SM LC [LC] Stall in LC

[pokemonsta433]

Introduction​

Before we get any further, I thought I'd quickly mention that I know stall is not good in LC. Unfortunately, I have way too much time on my hands and as such enjoy the freelo that comes with playing stall (be it because your opponent on low-ladder doesn't have time for a full game, or because your opponent on high ladder happens to be solarspy and is very salty about everything. Regardless of the reason, I like to play stall, and I thought I'd make a semi-stall in LC.

Teambuilding Process

Ferroseed made sense as the first pokemon because it lays spikes, which is necessary for any self-respecting stall team, and it also deals with the most popular rapid spinners in the tier, Staryu and Drillbur. It is also good to note that every stall team needs 1-3 steel-types, as steel resists 11 of the 16 types in the game.

Munchlax was an easy choice as cutifly hadn't been banned yet, and a phaser fit well on the team anyways. Munchlax's ability (thick fat) also provided resistance to Ferroseed's biggest weakness - fire types.

At this point, there was a clear fighting-type weakness, and it needed to be stopped before it got out of hand. Spritzee was able to deal with fighting-types while also providing stall with it's access to wish/protect.

*A team that relies on spikes for a large portion of it's damage needs a spinblocker. While there are not many spinblockers in the tier as of yet (until floon comes back), it was still important to keep a frillish on the team for the will-o-wisp and the spinblocking capabilities. Frillish provides a second way to deal with fire-types.

Mudbray is great at stalling for time with it's access to stamina and resttalk. Overall a solid compliment to the team as it is.

While stall is pretty fun, it lacks kill potential in LC. As will-o-wisp only deals one damage per turn in this gen, it was important to keep a revenge killer on the team. Pawniard is the most used one in the tier, and as such I decided I would run it

The Team​

Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 84 HP / 36 Atk / 188 Def / 148 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Knock Off
- Bullet Seed
​

Ferroseed acts mainly as a spikesetter on this team. It is worth noting that it can take down a weak armor Vullaby/Dwebble with a single bullet seed (or if you don't kill you will at least cripple it badly)

Munchlax @ Berry Juice
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 76 Atk / 196 Def / 236 SpD
Careful Nature
- Recycle
- Body Slam
- Fire Punch
- Whirlwind
​

Munchlax has great stall potential. Anything that doesn't make it switch out gets phasered away, meaning that your opponent has to pray that whirlwind brings out their fighting type. The use of recycle also provides munchlax with the ability to stay alive when whirlwinding, to allow the fun to continue.

Spritzee @ Eviolite
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 212 HP / 196 Def / 12 SpA / 76 SpD / 12 spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Protect
- Moonblast
​

Spritzee is basically a knock-off switch as well as a vullaby check. It can set up on a variety of pokemon when the late game comes, and it's low special attack is mitigated by the damage of spikes combined with the boost from calm mind. Protect and wish allow for the damage from will-o-wisp to stack up without spritzee being hurt very much in return.

Frillish @ Eviolite
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 236 HP / 116 Def / 76 SpA / 76 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Shadow Ball
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
​

Frillish is there for two reasons. To spinblock (against teams that still have a spinner alive), and to burn. The team has a large amount of ways to avoid taking damage for a very long time, and burn lets the team fight back without lifting a finger, as well as providing a debuff to allow the team to live longer against physical sweeper.

Mudbray @ Eviolite
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 156 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
​

Mudbray can live for a long time. There's not much else to it, really. and Earthquake can kill a lot of things if it has to, meaning that frillish has somebody to hide behind when the electric-types come. Spritzee can also run from magneton with the help of mudbray, who takes no damage from volt-switch.

Pawniard @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Pursuit
- Brick Break
​

Pawniard revenge kills. Knock-off also gets rid of pesky eviolites, which gives the illusion that the rest of the team actually deals damage with their damaging moves. Pawniard also pursuit-traps anything that might be thinking about switching in future turns.

Conclusion​

I hope you all liked the team. The brotherhood of stall is always accepting more members, so feel free to try out the team yourself. I am also accepting criticism/suggestions, as I am no expert on the topic of little cup. Thanks for reading :)

Importable

Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 5
EVs: 84 HP / 36 Atk / 188 Def / 148 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Knock Off

Munchlax @ Berry Juice
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 5
EVs: 76 Atk / 196 Def / 236 SpD
Careful Nature
- Recycle
- Body Slam
- Fire Punch
- Whirlwind

Spritzee (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Aroma Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 212 HP / 196 Def / 12 SpA / 76 SpD / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Protect

Frillish @ Eviolite
Ability: Cursed Body
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 116 Def / 76 SpA / 76 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Shadow Ball
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp

Hippopotas @ Eviolite
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 5
EVs: 132 HP / 20 Atk / 132 Def / 180 SpD / 20 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind

Pawniard @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Pursuit
- Brick Break

DISCLAIMER: I know stall is bad in LC. I made this in hopes of coming as close to stall as I can, while still remaining at least somewhat competitively viable. I do not need to be reminded of this fact.

 

[doomsday doink]

There are a plethora of inconsistencies in your descriptions. You indicate that Ferroseed is a Spikes setter multiple times, including in the description for Spritzee, yet only have Stealth Rock on it. Also, I can assure you that Ferroseed's Bullet Seed is NOT dispatching Vullaby unless it's severely weakened beforehand. I'm going to offer suggestions in both teambuilding and the actual execution of the team, as I played you using this team last night. My main focus will be preserving the Whirlwind + hazards shenanigans that I know you adore.

I'd suggest changing Mudbray -> Hippopotas. Hippopotas still fulfills your need for a fat Ground-type while also introducing another Whirlwind user to the build; Hippopotas also has access to Stealth Rock, freeing up Ferroseed to change Stealth Rock -> Spikes. I'll enclose the Hippopotas set below. Note: The use of Sand Stream (vs Sand Force) as the ability is up to your discretion; it will nab some chip damage alongside your hazards and allow Hippopotas to check sun, but will also result in your Spritzee and Frillish taking unnecessary damage. I would personally opt for Sand Stream though.

Hippopotas

Hippopotas @ Eviolite
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 5
EVs: 132 HP / 20 Atk / 132 Def / 180 SpD / 20 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind

Potential Other Changes

In regards to your Munchlax EV spread, 13 Def vs 12 Def is notable for surviving a +2 Shellder Rock Blast, yet you (now) have two Pokemon with Whirlwind and a Pawniard. I'd personally use a spread of 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 SpD or a spread of 156 Atk / 116 Def / 236 SpD, both with an Adamant nature, to ensure some sort of offensive presence (especially with the removal of Mudbray from the team) from Munchlax while still ensuring it checks what it needs to. Though the departure of some SpD does leave it 2HKO'd by LO Abra's Psychic and LO Gastly's HP Fighting, Berry Juice should result in these being relatively unproblematic. You also have a Scarf Pawniard with Pursuit which serves as your primary means of picking off these Pokemon. Building off the EV suggestion, I think it's worth considering changing Munchlax's moveset from Body Slam -> Facade to ensure that Munchlax can serve as your primary answer to Ponyta, a Pokemon that's proven troublesome to the Ferroseed / Spritzee / Hippopotas core. It also makes up for the lack of Aromatherapy on Spritzee imo.

You may also consider increasing Frillish's SpD a tad to ensure it can survive the combination of Staryu's Analytic Thunderbolt + regular Thunderbolt after SR damage. It's a rather specific calc but it's reassuring to know that your Spinblocker can 100% do its job.

In regards to using the team more effectively: though it's usually considered an "autopilot" playstyle, stall requires really thinking out your turns and not making unnecessary predictions. Stall is meant to slow the game down a bit and your Pokemons' bulk should serve as a safety net of sorts; the only times you should be making bold predictions in the early (even mid) game is to force switches, stacking up hazard damage on your opponent's team. Additionally, considering you lack any form of hazard removal, you should strive to force matchups with your opponent's hazard setter(s) that allow you to punish clicking Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, etc. Spritzee should NOT be your immediate response to a Knock Off, as it requires its Eviolite to truly be successful in the late game with Calm Mind. I can elaborate on some of this should we play more matches but this is what I was able to gather from last night / reading over this RMT.

Stick around in LC!

 

[pokemonsta433]

Thank you for the rating!!! I have been looking for a way to add weather to the team without the use of Snover, as hail teams are pretty common right now. I'm glad that you provided feedback on our game, as you sorta scare me before the game and I feel as though I have to wow you with a "big move." I'll refrain from attempting to be flashy with this team in the future. What is your opinion of switching Ferroseed with Trubbish? I have noticed that trubbish would handle the likes of Snivy while still providing the team with spikes. As such I would have a good switch-in for knock-off that doesn't lose too hard to the various spinners.

As an additional note, should I make my changes on the main article, or am I to leave it outdated?

 

[MeepBard]

Thank you for the rating!!! I have been looking for a way to add weather to the team without the use of Snover, as hail teams are pretty common right now. I'm glad that you provided feedback on our game, as you sorta scare me before the game and I feel as though I have to wow you with a "big move." I'll refrain from attempting to be flashy with this team in the future. What is your opinion of switching Ferroseed with Trubbish? I have noticed that trubbish would handle the likes of Snivy while still providing the team with spikes. As such I would have a good switch-in for knock-off that doesn't lose too hard to the various spinners.

As an additional note, should I make my changes on the main article, or am I to leave it outdated?

While it's not necessary that you have to update it, it's usually preferred so that future RMTers who overlook the previous changes won't get confused.

 

[PsychoCut42]

omg your description bro lmao i played solarpsy like 3 times and he was so salty and annoying lmao, nice team bro

 

[Conni]

Hi there, im not on my computer so I cant give you a full suggestion but I just wanted to point out that you should write about all your moves and not just two or one, as I've seen that in your Pawniard paragraph, Iron Head and Brick Break aren't even mentioned; it is important to explain all your moves and other missing important details, after you finish that and I am available, I might go through this with more detail. Also try to be more detaild with your existing sentences as it is important to fully explain why the subject of topic is important and how it is beneficial, and what it does. I'm not an official team rater, so you can ignore this completely .

Have a good day.

 

[RedApp1e]

Introduction​

Before we get any further, I thought I'd quickly mention that I know stall is not good in LC. Unfortunately, I have way too much time on my hands and as such enjoy the freelo that comes with playing stall (be it because your opponent on low-ladder doesn't have time for a full game, or because your opponent on high ladder happens to be solarspy and is very salty about everything. Regardless of the reason, I like to play stall, and I thought I'd make a semi-stall in LC.

Teambuilding Process

Ferroseed made sense as the first pokemon because it lays spikes, which is necessary for any self-respecting stall team, and it also deals with the most popular rapid spinners in the tier, Staryu and Drillbur. It is also good to note that every stall team needs 1-3 steel-types, as steel resists 11 of the 16 types in the game.

Munchlax was an easy choice as cutifly hadn't been banned yet, and a phaser fit well on the team anyways. Munchlax's ability (thick fat) also provided resistance to Ferroseed's biggest weakness - fire types.

At this point, there was a clear fighting-type weakness, and it needed to be stopped before it got out of hand. Spritzee was able to deal with fighting-types while also providing stall with it's access to wish/protect.

*A team that relies on spikes for a large portion of it's damage needs a spinblocker. While there are not many spinblockers in the tier as of yet (until floon comes back), it was still important to keep a frillish on the team for the will-o-wisp and the spinblocking capabilities. Frillish provides a second way to deal with fire-types.

Mudbray is great at stalling for time with it's access to stamina and resttalk. Overall a solid compliment to the team as it is.

While stall is pretty fun, it lacks kill potential in LC. As will-o-wisp only deals one damage per turn in this gen, it was important to keep a revenge killer on the team. Pawniard is the most used one in the tier, and as such I decided I would run it

The Team​

Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 84 HP / 36 Atk / 188 Def / 148 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Knock Off
- Bullet Seed
​

Ferroseed acts mainly as a spikesetter on this team. It is worth noting that it can take down a weak armor Vullaby/Dwebble with a single bullet seed (or if you don't kill you will at least cripple it badly)

Munchlax @ Berry Juice
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 76 Atk / 196 Def / 236 SpD
Careful Nature
- Recycle
- Body Slam
- Fire Punch
- Whirlwind
​

Munchlax has great stall potential. Anything that doesn't make it switch out gets phasered away, meaning that your opponent has to pray that whirlwind brings out their fighting type. The use of recycle also provides munchlax with the ability to stay alive when whirlwinding, to allow the fun to continue.

Spritzee @ Eviolite
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 212 HP / 196 Def / 12 SpA / 76 SpD / 12 spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Protect
- Moonblast
​

Spritzee is basically a knock-off switch as well as a vullaby check. It can set up on a variety of pokemon when the late game comes, and it's low special attack is mitigated by the damage of spikes combined with the boost from calm mind. Protect and wish allow for the damage from will-o-wisp to stack up without spritzee being hurt very much in return.

Frillish @ Eviolite
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 236 HP / 116 Def / 76 SpA / 76 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Shadow Ball
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
​

Frillish is there for two reasons. To spinblock (against teams that still have a spinner alive), and to burn. The team has a large amount of ways to avoid taking damage for a very long time, and burn lets the team fight back without lifting a finger, as well as providing a debuff to allow the team to live longer against physical sweeper.

Mudbray @ Eviolite
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 156 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
​

Mudbray can live for a long time. There's not much else to it, really. and Earthquake can kill a lot of things if it has to, meaning that frillish has somebody to hide behind when the electric-types come. Spritzee can also run from magneton with the help of mudbray, who takes no damage from volt-switch.

Pawniard @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Pursuit
- Brick Break
​

Pawniard revenge kills. Knock-off also gets rid of pesky eviolites, which gives the illusion that the rest of the team actually deals damage with their damaging moves. Pawniard also pursuit-traps anything that might be thinking about switching in future turns.

Conclusion​

I hope you all liked the team. The brotherhood of stall is always accepting more members, so feel free to try out the team yourself. I am also accepting criticism/suggestions, as I am no expert on the topic of little cup. Thanks for reading :)

Importable

Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 5
EVs: 84 HP / 36 Atk / 188 Def / 148 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Knock Off

Munchlax @ Berry Juice
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 5
EVs: 76 Atk / 196 Def / 236 SpD
Careful Nature
- Recycle
- Body Slam
- Fire Punch
- Whirlwind

Spritzee (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Aroma Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 212 HP / 196 Def / 12 SpA / 76 SpD / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Protect

Frillish @ Eviolite
Ability: Cursed Body
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 116 Def / 76 SpA / 76 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Shadow Ball
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp

Mudbray @ Eviolite
Ability: Stamina
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 156 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Pawniard @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Pursuit
- Brick Break

DISCLAIMER: I know stall is bad in LC. I made this in hopes of coming as close to stall as I can, while still remaining at least somewhat competitively viable. I do not need to be reminded of this fact.

Hi - I'm not an expert at LC but some questions -
1. Why is Munchlax not invested in HP? Or is the base HP good enough for stall?
2. What are the speed EVs for on Ferroseed? Isn't it bulky enough - besides, Ferro only out speeds Munchlax and like 3 other mons.
3. I noticed you only have 1 special tank - Munchlax. Once Munchlax is down though, how do you deal with special attackers such as Abra (I know you have Pawniward) and how do you stop them from sweeping late-game?
4. More on that, maybe you could run a Specially Defensive instead of defensive - maybe like this?

Spritzee Set

Spritzee @ Eviolite
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 212 HP / 72 Def / 12 SpA / 156 SpD / 12 spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Protect
- Moonblast
​

Importable:
Spritzee (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Aroma Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 212 HP / 72 Def / 12 SpA / 156 SpD / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Protect

You can run the calcs yourself.

I also understand if you want a physically defensive biased team - so why not Slowpoke?
It does fine at killing and walling Fighting types and also has a higher physical defences.

Slowpoke Set

Slowpoke @ Evolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 196 HP / 236 Def / 36 SpA
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Scald
- Protect​

The EVs in HP and Def max out the stats. The rest is in Special Attack to deal some damage. Calm Mind can be used on switches to potentially start a sweep. Psychic is to kill fighting types - some of the best pokémon in LC are fighting - Mienfoo, for example.
Once again, run the calcs yourself. You'll be suprised at what this can tank.

Importable:

Slowpoke @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 156 Def / 36 SpA
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Scald
- Protect

Anyway, love the team and idea. Keep it up!

 

[pokemonsta433]

Hi - I'm not an expert at LC but some questions -
1. Why is Munchlax not invested in HP? Or is the base HP good enough for stall?
2. What are the speed EVs for on Ferroseed? Isn't it bulky enough - besides, Ferro only out speeds Munchlax and like 3 other mons.
3. I noticed you only have 1 special tank - Munchlax. Once Munchlax is down though, how do you deal with special attackers such as Abra (I know you have Pawniward) and how do you stop them from sweeping late-game?
4. More on that, maybe you could run a Specially Defensive instead of defensive - maybe like this?

Spritzee Set

Spritzee @ Eviolite
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 212 HP / 72 Def / 12 SpA / 156 SpD / 12 spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Protect
- Moonblast
​

Importable:
Spritzee (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Aroma Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 212 HP / 72 Def / 12 SpA / 156 SpD / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Protect

You can run the calcs yourself.

I also understand if you want a physically defensive biased team - so why not Slowpoke?
It does fine at killing and walling Fighting types and also has a higher physical defences.

Slowpoke Set

Slowpoke @ Evolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 196 HP / 236 Def / 36 SpA
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Scald
- Protect​

The EVs in HP and Def max out the stats. The rest is in Special Attack to deal some damage. Calm Mind can be used on switches to potentially start a sweep. Psychic is to kill fighting types - some of the best pokémon in LC are fighting - Mienfoo, for example.
Once again, run the calcs yourself. You'll be suprised at what this can tank.

Importable:

Slowpoke @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 156 Def / 36 SpA
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Scald
- Protect

Anyway, love the team and idea. Keep it up!

Acually, you bring up some good points! My Munchlax set is enough to survive two turns before recycling, and adding more HP will just make him take more burn damage, so it's alright, and the speed EVs on ferroseed are there because they won't actually increase any other stat if invested elsewhere, but you are right that special attackers tend to be annoying while playing this team. I have been able to check a lot of special attackers with type-advantages (frillish helps a lot when the opponent doesn't have a rapid spinner), however in the later stages of the game I am relying on my calm minds from spritzee to outlast most special attackers. While I ac see slowpoke working, I do not see a good spot to add him in without giving up on a rapid spinner. I may later make branch off of this team that attempts to remove pawniard entirely, and I'll try out slowpoke (maybe with sandyghast as a spinblocker lol). The spritzee set, I will definetly change. Thanks for the review, oh mighty one! :P

 

[RedApp1e]

Acually, you bring up some good points! My Munchlax set is enough to survive two turns before recycling, and adding more HP will just make him take more burn damage, so it's alright, and the speed EVs on ferroseed are there because they won't actually increase any other stat if invested elsewhere, but you are right that special attackers tend to be annoying while playing this team. I have been able to check a lot of special attackers with type-advantages (frillish helps a lot when the opponent doesn't have a rapid spinner), however in the later stages of the game I am relying on my calm minds from spritzee to outlast most special attackers. While I ac see slowpoke working, I do not see a good spot to add him in without giving up on a rapid spinner. I may later make branch off of this team that attempts to remove pawniard entirely, and I'll try out slowpoke (maybe with sandyghast as a spinblocker lol). The spritzee set, I will definetly change. Thanks for the review, oh mighty one! :P

Thanks a lot for the feedback on my idea!
I don't want to be nagging you, but I have recently taken a liking to Morelull because of strength sap in conjunction with that Spritzee I posted earlier. Here's the set:

Morelull Set

Morelull @ Eviolite/Leftovers/Kee Berry
Ability: Effect Spore
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 236 Def / 76 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strength Sap
- Giga Drain/Leech Seed
- Moonlight
- Protect

This is really good with Spritzee with the Special Defence and this with Strength Sap as an amazing physical tank.
Evolite is for extra bulk, Lefties for longetivity, and Kee Berry is normally used with leech seed as a replacement. Moonlight is decent recovery and protect is just for lols.
Other options are Leppa Berry if you run out of Strength Saps or Mirang Berry for Sp.Def, but this is supposed to be a physical tank.
(Nickname: More LOL - just a personal preference, but it's a good one.)
Fun Fact: I'm male.