Open Setup RTM

zorbees

Chwa for no reason!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I've been thinking about hosting an open-setup RTM on Pokemon Showdown to further integrate the two communities. I mainly want input on game balance because I'm not the greatest at that. Additionally, I might want a co-host to help run the game just to smooth things out, since speed in updating is very useful in an RTM.

The concept of the setup is that the town starts with a massive numbers advantage, but many of them are vanilla. The village has to handle the mafia while also dealing with having their members recruited into the cults. The mafia wants the village in chaos so they can stay hidden, but they also want to manage to lessen the influence of the cults. The cults want to encourage the mafia and village to focus on each other while building up their numbers. Note that the cults can also recruit villagers who have already been recruited.

Rules:
Outside Contact is allowed. If you want to make a group chat, ask the host for assistance.
Game starts on Night 1 with kills active.
All Roles in the game are public knowledge.

Roles:

Town:
  1. Cop: Target a user, determines if the target started the game on the town or not.
  2. Investigator: Target a user, determines if the target is in a cult or not.
  3. Follower: Target a user, determines if the target used any action that night.
  4. Doctor: Target a user, protects them from any kills at night.
  5. Vigilante: Target a user, that user dies, one-shot.
  6. Roleblocker: Target a user, that user’s actions are blocked that night. You may not target the same player two nights in a row.
  7. Priest: Target a user, any cult recruitments on the target will fail.
  8. Mayor: Your vote counts as 2 votes in the lynch.
  9. Bulletproof Townie: The first night you are targeted for a kill, you will survive.
  10. Lynchproof Townie: The first time you are lynched, you will survive.
  11. Friendly Townie: Target a user, this has no effect.
  12. Friendly Townie: Target a user, this has no effect.
  13. Friendly Townie: Target a user, this has no effect.
  14. Vanilla Townie: You have no special powers.
  15. Vanilla Townie: You have no special powers.
  16. Vanilla Townie: You have no special powers.
  17. Vanilla Townie: You have no special powers.
  18. Vanilla Townie: You have no special powers.

Mafia (The mafia collectively pick one user to perform a kill each night. They can kill two players on nights 1, 4, 7, etc):
  1. Mafia Inspector: Target a user, determines the target’s original role and current alignment.
  2. Mafia Roleblocker: Target a user, that user’s actions are blocked that night. You cannot target the same player two nights in a row.
  3. Mafia Janitor: Until the Mafia has lost a member, the players killed by the Mafia at night do not have their roles revealed publicly, but only to the Mafia.
  4. Mafia Falsifier: One-shot ability, all town information roles will get incorrect results.
  5. Mafia Godfather: The Cop always gets you as starting on Town. The Investigator always get you as not on a cult. The Follower always get you as not having performed an action.

Red Cult:
  1. Red Cult Leader: On odd nights, target a user, recruit them to your team. You may only recruit players who started the game on the town. Additionally, at any time, you can choose one of your recruits as your second in command. Should you die, your second in command will receive a one-shot kill.

Blue Cult:
  1. Blue Cult Leader: On odd nights, target a user, recruit them to your team. You may only recruit players who started the game on the town. Additionally, at any time, you can choose one of your recruits as your second in command. Should you die, your second in command will receive a one-shot kill.

Action Priority:

Mafia Roleblocker
Town Roleblocker
Doctor
Mafia Kill
Red one-shot kill
Blue one-shot kill
Vigilante
Mafia Inspector
Mafia Falsifier
Cop
Investigator
Priest
Red Cult Leader
Blue Cult Leader
Friendly Townies
Follower

Updates:
-Mafia gets an extra kill on nights 1, 4, 7, etc.
-Janitored roles are revealed to the mafia
-Godfather role revamped
-Roleblockers cannot double target
 
Last edited:

UncleSam

Leading this village
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Quick notes:
- Might want to make the cult leaders have alternating priorities; Red Cult leader is obviously just strictly better than Blue and this is an easy 'fix' for that
- Do the friendly townies HAVE to target someone each night?
- The town seems a bit large, even for an average of one recruit per cycle (or slightly more since you start on a double-recruiting cycle); I'm a bit concerned that one mafia kill on a cult leader could instantly be gg for the non-town. Maybe consider making the cult leaders immune to death until D4 or something?
- Shouldn't the Godfather role be a mole, rather than a mayor? Just a flavor thing, I'd name it something else if you wanna stick with Mayor + Lynchproof
- Are previously-janitor'd roles revealed when the janitor dies, or are they always left in the dark?
- Might want to include no double-targeting of the role blocker
- Are recruited cult members told who their teammates are? If so, that could be a problem with double-recruits
- I presume village friendlies go last in priority and so can be roleblocked?
- I'm wondering if adding a Watcher or other roles which interact with targeting (maybe a ninja?) might fit more with the theme, since there's a lot of targeting-based stuff but very little interaction between it
- How does the falsier work with the Follower? I know it gives 'incorrect' results, but how so?

Specifically balance-wise, I think the cults are obviously weaker than either faction, but that's how these games tend to go. The mafia seems *ok* but I'm a little concerned that the village will be able to just clean a bunch of people by claiming to one person due to outside contact; ie if someone steps up and says 'I'm the follower' and no counterclaims, then there's only going to be one person claiming most of the village roles. Half the town can get cleaned in that way, though not from recruitment obviously. Either way, I'm concerned that there are easily-identifiable mechanisms by which the mafia can be pretty much instantly outed into 50/50s, and while they can obscure stuff via the falsifier and janitor they can't do much about the giant numbers advantage. The village could afford to just lynch+vig any 50/50 in order to hit a guaranteed mafia early on, and can probably afford to lynch several 50/50s after that and then just roleblock the rest/check them with their info roles.

tl;dr I'm a bit concerned the town is OP, though I can certainly see how there is counterplay and assuming good town play and mediocre mafia play will generally lead to the conclusion that the village is OP anyhow.
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
First thought is why isn't Blue Cult recruiting on even nights? Or do you not want Blue to always be "1 night behind" compared to Red? It would give Priest more to do in his off nights and also fix Sam's point that Red is always superior to Blue atm.

I'll edit this with some other thoughts later once I review it more.
 

zorbees

Chwa for no reason!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
i made a few changes after talking to sam on irc, check the updates at the bottom of the OP

i'm thinking about changing the BPV and LPV to friendly townies or something like that, i think that less village power roles is better

in terms of the cults, yeah, i originally had them be on odd/even but thought that blue would always be behind. i think sam's idea of alternating priority is a decent one for this. note that the lower priority recruit is better in the case of double targeting, and that double-targeting is the only instance where cult priority matters.
 
>showdown
>25p game

i have seen those kinds of numbers... twice

but anyway to something more relevant i have translated the role list into terms ps! people will understand! and you can easily submit this as a list to an RO(probably rssp1) to get it approved and HYPED for so you can get the third 25p game in the past year(well, technically second because snaq suk'd and wouldn't let me host with above 20 that one time :(((((((( )

well actually they might not understand it but if they don't it's their own fault(except for like the cop)

also fuck cult

als

Bloodhound(based on original faction)
Private Investigator
Motion Detector(actions performed by target only)
Doctor
One-Shot Vigilante
Roleblocker(can't target the same player twice in a row)
Deprogrammer
Mayor
One-Shot Bulletproof Townie
One-Shot Lynchproof Townie
Compulsive Visitor
Compulsive Visitor
Compulsive Visitor
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Mafia Role Cop + Faction Cop
Mafia Roleblocker(can't target the same player twice in a row)
Mafia Compulsive Janitor(NK only)
Mafia One-Shot Psychotrooper
Mafia Godfather Ninja
Red Cult Odd-Night Recruiter
Blue Cult Odd-Night Recruiter

i agree with the "two cults exactly the same in this particular way = stupid" even beyond just screw cults in the first place, but seriously screw cults they're stupid
 

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