Resource USM OU Speed Tiers

Status
Not open for further replies.
Surprised to not see Dragon Dance Zygardes potential sets here, and 252 Neutral +2 as well .O.

Here are one missing you might want to add in an easy to paste form C:

+2 Speed
578 / Zygarde / 95 / Neutral / 252 / +2
560 / Zygarde / 95 / +Spe / 116 / +2 (Sub DD Protect Analysis spread)
548 / Zygarde / 95 / Neutral / 192 / +2 (imsosorry aurora veil spread)
504 / Zygarde / 95 / Neutral / 104 / +2 (Analysis Double Dance spread)

+1 Speed
420 / Zygarde / 95 / +Spe / 116 / +1
411 / Zygarde / 95 / Neutral / 192 / +1
378 / Zygarde / 95 / Neutral / 104 / +1

Neutral
280 / Zygarde / 95 / +Spe / 116 / 0
274 / Zygarde / 95 / Neutral / 192 / 0
252 / Zygarde / 95 / Neutral / 104 / 0
 

GMars

It's ya boy GEEEEEEEEMARS
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
360 / Magnezone / 60 / +Spe / 252 / 0
Scarf Magnezone should have a +1 on the end instead of a 0
There are a couple mons on here that have been unranked from the vr if you wanna axe them here too:
Starmie, Breloom, Primarina, Empoleon, Omastar, Araquanid, Buzzwole, Conkeldurr, Kyurem, and Necrozma
 
Last edited:

Muscle K

Banned deucer.
199 / Azumarill / 50 / Neutral / 252 / 0
199 / Mawile (Mega) / 50 / Neutral / 252 / 0
Don't know why these are categorised differently. They both have the same Final Speed Stat, Base Speed, Nature and EV's.

486 / Celesteela / 61 / +Spe / 252 / +2
442 / Celesteela / 61 / Neutral / 252 / +2
243 / Celesteela, Tyranitar / 61 / +Spe / 252 / 0
201 / Celesteela / 61 / Neutral / 172 / 0
With the removal of Celesteela's offensive sets from the vr's, the speed tiers should mirror the changes and remove the speed tiers accordingly.


502 / Nihilego / 103 / +Spe / 252 / +1
Scarf Nihelgo died months ago. Don't know why it's still listed as a speed tier.

442 / Nidoking, Tapu Fini / 85 / +Spe / 252 / +1
Don't know why these are listed - not only did baton pass die months ago, but scarf sets were never viable on the two to begin with, meaning that these "calcs" were useless to begin with.

e - added final celesteela "calc"
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus

Don't know why these are categorised differently. They both have the same Final Speed Stat, Base Speed, Nature and EV's.


With the removal of Celesteela's offensive sets from the vr's, the speed tiers should mirror the changes and remove the speed tiers accordingly.



Scarf Nihelgo died months ago. Don't know why it's still listed as a speed tier.


Don't know why these are listed - not only did baton pass die months ago, but scarf sets were never viable on the two to begin with, meaning that these "calcs" were useless to begin with.

e - added final celesteela "calc"
Scarf Nihilego is the only Nihilego set that is still used lol.
 
Someone should really delete all mentions of Togekiss and Infernape ...

Some of these speed tiers shouldn't even be on the list like:

630 / Terrakion / 108 / Neutral / 252 / +2 -> Terrakion that's slower than unboosted Volcarona with Rock Polish on its set?

OR

620 / Charizard (Mega-X), Volcarona / +Spe / 184 / +2 -> 184 Spe isn't a thing on these 2?

OR

496 / Thundurus-Therian / 101 / +Spe / +1 -> do I need a +100 scarfer that Volcarona can use as set up fodder and gives me no Electric terrain?

Like, what are the criteria to be included on this list?
 

Finchinator

-OUTL
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending OU Circuit Championis a Two-Time Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
OU Leader
Someone should really delete all mentions of Togekiss and Infernape ...

Some of these speed tiers shouldn't even be on the list like:

630 / Terrakion / 108 / Neutral / 252 / +2 -> Terrakion that's slower than unboosted Volcarona with Rock Polish on its set?

OR

620 / Charizard (Mega-X), Volcarona / +Spe / 184 / +2 -> 184 Spe isn't a thing on these 2?

OR

496 / Thundurus-Therian / 101 / +Spe / +1 -> do I need a +100 scarfer that Volcarona can use as set up fodder and gives me no Electric terrain?

Like, what are the criteria to be included on this list?
Generally, it's nice to be inclusive on lists like these in order to cover everything possibly used for the sake of convenience for those using it when playing or building, but, at the same time, I do agree that this list is a bit over-inclusive. I will try to look into removing some of the things that are a bit too far out of left field and hopefully implement alongside the USM changes once it is released, thanks!
 
678 / Sharpedo (Mega) / 105 / +Spe / 252 / +2
638 / Diancie (Mega) / 110/ Neutral / 252 / +2
656 / Charizard (Mega-X), Salamence, Volcarona / 100 / +Spe / 252 / +2
630 / Terrakion / 108 / Neutral / 252 / +2

Mdiancie should be switched with MCX, mence, volc given that 638<656 :p
 

cdbk

Banned deucer.
516 / Blacephalon / 107 / +Spe / 252 / +1
344 / Blacephalon / 107 / +Spe / 252 / 0
The speed stat for Scarf and unboosted Blacephalon, respectively.

279 / Gliscor / 95 / +Spe / 112 / 0
This is basically the go-to Gliscor spread in the current meta. No reason not to list it.

266 / Gliscor / 95 / Neutral / 160 / 0
244 / Gliscor / 95 / Neutral / 72 / 0
I really don't see a reason as to why these are listed - 72 Speed Variant only outruns Bisharp and has some merit if running taunt to prevent Dragon Dance's from Dragonite - which still hasn't been running 192 speed this generation, nor has Mvenu. Speaking of which...


240 / Garchomp / 102 / Neutral / 0 / 0
244 / Dragonite, Venusaur (Mega) / 80 / Neutral / 192 / 0
Tankchop has never been a thing this generation, nor has 192 speed dnite / mvenu.

e tankchomp doesn't even run 0 Speed lol

618 / Landorus-Therian / +Spe / 91 / +2
There's no EV Value stated.

266 / Garchomp / 102 / Neutral / 104 / 0
266 / Jirachi, Manaphy, Mew / 100 / Neutral / 120 / 0
244 / Manaphy, Mew, Zapdos / 100 / Neutral / 32 / 0
222 / Scizor (Mega), Tapu Bulu / 75 / Neutral / 144 / 0
552 / Landorus-Therian / 91 / Neutral / 232 / +2
276 / Landorus-Therian / 91 / Neutral / 232 / 0
266 / Landorus-Therian / 91 / +Spe / 92 / 0
442 / Nidoking, Tapu Fini / 85 / +Spe / 252 / +1
201 / Celesteela / 61 / Neutral / 172 / 0
Looking back on the issue of over-inclusivity, we can see that there are just too many sets with random or niche spreads given in the list.

104 Speed Garchomp has never been a thing, and if it has, I doubt it made an impact on the OU tier that large, that it's forcefully been placed on the list.

e refer to tankchomp above

120 Speed and 32 Base 100 are either incredibly outdated or incorrectly implemented - Defensive Mew Runs 112 Speed, Manaphy has never dropped its speed stat below 299 and Specially Defensive Rachi has always been running a large amount of speed (ie 152) not 120 or 32.
The 32 Speed should be changed to 20 Speed to match Zapdos' defog analysis' spread.


192 and 116 Speed Zygarde have never been a thing - NJNP webs was 104 Speed.

The Lando sets, I can understand, but why Jolly 92 Speed or Adamant 232? Dual Dance always ran max speed neutral and never have I seen a 266 or 276 Lando in play. If this is a SPL, WCoP or Snake set, then I do apologise, as I really don't keep up with the EV spreads I just steal and go.

Echoing Muscle K's requests to remove +1 / 252+ Base 85's. Even during the BP Meta, those spreads were irrelevant. Offensive Celesteela is still not a thing. Sorry NJNP
 
Last edited:
120 Speed and 32 Base 100 are either incredibly outdated or incorrectly implemented - Defensive Mew Runs 112 Speed, Manaphy has never dropped its speed stat below 299 and Specially Defensive Rachi has always been running a large amount of speed (ie 152) not 120 or 32.
The 32 Speed should be changed to 20 Speed to match Zapdos' defog analysis' spread.


192 and 116 Speed Zygarde have never been a thing - NJNP webs was 104 Speed.

The Lando sets, I can understand, but why Jolly 92 Speed or Adamant 232? Dual Dance always ran max speed neutral and never have I seen a 266 or 276 Lando in play. If this is a SPL, WCoP or Snake set, then I do apologise, as I really don't keep up with the EV spreads I just steal and go.

Echoing Muscle K's requests to remove +1 / 252+ Base 85's. Even during the BP Meta, those spreads were irrelevant. Offensive Celesteela is still not a thing. Sorry NJNP
32 speed on rachi is to outpace Jolly Tyranitar, while Rachi can actually touch it while zapdos cant. I think this should stay. But the 120 speed is for Jolly M.Ttar. im not sure if this should stay or go tbh, perhaps go as 152 for Bulu seems better.

92 speed Jolly Lando allows it to outpace DD M.Ttar, and not get smacked by Ice Punch.

232 speed adamant Lando is for its Rock Polish Set, making sure it outpaces Jolly Sand Rush Driller, though I to think max spe should be used unless the extra evs change something significantly

192 Speed Zygarde was Imsosorrylol's Aurora Veil Double Dance spread, probably one of the most spammed teams of regular sun moon. while 116 speed jolly was used on the Sub DD Protect Analysis spread, tho I dont know what is was for, it was a thing but can probably be updated to the current spread:

271 / Zygarde / 95 / Neutral / 180 / 0
406 / Zygarde / 95 / Neutral / 180 / +1
542 / Zygarde / 95 / Neutral / 180 / +2

I do agree with the over cluttering tho, perhaps some of the less viable stuff should only stick to analysis spreads and a lot of the faster Neutral speeds seem rather usless, like, I rarely see Terrakion, and at that a Neutral one. I put a * next to ones im unsure on
630 / Terrakion / 108 / Neutral / 252 / +2
315 / Terrakion / 108 / Neutral / 252 / 0
393 / Bisharp, Volcanion / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +1 ( the only base 70 having +1 is Scarf Magneton and I think thats unranked )
305 / Nihilego / 103 / Neutral / 252 / 0
303 / Garchomp / 102 / Neutral / 252 / 0 *
301 / Thundurus-Therian / 101 / Neutral / 252 / 0 *
295 / Hydreigon / 98 / Neutral / 252 / 0 *
 
You should add the two new UBs I guess:

516 / Blacephalon / 107 / +Spe / 252 / +1
344 / Blacephalon / 107 / +Spe / 252 / 0

31 / Stakataka / 13 / Neutral / 0 / 0
27 / Stakataka / 13 / -Spe / 0 / 0
 

Leo

after hours
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
MPL Champion
620 / Hawlucha / 118 / Neutral / 152 / +2
Is there any reason for 152 EVs being here as opposed to the on-site 96 EVs?
 
620 / Hawlucha / 118 / Neutral / 152 / +2
Is there any reason for 152 EVs being here as opposed to the on-site 96 EVs?
I remember the old Smogon set had 152 EVs.
In exchange of some bulk, 152 EVs outspeed that over 96 EVs:

618 / Sharpedo (Mega) / Neutral / 105 / 252 / +2
618 / Landorus-Therian / 91 / +Spe / 252 / +2
604 / Excadrill / 88 / +Spe / 252 / +2
598 / Charizard (Mega-X), Salamence, Volcarona / 100 / Neutral / +2

So it's up to you. But yeah, both of them should be there.
 

GMars

It's ya boy GEEEEEEEEMARS
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I remember the old Smogon set had 152 EVs.
In exchange of some bulk, 152 EVs outspeed that over 96 EVs:

618 / Sharpedo (Mega) / Neutral / 105 / 252 / +2
618 / Landorus-Therian / 91 / +Spe / 252 / +2
604 / Excadrill / 88 / +Spe / 252 / +2
598 / Charizard (Mega-X), Salamence, Volcarona / 100 / Neutral / +2

So it's up to you. But yeah, both of them should be there.
620 / Hawlucha / 118 / Neutral / 152 / +2
Is there any reason for 152 EVs being here as opposed to the on-site 96 EVs?
Added the 96 EV hawlucha at 0 and +2 (296 and 592), fixed 310 hawlucha (added in EVs)
 
530 / Tyranitar (Mega) / 71 / +Spe / 252 / +2

If your going to list plus one Tyranitar( Mega), then you probably should list +2 as well, since every other mon with dragon dance has a +1 and +2 spread
 
Last edited:
538 / Qwilfish / 85 / Neutral / 252 / +2
269 / Qwilfish / 85 / Neutral / 252 / 0

120 / Araquanid / 42 / Neutral / 0 / 0

Some newly ranked stuff that is not listed yet

Edit: Amended a mistake on Araquanid's speed tier because I forgot to set the IV back to 31 from the default on showdown calc.
Also, compiling from the reply on the next page, this is for Brave HP Fire sets.
108 / Araquanid / 42 / -Spe / 0 / 0
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top