Metagame np: SV Ubers Stage 2 - Power

[BolTingBlazie]

I haven't been paying as much attention this suspect test as I did for the Calyrex-Shadow quickban suspect when it dropped alongside Pokémon Home, but I mention Calyrex-Shadow now as a reminder of its Gen 8 Ubers iteration, which because of a lack of Tera and because Yveltal existed made that version of Calyrex-Shadow far more manageable. Gen 9 Ubers Miraidon feels like a very similar situation to me, where some people justifiably wanted it banned because of the warping effect it had on the metagame at large. Here's the thing about suspect tests, though- the order in which different Pokémon, moves, et cetera are tested and/or banned can have an impact on if something further down the line will also be broken. Case in point, an argument can be made for Zacian's Gen 8 iteration indirectly making Calyrex-Shadow more overwhelming than normal, since teams that already needed to prepare for the latter also needed to prepare for the former, which was next to impossible to do at times. In an alternate timeline where Zacian wasn't banned from Gen 8 Ubers, who knows? Maybe that would have been enough to push Calyrex-Shadow over the edge there, too. The world may never know.

The point I want to get across with this story is that I genuinely think Last Respects and Miraidon as a combination are unhealthy, but Miraidon itself isn't. Or at least, not as unhealthy as other AG names like Mega Rayquaza or pre-nerf Zacian were. Cut the Ubers council a bit of slack here- they were on a 50/50 split at one point as to whether Last Respects or Miraidon would be the first one to get suspect tested. I would imagine that the decision was a difficult one for them. They would have to try and account for both sides- would a Last Respects ban make Miraidon more manageable, or would a Miraidon ban make Last Respects more manageable? Either side of that coin would be met with complaints from the playerbase at large, but they can't just suspect both at the same time. My current opinion is that teams that have to over-prepare for Miraidon are unfortunately left extremely vulnerable to Last Respects strats as an unfortunate side effect, but that if Last Respects were to be tested now that this test has concluded, potentially hitting Last Respects with the banhammer means that teams that previously were designed with countering Last Respects teams in mind would now be much more open than they were before to dealing with Miraidon itself.

This idea of "one AG-worthy strategy making another AG strategy harder to deal with at the same time" appears to be the reason why it's (so far, anyway) so difficult, sometimes even impractical to have multiple different Pokémon get banned from Ubers within the same generation. Emphasis on different Pokémon- I'm not counting Zacian's two formes as separate Pokémon here. Another noticeable example of this can be found in the XY era of Gen 6, when complaints were going around about Xerneas as well as Mega Gengar. Gen 6 Xerneas never received the banhammer, and while I can't seem to find a consistent answer for Gen 6 Mega Gengar and if it got banned from Ubers, not only were both Pokémon eventually more manageable in ORAS, but you can make a legitimate argument that a Mega Gengar ban would have made Xerneas more manageable, too, since it's no longer around to try and trap Xerneas's best checks in that era, which is something it could try and do for Xerneas hyper offense teams against bulky Steels and other Ubers while Xerneas returns the favor against the Dark-Types that would threaten Mega Gengar.

(And before you say Pursuit, what happens when the Gengar is bluffing Gengarite, actually has a Colbur Berry, and all of a sudden Xerneas's teammate Mega Lucario or whatever just came in pretty much for free?)

That makes me wonder though, wouldn't Miradon be more overbearing when we get rid of Last Respects if they are both broken in tandem? If we remove one the other becomes more broken most likely. Point being I wouldn't be surprised with the high ban percentage if we are talking about banning Miradon again in a few months via another suspect

 

[andrei6264]

252 SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Miraidon Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Fairy Pawmot: 437-515 (155.5 - 183.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Yeah and after clicking overheat with choice specs your damage reduces to 0 and you get swept. This is what I feel is what keeps Miraidon in check. His Draco and Overheat don't allow back to back powerful moves to hit dragon types/electric resists. If a Miraidon does that I instantly go into Calyrex or Koraidon(2 extremely common pokemon) for example and get at least like 2 kills back or at least snowball a lot of momentum. The past and present AG pokemon like Mega Rayquaza, Calyrex-Shadow(with tera), Pre nerf Zacian were way more oppressing and harder to stop because of they wouldn't lower their attacking stats while battling. Mega Rayquaza could dragon dance and click without a care, Calyrex shadow should have been banned since gen 8 imo, but tera made him way over the edge and Zacian's colossal attack stat and speed made him pretty much impossible to stop unless you brought a hard counter. Basically what I'm trying to say is that Miraidon has workarounds.

 

[FrostedC]

That makes me wonder though, wouldn't Miradon be more overbearing when we get rid of Last Respects if they are both broken in tandem? If we remove one the other becomes more broken most likely. Point being I wouldn't be surprised with the high ban percentage if we are talking about banning Miradon again in a few months via another suspect

This logic is flawed at best.

If we remove Last Respects we don't have to throw Tera Normal on a random mon or some other check, leaving more room available to check Miraidon. If Miraidon is constraining on the teambuilder, then surely an extra half a slot to check it eases that constraint at least to an extent.

OK sure Basculegion can check miraidon under certain circumstances, but it's not anyone's go-to check to miraidon. It's more of a cheesy attempt to reverse 6-0 under the correct conditions - kinda comparable to baton pass (you set up the conditions and attempt to autowin). If it gets banned, teams will not suddenly crumble to miraidon because Basc isn't there to check it.

In gen 8, Zacian-C and Zacian were banned because they overwhelmed their checks. Without Caly-S, perhaps they would have been more balanced, because the mandatory Yveltal slot could have been used as a backup check to them. Without the Zacians, Caly-S is balanced because of the lack of threat saturation.

 

[Aberforth]

let them cook

ABER FC DON'T DO IT.

Denied.

I'm locking this thread and then cleaning it up, this last page in particular has been dreadful. When posting, please remember that this is not a chatroom on PS, and posts are meant to have more substance behind them than one liners. Me and Fc are pretty lenient with it normally, but this thread is not in a good state right now.