Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Welcome to the latest edition of the Team Rater Competition! The tier this time around will be SM OU. For each round we'll post a team, and participants will have one week to complete a rate of said team. When the round is over, the participants who submitted the best rates will move onto the next round. If you are eliminated and want to receive feedback on your rate, the hosts will be more than happy to provide that upon request. Each round will last one week. Failure to rate the team within the one week time period will result in disqualification unless you're able to give us a valid reason. Please only sign up if you can commit to rating one team every week for the next month. If you're currently involved in or are looking to start rating OU teams, I highly encourage you to participate as this promises to be a great learning experience. Here's to a fun and competitive tournament!
Important notes:
The winner will be accepted as a member in our Rating League!
Shoutouts in the room intro of the RMT room and in RMT news
Your name on a trophy-banner
The rates in the final two rounds will count towards the Team Rater
The winner will be awarded voice status in the RMT room on PS if they have shown an interest in getting involved.
Each round will last one week. Failure to rate the team within the one week time period will result in disqualification unless you're able to give us a valid reason. Please only sign up if you can commit to rating one team every week for the next month.
If you are eliminated and would like some feedback on your rate and how you can improve going forward, feel free to ask us.
Participants please PM your rate to Team Pokepals, mil and Enki. You have until 23:59 EST on Friday, 30th March to submit your rate. Also, if you were not tagged in the last round and didn't submit a rate and would still like to submit a rate, please send it as soon as possible and at the least we can provide you with feedback. Good luck!
Just like in the last competition, we will post the best rate of the round, and a round summary with a quick overview of the stuff we liked in your rates. Have fun and good luck to all!
Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
I wanted to build around Mega Metagross as it's a one of the strongest threats in the tier. Ice Punch is to hit Lando-T, which commonly switches into Mega Metagross, and Earthquake is to hit opposing Metagross and Magnezone that try trapping me.
Magnezone @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Flash Cannon
I decided to run Magnezone with Metagross because Ferrothorn and Skarmory can switch in on Metagross and get hazards up, so Magnezone's here to trap and remove them. An Assault Vest set was chosen to allow Magnezone to take special attacks better from mons like Tapu Koko. Magnezone also handles Mega Scizor, which counters Mega Metagross.
Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 240 HP / 232 Def / 20 SpD / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]
2 steel types meant my team was weak to Ground types, including Dugtrio, which can trap both Metagross and Magnezone and KO them. Lando-T is an excellent mon as it provides a ground immunity, stealth rock, momentum via U-turn, and physical bulk to handle attackers such as opposing Lando-T and Zard-X. HP Ice is run to deal significant damage against opposing Lando-T.
The team was really weak to Ash Greninja and Pheromosa, so I decided to go with Tapu Fini in the 4th slot. Tapu Fini also provides hazard removal for the team with Defog, and Metagross can also benefit from having Misty Terrain up to prevent being burned/paralyzed.
At this point, Volcarona, Salamence and opposing Metagross looked annoying, so I added Scarf Garchomp to help revenge kill them all. Garchomp also works with Magnezone as Magnezone can remove Skarmory, Ferrothorn and Scizor, and also deal major damage to Clefable on stall teams.
Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- U-turn
I still felt weak to Mega Metagross, and I also so I decided to add Ash Greninja in the final slot. Greninja also helps provide momentum and weaken some defensive mons like Ferrothorn and Tapu Fini. Water Shuriken also helps against Volcarona, Excadrill and Zard X if they set up and Garchomp gets cripped or already died.
Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
Magnezone @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Flash Cannon
Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 240 HP / 232 Def / 20 SpD / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Congrats on AnishSomani, Gross Sweep and Mr. Perry for making it into Top 3 of Round 1 of our Team Rater Competition! (order has no meaning)
AnishSomani made very solid rate this round. In the first part of his rate he mentions how the team struggles with certain team archetypes, and then proceeds to mention single threats. He changes Fini for Landorus and to add hazard control and deal with a large number of threats in SM OU.
Scarf Garchomp over Scizor works very well in combination with banded Tyranitar, and fits well into the team as an Electric immunity. SpD Jirachi over Magearna is a valid swap, checks similar mons while its U-turn can't be punished as much as Volt Switch. In the end he mentions the downsides of his change, e.g. making the team weaker to Grounds, but talks about how to play around them.
hello,
nice team you have there, and i really like zard y in this metagame right now. anyway, the team does have some notable flaws, with the lack of hazard control hurting zard y, and the team does struggle to break a lot of common stall builds. it also struggles with its reliance on av magearna to check ash greninja which is prone to getting worn down, and also struggles due to a lack of a fire resist aside from tyranitar meaning that zard y and heatran, as well as volcarona + duggy cores are all fairly annoying. i have a couple of suggestions, which will hopefully improve the team, while still maintaining the zard y + tyranitar core , which was central to the team.
tapu fini over defensive lando-t. tapu fini helps the team by helping annoy stall builds, as well as providing another way to deal with ash greninja and giving a pheromosa back up check , and still helping with zard x , with the help of tyranitar. most importantly, fini provides defog support, for charizard mega y. this does mean you miss out on stealth rocks, a pivot which can generate free switchins for zard y on the likes of celesteela, and a reliable answer to flynium salamence check, as a lot of the other things lando deal with are dealt with by rocky tangrowth(like metagross for example), which i will try to help with in my rate. mega venusaur also is more annoying, however, sand helps pressure it, by reducing its recovery.
scarf garchomp instead of scarf scizor. scarf garchomp helps with volcarona + dugtrio cores, which would otherwise be really hard for this team to cope with, as well as providing a reliable way to revenge kill salamence, which replacing lando-t has created as a weakness. it helps a lot with other threats like bloom doom heatran, charizard mega x and y, as well as flynium z gyarados. to be honest, i feel scarf scizor isnt really a optimal set, because of the fact that even with a scarf it is still fairly slow, in comparison to the scarfer speed creep in this generation, and this team doesnt require it acting as a lure. again, one of the largest losses of this change is a loss of a pivot to bring zard y in. additionally, this does make grasses like av tang more annoying, but those are heavily pressured by zard y
rocks jirachi over magearna. the main reason i would recommend jirachi is that it provides stealth rocks while still checking stuff like tapu lele. jirachi also provides healing wish support, since fini is prone to be worn down. for once, i add a pivot which still baits in pokemon like celesteela, mega scizor, lando t which charizard mega y can punish. adding rachi does mean that you lose out on offensive presence, however, you do have 2 powerful wallbreakers, which means that you can simply threaten to turn into those breakers. this also removes a dark resist, and is weak to ghost types. however, band tyranitar helps with ghost types like specs/scarf and ghostium gengar, as well as hoopa u, with a lot of them now forgoing focus blast for it. fini also helps as a dark resist over here. jirachi also does less to tapu koko and cant force it out as well, but jirachi + tang + ttar to pivot into hidden power help, especially with all non gleam koko means that you can pressure it,, and scarfchomp can revenge kill koko too, but it still remains a nuisance.
fire blast>flamethrower on charizard mega y, as it really appreciates the power for example it give it the chance of killing defensive lando before rocks, while guaranteeing it after rocks/a bit of chip like rachi u turns, as well as a 90% chance of 2hkoing uninvested zygarde (band and dd sets) after rocks , without having to predict and solar beam(while flame has a 0% chance for the 2hko), even if it is slightly more inaccurate.
downsides to my rate
ground types which can break past tangrowth like mamoswine and flynium z landorus t. however, you can play around flynium z lando, by waiting for it to use its z move, and the set is also pretty uncommon on dual dance sets, because of the fact that it is left with regular fly after using its z move, which is also a fact that this team can exploit, while you can outspeed rocks sets with pokemon like zard y as well. additionally, flynium z has been losing popularity, and even a lot of lando run rockium z on purely stealth rocks sets. mamoswine is probably even more irritating, because of the fact that it can immediately threaten out pokemon like garchomp, and you cant use the previous strategy of making it bust out its z move. the fini spread i suggest does live 2 hits before rocks, but you have to offensively pressure it with help from zard y or potentially weaken it through lo recoil as well. additionally, both of these , and especiallly mamoswine remained very threatening to the original version, and are tricky to defensively check (especially mamo).however , these still remain extremely threatening, especially if paired up with pokemon which force you to try to preserve pokemon like tangrowth and go into it, like dual dance/stealth rocks rockium z lando + mamoswine.
becomes more annoying,as I had mentioned , and your best bet against that is to try to pivot into it, and scare it out with scarfchomp if possible, and it really can't come in for free on anything, as it even takes 50% from fini nm, but it can force out fini + zard y if coming on doubles/after something has died/when you really need to defog , making it a nuisance.
additionally, my rate does remove a few pivots. however, i believe that you still have 2 pivots in rocky tang and jirachi, the latter of which does bring in pokemon which zard y can pressure, as well as stuff like fires which ttar and garchomp can pressure. additionally fini can also somewhat pivot, but i believe this team still functions as a team which pivots into breakers.
note:slightly editted after changed my mind, and added koko to threatlist
Tangrowth @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 212 Def / 48 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Hidden Power [Ice]
We also liked Gross Sweep's rate, he changed Fini for Tangrowth, and then provides changes the spread on Tyranitar to take on Tapu Koko better. Yache Berry on Lando helps with threatening Electrics witch Ice coverage. As a last change, he goes for QD Phero over Scizor (and actually notices that Scarf Scizor does not outspeed Greninja...), which is obviously the better sweeper and revenger.
Hey Enki I really like the team. Making a Tyranitar work in the current meta is really cool, props to you on that. However, when I look at the team I realize you have a major weakness to Stealth Rock, fast threats like Greninja, Tapu Koko, and Pheromosa, as well as, Volcarona.
When you use a team with a Charizard on it some form of hazard removal becomes almost mandatory, so my first suggestion would be to change Tangrowth into a Tapu Fini. This change will give the team a solid defogger helping boost Charizard's longevity. It also gives the team a solid switch in vs Ash Ninja which the team really needs right now. I'd recommend running a standard spread of 248 Hp / 172 Def / 16 SpDef / 72 Spe with a Calm nature. The speed allows you to out pace defensive Lando-T, so you can Taunt/Defog against it. The SpDef when combined with a Calm nature allows Fini to hit a jump point roll wise helping its longevity. The rest is dumped into Hp and Def to maximize physical bulk, which helps it check non Poison Jab varients of Pheromosa so you don't have to rely to much on Charizard to do so. I suggest the move set: Moonblast / Taunt / Nature's Madness / Defog. This set allows Fini to reliably remove hazards and pressure common setters with Taunt and Nature's Madness to better keep hazards off the field.
Next I realize Tapu Koko was already a bit of an issue, and then we replaced Tang. This loss can be supplemented by running a slightly bulkier EV spread on Tyranitar. A spread of: 44 Hp / 252 Att / 212 Spe with an Adamant nature allows for Tyranitar to avoid the 2hko from Magnet Tapu Koko's Tbolt. This spread also helps deal with Volcarona since it now has a much better chance to live +1 Bug Buzz (it also shrugs off the more common Giga Drain), and with an Adamant nature Tyranitar can now ohko offensive Volcarona with Crunch instead of having to rely on Stone Edge. The spread also still allows Ttar to out speed slow Rotom-w and Most Venu like you originally wanted.
I also would suggest a small change on Lando-T being Yache Berry>Leftovers for an item. Yache Lando-T and a bulkier Ttar pretty much fill the void of "electric check" created by removing Tangrowth. In the past Lando-T had to switch out vs Koko since HP Ice would ruin its day, but now a Tapu Koko with its eyes set on revenge killing will come in, activate the berry, and get revenged in return "lured if you will". Yache Berry will also help the team better deal with M-Metagross since Lando-T can now stay in and attack not fearing the Ice Punch as greatly.
Finally I suggest Pheromosa>Scizor. You mentioned using scarf Scizor to revenge/surprise Greninja, but I'd recheck your math. Jolly max speed Scizor hits 251 speed, and when Scizor is equipped with the Choice Scarf its speed is multiplied by 1.5 (251 x 1.5 = 376.5, which is rounded down to 376 speed) meaning Scizor actually falls 1 point short of out speeding Greninja who tops out at 377. So a change to Pheromosa actually gives the team a way to out speed and revenge things like Greninja and Tapu Koko. I also liked where you were going with a revenge killer / win con so I'm suggesting you try out the Quiver Dance set. The moves being: Quiver Dance / Bug Buzz / Ice Beam / Focus Blast, and Ev's: 224 Spa / 32 SpDef / 252 speed with a Modest Nature. This set along with the item Fightinium Z allows Pheromosa to serve as a great win con / revenge killer. It still out speeds a large proportion of the meta game with a Modest nature (401 speed), it can revenge M-Meta from full with Z-Focus Blast, and it can take 1 turn of Water Shurikens from Ash Ninja after a Quiver Dance helping it avoid getting revenged killed by one of the most common Pokemon in the meta.
I hope that some of my suggestions could help! The team is looking really solid, and it should be ready to terrorize the ladder!
Also feel free to PM if you ever need any more help, want to discuss my changes, or want me to look at anything else.
Mr. Perry also submitted an impressive rate, changes include offensive Lando to pressure defensive teams more, while Excadrill over Scizor adds Spin support and speed control. Excadrill also benefits from Tyranitar's ability to weaken common defensive walls, that way the team can aim to sweep with Excadrill.
Hello there :]
It's an interesting team concept, with a defensive backbone of Tangrowth and Magearna being able to check a lot of the tier's top threats while Charizard and Tyranitar are used to break past balance cores. It's a very effective build since last gen, and I'm glad people still remember ORAS' gold times! However, the team is somewhat weak to stall as your only way of breaking past Chansey is with Tyranitar, which is easily trapped and defeated by Dugtrio with its sash is intact. Offense is also incredibly hard to break through, as Scizor isn't fast enough, doesn't do enough damage, and is just a lackluster Pokémon overall for OU environment. Another big fail is the lack of Hazard Removal, which is REALLY needed in this team, as Charizard is severely crippled by it every time it comes on the field.
Looking at the team, I noticed a glaring weakness to Pokémon such as Pheromosa (QD Pheromosa is a very dangerous threat when paired with Lele, for example), Tapu Koko, and others as well as the ones mentioned above. To fix those problems, while still keeping the team's archetype as close as the one you laid out, I'm suggesting two set changes + a Pokémon one, in hopes that they can help you achieve a better matchup against most of the tier.
The changes are:
Offensive Landorus-T has a much better time at trying to put Stealth Rocks on the field versus defensive teams, as Mega Sableye cannot risk being severely damaged, and Skarmory or Zapdos (their defoggers) are hit hard by a +2 Continental Crush from Landorus-T's stellar base 145 Attack, and if Rocks are in the field, Dugtrio cannot confortably trap Tyranitar anymore, thus opening spaces for Charizard. In theory, this should make you weaker to Excadrill, opposing Landorus-T and Mega Charizard X, right? That's why I'm suggesting a more utility version of an offensive Landorus-T, the set is:
Landorus-Therian @ Rockium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def / 16 SpD / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
I guess you must look at those EVs with some suspicion, and you're right to do so! Let me explain what they do, though: With the given EVs, you can tank an HP Ice from Tapu Koko after coming into Stealth Rock once, as well as tanking 2 Outrages and 2 Hyperspace furies from Choice Scarf Garchomp and Hoopa-U! The Speed EVs let you outspeed everything slower than Pokémon with base 70 Speed, maximum investment, and a Jolly nature [e.g., Tyranitar]. However, if you want the raw power and speed tier that its base 91 may grant you, a spread of 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe with either Adamant or Jolly is still very decent!
Even though Landorus-T cannot pivot as much as it wants to, you're still able to settle Stealth Rock versus nearly any team while still keeping some offensive pressure to help you break defensive teams, so I feel like it's the best fit.
Fire Blast > Flamethrower
: Flamethrower, while still potent on its own when boosted by sun, fails to dish the damage Fire Blast can pull through in the tier. This is very important when considering possible switches into Charizard, such as Nihilego, Zygarde, and Garchomp. Flamethrower, for example, has a chance to fail to break Zygarde's substitute while Fire Blast is guaranteed to do so. Nihilego may only switch into Fire Blast 2 times while being able to do so 3 times with Flamethrower. Fire Blast may also 2HKO bulky Garchomp with good rolls, and this is important because it will pressure their only setting up Stealth Rocks, for example.
>
:So, this should help with Pokémon such as the Tapus, emergency check Volcarona, Ash-Greninja locked into any move that isn't Water Shuriken, Scarf or QD Pheromosa (it outspeeds at +1, can sack Tyranitar and then remove it from the game if really needed. However, you should always try to keep Magearna and Mega Charizard Y healthy to check it), Volcarona [if it crits its way past Tyranitar], Fairy-types, +1 Mega Charizard X, and is just great at destroying teams in the late game. Choice Scarf Scizor is a mediocre Pokémon in the tier, and Excadrill not only provides a pseudo speed control for your team but hits harder and provides the crucial Rapid Spin that Mega Charizard so desperately needs.
The set I'm suggesting you go is:
Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
- Swords Dance / Rock Slide
Air Balloon is a very good [but niche] item in a tier where Scarf Garchomp and Landorus-T are still very common; you can get an important free turn to either use Swords Dance, spin away hazards, or just attack something to deal insane damage. It's important to note that Excadrill is an important addition to the team, as it checks Pinsir [a huge threat] by being faster and can either finish off a weakened one with Iron Head [if forgoing Rock Slide] or OHKOing it with Rock Slide [íf forgoing Swords Dance] and provides hazard removal for MCharizard Y. Even though weaknesses to common types such as Water, Fire, and Ground hold it back somewhat, Excadrill is still able to work its way through most of the teams and gets the needed support from Mega Charizard [which breaks bulky Grass- and Water-types], Tangrowth, Landorus-T, and Tyranitar which can threaten its remaining weaknesses. Toxic is also an option in the 4th slot, being able to put Tangrowth, Garchomp, Rotom-W, Landorus-T, etc on. a timer is very nice for Tyranitar and your own Landorus-T.
Those are my changes; I hope you liked it! I tried to change the least I could to keep the face you wanted for your team, so I'm confident you will like it :]
The updated team goes just below!
Tangrowth @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 212 Def / 48 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Magearna @ Assault Vest
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Aura Sphere
Landorus-Therian @ Rockium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def / 16 SpD / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Roost
- Focus Blast
Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Superpower
Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
- Swords Dance
I wish you the best of good luck! :]
Thank you all for submitting your rates for this round! We had a lot of fun going through all of your rates. Keep it up !
Just to clarify since I messed it up in the OP, but the rates are due on Friday March 31 at 11:59 PM, meaning those who have not submitted a rate still have 26 hours and 30 minutes left (from the time of this post) to submit your rate.
