Landorus (QC 1/3)

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[OVERVIEW]

* Sheer Force in combination with Life Orb and its wide variety of moves make Landorus a threatening wallbreaker.
* Base 101 Speed is by no means bad and allows it to outspeed quite a few Pokemon like Lunala and Xerneas; it still leaves it too slow against Pokemon like Arceus-Water, Arceus-Ground, and Mega Lucario.
* Landorus faces a lot of competition from other Ground-type Pokemon like Arceus-Ground, Zygarde-C, and Primal Groudon, but it differentiates itself from these Ground-types as it is immune to Ground-type attacks and has a better immediate wallbreaking presence.
* While Landorus performs well against Bulky teams, it tends to struggle against more offensively oriented teams due to its rather lacking Speed tier.

[SET]
name: Wallbreaker
move 1: Earth Power
move 2: Rock Slide
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Stealth Rock / Knock Off
item: Life Orb
ability: Sheer Force
nature: Naive
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Earth Power is Landorus' best STAB move, and gets boosted by Sheer Force, it can rarely OHKO Specially Defensive Primal Groudon and can 2HKO Pokemon like Xerneas and Mega Sableye.
* Rock Slide is boosted by Sheer Force and allows Landorus to deal with Flying-types like Ho-Oh and Yveltal, which may try to switch in on Earth Power.
* Hidden Power Ice can OHKO Rayquaza and Mega Salamence, while allowing it to 2HKO Zygarde-C, which can otherwise take any other hit Landorus might attack them with.
* Stealth Rock is the best entry hazard in the game and Landorus can effectively set them up because, it can threaten many common Defog users.
* Knock Off can cripple walls that depend on their item like Chansey, Lugia, Bronzong, Skarmory, and Celesteela, to prevent them from freely coming in on Landorus.

Set Details
========

* Maximum Special Attack and Speed investment maximize Landorus' offensive potential.
* Naive nature is preferred over Timid because it improves the damage output of Rock Slide and Knock Off.
* Sheer Force in conjunction with Life Orb gives Landorus a 1.69x boost to any move that has a secondary effect and negates Life Orb recoil.

Usage Tips
========

* Because of Landorus' ability to force a lot of switches against Pokemon like Primal Groudon and Magearna, whenever one is forced use this turn to set up Stealth Rock.
* Landorus should be used to punch holes through walls like Ho-Oh, Toxapex, and Primal Groudon early- to mid-game for another teammate to clean up in the late-game.
* Landorus may have a favorable matchup against most Primal Groudons it has to be wary of Primal Groudons that carry either Overheat or Lava Plume as they can OHKO and 2HKO Landorus respectively.
* Whenever predicting Pokemon like Celesteela, Bronzong, or Chansey to switch in, use Knock Off to remove their item and permanently cripple them.
* Hidden Power Ice should be used minimally and only if the opponent has a Pokemon that gets hit harder by Hidden Power Ice then any other move Landorus carries with it.

Team Options
========

* Offensively oriented teams appreciate Landorus' ability to break down walls.
* Hazard stacking teams massively benefit Landorus, since after entry hazard damage Landorus picks up quite a few KOs and 2HKOs, which it would otherwise miss out on.
* Ground-type Pokemon like Arceus-Ground and Primal Groudon have similar checks, allowing them to overwhelm their checks for one another to effectively break through the opposing team.
* Mega Gengar and Gothitelle can trap Pokemon that Landorus tends to struggle with like Lugia, Celesteela, Blissey, and Bronzong.
* Landorus has a hard time to switch in due to its only average bulk, U-turn users like Yveltal and Mega Scizor can let Landorus safely switch in.
* Pokemon that can set up Sticky Web like Shuckle and Smeargle, greatly support Landorus since once they have set up Sticky Web any grounded Pokemon gets slowed down, allowing Landorus to outspeed them.
* Dark-types like Yveltal and Arceus-Dark are good teammates because they can pressure some of Landorus's best answers in Giratina-O and Lugia. Yveltal is exceptionally good with it because of their offensive synergy, it also helps against Marshadow and Mega Gengar, and also provides a sturdier Ground-type switch in.
* Geomancy Xerneas is a good option because Landorus pressures the many Steel-types that Xerneas struggles against, it can also lure in Ho-Oh with Rock Slide. In return, Xerneas can break past Steel-types that Landorus struggles against with Thunder and Focus Blast, such as Ferrothorn, Celesteela, and Skarmory.
* Necrozma-DM benefits from Landorus's ability to threaten Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh, set up sets can act as a succesfull cleaner while support variants can be used to forego Stealth Rock and Landorus and to check Arceus-Water and Arceus-Fairy.
* Marshadow can take on Swords Dance Arceus-formes like Arceus and Arceus-Ghost, it can also deal with Blissey and Chansey, which are nuisances to Landorus. In return Landorus can deal with Primal Groudon and Toxapex, some of the best defensive answers to Marshadow in the metagame.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Focus Blast allows Landorus to OHKO Shuca Berry Dialga and 2HKO Skarmory, Celesteela, and Bronzong, however it is generally not preferred due to its inaccuracy.
* Explosion can be used on hazard stacking teams because, it lets Landorus prevent opposing Pokemon from removing entry hazards off the field, however this is very team specific.
* Sludge Wave can heavily dent Xerneas, but fails to OHKO it, allowing Xerneas to potentially set up with Geomancy.
* Rock Polish boosts Landorus' speed by 2 stages and can patch up its troubles against faster Pokemon, however, Landorus does not have the moveslot to fit Rock Polish in most of the time.
* Gravity can be used to allow Landorus to hit Pokemon that normally check it like Celesteela, Skarmory, and Bronzong, however it also leaves Landorus and its team vulnerable to Ground-type attacks.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Giratina-O**: Giratina-O is immune to Earth Power, takes almost nothing from Rock Slide and Knock Off, while only being 3HKOd by Hidden Power Ice, however, lack of reliable recovery makes Giratina-O easy to wear down over time.

**Yveltal**: Offensive variants of Yveltal can OHKO Landorus with Dark Pulse and is immune to Earth Power, though it has to be wary of Rock Slide. Healthy defensive variants can effectively wall it as they don't take enough damage from Rock Slide to 2HKO it. Choice Scarf Yveltal can effectively revenge kill a weakened Landorus.

**Lugia**: Despite getting its item removed by Knock Off Lugia takes relatively nothing from any other move Landorus might use on it, as Rock Slide fails to 2HKO.

**Chansey and Blissey**: Chansey and Blissey can tank any hit that Landorus can use, however, especially Chansey, has to watch out for Knock Off since removing its Eviolite will greatly cut into its bulk.

**Faster Attackers**: Pokemon like Mega Lucario, Mewtwo, Mega Salamence, Xerneas, and Deoxys-A, which are naturally faster than Landorus and can easily threaten it with Iron Tail, Ice Beam, Double Edge, Moonblast, and Psycho Boost, respectively. Mega Gengar can effectively trap Landorus and can OHKO it with a bit of chip damage, the rare Icy Wind is also capable of outright OHKOing it. Priority users like Extreme Killer Arceus and Rayquaza bypass Landorus's Speed tier no matter what and can revenge kill it if its weakened.

**Skarmory, Celesteela, and Bronzong**: Skarmory, Celesteela, and Bronzong take relatively nothing from anything Landorus wants to use on them, except for Knock Off and the rare Focus Blast. Gravity Landorus can also deal with them relatively well since it allows Landorus to hit them with Earth Power.

**Ferrothorn**: Ferrothorn can stall out Landorus with Leech Seed and Protect, Earth Power does do considerable damage however and it has to be wary of Focus Blast.

**Primal Kyogre**: Primal Kyogre has great special bulk and can switch in on Earth Power, with Stealth Rock off the field, and retaliate with a powerful rain-boosted STAB Water attack.

**Fast Support Arceus Formes**: Landorus is relatively weak to support Arceus formes that are known for carrying Ice Beam in their arsenal like Arceus-Ground and Arceus-Dark. Arceus-Water can threaten Landorus with its STAB Judgement.
 
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he is not, if he had defog he would have to lose the utility for offense teams, it is not something like lugia, it cant take many hits but can be a wallbreaker
 
Landorus is a pretty bad Pokemon which I don't think the overview covers properly. It can't switch into anything that isn't a predicted non attack and win. Ground/Rock coverage Groudons are pretty damn rare and its more likely Landorus is taking a Fire-type move if it isnt switching into a Groudon setting SR. Landorus was pretty low tier even when support Arceus were generally aiming for base 100s and not the Lucario+ tiers they are now - Landorus can't pressure them properly without taking big risks, and it doesn't 2HKO them often without SR (which it is trying to set...):

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Water: 196-231 (44.1 - 52%)
Base 101 Speed is by no means bad and allows it to outspeed quite a few Pokemon like Mega Salamence
I'm gonna assume this is referring to "common Mega Salamence spreads", which is true for nearly all DD sets, but Jolly (Defog) sets are still faster. Look for different mons here.
* Base 101 Speed is by no means bad and allows it to outspeed quite a few Pokemon like Mega Salamence and Xerneas, however it still leaves it too slow against Pokemon like Arceus-Water, Arceus-Ground, and Mega Metagross.
This mon is pretty irrelevant now, a similarly fast mon that 101 isn't reaching would be something like Lucario.
* Sheer Force in conjunction with Life Orb gives Landorus a 1.69x boost to any move that has a secondary effect.
It also doesn't take LO recoil which is a pretty notable trait.
* Because of Landorus' ability to force a lot of switches, whenever one is forced use this turn to set up Stealth Rock.
note what it can force out
* Landorus should be used to punch holes early- to mid-game for another teammate to clean up.
examples - what is it breaking, and for who?


I'll take another look after the changes.
 
Landorus is a pretty bad Pokemon which I don't think the overview covers properly. It can't switch into anything that isn't a predicted non attack and win. Ground/Rock coverage Groudons are pretty damn rare and its more likely Landorus is taking a Fire-type move if it isnt switching into a Groudon setting SR. Landorus was pretty low tier even when support Arceus were generally aiming for base 100s and not the Lucario+ tiers they are now - Landorus can't pressure them properly without taking big risks, and it doesn't 2HKO them often without SR (which it is trying to set...):

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Water: 196-231 (44.1 - 52%)

I'm gonna assume this is referring to "common Mega Salamence spreads", which is true for nearly all DD sets, but Jolly (Defog) sets are still faster. Look for different mons here.

This mon is pretty irrelevant now, a similarly fast mon that 101 isn't reaching would be something like Lucario.

It also doesn't take LO recoil which is a pretty notable trait.

note what it can force out

examples - what is it breaking, and for who?


I'll take another look after the changes.
implemented.
 
* Earth Power is Landorus' best STAB move, and gets boosted by Sheer Force that can OHKO Specially Defensive Primal Groudon
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 351-416 (87 - 103.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
add a "rarely" or something - 19% is a pretty low chance. or is it in pokemon?

usage tips needs to note about being careful around fire move groudon.
* Focus Blast allows Landorus to OHKO Shuca Berry Dialga and Extreme Killer Arceus
most ekillers are chople. even if it was something like jolly life orb which no longer exists, focus blast is still an unfavorable roll.
* Sludge Wave can heavily dent Xerneas, but fails to OHKO it, allowing Xerneas to set up with Geomancy and potentially sweep.
this kinda assumption is bad - analyses should never assume or guess the state of the game in this way... assuming its geomancy is also sketchy, but my main issue is the "potentially sweep" thing. reword this and avoid it in future.

QC 1/3
 
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 351-416 (87 - 103.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
add a "rarely" or something - 19% is a pretty low chance. or is it in pokemon?

usage tips needs to note about being careful around fire move groudon.

most ekillers are chople. even if it was something like jolly life orb which no longer exists, focus blast is still an unfavorable roll.

this kinda assumption is bad - analyses should never assume or guess the state of the game in this way... assuming its geomancy is also sketchy, but my main issue is the "potentially sweep" thing. reword this and avoid it in future.

QC 1/3
Implemented.
 

charizard8888

Catch The Wave
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Not QC, just some suggestions
* Landorus is a good Stealth Rock setter because of its ability to pressure many common Defog users
Pressure Defog users such as? Mega Mence and?
You should either give some of their examples here or in Stealth Rock's bullet in the moves section.

* Landorus faces a lot of competition from other Ground-type Pokemon like Arceus-Ground, Zygarde-C, and Primal Groudon.
State its niche over them or what role can it play, why should one even use this Pokemon over them.

* Landorus may have a favorable matchup against most Primal Groudons it has to be wary of Primal Groudons that carry either Overheat or Lava Plume as they can OHKO and 2HKO Landorus respectively.
Maybe you should remove the part saying Lava Plume 2HKO since if Pdon doesnt OHKO then Landorus would KO it with Earth Power before Pdon gets a chance to attack. So it'd lose in 1v1.

* Hidden Power Ice should be used minimally and only if the opponent has a Pokemon that gets hit harder by Hidden Power Ice then any other move Landorus carries with it.
I think this is understood since its a coverage move and what it OHKOes / 2HKOes has been stated in its bullet in the Moves section. So maybe remove from here.

**Giratina-O**: Giratina-O is immune to Earth Power, takes almost nothing from Rock Slide and Knock Off, while only being 3HKOd by Hidden Power Ice, however, lack of reliable recovery makes Giratina-O easy to wear down over time.
Just remove Rock Slide's mention here. Doesnt make any difference.

You can add in a header here for Ice-type Attacks then say that its 4x weakness to Ice can be exploited by Pokemon that carry such moves like Arceus formes, Marshadow as they'd mostly OHKO it.
 
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Not QC, just some suggestions

Pressure Defog users such as? Mega Mence and?
You should either give some of their examples here or in Stealth Rock's bullet in the moves section.


State its niche over them or what role can it play, why should one even use this Pokemon over them.


Maybe you should remove the part saying Lava Plume 2HKO since if Pdon doesnt OHKO then Landorus would KO it with Earth Power before Pdon gets a chance to attack. So it'd lose in 1v1.


I think this is understood since its a coverage move and what it OHKOes / 2HKOes has been stated in its bullet in the Moves section. So maybe remove from here.


Just remove Rock Slide's mention here. Doesnt make any difference.

You can add in a header here for Ice-type Attacks then say that its 4x weakness to Ice can be exploited by Pokemon that carry such moves like Arceus formes, Marshadow as they'd mostly OHKO it.
implemented some
 

Cynara

Banned deucer.
Not QC, but I feel some content can be polished up on this analysis.

Overview:

* Landorus is a good Stealth Rock setter because of its ability to pressure many common Defoggers like Mega Salamence and Lugia unfortunately, the surge of faster support Arceus formes makes it unable to pressure these Pokemon well.
I don't think Landorus is good at doing this at all, Lugia isn't pressured at all by Landorus and walls it and able to get a Toxic off or some variants are able to OHKO with Ice Beam. Landorus in particular has troubles with common defoggers such as Giratina-O (which it can't stay in against), you have the Support arcs mention already however. - Landorus is quite frail and doesn't have many opportunities to keep SR up against these stronger defoggers either.

Team options

I would add the following to team options:
  • Dark Types such as Yveltal and Arceus-Dark to deal with Landorus's most common answers such as Giratina-O and Lugia. Yveltal in particular itself has a good offensive synergy and helps deal with Marshadow and Gengar and provides a slightly more reliable and additional ground immunity.
  • Geomancy Xerneas is also a solid team option offensively, having good synergy, Landorus also helps GeoXern find set up opportunities due to it's ability to threaten common bulky steels such as Magearna, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane and also lures Ho-Oh with Rock Slide, Xerneas would otherwise struggle to get past. Geoxern is also able to use Thunder / Focus Blast coverage to get past steels that Landorus usually struggles against like Skarmory, Celesteela and Ferrothorn and most importantly, an answer to Giratina-O that is otherwise able to defog against Landorus with ease.
  • Necrozma Dusk Mane appreciates Landorus's ability to threaten Primal Groudon and Ho-oH, Offensive sets such as Double Dance can function as a effective set up sweeper/cleaner and in return helps Landorus by dealing with Xerneas. Support variants of Dusk Mane can also be considered, especially if the Landorus user decides to forgo Stealth Rock for Knock Off, Defensive Dusk Mane is able to deal with the support Arceus formes that Landorus struggles against such as Water/Fairy Arceus and status them with Toxic or set up Stealth Rock.
  • Marshadow is able to take care of SD Arceus variants, especially E-killer / Ghost Arceus and dealing with Blissey / Chansey which wall Landorus. In return Landorus, deals with Pokemon that Marshadow cannot reliably KO such as Primal Groudon and deals with Toxapex which is one of the best defensive answers to Marshadow in the metagame.
Checks and Counters:

  • Yveltal - Offensive variants of Yveltal such as Life Orb are able to OHKO Landorus with Dark Pulse, immune to Earth Power and is able to switch in, but have to be careful of Rock Slide as Offensive Yveltal is 2HKO'd otherwise, Healthy defensive Yveltal is able to roost up on Landorus and effectively wall it otherwise, Scarf sets are able to revenge kill.
  • Faster attackers/Revenge Killers - Pokemon that are naturally faster, give Landorus some issues as most are able to outright KO them such as Mega lucario (Iron Tail after Stealth Rock), Mewtwo (Ice Beam) and Mega Salamence (Double Edge) and Deoxys-A (Ice Beam/Psycho Boost). Marshadow is able to outspeed and revenge kill Landorus with some chip, HP Ice variants are able to OHKO it. Mega Gengar is similar to Marshadow, but is able to trap it and pick it off, rare Icy Wind variants are able to OHKO. Scarf Variants of Xerneas are able to OHKO Landorus with Moonblast. Pokemon with naturally strong priority such as Rayquaza and Extreme Killer Arceus are able to bypass Landorus' speed tier and revenge kill if they are weakened by a fair amount.
  • Ferrothorn - this deserves a mention as it is able to stall out Landorus with Leech seed and Protect and deal with it by some extent, despite earth power doing a considerable amount of damage to it, Ferrothorn has to be wary of uncommon focus blast variants however.

That's all I have to add, I hope these suggestions help out with the analysis
 
Not QC, but I feel some content can be polished up on this analysis.

Overview:



I don't think Landorus is good at doing this at all, Lugia isn't pressured at all by Landorus and walls it and able to get a Toxic off or some variants are able to OHKO with Ice Beam. Landorus in particular has troubles with common defoggers such as Giratina-O (which it can't stay in against), you have the Support arcs mention already however. - Landorus is quite frail and doesn't have many opportunities to keep SR up against these stronger defoggers either.

Team options

I would add the following to team options:
  • Dark Types such as Yveltal and Arceus-Dark to deal with Landorus's most common answers such as Giratina-O and Lugia. Yveltal in particular itself has a good offensive synergy and helps deal with Marshadow and Gengar and provides a slightly more reliable and additional ground immunity.
  • Geomancy Xerneas is also a solid team option offensively, having good synergy, Landorus also helps GeoXern find set up opportunities due to it's ability to threaten common bulky steels such as Magearna, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane and also lures Ho-Oh with Rock Slide, Xerneas would otherwise struggle to get past. Geoxern is also able to use Thunder / Focus Blast coverage to get past steels that Landorus usually struggles against like Skarmory, Celesteela and Ferrothorn and most importantly, an answer to Giratina-O that is otherwise able to defog against Landorus with ease.
  • Necrozma Dusk Mane appreciates Landorus's ability to threaten Primal Groudon and Ho-oH, Offensive sets such as Double Dance can function as a effective set up sweeper/cleaner and in return helps Landorus by dealing with Xerneas. Support variants of Dusk Mane can also be considered, especially if the Landorus user decides to forgo Stealth Rock for Knock Off, Defensive Dusk Mane is able to deal with the support Arceus formes that Landorus struggles against such as Water/Fairy Arceus and status them with Toxic or set up Stealth Rock.
  • Marshadow is able to take care of SD Arceus variants, especially E-killer / Ghost Arceus and dealing with Blissey / Chansey which wall Landorus. In return Landorus, deals with Pokemon that Marshadow cannot reliably KO such as Primal Groudon and deals with Toxapex which is one of the best defensive answers to Marshadow in the metagame.
Checks and Counters:

  • Yveltal - Offensive variants of Yveltal such as Life Orb are able to OHKO Landorus with Dark Pulse, immune to Earth Power and is able to switch in, but have to be careful of Rock Slide as Offensive Yveltal is 2HKO'd otherwise, Healthy defensive Yveltal is able to roost up on Landorus and effectively wall it otherwise, Scarf sets are able to revenge kill.
  • Faster attackers/Revenge Killers - Pokemon that are naturally faster, give Landorus some issues as most are able to outright KO them such as Mega lucario (Iron Tail after Stealth Rock), Mewtwo (Ice Beam) and Mega Salamence (Double Edge) and Deoxys-A (Ice Beam/Psycho Boost). Marshadow is able to outspeed and revenge kill Landorus with some chip, HP Ice variants are able to OHKO it. Mega Gengar is similar to Marshadow, but is able to trap it and pick it off, rare Icy Wind variants are able to OHKO. Scarf Variants of Xerneas are able to OHKO Landorus with Moonblast. Pokemon with naturally strong priority such as Rayquaza and Extreme Killer Arceus are able to bypass Landorus' speed tier and revenge kill if they are weakened by a fair amount.
  • Ferrothorn - this deserves a mention as it is able to stall out Landorus with Leech seed and Protect and deal with it by some extent, despite earth power doing a considerable amount of damage to it, Ferrothorn has to be wary of uncommon focus blast variants however.

That's all I have to add, I hope these suggestions help out with the analysis
did
 
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