PU Analyses Discussion Thread

[WhiteDMist]

OP stolen from Soulgazer who stole it from Spirit

Hi, this thread is meant to primarily discuss one of these two things: possible additions/updates to completed analysis, and making a case for a Pokemon that doesn't have an analysis but you believe it should receive one.

The first entails the following:

-Whether an analysis needs to be completely rehauled to fit the current metagame

-Whether a set needs to be added/updated

-Other small miscellaneous changes such as giving X move a slash on X Pokemon's set

The second should be self-explanatory, but if you believe that X Pokemon deserves an analysis, make sure nothing completely outclasses it and that it has a good enough niche. This is mainly for NFEs. All fully evolved Pokemon will receive an analysis, so be patient and don't request for these Pokemon as they will be available when the more relevant Pokemon are completed.

You can also post here if you are not sure on what sets to add in your skeletons. Another option is to lurk in #pu on mIRC/mibbit and ask us about it, but since not every QC members go on IRC, posting here will let everybody see it and give their opinion. Same with the PU Room on Pokemon Showdown!

Any questions questions not related to the analyses should be directed to myself or the rest of the PU Quality Control team.

 

[Magnemite]

first!

[12:54] <%anty> 4 Atk Life Orb Protean Frogadier Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Lickilicky: 203-242 (47.8 - 57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

thoughts on slashing this somewhere now that oras tutors are out?

 

[Anty]

Definitely agree with this, although I dont know where the best place for it to be slashed would be. Maybe behind HP Electric?

Hp electric only really hits water birds, swanna outspeeds you anyway and mantine isnt too common.

Other pokemon that gain relevant moves;
Barbaracle (stealth rock), Auroras (earth power, hyper voice), gourgeist (synthesis and foul play) and Kecleon (moves legal with protean, main ones are knock off, stealth rock and drain punch).

Actually, i think the only one of those with an analysis up is gourgeist

 

[boltsandbombers]

Hp electric only really hits water birds, swanna outspeeds you anyway and mantine isnt too common.

Other pokemon that gain relevant moves;
Barbaracle (stealth rock), Auroras (earth power, hyper voice), gourgeist (synthesis and foul play) and Kecleon (moves legal with protean, main ones are knock off, stealth rock and drain punch).

Actually, i think the only one of those with an analysis up is gourgeist

Then with that reasoning I think it would make sense to put it in front of HP Electric.
And yeah, Barbaracle is going to be really cool as it can utilize shell smash sets, choiced with switcheroo, and now SR sash lead.
Dont even get started on kecleon lmao, the combinations for the sets for that thing are endless.

 

[ExplosiveChaos]

Is a Toxic stall set good on Munchlax? haven't seen anyone really use Toxic on Munchlax, but it seems like a good idea since Munchlax is so bulky.

 

[Anty]

Is a Toxic stall set good on Munchlax? haven't seen anyone really use Toxic on Munchlax, but it seems like a good idea since Munchlax is so bulky.

The set commonly used last gen is this:
Munchlax @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Body Slam
- Whirlwind

It provides lax with recovery, body slam breaks subs and spreads paralysis and whirlwind prevents it from being set up fodder.

I would think toxic belongs in other options, as the main set does not have moveslot for it

 

[ExplosiveChaos]

Thank you Anty

 

[ou hyper]

Farfetched is useless in pu it's way better in 350 cup other than that it isnt fit for its tier with no major set

 

[Darnell]

Farfetched is useless in pu it's way better in 350 cup other than that it isnt fit for its tier with no major set

Sorry bud but I don't understand this post? No one brought up Farfetch'd and its E rank in the viability ranking thread therefore stating its bad already.

 

[ou hyper]

is magmar viable in pu
pls replie

 

[WhiteDMist]

is magmar viable in pu
pls replie

This is unrelated to analyses, so it is the wrong place to ask. Ask in the main thread next time.

Magmar is not that good in PU, it's main niches are as a Grass-type counter and a bulky attacker, but it's mediocre at both roles.

 

[ou hyper]

This the initial set I run for magmar in pu
Magmar eviolite sash or life orb evs. 252 spa/spe
Flamethrower/fire blast
Hidden power grass
Will-o-wisp/psychic
Barrier/ will-o-wisp
Set details
This set utitlizes magmar's sp.atk stat with fire
blast you can oko defogers like articuno. Hp grass also covers threats like weaknesses like barbaracle and weakness policy golem. Also will-o-wisp ensures that physical attackers
don't take advantage of
magmars lack in defense. Sash
is to ensure that magmar can
take out it's initial threats.
Eviolite is for a more bulky
offence with support from
screens and hazards. Life orb
is for revenge killing after the support off sticky webs or tailwind. barrier is a if your running will-o-wisp for an extra defensive boost.
suggest team mates
Teamates that resist water,ground,rock have synergy with magmar.
also screeners like meowstic a helpful to magmar too. i think this set will be used for magmar's main set in the future

 

[WhiteDMist]

This the initial set I run for magmar in pu
Magmar eviolite sash or life orb evs. 252 spa/spe
Flamethrower/fire blast
Hidden power grass
Will-o-wisp/psychic
Barrier/ will-o-wisp
Set details
This set utitlizes magmar's sp.atk stat with fire
blast you can oko defogers like articuno. Hp grass also covers threats like weaknesses like barbaracle and weakness policy golem. Also will-o-wisp ensures that physical attackers
don't take advantage of
magmars lack in defense. Sash
is to ensure that magmar can
take out it's initial threats.
Eviolite is for a more bulky
offence with support from
screens and hazards. Life orb
is for revenge killing after the support off sticky webs or tailwind. barrier is a if your running will-o-wisp for an extra defensive boost.
suggest team mates
Teamates that resist water,ground,rock have synergy with magmar.
also screeners like meowstic a helpful to magmar too. i think this set will be used for magmar's main set in the future

Hi, this thread is meant to primarily discuss one of these two things: possible additions/updates to completed analysis, and making a case for a Pokemon that doesn't have an analysis but you believe it should receive one.

I'm serious, I will start deleting posts that are off topic. I gave you the location where to post stuff like this, which is the main thread. If you are requesting Magmar receive an analysis, then post about THAT here. But this is about the best use of Magmar (in your opinion), which belongs in the general discussion thread, not a thread about PU analyses. After this, I will delete any posts that clutter this thread with off-topic content.

 

[Magnemite]

I posted this the QC pm but it kinda got drowned out by other stuff:

the bouffalant spread could be changed to 132 HP / 124 Spe to outspeed poliwrath, thoughts? even if it doesn't become the main spread, outspeeding the best pokemon in the tier without sacrificing too much bulk is at least worth a set details mention.

 

[WhiteDMist]

I posted this the QC pm but it kinda got drowned out by other stuff:

the bouffalant spread could be changed to 132 HP / 124 Spe to outspeed poliwrath, thoughts? even if it doesn't become the main spread, outspeeding the best pokemon in the tier without sacrificing too much bulk is at least worth a set details mention.

I don't mind, post in the bouff thread. The writer can still change it since he's only on the gp stage. Beating base 70s (Poli) is a decent tier to hit, and idk if the extra hp evs actually make a notable difference.

 

[Magnemite]

now that i'm reminded that this thread exists, i might as well say that i still think low kick should be slashed with hp electric on frogadier. hp electric beats pelipper and prevents mantine from setting up on you, while low kick beats lickilicky and prevents regice from setting up on you, so they're about equal imo.


edit: anty and i agreed on skype that the set should be:

hydro
ice beam
low kick / u-turn
hp electric / u-turn

with toxic spikes in moves, because without hp electric poliwrath can switch in easily.

 

[ou hyper]

i think set should be added to kadabra's analysis
PU BARRIER
move 1:barrier/reflect Item:life orb/sash
move 2 energy ball/calm mind/recover Ability:magic guard/synchronize
move 3:hidden power electric/hidden power fight Nature:timid/modest
move 4: psyshock/psychic EVs:252 spa 252 spe 4spd
Moves
barrier allows Kadabra to be a little more defensive.reflect allows it to give the team a boost.
energy ball is for okos on rock types like Barbaracle and weakened golem. calm mind is a secondary option if the team checks what energy ball checks. recover is for focus sash set and it helps it stay for more longevity. hidden power allows it to oko defogers like Pelipper and Mantine. hidden power fight is for the focus sash set and allows it to oko sneasel with ease and allows it to revenge kill pokemon cant take it out. It also run shadow ball in place of energy ball to hit other psychic types hard and gourgeist too.
set details
the timid nature is recommended out-speed most mons in the metagame. It's also associated with
magic guard and life orb. 252 in spa and spe gives it the power to sweep. you can also run eviolite
for more bulky set but it loses it's offensive ability to sweep effectively. heres some examples of it's sweeping power.
252 SpA Kadabra Hidden Power Fighting vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sneasel: 316-372 (125.8 - 148.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Kadabra Energy Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Barbaracle: 424-500 (148.2 - 174.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Poliwrath: 398-468 (103.6 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(398, 400, 406, 408, 413, 421, 424, 429, 432, 437, 445, 447, 452, 455, 460, 468)
usage tip
due to sub-par defenses, it best to use it as a revenge-killer or for late game sweeping.
It should never switch in on incoming attacks.
team options
teammates should have entry hazards like piloswine or golem so kadabra can have a easier time coming in revenge killing. for modest kadabra,it appreciates sticky web setters like krickitune.
also it appreciates pokemon that can remove pokemon that kadabra cant revenge killl.

 

[Anty]

i think set should be added to kadabra's analysis
PU BARRIER
move 1:barrier/reflect Item:life orb/sash
move 2 energy ball/calm mind/recover Ability:magic guard/synchronize
move 3:hidden power electric/hidden power fight Nature:timid/modest
move 4: psyshock/psychic EVs:252 spa 252 spe 4spd
Moves
barrier allows Kadabra to be a little more defensive.reflect allows it to give the team a boost.
energy ball is for okos on rock types like Barbaracle and weakened golem. calm mind is a secondary option if the team checks what energy ball checks. recover is for focus sash set and it helps it stay for more longevity. hidden power allows it to oko defogers like Pelipper and Mantine. hidden power fight is for the focus sash set and allows it to oko sneasel with ease and allows it to revenge kill pokemon cant take it out. It also run shadow ball in place of energy ball to hit other psychic types hard and gourgeist too.
set details
the timid nature is recommended out-speed most mons in the metagame. It's also associated with
magic guard and life orb. 252 in spa and spe gives it the power to sweep. you can also run eviolite
for more bulky set but it loses it's offensive ability to sweep effectively. heres some examples of it's sweeping power.
252 SpA Kadabra Hidden Power Fighting vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sneasel: 316-372 (125.8 - 148.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Kadabra Energy Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Barbaracle: 424-500 (148.2 - 174.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Kadabra Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Poliwrath: 398-468 (103.6 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(398, 400, 406, 408, 413, 421, 424, 429, 432, 437, 445, 447, 452, 455, 460, 468)
usage tip
due to sub-par defenses, it best to use it as a revenge-killer or for late game sweeping.
It should never switch in on incoming attacks.
team options
teammates should have entry hazards like piloswine or golem so kadabra can have a easier time coming in revenge killing. for modest kadabra,it appreciates sticky web setters like krickitune.
also it appreciates pokemon that can remove pokemon that kadabra cant revenge killl.

Sorry, but this set is just outclassed by the other one. It finds difficulty in setting up due to low bulk anyway (and it still gets hit hard anyway, and what is the point of running sash when you are trying to boost your defense?):
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Kadabra: 255-302 (114.8 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Golem Earthquake vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Kadabra: 208-246 (93.6 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

Focus sash also allows it to be a last ditch effort to stop an offensive sweeper, easily stopping a sweep, so it is used over life orb. Encore is also a better move, allowing it to force a switch, as well as play around things like Sucker Punch.

 

[g]

Ok i think that Mightyena set should be slightly changed to

Life Orb Cleaner
########
name: Life Orb Cleaner
move 1: Crunch
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Play Rough
move 4: Iron Tail / Thunder Fang
ability: Moxie
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant

Now that Iron Tail + Play Rough is legal i don't really see why wouldnt it be the better option for the last slot. In addition to beating Togetic (and clefairy) quite easily it help tremendously also against Pokemon such as Golem (2hkod at +0 without hazards) and Avalugg (decent chance to be 2HKOd with Stealth Rock, guaranteed if spikes are also up) who were awesome checks who couldnt be 2hkod to it before. I feel like Thunder Fang is also a decent option to hit Pelipper who is quite on the rise but not sure if it deserves to be slashed. If QC agrees (anty already does) ill proceed and make the scms edit.

I also edited out a couple of Garbodor mentions

 

[Ares]

Jukain I dislike LO Ninetales, but my point is that Pignite can still check it. Just doesn't do it as comfortably as I would prefer it to. But it does check it as well as the other Fire-types do.

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Ninetales Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Heatmor: 257-304 (82.6 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Ninetales Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flareon: 250-294 (92.2 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (Offensive Flareon, I realize defensive can check better)

I think the main reason to give it an analysis though, is its ridiculous amount of offensive coverage. Just quoting myself from my NU post cause I already have the info there.

Pignite @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rock Slide
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Pignite @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Grass Knot
- Sucker Punch
- Superpower

The first set is designed to have max survivability while being able to do good damage to Fire-types and cripple and physical types that try to switch in. The common problem with many fire type checks like Hariyama is that they don't have recovery, so Rest + Sleep Talk is to ensure recovery. The second set is more of an offensive approach similar to what Emboar does in RU, Flare Blitz for maximum damage or Fire Punch for a fire STAB and no recoil, Grass Knot is able to 2HKO standard Seismitoad with 0 investment, Sucker Punch for priority, and lastly Superpower for fighting STAB.

Offensive Movepool:
Fire Blast, Fire Punch, Flamethrower, Flare Blitz, Focus Blast, Focus Punch, Grass Knot, Head Smash, Low Kick, Poison Jab, Rock Slide, Stone Edge, Sucker Punch, Superpower, Wild Charge, Zen Headbutt

Support Movepool:
Endeavor, Protect, Rest, Roar, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Taunt, Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, Yawn

So with this vast extensive movepool Pignite is ready to make up a variety of sets, I just made some off the top of my head that I thought would be pretty good. Taunt especially looks delicious for wallbreaking :D

Obviously the first set doesn't work that great here, but the second set looks like it could put in some work. While the offensive and support movepool is great.

 

[Magnemite]

LO is the first slash for an item on Ninetales, regrardless of whether or not you "like" it. On paper Pignite doesn't really look that great, are there any relevant calcs / replays of people using it? I'm pretty reluctant to say Pignite is analysis worthy, especially without even seeing it once.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

fwiw it can check Sneasel but I'm doubtful on its viability as well. It can't check Ninetales and other defensive mons can check Fire-types better, and Thick Fat didn't really do much for it because it already resisted Fire and Ice anyway. unfixable Montsegur could you explain its niche a bit more? and if possible paste a team so the QC team can test it out?

 

[skies]

The set I've been running is an offensive set that takes on a Flareon-type nuking power, but with Fighting STAB, a strong priority, and ability to switch into many things. Here's the set:

Pignite @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sucker Punch

Fairly self-explanatory. I've been using it in a core of LO Swanna / SubSD Leafeon / LO Pignite, and they work well together because Pignite can break things down via Flare Blitz / Superpower without worry of hazards thanks to Swanna's Defog and it allows Leafeon to clean up a bit later in the match. I prefer Will-O-Wisp > Grass Knot / Wild Charge because it helps Pignite take on hits and it makes physical attackers wary of switching in. It's also useful as a wear down for bulkier teams, which Pignite works well against.

scorpdestroyer

 

[g]

So it is a weaker frailer and slower Flareon that doesn't even use Wild Charge to beat Pelipper.
To note that 252+ Atk Choice Band Flareon Superpower vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 225-265 (60.6 - 71.4%)
and 252+ Atk Life Orb Pignite Superpower vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 231-274 (62.2 - 73.8%)
So Fighting STAB doesn't even matter and that 252+ Atk Life Orb Pignite Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Scyther: 118-140 (41.9 - 49.8%) does pretty pathetic damage i am definitely going to reject it (and i can tell most of the QC team is of my opinion). When you consider that having a 4x Fire resistance is pointless when we have 2 Flash Fire users and that prominent Ice-types all break Pignite (Aurorus, SNEASEL LOL Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Pignite: 148-175 (38.6 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 round of Life Orb recoil) or are walled by other Fire-types regardless (lolglaceon) you can see how shitty Pignite is so just don't bother unfixable and do some cool Pokemon such as Throh n_n

 

[trc]

pignite is terrible rofl