Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread

From Corporal Levi


From Heysup


My question is a simple one: What is good creativity in Pokemon?

Because here's the thing: Skill Swap Spritzee and Payback Foongus and HP Poison Gothita fundamentally, are creative.

Simultaneously, nearly every vote that had a write up mentioned Gothita as restricting creativity in principle ("it restricts team building," "it strangles diversity," "it warps the meta," to name a few).

So what's good creativity?
Not sure where I mentioned anything about good or bad creativity. HP Poison Gothita is a tech to drop Cottonee - it has nothing to do with creativity, it was merely an attestation to Gothita's picking-off prowess. It's customize-able, you can drop almost anything that you can specifically choose.

But since you asked:

As for Skill Swap Spritzee and Payback Foongus: 1) those only deter Gothita, it's not like they really lure it per se. 2) it only works on certain types of Gothita, 3) they limit your capacity to do the actual job that you used that Pokemon for. If those mons are weakened, Gothita still picks them off without an opportunity to use regenerator or wish back to full against some Fighting-type.
 

freezai

Live for the Applause
is a Tiering Contributor
So this thread has been dead for a while, might as well revive it with something that I think is majorly overlooked right now and that I urge you all to give a shot with it:

Screens Offense via Vulpix-Alola

Traditionally, screens offensive teams have been nothing more than a gimmick because of a variety of flaws:
  • It takes too long to set up both of the pair. Finding two free turns against a good player is tough as it is, and most dual screen setters are nothing but a momentum suck because of the occupied moveslots
  • It's way too easy to just defog those screens away.
Simply put, its just more of a hassle than its worth to try and get screens up in a game.

But in LC, all that has changed with the addition of Aurora Veil on Alolan Vulpix as it removes both of those issues.



Vulpix-Alola @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 5
EVs: 52 HP / 196 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Aurora Veil
- Blizzard
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Freeze-Dry

As you probably know, Aurora Veil sets both screens up in one turn provided you have hail up. This is very significant as
  • a) you don't need to waste turns setting it up and
  • b) It frees up a moveslot on Alolan Vulpix.
This solves the traditional issues of Screens Offense as stated above. A-Vulpix is able to exert decent presence through STAB Blizzard and coverage moves and doesn't just invite every mon as typical screen setters do. Furthermore, A-Vulpix beats the only relevant defogger 1v1 (Vullaby) making Brick Break Pawniard the only way to get screens removed against an Alolan Vulpix.

The power of screens can not be stated enough; It allows the most volatile set up sweepers in the tier to circumvent their Achilles Heel: the struggle to find set up opportunities and ability to be revenge killed. Mindless offense can just go A-Vulpix + Set up Sweeper spam and just brutalize most teams. Its very difficult to stop sweepers in general, much less when they start taking half damage and become impossible to stop or revenge kill. Something like Shellder+Scraggy or Shellder+Zigzagoon is an example of a set up core that becomes very difficult to stop once it gets going with the help of Aurora Veil support.

Some arguments that I've heard against Alolan Vulpix being good is that it is so frail and middling in the power department. However, that is not an issue as its job is primarily to set screens and die. Once the screens are up, you will be under a lot of pressure unless you are a magical wizard who can deal with 2-3 dangerous sweepers coming at you in a row. Any facets that I mentioned earlier are just in regards to showing how A-Vulpix can get Aurora Veil up, most of the other things it can do are just a bonus.

Things that love screens : Scraggy, Shellder, Vullaby, Corphish, <Insert Shell Smasher here>, Zigzagoon, Snivy, Drilbur, Croagunk and a lot more I'm probably forgetting.

Here is a sample team of Aurora Veil Offense

Vulpix-Alola @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 5
EVs: 52 HP / 196 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Aurora Veil
- Blizzard
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Freeze-Dry

Shellder @ Eviolite
Ability: Skill Link
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 36 Def / 196 Spe
Impish Nature
- Shell Smash
- Rock Blast
- Icicle Spear
- Razor Shell

Zigzagoon @ Berry Juice
Ability: Pickup
Level: 5
EVs: 132 HP / 196 Atk / 108 Def / 28 SpD / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Thief
- Seed Bomb

Vullaby @ Eviolite
Ability: Weak Armor
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 236 SpA / 116 Spe
Modest Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Dark Pulse
- Heat Wave

Frillish @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Water Absorb
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 236 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Shadow Ball
- Hydro Pump
- Energy Ball

Onix @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 236 Atk / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebanklc-515109962
Here is a replay which illustrates what I mean. Alolan Vulpix is able to sacrifice itself to a Pawniard in exchange for Aurora Veil up. The rest is history as Zigzagoon is able to set up on Pawniard and sweep.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebanklc-517570366 With screens up, Zigzagoon became a monstrous early game wallbreaker and was able to take a lot more along with it to the grave. The ending became easy once Ziggy went ham.

Excuse the quality of replays they're all I have D:

To conclude, I honestly think that Alolan Vulpix could become a staple for offensive teams and I wanted to know your thoughts/experiences of it. Or at the very least give it a try. Do you all think that this could be a major threat, or am I just out of my mind lol.


tldr baby ninetales low key amazing x_x
*Please forgive me for any mistakes I might have made while writing this up
 
Can we talk about Phanpy for a sec?



This pokemon is the ultimate anti meta pokemon.

60 base strength +play rough gives him the second strongest physical fairy attack in the tier after Snubbul, however he has more bulk then Snubbul and unlike Snubbul, he's not weak to the ever common Poison Jab and Iron head that fairy types run nowadays.

But wait Liquid Mudbray and Hippopotas are way better ground types, fuck no they ain't because they do completely different things.

Mudbray is a brick wall to everything and anything physical, except he can't take on Scragg or Timburr at +1 or 2 because they just Knock off/ drain punch and he's dead and he can only hit Scraggy super effective with CC.

Yeah Well Phan can take a +2 Knock off/HJK

+2 156 Atk Scraggy Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 196 HP / 116+ Def Eviolite Phanpy: 16-19 (57.1 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 156 Atk Scraggy High Jump Kick vs. 196 HP / 116+ Def Eviolite Phanpy: 21-25 (75 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Hell he can even possibly survive

+3 156 Atk Scraggy High Jump Kick vs. 196 HP / 116+ Def Eviolite Phanpy: 25-30 (89.2 - 107.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

And either KO back with Play rough

196 Atk Phanpy Play Rough vs. 36 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Scraggy: 20-28 (90.9 - 127.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO and if he doesn't KO well bam Ice shard.

196 Atk Phanpy Ice Shard vs. 36 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Scraggy: 3-4 (13.6 - 18.1%) -- possible 6HKO

A priority move which Bray himself lacks.

Oh but Phanpy is a physical wall you say, well let's see how he holds up against some of the tiers best sepcial attackers.

+2 240+ SpA Vullaby Dark Pulse vs. 196 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Phanpy: 16-21 (57.1 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Can take +2 DP from Vull and then KO back with Play rough/Ice shard after weak armor after Rocks.

196 Atk Phanpy Play Rough vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Vullaby: 10-14 (40 - 56%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO

196 Atk Phanpy Ice Shard vs. -1 116 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Vullaby: 8-10 (32 - 40%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Meanwhile Mud just gets 2Hko since Vull outspeeds and 2hko's it and Mud sadly doesn't have prio.

240 SpA Abra Energy Ball vs. 196 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Phanpy: 18-22 (64.2 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Eq + Ice ahard

240 SpA Life Orb Abra Energy Ball vs. 196 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Phanpy: 23-29 (82.1 - 103.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

EQ

152 SpA Chinchou Scald vs. 196 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Phanpy: 14-20 (50 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

196 Atk Phanpy Earthquake vs. 76 HP / 212+ Def Chinchou: 24-30 (96 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Eq

The only common Pokemon in the tier, Phan loses too one on one is LO Staryu, which you shouldn't be sending it in against anyways.
 
I may be new here, but I haven't seen anyone mention klink. klink was bad in oras because it didn't have access to shift gear OR gear grind, due to it learning them past level 5. but now, with how the move rememberer works (you can remember moves from later levels), it can get those moves. just remove steel electric and normal resists, setup and go to town. since shift gear doubles your speed you don't have to invest much into that, giving you plenty of bulk with eviolite. yes its weak to fighting fire and ground but just setup on the right mon and gg. not saying klink should be S+ rank or anything, but its gotta be VIABLE at least, right?
 

Rowan

The professor?
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I may be new here, but I haven't seen anyone mention klink. klink was bad in oras because it didn't have access to shift gear OR gear grind, due to it learning them past level 5. but now, with how the move rememberer works (you can remember moves from later levels), it can get those moves. just remove steel electric and normal resists, setup and go to town. since shift gear doubles your speed you don't have to invest much into that, giving you plenty of bulk with eviolite. yes its weak to fighting fire and ground but just setup on the right mon and gg. not saying klink should be S+ rank or anything, but its gotta be VIABLE at least, right?
I mean yeah, klink is better than it used to be but that's not saying a lot. you're basically running gear grind, wild charge and then return as coverage. this means steel types completely wall you, e.g. magnemite, ferroseed, pawnaird. since you only get to +1, it misses out on a lot of KOs, pretty much any mon with eviolite can survive a hit. and berry juicers can almost always beat it due to the way gear grind works.

it's pretty much outclassed by any other set up sweeper.
 
just saying, theres a reason to use klink now, its not completely useless. remove bulky steels and weaken some stuff, better vs offense in my opinion. not amazing, just there.
 

Gummy

...three, smiles go for miles!
I just don't see what Klink does versus literally any Steel-type out there. It's outclassed offensively by Pawniard, defensively by Ferroseed, and as a pivot by Magnemite. Like Rowan said, it's just a bad setup sweeper in general. I guess it's useable but I've seen people use it and they usually give negative reviews. It's certainly better than it was in ORAS but that's like saying Delcatty is better because it has base 90 speed now.
 

Nineage

Pugnacious.
is a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
The State of the Metagame
with top meta commentator Nineage

Introduction
Basically, the idea of this post is to provide a snapshot of what our overall metagame is like right now. The metagame will hopefully shift over the remainder of Sun and Moon, and I think providing a snapshot of what types of teams people are using and what is especially viable will provide a record in the future for those looking at the development of our metagame. Also, this post could be helpful to those trying to figure out what team types to prepare for right now.

Dark Spam

Dark spam teams have seen a huge rise in the last little while, and its all because of Vullaby (more on this below). When two Dark type sweepers (Scraggy and Carvanha) lost their best partner with the ban of Gothita, the metagame shifted so that instead of allowing these Pokemon to sweep by trapping and eliminating their checks, teams would just wear them down by using other Dark type Pokemon. One of my personal favorites is the team GOAO brought against Dundies. Some trends on Dark spam teams include...
*
* Vullaby is fantastic. Vullaby is versatile. And Vullaby is what makes Dark Spam work. Basically, Vullaby is so good as a sweeper that the Nasty Plot and Z-Mirror Move sets don't need a ton of support to pull off a sweep. The support that they do need is pretty well accomplished by other Dark type Pokemon, which wear down Vullaby checks. Then, Vullaby can come in and clean up. Vullaby's versatility, though, means that Dark Spam teams don't even need to use it as a sweeper. They can run a standard set and then use it to wallbreak (I guess the sweeper sets wallbreak too) for another Dark-type sweeper. Vullaby even checks Fighting types, the most immediate answer to most Dark-types. Vullaby is the Pokemon that powers DarkSpam cores.

*
* Pawniard, Carvanha, and Scraggy are all often seen alongside Vullaby on DarkSpam cores. The power to wear down checks of these Pokemon is such that a team can conceivably run three or even all four of these Pokemon, and one of them will likely sweep. Carvanha is only run as a Life Orb sweeper, but Scraggy and Pawniard have some unpredictability of their own, running either Choice Scarf or a more standard set, which makes Dark Spam even less predictable.

*
* Hazard support is essential on Dark Spam teams because of their reliance on wearing down opposing teams. Onix is probably the most used hazard setter in this meta on these types of teams, but I've seen a fair amount of Dwebble as well, since it can set up both Stealth Rock and Spikes. I included Omanyte on this list because I think the Weak Armor set is super underused - it provides a combination of support and immediate power that I think is just about right in this meta.

Fighting Spam

Fighting spam teams have become, understandably, a lot better with the ban of Gothita, which has made Fighting-types in general a lot more prevalent. This strategy is especially good given how good and common Dark Spam teams are right now. Some trends that are frequently seen on the Fighting spam that we are seeing in the current meta include...
*
* Although its fallen a bit in popularity since last generation, Mienfoo is still definitely a tier titan. On Fighting Spam teams in particular, Mienfoo generally runs a Choice Scarf set, but on many other archetypes is seen with a 13 Speed bulky set. One thing 067jox and a few others have been using recently are lure Mienfoo sets, with Flyinium Z or Poisonium, to lure and eliminate Fighting checks, which has been good so far, but might get worse if people come to expect it in the future.

*
* Man oh man is this thing good. Its been often-discussed in this thread, but Timburr is outstanding in the current meta. Its up for debate which set is its best right now (probably most people would say Iron Fist), and once you give it support to wear down its checks its just monstrous to deal with. Its obviously good on a lot more than Fight spam too- it deals with Hail teams and Dark spam teams pretty well, as well as lots of other stuff.

*
* Vullaby is the best Pokemon in the metagame, and with that and lots of other good birds running rampant, Fighting spam teams obviously need bird checks. Chinchou, Onix, and Mudbray are three of the most common that I've seen. Onix is probably all around the best choice, since its a more reliable check to things like Doduo than Chinchou, but both of the others provide bird-checking capabilities as well as all around support for Fighting-spam teams.

*
* Pursuit trappers are another staple of pretty much every Fighting spam team we are seeing. Pawniard is probably being used less than last generation, but is still terrific all-around. When its Pursuit trapping, its usually running a Choice Scarf these days because Abra is everywhere. Alolan Grimer is a new addition, and has turned out to be super cool, countering Gastly and Abra, but also serving as a blanket check to lots of the metagame with Berry Juice.

*
* Though seen a lot less on Fighting spam than Mienfoo or Timburr, I wanted to give Croagunk a special section for remaining one of the absolute best glue Pokemon in the metagame, checking 3/4 of the most common attacking types (Fighting, Water, Dark). Physical sets are more common, but we've seen some special variants in high level matches, and even Nasty Plot works pretty well right now.

Other Offense

This category has lots of subcategories, including the TypeSpam teams I already mentioned, but despite my apparent attempt to beat out Corporal Levi on character count, I don't want to go into each individually. Instead, I just want to list some of the common trends, cores, and backbones that are common in the current meta.
*
* The classic hazard control that Heysup spammed last generation is everywhere right now. Both of these Pokemon are fantastic on their own. Onix checks the birds that are all over the metagame, sets hazards reliably, can switch into some often-seen Pokemon like Alolan Grimer, and hits decently hard when necessary. People have been starting to use an Evio Weak Armor set to take advantage of people who try to Knock Off Berry Juice for a free Speed boost. Staryu is one of the tier titans. It is by far the most reliable hazard remover in the meta, and can run various sets to fit the team its on. The most common is the bulkier Scald set, but the Life Orb set is extremely hard to switch into. This combination of Pokemon together can control the hazard game for its team, and is the easiest core to fit onto a team I've found this gen.

*
* Not all three of these always go together, but Vull+Dig and Vull+Gunk individually are super common cores. Once again, Vullaby is terrific, amazing, fantastic. Because it is so good and so versatile, Vullaby finds its way onto a lot of teams, so the Pokemon that help it best are often seen alongside it. I'm personally a fan of slower U-turn Vullaby sets with Diglett, and offensive sets with Croagunk, but really any combination of sets works well with these Pokemon. Note on Diglett: Sludge Bomb Diglett is really cool right now!

*
* More Vull+Dig, of course. Basically, I wanted to create a seperate section for VoltTurn + Diglett, which is a super reliable and effective strategy at the moment. All of these have been discussed already, but its worth mentioning that seeing any or all of the first 4 Pokemon combined with Diglett is a super prevalent offensive coupling.

*
* I was too lazy to give sun its own section and mad0ka could write it better than I could anyway, but sun is seen across levels of play at the moment. This is partly because Poisinium Z has given Bellsprout a cool way to deal significant damage to sun checks, and partly because some common priority users that threatened it in the past are seen less now. Remember to run Vullaby checks on your sun teams!!

*
* BirdSpam is something that should probably get its own section, but I forgot about it until now and I don't want to write up another section. Basically, like any TypeSpam, it overwhelms traditional bird checks by using lots of birds. The buffs to Doduo and Vullaby in particular are super nice. Both are somewhat unpredictable on what set they run, and can draw in and weaken bird checks for the other. I included Rufflett too because its theoretically good, but I never hit with it so I don't like it much. BirdSpam partners are pretty easy to find - Diglett and Trapinch trap most bird checks well, hazard setters like Onix and Omanyte help wear things down. I personally like Aipom because it brings in and weakens Rock types, but I've been told by Fiend that Aipom sucks.

*
* ShellDig is the last of the Dig cores, and not as commonly seen as many of the others, but is probably the most effective Diglett core in this metagame. Shellder is good right now (as always), and being able to run Razor Shell over Ice Shard is pretty nice. Diglett is the obvious partner that just takes out what Shellder hates (Pawn and Mag), though I've been told by my friend Levi that Trapinch works well here too.

Balance

Balance teams are less common than in LC metas past, but are definitely still a potent archetype. Because its a lot less used, there aren't as many specific cores that I want to focus on, but instead I want to focus on the general concept that a lot of balance backbones seem to be built around in the current meta: Fire/Water/Grass Cores. Here is the general framework of F/W/G balance teams in the current meta:
*
+
/
/
+
/
* Balance cores have a lot of variation, but something around this type of core seems to be the norm at the moment. Most of these Pokemon are pretty self-explanatory, and we've seen lots of different iterations of these choices. I feel like overall, its hard for me to make a call on exactly what the best balance backbones are at the moment because most of LC's top players tend to be building more offensively.

One more core:
*
* This is probably an offensive core but it seems balance-ish to me. I've seen this one a lot recently, and its pretty self-explanatory. A-Grimer Pursuit traps Abra and Gastly, Knocks Off Timburr checks, and leaves the opponent generally open to a Bulk Up Timburr sweep. This core can fit with another Fighting type to fulfill a Fighting Spam core discussed above, but it can also work its way into several different types of teams on several different playstyles, and I feel its really effective in accomplishing its goals with little support necessary.

Aurora Veil HO

There is a whole post on Aurora Veil above, but teams relying on Alolan Vulpix to set up Aurora Veil and then abusing the screens to give setup sweepers the opportunity to set up have become quite common on ladder. We have yet to see Aurora Veil in high-level competitive matches, but the strategy is slowly gaining traction, and has the potential to become a dominant strategy in the metagame. At the moment, the strategy is mostly important as probably the single most used ladder team.

The Viability Rankings
Below is just a copy/paste of the current viability rankings, which will obviously continue to shift as the metagame does. They aren't perfect (Aipom is only ranked B+, for instance), but they do give a pretty good idea of what is where. Maybe we will look back on this post in a year when Nasty Plot Aipom has become overpowering and been banned and decide we were stupid back now. Then again, maybe the meta will stagnate and die.
S RANK
S

Mienfoo
Timburr
Vullaby
Staryu


A RANK
A+

Diglett
Magnemite
Mudbray
Pawniard
Shellder
Foongus

A

Abra
Carvanha
Chinchou
Gastly
Ponyta
Snivy

A-

Corphish
Cottonee
Doduo
Dwebble
Ferroseed
Grimer-Alola
Mareanie
Onix
Pumpkaboo-Super
Rufflet
Snubbull
Spritzee


B RANK
B+

Aipom
Bellsprout
Drilbur
Croagunk
Hippopotas
Omanyte
Scraggy
Slowpoke
Tirtouga
Torchic
Vulpix

B

Archen
Amaura
Cranidos
Elekid
Houndour
Munchlax
Pancham
Riolu
Sandshrew-Alola
Skrelp
Surskit
Vulpix-Alola
Zigzagoon

B-

Buneary
Bunnelby
Clamperl
Deerling
Dewpider
Frillish
Larvesta
Magby
Shellos
Snover
Stunky
Taillow

C RANK
C+

Anorith
Darumaka
Fletchling
Honedge
Kabuto
Lickitung
Lileep
Numel
Pikipek
Pumpkaboo-Small
Sandile
Sandshrew
Spinarak
Stufful
Tentacool
Trapinch
Trubbish
Tyrunt
Wynaut

C

Aron
Axew
Bulbasaur
Chespin
Crabrawler
Cubchoo
Dratini
Exeggcute
Goldeen
Inkay
Koffing
Meowth
Morellul
Natu
Rowlet
Salandit
Teddiursa
Venipede

C-

Bronzor
Budew
Cubone
Geodude-Alola
Geodude
Karrablast
Larvitar
Machop
Mankey
Mantyke
Nosepass
Purrloin
Remoraid
Shelmet
Togepi
Wingull
Wooper
Zorua


SO...
Do you guys agree with my general conception of the state of the metagame? Are there glaring Pokemon I'm missing? Playstyles you've been experimenting with that will revolutionize LC? Where do you guys see the meta shifting over the time remaining until LCPL?
Love LC!
 

Corporal Levi

ninjadog of the decade
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One quick comment on this phrase:
Vullaby is the best Pokemon in the metagame
Vullaby is still absurdly versatile, fairly threatening, and very bulky considering its offensive presence. But the metagame has stabilized and the playerbase has adapted in such a way that I feel Vullaby is no longer the best Pokemon.

Now that we have learned to expect and accommodate for Weak Armor sets, it feels very difficult to sweep with them. For starters, Weak Armor is harder to activate because opponents actually expect it now. You'll have to make risky predictions just to have a shot at sweeping against competent opponents, even late in the match. In addition, we've moved away from using ORAS teams and their flimsy Fletchling answers and moved primarily toward bulky Rock- and Electric-types when it comes to bird checks. When your good friends Onix, Tirtouga, Omanyte, bulky Dwebble, Chinchou, and Eviolite Magnemite can take Doduo's Brave Bird reliably, Vullaby is easy as pie. You'd think there would be less strong priority without Fletchling around, but Vullaby in particular has made priority just as important as it was last gen; as a result, Timburr now genuinely competes with Mienfoo for top Fighting-type, Tirtouga and Aipom are still good despite certain unfriendly metagame changes, and Croagunk, Doduo, and Corphish are all extremely potent. The most important metagame adaption is how strong Fighting spam is. With Fighting spam comes bulky Fairies, and bulky Fairies shut Vullaby down.

Nasty Plot Vullaby in particular has a very difficult time sweeping, not only because of Weak Armor's unreliability and the omnipresence of its dedicated checks, but just because it's so weak. Its +2 attacks hit about as hard as Analytic Magnemite's Thunderbolt, for reference - great for 2HKOing but not so much for OHKOing, which is what Vullaby is probably aiming for with its -1 Defense and often its Eviolite removed. Just about anything with an Eviolite that it doesn't hit super-effectively, and even some of the bulkier Berry Juice Pokemon, can easily survive a single hit to retaliate. Often you'll need multiple boosts to have a real shot at breaking through the opposing team, but this tends not to be feasible because, again, Vullaby is actually prepared for nowadays. NP Vullaby is weak after a boost, but it's even weaker before one - as a result, it doesn't even offer a lot defensively. For example, it struggles to check Scraggy well seeing how Air Slash doesn't even OHKO a healthy Knocked Off Scraggy after Stealth Rock.

Z-Mirror Move Vullaby, on the other hand, is quite strong; +2 Brave Bird is about 1.7x stronger, and Knock Off 1.3x stronger, than anything NP Vullaby has to offer. It has a different issue - because of its lack of Eviolite, it's hard to set up, and relatively easy to revenge-kill offensively. First you have to find a physical Pokemon that's weak enough to pop Weak Armor, which is already an issue seeing how even 16 Atk Mienfoo's High Jump Kick, and Eviolite Pawniard's Iron Head into Sucker Punch, have a 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. But let's say you predict well and come in on a Knock Off, and the enemy is weakened enough to be forced out by a Z-Mirror Move in retaliation. You now have a -1 Def Vullaby with a bit of chip damage, without Eviolite, and relying on Brave Bird to break through bulkier threats. Needless to say, it probably won't last very long if the opponent is packing priority.

Because of NP and ZMM Vullaby's shortcomings as a sweeper, I still think classic Pivot Vullaby from gen 6 is its most generally useful set for its reliability. This set remains about as effective as it was in ORAS; it dislikes the addition of Mudbray and popularity of Fairy-types, but appreciates the increase in Foongus and Croagunk, decrease in Pawniard, and the fact that it is not necessarily the default Vullaby set anymore. This set's ability to actually check popular offensive threats well makes it much easier to fit onto balance and bulky offense.

But Vullaby still doesn't even begin to compare with the other S ranks and some upper A+ in terms of splashability. It is often outlasted by the things it checks due to its weakness to Stealth Rock, as spinning with Staryu often gives up too much momentum, and smart switches will leave Vullaby with very few opportunities to Roost. It also doesn't offer a whole lot outside of its offensive presence and Knock Off, as nice as they are; Staryu has Rapid Spin, Mienfoo has Regenerator U-turn and Knock Off, Timburr has reasonably strong priority and Knock Off, and they're all less linear once their set has been revealed (and you can usually tell which variant Vullaby is as soon as it switches in or uses a move from damage/Stealth Rock rolls) due to the variety of coverage moves they can run. I would go as far as to say that Vullaby is the "worst" of the S ranks because it's comparably effective, but noticeably less splashable.

Speaking of splashable, outside of Vullaby, the Dark-type mainstays of ORAS really aren't anymore. Mienfoo, Timburr, Croagunk, Spritzee, and Snubbull being great makes Scraggy not great. Carvanha finds a niche on fishspam and darkspam cores, but isn't such a good standalone sweeper anymore when maybe around half of high quality teams (my guess is maybe 40% of them have Timburr, 40% have Mienfoo, and 15% have Croagunk? With some overlap from Fighting spam so that about 80% of solid teams have at least one Fighting-type) carry at least one of Timburr and Croagunk, both of which instantly shut down Carvanha's chances of sweeping. Former S-rank Pawniard has been hit worst of all; Fighting-types being so good right now obviously holds Pawniard back, Ponyta is making a minor comeback due to how well it synergizes with the many great Water- and Grass-types in the tier, and Diglett being able to trap Pawniard more reliably due to the Sucker Punch nerf really hurts its chances of threatening the opponent throughout the match, but the biggest difference is that Pawniard has lost the vast majority of its defensive niche. Vullaby, Doduo, and Rufflet run Fighting coverage more often than not, shutting down Pawniard's claim as a Flying-type check, and Shellder frequently runs HP Fighting or Razor Shell over Ice Shard, making it much easier to break through Pawniard; it's still got its niche as a Fairy-type check, but it was never very good at that, seeing how it is hit neutrally by their attacks and is weak to Snubbull's coverage moves, and Cottonee regularly carries HP Fighting.

Which leaves the title of most splashable Dark-type to this little guy:


In a sense, I feel like this is the closest we have to Download Porygon from gen 6. They're not all that comparable in their specific niches, of course, seeing how they generally carry a completely different set of moves, have different counterplay, and don't even share the same type, but the idea is the same: A-Grimer and DL Porygon are both tanks with very powerful attacks and good coverage that, because of their strengths, can soft check the vast majority of the metagame and so are very easy to include on a team. A-Grimer may be a great Pursuit trapper, but I'll often find myself running it on teams that aren't weak to Gastbra if I need a soft Grass check, Memento support, Knock Off support, or even just have a free slot because a super strong Knock Off/Poison Jab/Pursuit coupled with solid statistical bulk and few weaknesses is just so good. Mudbray can be pretty annoying but it's not hard to pair A-Grimer with a good Mudbray check since A-Grimer doesn't stack any other weaknesses. Diglett revenge-kills A-Grimer but doesn't prevent it from firing off strong Knock Offs and Pursuiting Abra/Gastly first. Vullaby may offer more for Darkspam cores seeing how well it synergizes with other Dark-types offensively and defensively, but A-Grimer is easier to fit onto just about every other archetype.
 
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Who's your favorite Pokemon to use in LC competitively and why? (random question because im new to Smogon) Mines is probably Revenge Killer Focus Sash Abra. That's because of my team which is very offensive and Abra gets rid of a lot of threats.

edit: I don't know if you see it or not, but sorry for attaching that random file. I didn't know how to get pics.
 

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my favorite lc mon to use... now, maybe not the most viable lc mon, but for sure one of the most entertaining, its JOHN CENA!!! just kidding, its zorua, but i do love using that as its nickname. anyway, looking like your other mons is very handy, and annoying for your opponent. zorua even gets extrasensory for those pesky fighting types like mienfoo. I personally enjoy scarf zorua for killing things that think they're safe from the possibility of zorua because they're faster. also incinerate is fun for killing ferroseeds that think they stand a chance. (they dont)
 

Rowan

The professor?
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I've had some joy with Koffing recently. It walls like the entire metagame, it's really good, and nothing carries psychic coverage at all, it's only weakness. Abra is the only common Psychic move user in the tier since Porygon and Gothita have left. Staryu sometimes, but Ice Beam and Tbolt are more common. Zenbutt on Scraggy and Tirt are the only others i can think of really.


Koffing @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 76 Def / 236 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Sludge Bomb
- Fire Blast


So here's some things it walls:
grasses: Snivy, foongus, bulbasaur, and pumpkaboo
Fighters including mienfoo, Timburr and croagunk
Fairies, notably Snubbull which often carries scary coverage moves like EQ, close combat and fire punch to beat its normal counters
Can check non restalk mudbray, beats every other ground with ease besides drilbur

and its general bulk allows it to check a lot of shit, particularly physical threats. Even LO Sprout only does 45% with weather ball, so you can OHKO back with fire blast

Using restalk does mean you miss will-o-wisp and clear smog, both of which would be really useful. however, it still walls a lot of things and teams can struggle to wear it down, because of the lack of Psychic coverage in the tier.
If you miss clear smog and wisp too much, try pairing with Wishitung!
 

Corporal Levi

ninjadog of the decade
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Sun is an offensive archetype that primarily abuses the doubled Speed of Chlorophyll users, allowing them to take advantage of their coverage, power, and utility to attempt a sweep. It is similar to teams based around Shellder or Zigzagoon in that it primarily aims to clean with a potent offensive Pokemon, in this case Bellsprout. Like those teams, Sun struggles against a well-prepared team carrying good checks to its sweeper; the most notable Sun checks are defensive Vullaby, defensive Ponyta, Munchlax, and Hippopotas. In addition, Sun-based sweepers are on a timer, and rely heavily on the hazard-weak Vulpix to repeatedly set it up. Despite this, the unpredictability and power of a well-played Bellsprout allows Sun to not only be viable, but extremely threatening.

Offensive Fire-types are an alternative way to abuse Sun over Chlorophyll Pokemon, but this tends to be a less common strategy except when used in conjunction with Bellsprout. It stacks weaknesses with Vulpix, while not having the initial Speed that makes Chlorophyll stacking so strong. Numel used to be the main example of this, but we now have Z-Sunny Day Ponyta and Houndour as well.

Keep in mind that I am discussing dedicated Sun teams; Vulpix sees occasional usage on general offense for its wallbreaking strength, even when not paired with Bellsprout. Those do not fall under the Sun archetype because they aren't based around weather.


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Sun was considered a somewhat viable but ultimately mostly irrelevant strategy in ADV and DPP LC due to the lack of an auto-setter; Rain was the more prevalent manual weather due to a greater variety of strong abusers. The archetype hit an all-time low in gen 5 after Drought Vulpix was banned, as it was easily countered by ubiquitous Sand teams on top of its usual drawbacks. Gen 6 came along and Vulpix was freed; Sun was initially a very dominant strategy due to the presence of Tangela, but after Tangela was banned, it appeared to have lost almost all of its viability.

Shortly after Murkrow and Meditite were banned toward the end of XY, queenlucy began working on a very irritating team that, until then, would have been laughed off as a gimmick. By the time Misdreavus was banned, XY Sun had been all but perfected. Despite the popularity of Fletchling, Sun was otherwise relatively unprepared for; it soon came to be known as a very effective strategy, even gaining a few ban requests along the way. As the metagame adapted and shifted, Pokemon like Diglett, Vullaby, and Hippopotas became more prominent; Sun began to fade back into obscurity, though it remained a legitimate strategy for the rest of the generation. A few new Sun builds appeared here and there in ORAS, but it would never come close to matching its height in post-Missy until gen 7 rolled along.

With gen 7 came the nerf to Gale Wings, and with the nerf to Gale Wings, the near complete disappearance of Fletchling from the metagame. Just like that, Sun lost its worst enemy; suddenly, Bellsprout was that much harder to prepare for, and Sun could afford to branch out in many different ways. The most notable new Sun build is double Chlorophyll, which accounts for all three uses of Sun in SPL so far; two of those have been wins. This puts double Chlorophyll at nearly the level of the most popular offensive archetypes, including Shellder offense and Fighting spam. The days of Sun being nothing more than a fun gimmick are long gone.


SuMo Sun vs ORAS Sun:

+++ Fletchling was able to instantly shut down a Bellsprout sweep in gen 6 with its priority Acrobatics; it is no longer competitively relevant in gen 7.
++ Porygon was by far the most common defensive Pokemon in gen 6, and checked Sun quite well with its standard Download and defensive Trace sets.
++ The addition of Z-moves allow Sun sweepers to bypass bulky Pokemon that they would otherwise be walled against. This especially benefits teams with multiple Chlorophyll sweepers.
++ Staryu is now incredibly easy to include on a team, and benefits Sun both as a strong spinner and as a switchin opportunity for Bellsprout.
+ Sucker Punch has been nerfed and Pawniard usage has decreased, which helps because strong priority is quite troublesome against a weakened Sun sweeper.
+ Fairy-types are strong right now, granting Bellsprout and Vulpix more switchin opportunities.
+ Carvanha usage has decreased slightly, which results from how good Timburr is.
~ Timburr is often specially frailer, allowing Sun sweepers to break through it earlier on. However, it now more frequently carries Ice Punch.
~ Vulpix has a good matchup against Alolan Vulpix and Hail teams, but Bellsprout dislikes having Sun removed.
~ Vullaby has become more common, but is often a frail sweeping or Scarf variant, which Bellsprout does not have as much difficulty breaking through.
- Scarf users more frequently reach 27 Speed or higher, allowing them to outspeed 13 Speed Bellsprout. This is a direct adaptation to Sun's prevalence.
- Alolan Grimer is one of the most splashable Pokemon in the metagame and acts as a decent Sun check.


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Most Sun teams can be classified into one of the following subarchetypes.


Traditional Sun: an offensive build that aims to get Bellsprout, the team's main wall-breaker and sweeper, into play as often as possible. When Sun was first brought into the limelight in late XY, it was with this sort of build.
Key Pokemon: Vulpix, Bellsprout, Mienfoo, Archen, Staryu, Diglett, Onix, Numel, Pawniard, Snubbull
Shine Bright Like a Vulpix


Sun Balance: a more defensive build is utilized alongside the basic core of Vulpix and Bellsprout in a mostly detached manner, aiming to whittle the opposition down until Bellsprout can clean without trouble late in the match. The safest way to use Sun in terms of match-up, but it takes advantage of Bellsprout the least.
Key Pokemon: Vulpix, Bellsprout, Mienfoo, Archen, Staryu, Slowpoke, Mareanie, various defensive cores


Double Chlorophyll: this hyper offensive build takes advantage of both Bellsprout and Bulbasaur to put absurd amounts of pressure on shared checks, and also makes both Chlorophyll users more expendable, at the cost of stacking weaknesses and a reliance on Sun being up.
Key Pokemon: Vulpix, Bellsprout, Bulbasaur, Mienfoo, Archen, Staryu, Diglett, Kabuto, Onix


Double Fire: by running Ponyta or Houndour alongside Vulpix and Bellsprout, you gain an extra Sunny Day user to support Bellsprout as well as a strong secondary sweeper. Similarly to double Chlorophyll, however, you stack weaknesses, and without the Speed boost from Chlorophyll, other hyper offensive archetypes become troublesome.
Key Pokemon: Vulpix, Bellsprout, Ponyta, Numel, Houndour, Mienfoo, Archen, Staryu, Slowpoke, Mareanie
Sample teams (Z-Ponyta Sun is the first SuMo team listed)


Triple Chlorophyll: an even more extreme take on double Chlorophyll, but at this point, stacking so many weaknesses leads to a very large degree of unreliability; expect to see outright unwinnable match-ups more often.
Key Pokemon: Vulpix, Bellsprout, Bulbasaur, Cherubi, Exeggcute, Riolu, Cottonee, Archen, Kabuto, Onix


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Here are some things that every, or almost every competitive Sun team should have:

Vulpix, the most reliable Sun setter and abuser.
Backup Sun setters: Diglett Cottonee, Riolu

Bellsprout, the most threatening Sun abuser and its main sweeper. A possible exception could be made for teams based purely on Fire spam, but these would generally be improved by Bellsprout anyway, as Bellsprout synergizes with Fire-types defensively and is generally just too good with Sun support to pass up.
Backup Chlorophyll sweepers: Bulbasaur, Cherubi, Exeggcute

A Stealth Rock user. All offensive teams should have hazards to secure key KOs and take advantage of forced switches, but Sun in particular benefits from Stealth Rock as many of its checks, such as Flying- and Fire-types, are weak to it, and Sun teams have the means to heavily pressure Staryu.
Stealth Rock setters for Sun: Archen, Diglett, Kabuto, Onix, Pawniard, Cranidos, Omanyte

A Rapid Spin or Defog user. Since a Sun abuser outside of Vulpix will have a maximum of 7 turns to sweep, it's important to keep Vulpix healthy so that it can set Sun up repeatedly. Extremely offensive Sun teams with multiple reliable Sun setters can potentially forgo this, but doing so still isn't ideal.
Hazard removal for Sun: Archen, Staryu, Kabuto

A solid Ponyta check. Hippopotas and Munchlax are uncommon enough to acceptably risk a weak match-up against, and birds naturally have a good amount of counterplay, but if you're not prepared for Flame Charge or Z-Sunny Day Ponyta, it will ruin your (sunny) day. Ponyta comes in on Vulpix for free and can soft check Bellsprout even if it doesn't sweep.
Ponyta checks for Sun: Archen, Staryu, Diglett, Kabuto, Onix, Slowpoke, Ponyta, Numel, Mareanie, Houndour, Cranidos, Chinchou, Omanyte

A bird check. This doesn't have to be especially reliable, because most birds lack switch-in opportunities and can simply be worn down, as well as revenge-killed by Bellsprout under the Sun when weakened. However, being completely unprepared for them is begging to be swept by bird spam or a well played offensive Vullaby.
Bird checks for Sun: Archen, Staryu, Kabuto, Onix, Slowpoke, Magnemite, Cranidos, Chinchou, Omanyte


And some things that most Sun teams should have:

VoltTurn. This is enormously helpful to get Vulpix and Chlorophyll abusers into play safely, as they often struggle to switch in otherwise with their low bulk.
VoltTurn users for Sun: Mienfoo, Archen, Magnemite, Chinchou

Knock Off. Bellsprout fails to OHKO many bulky Eviolite users, even if it is carrying a Life Orb; removing their Eviolites gives Bellsprout a much easier time sweeping.
Knock Off users for Sun: Bellsprout, Mienfoo, Archen, Bulbasaur, Kabuto, Pawniard, Cottonee, Timburr, Omanyte

A Pawniard check. Pawniard's Sucker Punch is the strongest priority against Chlorophyll users that you will commonly see; Bellsprout and Bulbasaur resist the other two important priority move types in Fighting and Water.
Pawniard checks for Sun: Mienfoo, Diglett, Ponyta, Numel, Houndour, Riolu, Timburr


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Now I'll try and describe some good Pokemon to include on Sun teams.


5/5 - All competitive Sun teams should have them.
Vulpix: The only auto-setter of Sun in LC and the reason why Sun is viable at all. Having an auto-setter allows sun to be set up in a huge amount of situations where it would otherwise be costly or impossible to set. Vulpix also synergizes defensively with Chlorophyll abusers and offensively with other Fire-types, in addition to being a decent Pokemon on its own, leaving no reason not to use it on any competitive Sun team.
Bellsprout: The gold standard for Sun abusers and the reason why Sun is such a strong archetype. Access to both pseudo-STAB Weather Ball and STAB Sludge Bomb makes it more difficult to switch into than any other Chlorophyll abuser, on top of some more niche options such as Sucker Punch and Knock Off to make it the most versatile of them as well. Its strength and unpredictability rank it as one the most threatening offensive Pokemon under the Sun, and the only reason to use other Sun abusers is to take advantage of their offensive synergy with Bellsprout. Eviolite, Life Orb, Poisonium-Z, and Grassium-Z with Sleep Powder or Growth in the last slot are the most common ways to use Bellsprout.


4/5 - These offer a huge amount to sun teams; expect to see about as many sun teams with them as without.
Mienfoo
: On top of being one of LC's best Pokemon to begin with, Eviolite Mienfoo's utility is especially appreciated for Sun teams, making it about as close to a mandatory support Pokemon for Sun as you can get, excluding Vulpix. Knock Off wears down bulky Pokemon that Chlorophyll sweepers struggle to OHKO; Regenerator allows it to check Pawniard throughout the match; and, most importantly, Regenerator + U-turn lets Mienfoo get Vulpix in safely throughout the match. Slow Mienfoo is the most common variant found on Sun to get Vulpix in safely with U-turn against more threats, but faster spreads to better check Pawniard and get off a fast Taunt are viable as well.
Archen
: Though strong offensively, Sun cores need a lot of support to pull off a sweep against a solid team. Archen offers so much in a single slot that it can be hard to pass up; even though it can't do everything at once, it can always offer something helpful while the rest of the team patches up any remaining holes. Defog, Stealth Rock, checking birds, soft checking Ponyta, Knock Off, and U-turn are all things Archen can attempt to do while maintaining a strong offensive presence. Berry Juice Archen is more common for its offensive presence, but Eviolite Archen is fine as well.
Staryu
: It may seem odd to run a Water-type on Sun, but the three most threatening Pokemon to Sun are Ponyta, Hippopotas, and Munchlax; Staryu happens to hard check the first two, while Munchlax is relatively uncommon. Furthermore, Staryu provides invaluable Rapid Spin support so that Vulpix can get into play more often, and forms a Fire-Water-Grass core with Vulpix and Bellsprout, making it an extremely strong option for a variety of Sun teams despite having its Scald weakened. Eviolite variants are preferred to better check what they need to while not being as badly held back by a weakened STAB move.


3/5 - Great picks for a variety of sun builds, but a bit less splashable than the above.
Diglett
: Being able to trap and weaken Ponyta with the Focus Sash variant is nice, as is a well-timed Tectonic Rage on a bulky Pokemon. The main use for Diglett, however, is trapping Pawniard, Abra, and SturdyJuice Magnemite so that Chlorophyll sweepers can save Sleep Powder for something else. Diglett also has a variety of other tools up its sleeve to make it a very useful support Pokemon for Sun, including Stealth Rock, Sucker Punch, Memento, an immunity to Volt Switch, and Sunny Day.
Bulbasaur
: Though outclassed by Bellsprout on traditional Sun teams since Weather Ball isn't compatible with Chlorophyll, Bulbasaur is definitely the best choice for double Chlorophyll, as its checks are identical to Bellsprout's, allowing one to support the other's Growth sweep with a well-timed Sleep Powder or Z-move. Bulbasaur's advantage over Bellsprout is its higher Speed to deal with certain troublesome Choice Scarf users or setup sweepers. It also has slightly better bulk, beats Chespin, and is quite threatening in its own right.
Kabuto
: A reasonable alternative to Archen for its ability to more reliably check defensive Ponyta and birds, on top of the advantages of Rapid Spin over Defog. Its relative lack of offensive presence due to weak STAB moves and lower Attack generally makes it the lesser choice, but it is seen more often on double and triple Chlorophyll teams that are especially vulnerable to defensive Ponyta and cannot find room to fit a backup check.
Onix
: Generally paired with Staryu to serve as the bird check of the team, as Staryu can Rapid Spin for Onix to take advantage of SturdyJuice. In addition to checking birds, Onix can check Ponyta, deter Volt Switch to give Vulpix and Bellsprout more opportunities to come in, serve as a decent safety net if it can come in at full health, and is arguably the most reliable Stealth Rock setter in the metagame, making it a great choice for role compression.


2/5 - Decent but niche picks for specific roles.
Slowpoke
: One of the most reliable Ponyta, smasher, and Ground checks in the metagame. Staryu tends to be used more for the sake of role compression with its access to Rapid Spin, as well as Slowpoke's weakness to Vullaby, but Slowpoke can be paired with Archen in particular to good effect.
Ponyta
: Fire spam is a viable strategy to muscle through balance especially, as well as providing an easy way to fit in a secondary Sun setter. Offensive Ponyta is an ideal candidate for a partner to Vulpix thanks to its Speed and power.
Numel
: Simple Numel is interesting in that although it is relatively tame after a single turn of setup, it is among the most threatening Pokemon in the metagame after two. Sun makes Numel's Simple Growth even more terrifying, and it lets Numel withstand weak Scalds while setting up.
Mareanie
: Mareanie is the most reliable Ponyta check in the game, granting it a similar role to Slowpoke as a good back-up Fire check on teams utilizing Archen. It has very little offensive presence and is prone to being trapped by Diglett, but handles Fighting-types quite well.
Pawniard
: Scarf Pawniard is a decent choice for role compression on Sun, providing Knock Off, Pursuit, and potentially Stealth Rock support. However, it stacks weaknesses to Ponyta and doesn't offer much defensively, which is why it is less prominent than it was for gen 6 Sun.
Snubbull
: Despite stacking weaknesses to Fire-types, Snubbull is useful on offense in general for being an extremely solid Fighting check while not losing momentum as badly as Spritzee. It doesn't offer much else, but that alone can grant it a team slot and made it a staple of gen 6 sun.
Houndour
: The main competition for Ponyta as a z-Sunny Day user, offering strong priority in Sucker Punch and stronger Fire Blasts/Solar Beams in exchange for Ponyta's higher initial Speed and access to Hypnosis.


1/5 - Usable on very specific sun builds.

Cherubi: If you're really into fast offensive Grass-types and want to go for triple Sun, Cherubi tends to be the best choice, as its access to Weather Ball makes it reasonably threatening in its own right, and it can support Vulpix or its fellow Chlorophyll abusers with Healing Wish. However, it's outclassed on double Chlorophyll by Bulbasaur due to its lack of a useful Poison typing and Sleep Powder, as well as overall worse stats.
Magnemite: Though it was a better choice for Sun when Misdreavus and Fletchling were relevant, Magnemite still serves as a decent bird check, slow Volt Switcher, and either a Pawniard trapper or safety net, depending on whether it chooses to run Magnet Pull or SturdyJuice. It stacks some weaknesses, however.
Cottonee: Double and triple Chlorophyll may appreciate a reliable secondary Sun setter. Cottonee acts as this through Prankster Sunny Day, and can also attempt to wear down checks to Chlorophyll abusers with Knock Off. It can be run with Heat Rock or Eject Button.
Riolu: The more defensive synergy minded Prankster Sun setter compared to Cottonee, Riolu has the benefit of soft checking Pawniard and not stacking weaknesses.
Cranidos: Usable for role compression to set up rocks, check Flying-types, and uniquely over other Rock-types bar Larvitar, Pursuit trap weakened Flying-types and possibly Abra. However, Archen's and Onix's advantages tend to be more useful overall.
Exeggcute: It has some real advantages over Bulbasaur on double Chlorophyll and Cherubi on triple Chlorophyll due to its access to STAB Psychic, great physical bulk, and ability to beat most Abra. The reason it is generally inferior on double Chlorophyll is that it is quite weak initially, needing Life Orb or some prior damage to OHKO even fast Eviolite Mienfoo, and being weak to U-turn and Knock Off actually makes it less reliable of a Fighting switch-in.
Chinchou: It's a good check to Ponyta and birds, and also offers a slow Volt Switch to get Vulpix in, but is prone to being worn down, and can't stall out Sun with a recovery move the way Staryu, Slowpoke, and Mareanie can.
Timburr: If you are badly in need of a soft check to smashers, or would like some strong priority for Pawniard and Carvanha, Timburr is an understandable alternative to Mienfoo, but U-turn is hard to give up.
Torchic: Speed Boost + Sun-boosted Fire Blast looks like a very nice combination. Unfortunately, Torchic has nothing else offensively; its lack of Solar Beam means that Ponyta and Houndour are able to threaten a far greater variety of teams. Also, keep in mind that we're still stacking weaknesses with Vulpix here. Torchic's big advantage is that once it racks up enough Speed boosts, it becomes a massive threat to opposing Sun teams.
Omanyte: Kabuto tends to be compared to hazard Omanyte, so Omanyte is a somewhat reasonable alternative due to its access to Spikes. However, hazard removal is extremely important to keep Vulpix healthy, and Omanyte does not synergize well with Staryu or Archen; furthermore, its other advantage of superior offensive presence is mitigated by Sun.
Oddish: Oddish may be tempting to use on double or triple Chlorophyll for its decent bulk, but it stacks weaknesses unnecessarily on triple Chlorophyll. On double Chlorophyll, its awful Speed tier forces it to run Timid, generally leaving it outclassed by the more versatile Bulbasaur. Oddish's advantage is its access to Moonblast, though it needs a Fairium to OHKO Vullaby.


0/5 - These potentially have uses on sun but are difficult to justify competitively; they tend to be badly outclassed by other choices. This is where boring old levi criticizes your attempt at creativity.

Deerling: I suppose this is the most justifiable of the unviable Sun Pokemon. Jump Kick lets Deerling break through Munchlax, but Munchlax is too uncommon to warrant dedicating an entire Pokemon to beating. The higher Speed lets it outrun +2 15 Speed Vullaby, as well as Scarf Diglett and Elekid, but these are relatively specific scenarios. On the other hand, Deerling's drawbacks over other Chlorophyll Pokemon are huge. As it is forced to go physical due to its abysmal Special Attack, Deerling sorely misses out on Fire coverage and the power of Solar Beam. This is coupled with Deerling's lack of Sleep Powder, inability to boost its Attack outside of Work Up, and naturally mediocre Attack, rendering it far less threatening than other Chlorophyll sweepers.
Petilil: Another Healing Wish Chlorophyll Pokemon, trading Weather Ball for Sleep Powder over Cherubi. However, due to Sleep Clause, only one of the triple Chlorophyll core should really be running Sleep Powder, making access to a strong coverage move in Weather Ball the far superior benefit..
Drilbur: Although it has two great supporting options in Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock, Drilbur's typing does not synergize with Fire or Grass defensively. Kabuto and Archen fit onto Sun teams better when it comes to role compression, so while Drilbur isn't a strictly bad choice for Sun, there isn't much reason to actually use it.
Litleo: You may compare Litleo's stats to Houndour's and Ponyta's and think that it has a niche, but missing out on Flash Fire is a huge loss for an archetype that tends to be weak to opposing Fire-types. Furthermore, it lacks Houndour's priority and Ponyta's great Speed tier, leaving it vulnerable to offensive builds and generally outclassed.
Dwebble: Often compared to hazard Omanyte in its niche. It synergizes with Staryu a little bit better - too bad it offers absolutely nothing for Sun outside of hazards and a soft bird check. It's not worth using on Sun over better role compression Pokemon.
Larvitar: It gets Pursuit, soft checks birds, and shuts down defensive Ponyta. It's also extremely weak initially, loses to Volt Switch users despite its immunity, and is generally not very threatening; it's simply too underwhelming of a Pokemon to warrant competitive use.
Purrloin: Between its low offensive stats, terrible bulk, and lack of resistances, Purrloin is the perfect combination of mediocrity to not ever be worth using over its Prankster brethen.
Salandit: Poison STAB may seem like a noteworthy niche over Ponyta and Houndour, but it comes at the cost of the far more useful Solar Beam. Salandit also misses out on Flash Fire, Ponyta's Speed, and Houndour's strong priority.
Darumaka: Impressive as a Sun-boosted Hustle Flare Blitz may be, Darumaka kills itself off too quickly, too unreliable, too slow without Choice Scarf (stopping it from setting up Sunny Day on its own), and too easily revenge-killed to warrant the hassle of getting it into play while Sun is up.
Sewaddle: Chlorophyll is generally enough for Speed control; Sticky Web is a bit overkill. If you're that worried about Scarf users, it's much better just to account for them defensively or run a positive Speed nature instead of using a generally mediocre Pokemon like Sewaddle.
Hoppip: Despite an interesting set of STAB moves and access to U-turn, Memento, and Sleep Powder, Hoppip's absurdly low stats leave it trivial to deal with for any solid team. Hoppip's biggest strength is how menacing it is - use that to your advantage.
Charmander: Sigh, looks like someone really wants to use Charmander. Charmander is really just not viable competitively. It's revenge-killed much more easily than Ponyta or Houndour, is too frail from Solar Power to really attempt to set up Sun on its own, has no immunities or bulk to get itself into play on, and is completely reliant on Vulpix to be of any use.
Seedot: I guess it gets Defog?
Sunkern: ha ha


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Checking Sun may seem daunting due to Bellsprout's fantastic coverage, but there are a few Pokemon that Sun teams often struggle against.

Defensive Ponyta. Eviolite Ponyta hard counters Vulpix, easily stalling out Fire Blast's PP and OHKOing after Stealth Rock in return with a Sun-boosted Flare Blitz. Flame Charge Ponyta can outspeed 13 Speed Bellsprout after a single boost, allowing it to effortlessly clean unprepared Sun teams. Ponyta can also switch into Bellsprout somewhat after Sleep Clause has been activated, although it is 2HKOed by Eviolite Bellsprout's Sludge Bomb after Stealth Rock, and takes a lot from Acid Downpour. Offensive Ponyta is less reliable at checking Vulpix and Bellsprout but is still fairly threatening.

Carvanha. If Carvanha nets enough Speed boosts, it outspeeds Chlorophyll users and heavily damages them with Crunch; a Special Carvanha variant can cleanly OHKO Eviolite Bellsprout with Ice Beam. It also stalls out precious Sun turns with Protect. However, Carvanha's Water-type STAB moves have their damage reduced by Sun.

Bulky Vullaby. On top of generally being a fantastic pivot and Knock Off spreader, bulky Vullaby makes for a strong answer to Sun. Its naturally high Special bulk allows it to withstand Bellsprout's attacks, and Overcoat lets it switch in on Sleep Powder. However, the standard 25 HP/14 SpD variant is 2HKOed by Life Orb Bellsprout's Weather Ball; running more Special Defense to reach 16 SpD helps to prevent this, but it is still 2HKOed after Stealth Rock. In addition, Vullaby should be wary of Acid Downpour, as this can KO after some prior damage and otherwise leaves Vullaby too weak to do much else in the game.

Mareanie. The most solid Fire check in the tier, Mareanie ensures that Vulpix, Ponyta, and Houndour will not be offensive threats until Mareanie is trapped by Diglett. It also has the raw bulk to stall out Sun turns with Recover against Chlorophyll sweepers if they lack Growth and Sleep Clause has been activated.

Alolan Grimer. Grimer resists Bellsprout's STAB moves and can avoid the OHKO from Bellsprout's Weather Ball without issue, although it can be 2HKOed by the right combination of moves by all Bellsprout variants after Stealth Rock. Even if it is hit by Sleep Powder, it has the bulk to stall out some Sun turns.

Life Orb Torchic. Definitely the most offensively threatening Pokemon for Sun. Vulpix is OHKOed by Sun-boosted Fire Blast after Stealth Rock and even 23 HP/14 SpD Mienfoo has a good chance of being OHKOed; Staryu is 2HKOed by HP Grass, and defensive variants are unable to OHKO Torchic because of their weakened STAB attacks. Onix and Kabuto are OHKOed by HP Grass. LO Torchic becomes much easier to deal with if niche options like Mareanie and Numel are used, however.

Hippopotas. Specially Defensive Hippopotas is the go-to check for teams that desperately need a Sun check. By converting Weather Ball into a Rock-type move and causing Solar Beam to take up an extra turn to charge, Hippopotas effortlessly walls standard Bellsprout variants and leaves it prone to revenge-killers. It also walls Vulpix, though it dislikes burns. The main thing to watch out for is Giga Drain on secondary Chlorophyll sweepers like Bulbasaur especially, as well as the rare Bloom Doom Chlorophyll sweeper.

Amaura. Similarly to Hippopotas, Amaura shuts down Bellsprout by setting up a different weather, causing Weather Ball to become Ice-type and Solar Beam to require a charge-up turn. Also similarly to Hippopotas, it fears Giga Drain Chlorophyll sweepers and the occasional Bloom Doom. Amaura's lack of recovery means that it struggles to switch into Vulpix repeatedly.

Munchlax. This catch-all Special wall is one of the sturdiest Sun checks around, with the Eviolite variant withstanding even a Growth-boosted Acid Downpour from Bellsprout, allowing it to retaliate with a Sun-boosted Fire Punch. In addition, Munchlax shuts down most Fire-types, including Vulpix and any attempts at Fire spam. However, Munchlax's drawbacks in the current metagame may render it difficult to fit onto a team.

Houndour. Houndour completely walls Vulpix thanks to Flash Fire, is generally difficult to switch into, and can threaten a weakened Bellsprout with a powerful Sucker Punch if Sleep Clause is activated. Eviolite Houndour is often considered a mediocre set but is able to withstand Life Orb Bellsprout's Sludge Bomb after Stealth Rock to retaliate with a Sun-boosted Fire Blast or Flame Charge.

Scarf Elekid. If you're going for the unexpected Sun counterteam, this can be a fun choice. Sun sweepers rarely reach more than 28 Speed, allowing Elekid to outspeed them and do a good amount of damage with Psychic. However, Elekid is extremely weak for an offensive Pokemon without Life Orb, so this should only be considered if you have good reason to expect Sun.

Alolan Vulpix and Snover. Although they lose badly to Vulpix and do not enjoy switching in on Bellsprout's Sludge Bomb, they can come in on a predicted Solar Beam or Weather Ball and cut Bellsprout's sweep short.

Scarf Doduo and Gastly. These are the more common 27 Speed Scarf users. They are fast enough to revenge-kill 13 Speed Bellsprout, but are outsped by 14 Speed Bellsprout and Bulbasaur. Gastly also needs some prior damage to KO Eviolite Bellsprout.

Scarf Diglett and Taillow. Some more niche Scarf users that are more reliably able to outspeed Chlorophyll sweepers and revenge-kill them once weakened.

Focus Sash Abra, Gastly, and Diglett. Abra, Gastly, and Diglett are common Focus Sash users that are able to revenge-kill Bellsprout if they can keep their Focus Sashes intact, though Diglett and Gastly need some prior damage. At worst, they are hit by Sleep Powder and stall out some Sun turns or go for the one turn sleep. Diglett can also revenge-kill Vulpix, or even directly switch into Vulpix's Fire Blast or Energy Ball (assuming Vulpix isn't Quick Attack), as well as Will-O-Wisp if Vulpix has taken Stealth Rock damage, and KO with Earthquake; this is a risky move due to Flame Charge Vulpix, however.

Aipom, Meowth, and Fake Out Mienfoo. Fake Out users are able to simultaneously get some chip damage in on Sun sweepers and stall out Sun turns, as well as revenge-kill a weakened Chlorophyll sweeper. They also all easily have the power to force Vulpix out.

Wynaut. If Sleep Clause is activated and the Chlorophyll user does not carry Growth, Wynaut can actually risk directly switching into the Chlorophyll sweeper and clicking Mirror Coat. It also badly threatens Chlorophyll sweepers on the revenge-kill by potentially locking them into Growth with Encore, which is relatively safe to use thanks to Wynaut's naturally good Special bulk coupled with Berry Juice allowing it to avoid the 2HKO from most attacks. Vulpix has counterplay with Will-O-Wisp but Wynaut can still stall out Sun turns.

SturdyJuice users. If Sturdy is kept intact, SturdyJuice users can withstand an attack from a Chlorophyll sweeper or Vulpix and hit back hard, or at least stall out Sun turns if slept. Endure SturdyJuice Magnemite can attempt to stall Sun out fully with Recycle, after which it walls Bellsprout.

Sticky Web. Due to stats rounding down, 13 Speed Bellsprout reaches 17 Speed after Chlorophyll and Sticky Web, while 14 Speed Bellsprout and Bulbasaur reach 18 Speed. This allows for faster Webs abusers like Abra, Gastly, and Doduo to revenge-kill them. Vulpix is a non-issue for most Webs teams.

Strong Priority. Once Chlorophyll sweepers have taken enough chip damage, they can be taken out by various priority moves.

There are a few other niche options to deal with Sun, such as Chlorophyll Deerling, Chespin, Fletchling, and Copycat Riolu, but these are generally considered unviable.

If you've run out of Sun checks and there is a Chlorophyll sweeper on the field, smart switches into resistances can help to stall out Sun turns. This can also be used to get Sleep Clause activated on a Pokemon that Bellsprout doesn't need to put to sleep, so that you can use your Sun check without worrying about Sleep Powder. Be careful of Growth, however.


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I was planning on doing posts like this one for a few other effective offensive archetypes (fish spam, Zigzagoon offense, webs), but this post turned out to be longer than I thought, so I probably won't get around to it.

So what do you guys think of Sun? Do you think it's too strong, or still not that good? Are there any Sun teams that you have used that this post might not have covered adequately, or checks that I missed?

March 3 - moved Oddish and Torchic to 1/5; added Drilbur to 0/5; fixed a typo
 
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Gummy

...three, smiles go for miles!
Sun is an offensive archetype that primarily abuses the doubled Speed of Chlorophyll users, allowing them to take advantage of their coverage, power, and utility to attempt a sweep. It is similar to teams based around Shellder or Zigzagoon in that it primarily aims to clean with a potent offensive Pokemon, in this case Bellsprout. Like those teams, Sun struggles against a well-prepared team carrying good checks to its sweeper; the most notable Sun checks are defensive Vullaby, defensive Ponyta, Munchlax, and Hippopotas. In addition, Sun-based sweepers are on a timer, and rely heavily on the hazard-weak Vulpix to repeatedly set it up. Despite this, the unpredictability and power of a well-played Bellsprout allows Sun to not only be viable, but extremely threatening.

Offensive Fire-types are an alternative way to abuse Sun over Chlorophyll Pokemon, but this tends to be a less common strategy except when used in conjunction with Bellsprout. It stacks weaknesses with Vulpix, while not having the initial Speed that makes Chlorophyll stacking so strong. Numel used to be the main example of this, but we now have Z-Sunny Day Ponyta and Houndour as well.

Keep in mind that I am discussing dedicated Sun teams; Vulpix sees occasional usage on general offense for its wallbreaking strength, even when not paired with Bellsprout. Those do not fall under the Sun archetype because they aren't based around weather.


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Sun was considered a somewhat viable but ultimately mostly irrelevant strategy in ADV and DPP LC due to the lack of an auto-setter; Rain was the more prevalent manual weather due to a greater variety of strong abusers. The archetype hit an all-time low in gen 5 after Drought Vulpix was banned, as it was easily countered by ubiquitous Sand teams on top of its usual drawbacks. Gen 6 came along and Vulpix was freed; Sun was initially a very dominant strategy due to the presence of Tangela, but after Tangela was banned, it appeared to have lost almost all of its viability.

Shortly after Murkrow and Meditite were banned toward the end of XY, queenlucy began working on a very irritating team that, until then, would have been laughed off as a gimmick. By the time Misdreavus was banned, XY Sun had been all but perfected. Despite the popularity of Fletchling, Sun was otherwise relatively unprepared for; it soon came to be known as a very effective strategy, even gaining a few ban requests along the way. As the metagame adapted and shifted, Pokemon like Diglett, Vullaby, and Hippopotas became more prominent; Sun began to fade back into obscurity, though it remained a legitimate strategy for the rest of the generation. A few new Sun builds appeared here and there in ORAS, but it would never come close to matching its height in post-Missy until gen 7 rolled along.

With gen 7 came the nerf to Gale Wings, and with the nerf to Gale Wings, the near complete disappearance of Fletchling from the metagame. Just like that, Sun lost its worst enemy; suddenly, Bellsprout was that much harder to prepare for, and Sun could afford to branch out in many different ways. The most notable new Sun build is double Chlorophyll, which accounts for all three uses of Sun in SPL so far; two of those have been wins. This puts double Chlorophyll at nearly the level of the most popular offensive archetypes, including Shellder offense and Fighting spam. The days of Sun being nothing more than a fun gimmick are long gone.


SuMo Sun vs ORAS Sun:

+++ Fletchling was able to instantly shut down a Bellsprout sweep in gen 6 with its priority Acrobatics; it is no longer competitively relevant in gen 7.
++ Porygon was by far the most common defensive Pokemon in gen 6, and checked Sun quite well with its standard Download and defensive Trace sets.
++ The addition of Z-moves allow Sun sweepers to bypass bulky Pokemon that they would otherwise be walled against. This especially benefits teams with multiple Chlorophyll sweepers.
++ Staryu is now incredibly easy to include on a team, and benefits Sun both as a strong spinner and as a switchin opportunity for Bellsprout.
+ Sucker Punch has been nerfed and Pawniard usage has decreased, which helps because strong priority is quite troublesome against a weakened Sun sweeper.
+ Fairy-types are strong right now, granting Bellsprout and Vulpix more switchin opportunities.
+ Carvanha usage has decreased slightly, which results from how good Timburr is.
~ Timburr is often specially frailer, allowing Sun sweepers to break through it earlier on. However, it now more frequently carries Ice Punch.
~ Vulpix has a good matchup against Alolan Vulpix and Hail teams, but Bellsprout dislikes having Sun removed.
~ Vullaby has become more common, but is often a frail sweeping or Scarf variant, which Bellsprout does not have as much difficulty breaking through.
- Scarf users more frequently reach 27 Speed or higher, allowing them to outspeed 13 Speed Bellsprout. This is a direct adaptation to Sun's prevalence.
- Alolan Grimer is one of the most splashable Pokemon in the metagame and acts as a decent Sun check.


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Most Sun teams can be classified into one of the following subarchetypes.


Traditional Sun: an offensive build that aims to get Bellsprout, the team's main wall-breaker and sweeper, into play as often as possible. When Sun was first brought into the limelight in late XY, it was with this sort of build.
Key Pokemon: Vulpix, Bellsprout, Mienfoo, Archen, Staryu, Diglett, Onix, Numel, Pawniard, Snubbull
Shine Bright Like a Vulpix


Sun Balance: a more defensive build is utilized alongside the basic core of Vulpix and Bellsprout in a mostly detached manner, aiming to whittle the opposition down until Bellsprout can clean without trouble late in the match. The safest way to use Sun in terms of match-up, but it takes advantage of Bellsprout the least.
Key Pokemon: Vulpix, Bellsprout, Mienfoo, Archen, Staryu, Slowpoke, Mareanie, various defensive cores


Double Chlorophyll: this hyper offensive build takes advantage of both Bellsprout and Bulbasaur to put absurd amounts of pressure on shared checks, and also makes both Chlorophyll users more expendable, at the cost of stacking weaknesses and a reliance on Sun being up.
Key Pokemon: Vulpix, Bellsprout, Bulbasaur, Mienfoo, Archen, Staryu, Diglett, Kabuto, Onix


Double Fire: by running Ponyta or Houndour alongside Vulpix and Bellsprout, you gain an extra Sunny Day user to support Bellsprout as well as a strong secondary sweeper. Similarly to double Chlorophyll, however, you stack weaknesses, and without the Speed boost from Chlorophyll, other hyper offensive archetypes become troublesome.
Key Pokemon: Vulpix, Bellsprout, Ponyta, Numel, Houndour, Mienfoo, Archen, Staryu, Slowpoke, Mareanie
Sample teams (Z-Ponyta Sun is the first SuMo team listed)


Triple Chlorophyll: an even more extreme take on double Chlorophyll, but at this point, stacking so many weaknesses leads to a very large degree of unreliability; expect to see outright unwinnable match-ups more often.
Key Pokemon: Vulpix, Bellsprout, Bulbasaur, Cherubi, Exeggcute, Riolu, Cottonee, Archen, Kabuto, Onix


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Here are some things that every, or almost every competitive Sun team should have:

Vulpix, the most reliable Sun setter and abuser.
Backup Sun setters: Diglett Cottonee, Riolu

Bellsprout, the most threatening Sun abuser and its main sweeper. A possible exception could be made for teams based purely on Fire spam, but these would generally be improved by Bellsprout anyway, as Bellsprout synergizes with Fire-types defensively and is generally just too good with Sun support to pass up.
Backup Chlorophyll sweepers: Bulbasaur, Cherubi, Exeggcute

A Stealth Rock user. All offensive teams should have hazards to secure key KOs and take advantage of forced switches, but Sun in particular benefits from Stealth Rock as many of its checks, such as Flying- and Fire-types, are weak to it, and Sun teams have the means to heavily pressure Staryu.
Stealth Rock setters for Sun: Archen, Diglett, Kabuto, Onix, Pawniard, Cranidos, Omanyte

A Rapid Spin or Defog user. Since a Sun abuser outside of Vulpix will have a maximum of 7 turns to sweep, it's important to keep Vulpix healthy so that it can set Sun up repeatedly. Extremely offensive Sun teams with multiple reliable Sun setters can potentially forgo this, but doing so still isn't ideal.
Hazard removal for Sun: Archen, Staryu, Kabuto

A solid Ponyta check. Hippopotas and Munchlax are uncommon enough to acceptably risk a weak match-up against, and birds naturally have a good amount of counterplay, but if you're not prepared for Flame Charge or Z-Sunny Day Ponyta, it will ruin your (sunny) day. Ponyta comes in on Vulpix for free and can soft check Bellsprout even if it doesn't sweep.
Ponyta checks for Sun: Archen, Staryu, Diglett, Kabuto, Onix, Slowpoke, Ponyta, Numel, Mareanie, Houndour, Cranidos, Chinchou, Omanyte

A bird check. This doesn't have to be especially reliable, because most birds lack switch-in opportunities and can simply be worn down, as well as revenge-killed by Bellsprout under the Sun when weakened. However, being completely unprepared for them is begging to be swept by bird spam or a well played offensive Vullaby.
Bird checks for Sun: Archen, Staryu, Kabuto, Onix, Slowpoke, Magnemite, Cranidos, Chinchou, Omanyte


And some things that most Sun teams should have:

VoltTurn. This is enormously helpful to get Vulpix and Chlorophyll abusers into play safely, as they often struggle to switch in otherwise with their low bulk.
VoltTurn users for Sun: Mienfoo, Archen, Magnemite, Chinchou

Knock Off. Bellsprout fails to OHKO many bulky Eviolite users, even if it is carrying a Life Orb; removing their Eviolites gives Bellsprout a much easier time sweeping.
Knock Off users for Sun: Bellsprout, Mienfoo, Archen, Bulbasaur, Kabuto, Pawniard, Cottonee, Timburr, Omanyte

A Pawniard check. Pawniard's Sucker Punch is the strongest priority against Chlorophyll users that you will commonly see; Bellsprout and Bulbasaur resist the other two important priority move types in Fighting and Water.
Pawniard checks for Sun: Mienfoo, Diglett, Ponyta, Numel, Houndour, Riolu, Timburr


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Now I'll try and describe some good Pokemon to include on Sun teams.


5/5 - All competitive Sun teams should have them.
Vulpix: The only auto-setter of Sun in LC and the reason why Sun is viable at all. Having an auto-setter allows sun to be set up in a huge amount of situations where it would otherwise be costly or impossible to set. Vulpix also synergizes defensively with Chlorophyll abusers and offensively with other Fire-types, in addition to being a decent Pokemon on its own, leaving no reason not to use it on any competitive Sun team.
Bellsprout: The gold standard for Sun abusers and the reason why Sun is such a strong archetype. Access to both pseudo-STAB Weather Ball and STAB Sludge Bomb makes it more difficult to switch into than any other Chlorophyll abuser, on top of some more niche options such as Sucker Punch and Knock Off to make it the most versatile of them as well. Its strength and unpredictability rank it as one the most threatening offensive Pokemon under the Sun, and the only reason to use other Sun abusers is to take advantage of their offensive synergy with Bellsprout. Eviolite, Life Orb, Poisonium-Z, and Grassium-Z with Sleep Powder or Growth in the last slot are the most common ways to use Bellsprout.


4/5 - These offer a huge amount to sun teams; expect to see about as many sun teams with them as without.
Mienfoo
: On top of being one of LC's best Pokemon to begin with, Eviolite Mienfoo's utility is especially appreciated for Sun teams, making it about as close to a mandatory support Pokemon for Sun as you can get, excluding Vulpix. Knock Off wears down bulky Pokemon that Chlorophyll sweepers struggle to OHKO; Regenerator allows it to check Pawniard throughout the match; and, most importantly, Regenerator + U-turn lets Mienfoo get Vulpix in safely throughout the match. Slow Mienfoo is the most common variant found on Sun to get Vulpix in safely with U-turn against more threats, but faster spreads to better check Pawniard and get off a fast Taunt are viable as well.
Archen
: Though strong offensively, Sun cores need a lot of support to pull off a sweep against a solid team. Archen offers so much in a single slot that it can be hard to pass up; even though it can't do everything at once, it can always offer something helpful while the rest of the team patches up any remaining holes. Defog, Stealth Rock, checking birds, soft checking Ponyta, Knock Off, and U-turn are all things Archen can attempt to do while maintaining a strong offensive presence. Berry Juice Archen is more common for its offensive presence, but Eviolite Archen is fine as well.
Staryu
: It may seem odd to run a Water-type on Sun, but the three most threatening Pokemon to Sun are Ponyta, Hippopotas, and Munchlax; Staryu happens to hard check the first two, while Munchlax is relatively uncommon. Furthermore, Staryu provides invaluable Rapid Spin support so that Vulpix can get into play more often, and forms a Fire-Water-Grass core with Vulpix and Bellsprout, making it an extremely strong option for a variety of Sun teams despite having its Scald weakened. Eviolite variants are preferred to better check what they need to while not being as badly held back by a weakened STAB move.


3/5 - Great picks for a variety of sun builds, but a bit less splashable than the above.
Diglett
: Being able to trap and weaken Ponyta with the Focus Sash variant is nice, as is a well-timed Tectonic Rage on a bulky Pokemon. The main use for Diglett, however, is trapping Pawniard, Abra, and SturdyJuice Magnemite so that Chlorophyll sweepers can save Sleep Powder for something else. Diglett also has a variety of other tools up its sleeve to make it a very useful support Pokemon for Sun, including Stealth Rock, Sucker Punch, Memento, an immunity to Volt Switch, and Sunny Day.
Bulbasaur
: Though outclassed by Bellsprout on traditional Sun teams since Weather Ball isn't compatible with Chlorophyll, Bulbasaur is definitely the best choice for double Chlorophyll, as its checks are identical to Bellsprout's, allowing one to support the other's Growth sweep with a well-timed Sleep Powder or Z-move. Bulbasaur's advantage over Bellsprout is its higher Speed to deal with certain troublesome Choice Scarf users or setup sweepers. It also has slightly better bulk, beats Chespin, and is quite threatening in its own right.
Kabuto
: A reasonable alternative to Archen for its ability to more reliably check defensive Ponyta and birds, on top of the advantages of Rapid Spin over Defog. Its relative lack of offensive presence due to weak STAB moves and lower Attack generally makes it the lesser choice, but it is seen more often on double and triple Chlorophyll teams that are especially vulnerable to defensive Ponyta and cannot find room to fit a backup check.
Onix
: Generally paired with Staryu to serve as the bird check of the team, as Staryu can Rapid Spin for Onix to take advantage of SturdyJuice. In addition to checking birds, Onix can check Ponyta, deter Volt Switch to give Vulpix and Bellsprout more opportunities to come in, serve as a decent safety net if it can come in at full health, and is arguably the most reliable Stealth Rock setter in the metagame, making it a great choice for role compression.


2/5 - Decent but niche picks for specific roles.
Slowpoke
: One of the most reliable Ponyta, smasher, and Ground checks in the metagame. Staryu tends to be used more for the sake of role compression with its access to Rapid Spin, as well as Slowpoke's weakness to Vullaby, but Slowpoke can be paired with Archen in particular to good effect.
Ponyta
: Fire spam is a viable strategy to muscle through balance especially, as well as providing an easy way to fit in a secondary Sun setter. Offensive Ponyta is an ideal candidate for a partner to Vulpix thanks to its Speed and power.
Numel
: Simple Numel is interesting in that although it is relatively tame after a single turn of setup, it is among the most threatening Pokemon in the metagame after two. Sun makes Numel's Simple Growth even more terrifying, and it lets Numel withstand weak Scalds while setting up.
Mareanie
: Mareanie is the most reliable Ponyta check in the game, granting it a similar role to Slowpoke as a good back-up Fire check on teams utilizing Archen. It has very little offensive presence and is prone to being trapped by Diglett, but handles Fighting-types quite well.
Pawniard
: Scarf Pawniard is a decent choice for role compression on Sun, providing Knock Off, Pursuit, and potentially Stealth Rock support. However, it stacks weaknesses to Ponyta and doesn't offer much defensively, which is why it is less prominent than it was for gen 6 Sun.
Snubbull
: Despite stacking weaknesses to Fire-types, Snubbull is useful on offense in general for being an extremely solid Fighting check while not losing momentum as badly as Spritzee. It doesn't offer much else, but that alone can grant it a team slot and made it a staple of gen 6 sun.
Houndour
: The main competition for Ponyta as a z-Sunny Day user, offering strong priority in Sucker Punch and stronger Fire Blasts/Solar Beams in exchange for Ponyta's higher initial Speed and access to Hypnosis.


1/5 - Usable on very specific sun builds.

Cherubi: If you're really into fast offensive Grass-types and want to go for triple Sun, Cherubi tends to be the best choice, as its access to Weather Ball makes it reasonably threatening in its own right, and it can support Vulpix or its fellow Chlorophyll abusers with Healing Wish. However, it's outclassed on double Chlorophyll by Bulbasaur due to its lack of a useful Poison typing and Sleep Powder, as well as overall worse stats.
Magnemite: Though it was a better choice for Sun when Misdreavus and Fletchling were relevant, Magnemite still serves as a decent bird check, slow Volt Switcher, and either a Pawniard trapper or safety net, depending on whether it chooses to run Magnet Pull or SturdyJuice. It stacks some weaknesses, however.
Cottonee: Double and triple Chlorophyll may appreciate a reliable secondary Sun setter. Cottonee acts as this through Prankster Sunny Day, and can also attempt to wear down checks to Chlorophyll abusers with Knock Off. It can be run with Heat Rock or Eject Button.
Riolu: The more defensive synergy minded Prankster Sun setter compared to Cottonee, Riolu has the benefit of soft checking Pawniard and not stacking weaknesses.
Cranidos: Usable for role compression to set up rocks, check Flying-types, and uniquely over other Rock-types bar Larvitar, Pursuit trap weakened Flying-types and possibly Abra. However, Archen's and Onix's advantages tend to be more useful overall.
Exeggcute: It has some real advantages over Bulbasaur on double Chlorophyll and Cherubi on triple Chlorophyll due to its access to STAB Psychic, great physical bulk, and ability to beat most Abra. The reason it is generally inferior on double Chlorophyll is that it is quite weak initially, needing Life Orb or some prior damage to OHKO even fast Eviolite Mienfoo, and being weak to U-turn and Knock Off actually makes it less reliable of a Fighting switch-in.
Chinchou: It's a good check to Ponyta and birds, and also offers a slow Volt Switch to get Vulpix in, but is prone to being worn down, and can't stall out Sun with a recovery move the way Staryu, Slowpoke, and Mareanie can.
Timburr: If you are badly in need of a soft check to smashers, or would like some strong priority for Pawniard and Carvanha, Timburr is an understandable alternative to Mienfoo, but U-turn is hard to give up.
Omanyte: Kabuto tends to be compared to hazard Omanyte, so Omanyte is a somewhat reasonable alternative due to its access to Spikes. However, hazard removal is extremely important to keep Vulpix healthy, and Omanyte does not synergize well with Staryu or Archen; furthermore, its other advantage of superior offensive presence is mitigated by Sun.


0/5 - These potentially have uses on sun but are difficult to justify competitively; they tend to be badly outclassed by other choices. This is where boring old levi criticizes your attempt at creativity.

Deerling: I suppose this is the most justifiable of the unviable Sun Pokemon. Jump Kick lets Deerling break through Munchlax, but Munchlax is too uncommon to warrant dedicating an entire Pokemon to beating. The higher Speed lets it outrun +2 15 Speed Vullaby, as well as Scarf Diglett and Elekid, but these are relatively specific scenarios. On the other hand, Deerling's drawbacks over other Chlorophyll Pokemon are huge. As it is forced to go physical due to its abysmal Special Attack, Deerling sorely misses out on Fire coverage and the power of Solar Beam. This is coupled with Deerling's lack of Sleep Powder, inability to boost its Attack outside of Work Up, and naturally mediocre Attack, rendering it far less threatening than other Chlorophyll sweepers.
Oddish: Oddish may be tempting to use on double or triple Chlorophyll for its decent bulk, but it stacks weaknesses unnecessarily on triple Chlorophyll. On double Chlorophyll, its awful Speed tier forces it to run Timid, generally leaving it outclassed by the more versatile Bulbasaur.
Torchic: Speed Boost + Sun-boosted Fire Blast looks like a very nice combination. Unfortunately, Torchic has nothing else offensively; its lack of Solar Beam means that Ponyta and Houndour are able to threaten a far greater variety of teams. Also, keep in mind that we're still stacking weaknesses with Vulpix here
Petilil: Another Healing Wish Chlorophyll Pokemon, trading Weather Ball for Sleep Powder over Cherubi. However, due to Sleep Clause, only one of the triple Chlorophyll core should really be running Sleep Powder, making access to a strong coverage move in Weather Ball the far superior benefit..
Litleo: You may compare Litleo's stats to Houndour's and Ponyta's and think that it has a niche, but missing out on Flash Fire is a huge loss for an archetype that tends to be weak to opposing Fire-types. Furthermore, it lacks Houndour's priority and Ponyta's great Speed tier, leaving it vulnerable to offensive builds and generally outclassed.
Dwebble: Often compared to hazard Omanyte in its niche. It synergizes with Staryu a little bit better - too bad it offers absolutely nothing for Sun outside of hazards and a soft bird check. It's not worth using on Sun over better role compression Pokemon.
Larvitar: It gets Pursuit, soft checks birds, and shuts down defensive Ponyta. It's also extremely weak initially, loses to Volt Switch users despite its immunity, and is generally not very threatening; it's simply too underwhelming of a Pokemon to warrant competitive use.
Purrloin: Between its low offensive stats, terrible bulk, and lack of resistances, Purrloin is the perfect combination of mediocrity to not ever be worth using over its Prankster brethen.
Salandit: Poison STAB may seem like a noteworthy niche over Ponyta and Houndour, but it comes at the cost of the far more useful Solar Beam. Salandit also misses out on Flash Fire, Ponyta's Speed, and Houndour's strong priority.
Darumaka: Impressive as a Sun-boosted Hustle Flare Blitz may be, Darumaka kills itself off too quickly, too unreliable, too slow without Choice Scarf (stopping it from setting up Sunny Day on its own), and too easily revenge-killed to warrant the hassle of getting it into play while Sun is up.
Sewaddle: Chlorophyll is generally enough for Speed control; Sticky Web is a bit overkill. If you're that worried about Scarf users, it's much better just to account for them defensively or run a positive Speed nature instead of using a generally mediocre Pokemon like Sewaddle.
Hoppip: Despite an interesting set of STAB moves and access to U-turn, Memento, and Sleep Powder, Hoppip's absurdly low stats leave it trivial to deal with for any solid team. Hoppip's biggest strength is how menacing it is - use that to your advantage.
Charmander: Sigh, looks like someone really wants to use Charmander. Charmander is really just not viable competitively. It's revenge-killed much more easily than Ponyta or Houndour, is too frail from Solar Power to really attempt to set up Sun on its own, has no immunities or bulk to get itself into play on, and is completely reliant on Vulpix to be of any use.
Seedot: I guess it gets Defog?
Sunkern: ha ha


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Checking Sun may seem daunting due to Bellsprout's fantastic coverage, but there are a few Pokemon that Sun teams often struggle against.

Defensive Ponyta. Eviolite Ponyta hard counters Vulpix, easily stalling out Fire Blast's PP and OHKOing after Stealth Rock in return with a Sun-boosted Flare Blitz. Flame Charge Ponyta can outspeed 13 Speed Bellsprout after a single boost, allowing it to effortlessly clean unprepared Sun teams. Ponyta can also switch into Bellsprout somewhat after Sleep Clause has been activated, although it is 2HKOed by Eviolite Bellsprout's Sludge Bomb after Stealth Rock, and takes a lot from Acid Downpour. Offensive Ponyta is less reliable at checking Vulpix and Bellsprout but is still fairly threatening.

Carvanha. If Carvanha nets enough Speed booosts, it outspeeds Chlorophyll users and heavily damages them with Crunch; a Special Carvanha variant can cleanly OHKO Eviolite Bellsprout with Ice Beam. It also stalls out precious Sun turns with Protect. However, Carvanha's Water-type STAB moves have their damage reduced by Sun.

Bulky Vullaby. On top of generally being a fantastic pivot and Knock Off spreader, bulky Vullaby makes for a strong answer to Sun. Its naturally high Special bulk allows it to withstand Bellsprout's attacks, and Overcoat lets it switch in on Sleep Powder. However, the standard 25 HP/14 SpD variant is 2HKOed by Life Orb Bellsprout's Weather Ball; running more Special Defense to reach 16 SpD helps to prevent this, but it is still 2HKOed after Stealth Rock. In addition, Vullaby should be wary of Acid Downpour, as this can KO after some prior damage and otherwise leaves Vullaby too weak to do much else in the game.

Mareanie. The most solid Fire check in the tier, Mareanie ensures that Vulpix, Ponyta, and Houndour will not be offensive threats until Mareanie is trapped by Diglett. It also has the raw bulk to stall out Sun turns with Recover against Chlorophyll sweepers if they lack Growth and Sleep Clause has been activated.

Alolan Grimer. Grimer resists Bellsprout's STAB moves and can avoid the OHKO from Bellsprout's Weather Ball without issue, although it can be 2HKOed by the right combination of moves by all Bellsprout variants after Stealth Rock. Even if it is hit by Sleep Powder, it has the bulk to stall out some Sun turns.

Life Orb Torchic. Definitely the most offensively threatening Pokemon for Sun. Vulpix is OHKOed by Sun-boosted Fire Blast after Stealth Rock and even 23 HP/14 SpD Mienfoo has a good chance of being OHKOed; Staryu is 2HKOed by HP Grass, and defensive variants are unable to OHKO Torchic because of their weakened STAB attacks. Onix and Kabuto are OHKOed by HP Grass. LO Torchic becomes much easier to deal with if niche options like Mareanie and Numel are used, however.

Hippopotas. Specially Defensive Hippopotas is the go-to check for teams that desperately need a Sun check. By converting Weather Ball into a Rock-type move and causing Solar Beam to take up an extra turn to charge, Hippopotas effortlessly walls standard Bellsprout variants and leaves it prone to revenge-killers. It also walls Vulpix, though it dislikes burns. The main thing to watch out for is Giga Drain on secondary Chlorophyll sweepers like Bulbasaur especially, as well as the rare Bloom Doom Chlorophyll sweeper.

Amaura. Similarly to Hippopotas, Amaura shuts down Bellsprout by setting up a different weather, causing Weather Ball to become Ice-type and Solar Beam to require a charge-up turn. Also similarly to Hippopotas, it fears Giga Drain Chlorophyll sweepers and the occasional Bloom Doom. Amaura's lack of recovery means that it struggles to switch into Vulpix repeatedly.

Munchlax. This catch-all Special wall is one of the sturdiest Sun checks around, with the Eviolite variant withstanding even a Growth-boosted Acid Downpour from Bellsprout, allowing it to retaliate with a Sun-boosted Fire Punch. In addition, Munchlax shuts down most Fire-types, including Vulpix and any attempts at Fire spam. However, Munchlax's drawbacks in the current metagame may render it difficult to fit onto a team.

Houndour. Houndour completely walls Vulpix thanks to Flash Fire, is generally difficult to switch into, and can threaten a weakened Bellsprout with a powerful Sucker Punch if Sleep Clause is activated. Eviolite Houndour is often considered a mediocre set but is able to withstand Life Orb Bellsprout's Sludge Bomb after Stealth Rock to retaliate with a Sun-boosted Fire Blast or Flame Charge.

Scarf Elekid. If you're going for the unexpected Sun counterteam, this can be a fun choice. Sun sweepers rarely reach more than 28 Speed, allowing Elekid to outspeed them and do a good amount of damage with Psychic. However, Elekid is extremely weak for an offensive Pokemon without Life Orb, so this should only be considered if you have good reason to expect Sun.

Alolan Vulpix and Snover. Although they lose badly to Vulpix and do not enjoy switching in on Bellsprout's Sludge Bomb, they can come in on a predicted Solar Beam or Weather Ball and cut Bellsprout's sweep short.

Scarf Doduo and Gastly. These are the more common 27 Speed Scarf users. They are fast enough to revenge-kill 13 Speed Bellsprout, but are outsped by 14 Speed Bellsprout and Bulbasaur. Gastly also needs some prior damage to KO Eviolite Bellsprout.

Scarf Diglett and Taillow. Some more niche Scarf users that are more reliably able to outspeed Chlorophyll sweepers and revenge-kill them once weakened.

Focus Sash Abra, Gastly, and Diglett. Abra, Gastly, and Diglett are common Focus Sash users that are able to revenge-kill Bellsprout if they can keep their Focus Sashes intact, though Diglett and Gastly need some prior damage. At worst, they are hit by Sleep Powder and stall out some Sun turns or go for the one turn sleep. Diglett can also revenge-kill Vulpix, or even directly switch into Vulpix's Fire Blast or Energy Ball (assuming Vulpix isn't Quick Attack), as well as Will-O-Wisp if Vulpix has taken Stealth Rock damage, and KO with Earthquake; this is a risky move due to Flame Charge Vulpix, however.

Aipom, Meowth, and Fake Out Mienfoo. Fake Out users are able to simultaneously get some chip damage in on Sun sweepers and stall out Sun turns, as well as revenge-kill a weakened Chlorophyll sweeper. They also all easily have the power to force Vulpix out.

Wynaut. If Sleep Clause is activated and the Chlorophyll user does not carry Growth, Wynaut can actually risk directly switching into the Chlorophyll sweeper and clicking Mirror Coat. It also badly threatens Chlorophyll sweepers on the revenge-kill by potentially locking them into Growth with Encore, which is relatively safe to use thanks to Wynaut's naturally good Special bulk coupled with Berry Juice allowing it to avoid the 2HKO from most attacks. Vulpix has counterplay with Will-O-Wisp but Wynaut can still stall out Sun turns.

SturdyJuice users. If Sturdy is kept intact, SturdyJuice users can withstand an attack from a Chlorophyll sweeper or Vulpix and hit back hard, or at least stall out Sun turns if slept. Endure SturdyJuice Magnemite can attempt to stall Sun out fully with Recycle, after which it walls Bellsprout.

Sticky Web. Due to stats rounding down, 13 Speed Bellsprout reaches 17 Speed after Chlorophyll and Sticky Web, while 14 Speed Bellsprout and Bulbasaur reach 18 Speed. This allows for faster Webs abusers like Abra, Gastly, and Doduo to revenge-kill them. Vulpix is a non-issue for most Webs teams.

Strong Priority. Once Chlorophyll sweepers have taken enough chip damage, they can be taken out by various priority moves.

There are a few other niche options to deal with Sun, such as Chlorophyll Deerling, Chespin, Fletchling, and Copycat Riolu, but these are generally considered unviable.

If you've run out of Sun checks and there is a Chlorophyll sweeper on the field, smart switches into resistances can help to stall out Sun turns. This can also be used to get Sleep Clause activated on a Pokemon that Bellsprout doesn't need to put to sleep, so that you can use your Sun check without worrying about Sleep Powder. Be careful of Growth, however.


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I was planning on doing posts like this one for a few other effective offensive archetypes (fish spam, Zigzagoon offense, webs), but this post turned out to be longer than I thought, so I probably won't get around to it.

So what do you guys think of Sun? Do you think it's too strong, or still not that good? Are there any Sun teams that you have used that this post might not have covered adequately, or checks that I missed?

love levi
 
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I think one of the most influential changes to the metagame would be Fletchling. Fletchling has fallen far from its former throne in LC, being able to quickly revenge kill threats and allow another team member to sweep, it is now the Pokemon needing support. Hazard removal is obvious but you also need a slow U-turn or Volt Switch. This is why the probably best Pokemon to accompany Fletchling are Drilbur, Mienfoo, and Chinchou. Drilbur easily gets rid of hazards as welll setting his own Stealth Rocks making 2HKOS OHKOS and breaking Focus Sashes, allowing Fletchling to burst past Abra and Diglett. Mienfoo and Chinchou, can provide slow U-turns and Volt Switchs, respectively, while also having good bulk with Eviolite to live a hit. Also, I hope Rowan and everyone else is naming their Koffing Smogon.

 
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my favorite lc mon to use... now, maybe not the most viable lc mon, but for sure one of the most entertaining, its JOHN CENA!!! just kidding, its zorua, but i do love using that as its nickname. anyway, looking like your other mons is very handy, and annoying for your opponent. zorua even gets extrasensory for those pesky fighting types like mienfoo. I personally enjoy scarf zorua for killing things that think they're safe from the possibility of zorua because they're faster. also incinerate is fun for killing ferroseeds that think they stand a chance. (they dont)

Maybe, but Zorua is quite frail, meaning opposing (almost anything bulky) will destroy it. The good thing is it can be used multiple times.
 
This is something i've heard brought up a lot on Discord and in the Showdown room but not on the forums so I'd like to bring it up: Drought Suspect under reasoning derived from IV of OU's tiering framework.

IV.) Unhealthy - elements that are neither uncompetitive nor broken, yet deemed undesirable for the metagame such that they inhibit "skillful play" to a large extent.

Levi has written 5000 words on the topic of how Sun teams work if you scroll up 3 posts and this can be seen at high level play by Sun teams doing really well so far in SPL. Facing off against a couple of 26 or 28 sweepers with fantastic Fire/Grass/Poison coverage (Fairy as well if you face the rare Oddish) that can use Sleep Powder or Z-moves to get past checks is terrifying. It's the single biggest threat when building teams and I honestly think it's too restrictive towards building. Levi goes over a good number of options but these all can be bypassed by the great number of options Sun teams have and teammate help like Diglett trapping Ponyta and A-Grimer. If you run a 18 speed scarfer like Gastly to revenge kill Bellsprout and come against the rarer Timid then sorry you just probably lost. My experience is ultimately that Sun teams often come down to far more autopilot plays based on matchup from Team Preview than any other type of team in LC.
 

Berks

has a Calm Mind
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
It was a peaceful time in LittleCupVille, a sleepy town in the fringes of Smogonland. You see, the town had just laid to rest their beloved ORAS metagame; it was a time of mourning, yet it was fulfilling as well, in the same way that a plane ride home from a trip abroad is bittersweet. The town had spent so long enjoying ORAS's company that they had grown accustomed to all its strange quirks and charms. At the funeral, the residents of the village took turns sharing their favorite memories of ORAS in a truly touching service. Corporal Levi and Heysup reflected fondly on ORAS's bright tournament scene, from the LC Open to the LC Tour to LCPL 5 and everything in between! macle attempted to explain why ORAS kept Diglett around so much despite everyone's best efforts to get rid of it, but ultimately just ended up getting annoyed again and storming away. mad0ka reflected fondly on the days of Drifloon and spent four hours ranting about how disappointed she was that ORAS had accidentally let it fly out of its hands. All the other town residents all chimed in too: "She really loved that balloon!" "Remember when 'dan biglett' was a thing?" "Abra is totally broken, you guys!" (nobody really ever listened to that last guy). After a lengthy service, the residents of LittleCupVille had gone out for drinks, spent time laughing, loving, and enjoying each others' company, and then retreated to their homes, where they were put to sleep by a sunset as peaceful and fulfilling as the day they had just lived. The hours of the night were just beginning to wane in LittleCupVille, and all was still well. It was then, however, that Quote, the mayor of the town, woke up suddenly from his sleep, drenched head to toe in sweat.

"That's strange," thought Quote, "I was having a pretty good sleep! Why on earth have I woken up covered in sweat?"

It was then that Quote realized that all was no longer well. As his mind and body gradually shook off the tired fog of an early morning, Quote began to be aware of the extreme discomfort he was experiencing. His bedroom was brightly lit to the point of painfulness despite the fact that his shutters were drawn, and the small space beneath his thin sheets were as hot as a sweltering desert sunbeam. Quote realized then exactly what was wrong.

"Oh no," said Quote, "not again!"

It was Drought season.
_______

Quote rushed to the home of blarajan, the town's beloved "old coot" and one of its former mayors. You see, blarajan had been through the Drought season ages ago; he was the perfect person to help Quote guide the town through another troubling time.

*knock knock knock*

"Huzzawhahmm?!" a surprised blarajan was heard exclaiming behind his door.

"blara! Open up!" yelled Quote.

blarajan opened his door.

"What do you want?" asked blarajan.

"It's the Drought, blara! LittleCupVille is getting hit with another Drought!" replied Quote.

"Okay, just use Porygon then." replied a stone-faced blarajan.

"We can't!"

"Well, why not?"

"We banned it!"

blarajan slammed his door in Quote's face.
_______

While Quote was frantically trying to sort out a solution to the situation, other residents of LittleCupVille were just becoming acquainted with their new climate. Though some residents embraced the new season with double and even triple Chlorophyll gardening arrangements, the vast majority of the town was getting tired of the harsh, beating sun. One brave resident of the town, Dhaora, took it upon himself to try and bring some shade back to the town. Dhaora spent hours upon hours at the drawing table, agonizing over strategies and situations in which he could get the upper hand over the relentless shining sun.

"Aha!" cried Dhaora, drenched in sweat and close to heatstroke, "I've finally done it! This squad will be perfect for fighting back against the sun!"
drag (Magnemite) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 240 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ground]

foo (Foongus) @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 124 HP / 156 Def / 156 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Spore
- Hidden Power [Fire]

larv (Larvesta) @ Eviolite
Ability: Flame Body
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 236 Atk / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Wild Charge
- Zen Headbutt
- Flare Blitz

foo2 (Mienfoo) @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Def / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch
- U-turn
- Acrobatics

yu (Staryu) @ Eviolite
Ability: Analytic
Level: 5
EVs: 156 Def / 116 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Recover

nappy (Vullaby) @ Eviolite
Ability: Weak Armor
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 156 Atk / 76 SpD / 116 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- Roost
- U-turn
"It's the perfect plot!" thought Dhaora. "I'll use Staryu and Sturdy Scarf Magnemite to take out whatever's been keeping this harsh sunlight up, and I'll use Vullaby, Larvesta, and Acrobatics Mienfoo to help control any weeds that might sprout up as a result!"

Dhaora truly thought that he had the answer. He knew for himself that his plan was indeed foolproof! He knew that any plan this solid against a sunny day would absolutely guarantee that he could venture out into the barren wasteland of LittleCupVille without fear. He even knew that his plans could help stir up other residents throughout the town who were also done putting up with the sun's relentless tirade! Dhaora burst through his front door, sauntering into the sunlight with the kind of incredible confidence that is shared only by first-day Goldman Sachs executives and teenage girls on the third month of their study abroad trips. It was then, just after Dhaora stepped into the sunlight, that he knew.

He knew he had been too confident in his plan.

He knew he had underestimated the sun.

He knew he was dead.
_______

Hours later, a frantic Quote stumbled through Dhaora's neighborhood. Seeing the baking, decaying corpse of one of his town's residents, Quote let out a savage, primal cry of despair. As he rushed to the fallen body of his former friend, believing that he was at fault for not acting soon enough, Quote came to a sudden realization. He came to this realization in much the same way that a civil engineer contemplates his blueprints following the collapse of his bridge: he was too late to fix it, but he could to prevent such a catastrophe from ever happening again.

Quote knew what he had to do.

Quote knew he had to end the Drought, save his friends' lives, and restore balance to LittleCupVille.

Quote had to ban the sun.
 
As a noob who could never quite get the reqs for suspect tests I have opinions on Sun that might well be very flawed so please shoot me down if needed.

Now I'm in two minds about Sun teams right now - one, I really dislike them; and two, they're not that bad and we just haven't found the perfect ways of getting around them (though more on that later).

I'm excited to have to play against them due to it being such a stacked matchup that it becomes far more of a puzzle than other teams, but at the same time, they're a pain in the whoopsie when you have only so many checks on your team to sweepers that are so fast, have such great coverage, and deal a damn lot of damage without any setting up on their part. They can switch into moves like ice beam (Bulbasaur can at least - which seems to be being used more for double/triple chloro) that they're weak against and still keep going without much fear of reprisal. Being forced into running multiple Pokemon that can counter this one particular team, which without you're not winning, isn't that great if it leaves you open to the plethora of other teams around like Serene's HO.

So are sun teams bad if they force people to use teams they might not otherwise? I've used a trick room team which has done pretty well against sun (litwick OG), and also the HO teams. But does that count as reducing design space? Or just creating an environment where we do have to think out of the box? It's fun, to a certain extent, seeing the less well-used Pokemon instead of the same Pokemon all the time; I feel like it's forcing a shakeup which is interesting. On the flipside, though, if you have to run either shitty mons, or try and find a broken mon to counter, then we're just saying that it's broken mons vs broken mons, so we should think about nipping it in the bud now?

And finally, they ain't all that if you can take care of Vulpix, or have a generally "strong" team. I don't want to toot my own horn but I think the team I used against Berks is pretty strong, and against 4 Bellsprout and 2 Vulpix it still came down to 2-0. You can usually wiggle your way through by stalling out the sun and chipping away with some predicts. I feel like Sun teams both inhibit skilful play and force it to happen at the same time, you have to predict, you have to play well - but then there usually comes a point in the game where it doesn't even matter.
 

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