had it mostly solved with Neutralizing Gas and then I got danced on by a Roaring Moon that outsped my Iron Moth. I'm probably just still bad at teambuilding. Looking forward to Enamorus being unbanned after Inheritour. It's a powerful mixed attacker like its siblings but suffers from a mediocre speed tier and poor bulk, hindering its ability to clean. The Braviary-H set I used against Greybaum is identical to sets I've used on Tornadus and Thundurus in generations prior, and is arguably better on them due to their higher speed tier (you don't get instantly outsped and obliterated by IM) and Thundurus's own immunity to paralysis. Unfortunately for Noctowl, it doesn't get Psyshock which means any Tinted Lens set you want to run (double dance probably could be devastating) is still auto-walled by Hoodra, who can slot Steel coverage to smoke you. Maybe someone will create a world ender in the next two rounds, but I think with Valiant gone Enamorus-I will be balanced.
https://pokepast.es/3c4a264e4d1e92e7
How would I go about answering triage in this team?
How would I go about answering triage in this team?
I would say that team should slot Taunt onto Corviknight over either U-Turn or Parting Shot (it doesn’t need two pivot moves) which helps prevent Triage from snowballing, while helping dismantle fat, and then utilize Knock Off/Iron Head on Hoodra (or Sneasler if Triage hasn’t gotten too many boosts).
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Is this really the reason for banning Magic Bounce? I can't mindlessly stack hazards? There are so many ways to play around MB an get up hazards if that is your main strategy. Mold Breaker, Neutralizing Gas, Toxic Debris, Stone Axe all bypass Magic Bounce. And I hate this cliche, but you can literally just play around the Magic Bounce Mon. Only ONE pokemon can use the ability, I can understand if there were multiple that can use it but can we really not play around a single ability? And most stall teams I've run into run Heavy Duty Boots on everything anyway.
The use of Mold Breaker hazards is generally nigh unviable, with the only donor with recovery is Ogerpon-Hearthflame, something that requires the Hearthflame Mask to be used, and provides little to no other defensive utility, outside of facing Magic Bounce. Another Mold Breaker-esque way of setting hazards is with the Mycelium Might donor Toedscruel, however, this runs into the same problem of Ogerpon-Hearthflame with little to no defensive utility and also has no reliable recovery.
Regarding, Neutralising Gas and Toxic Debris to a certain extent, the utility of Toxic Spikes is very variable as of right now as they can be ignored entirely by the very common HDB or meta staples such as Gholdengo, Corviknight, and Goodra-Hisui, and they are also absorbed by other common mons such as Sneasler or Fezandipiti. Generally, Toxic Debris generally can't even get hazards up as normally Magic Bounce users are special attackers, and obviously the TDebris user loses.
Stone Axe is locked to one pokemon with minimal coverage and while the attacker can exert offensive power outside with Sharpness' power boost, the use of Stone Axe is locked to very certain offensive builds who can fit that type of breaker/sweeper.
In general, a point that I feel that is underemphasised is that the Magic Bounce pokemon, outside of blocking hazard stack, can also become a incredibly dangerous set-up sweeper, cleaning out teams without sufficient firepower.
The combination of all these factors, makes Magic Bounce an unhealthy factor in the metagame. However, you suggested that you can just "play around it", could you elaborate?
To add to the above, part of the issue is that Abilities aren't revealed on team preview and Espeon and Hatterene both provide varied enough sets that lend themselves to a few different mons whose counterplay are too different to reasonably prepare for, leaving you with "only use status moves with Mold Breaker or Mycellium Might, lest you risk eating your own Stealth Rocks" which is obviously way too restrictive. We'd need at least donor revealed on team preview to keep from being randomly shut down.
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