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Project SM OU Weekly Research [Round 3: Mega Charizard-Y & Hoopa-Unbound]

Discussion in 'SM OverUsed' started by Eclipse, May 31, 2017.

  1. volx757

    volx757

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Messages:
    219
    WR2 volx
    ttar
    Eclipse likes this.
  2. Riddikulusness

    Riddikulusness formerly RIDDIKULUS442

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Messages:
    62
    Alt: WR2 Riddik

    Mon: Mega TTar
    Eclipse likes this.
  3. Frat Dude

    Frat Dude

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    83
    Alt: WR2 Frat
    Mon: Mega Ttar
    Eclipse likes this.
  4. GMars

    GMars It's ya boy GEEEEEEEEMARS
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Messages:
    382
    WR alt: WR2 GMars
    Mon: Mega Manectric
    Eclipse likes this.
  5. FMG

    FMG

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2016
    Messages:
    146
    Alt: WR2 RamSlam

    Pokemon:
    Mega Manectric
    Team Pokepals and Eclipse like this.
  6. PsychoCut42

    PsychoCut42

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Gonna go ahead and drop out for this week because I've been haxed literally 9 games in a row now and am jus stressed the fuck out w school so yea
    Riddikulusness and GMars like this.
  7. Pantastic

    Pantastic

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2017
    Messages:
    35
    Alt: WR2 Mooncakes

    Pokemon: Mega Manetric
    GMars likes this.
  8. Riddikulusness

    Riddikulusness formerly RIDDIKULUS442

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Messages:
    62
    Since I'm really tired of ladder and I got tilted quickly, I'll just go ahead and start this weeks discussion phase! I apologize for the lack of replays, I forgot to save any from ladder, and I couldn't find any tour games with Mega TTar. Anyways, lets begin!

    [​IMG]
    Overall Thoughts and My Experience:
    Based on my experience laddering and my previous experience with Mega TTar this gen, I can say that I am incredibly pleased with it's performance! It is an incredibly unique Dragon Dance user, as it sacrifices good speed for fantastic bulk which can potentially grant it two DD's. Thanks to its incredible 100/150/120 bulk (it's sp. def goes up even more in the sand), it is incredibly hard to revenge kill at full. Here are some calcs to show off its bulk.
    Calcs to show it's Bulk (open)

    252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 230-272 (67.4 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 260-308 (76.2 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (this is before it transforms to ash mode)

    The only Scarfers that can reliably revenge kill Mega TTar from full are Keldeo and Terrakion. Despite Mega TTar's low speed, it can outspeed some of the faster Pokémon in OU after a Dragon Dance. Examples include Tapu Koko, Protean Greninja, Weavile, and Dugtrio with a Jolly Nature, and Gengar, Latios, and Garchomp with an Adamant Nature. After 2 DD's, it outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame. It gets plenty of set-up opportunity vs. Pokémon like Volcarona, Zapdos, Heatran, Choice Locked Gengar, Choice Locked Tapu Lele, non-Hydro Pump/Low Kick Protean Gren, Latios, and much more. Also, due to Tyranitar setting up sand, it can mess with Rain, which is a very popular playstyle at the moment, especially on the ladder. There were many games where I would DD up once or twice and just win the game. Overall, Mega TTar improved quite a bit from last gen, and it certainly finds it's place in the metagame for now.

    What Changed for it from Last gen?:
    As stated before, Mega TTar improved quite a bit from last gen. But you may ask, why? Well, some of Mega TTar's checks that were once common last gen, like Mega Lopunny, Slowbro (Mega-TTar commonly doesn't run crunch), Clefable, and Rotom-W, are all either much less common or unreleased in the current meta, meaning Mega TTar can be much more threatening with those mons absent. It also appreciates certain Pokémon in the meta being common, like Volcarona and Zapdos, which can both give Mega TTar set-up opportunity.

    The Set that I used:
    The only set that I really used was an offensive DD + 3 Attacks set. Here is a visual and description of the set:
    set (open)

    Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Stone Edge
    - Ice Punch
    - Fire Punch / Crunch / Earthquake

    Description (open)

    This is the Mega TTar set I used on my time on the ladder. Dragon Dance is the selling point of Mega TTar, as it is the bulkiest user of Dragon Dance available in the meta. Because it is so bulky, it can easily grab two boosts, making it's job of sweeping or breaking much easier. Stone Edge is a powerful STAB attack that hits extremely hard especially after a boost or two. Ice Punch, in my opinion, is mandatory on Mega TTar as it hits the extremely common ground-types in the meta, like Lando-t, Zygarde, and Zygarde. In the last slot, I prefer to run Fire Punch, as it hits Pokémon like Ferrothorn and Magearna, which can otherwise annoy Tyranitar quite a bit. Although, Crunch is an option as a secondary STAB move that can hit Pokémon like Slowbro and Mew much harder. Earthquake can be cool to OHKO Heatran with no boosts, hit Keldeo neutrally, and hit Magearna harder. Jolly nature is much better in my opinion than Adamant, as the drop in power is not that noticeable, and outspeeding threats like Dugtrio and Greninja after a DD is more important. Other sets I considered trying was a bulky DD + Rest + Sleep Talk set, but then I would have to sacrifice valuable coverage, which makes TTar easier to handle. Overall, this is the most consistent and best Mega TTar set in my opinion.


    Teambuilding with Mega TTar:
    Here is the final version of the team I used with a description of why I chose what I did:
    The Team (open)

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Stone Edge
    - Ice Punch
    - Fire Punch

    Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 29 Spe
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Knock Off
    - Earthquake

    Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 1 Atk
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Electric]

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 248 HP / 108 SpD / 152 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Iron Head
    - U-turn
    - Healing Wish

    Landorus-Therian @ Flyinium Z
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Fly
    - Swords Dance
    - Smack Down

    Gengar @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Cursed Body
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Shadow Ball
    - Sludge Wave
    - Focus Blast
    - Trick

    Description (open)

    When building with DD TTar, I considered it's main Pokémon that gives it trouble, which is Keldeo. Scarf Keldeo outspeeds TTar at +1 and OHKO's with Secret Sword. AV Tangrowth is perfect for TTar as it is a reliable answer to Keldeo, as well as covering problematic Pokémon like Zygarde and Ash-Greninja. Scarf Keldeo was added to be a solid revenge killer and an answer to Weavile and opposing TTar. It also checks Greninja along with Tang. I chose HP Electric > Stone Edge since Tyranitar covers Volcarona pretty easily. Sp. Def Rocks Jirachi is a super solid rocks setter and check to Lele. It also has Healing Wish that can potentially bring back TTar if it is weakened and give it a second chance at a sweep. The EVs allow it to outspeed standard lead Smeargle, and it gives you a chance to flinch it through its Sash so it can't get rocks/webs up vs. the team. SD + Flyinium Z Lando gives me a solid breaker that can break through Tangrowth, which can be annoying to the team. It also helps vs. standard stall with Smack Down + SD. Lastly, Specs Gengar is another wallbreaker that takes advantage of the lack of Ghost resists in OU (barring TTar of course). It also prevents Mega Medicham from just mindlessly spamming High Jump Kick. Overall, a pretty solid team that supports TTar well.

    Overall Good Teammates for Mega TTar (open)

    Some of these will be in my team above, and some won't be.
    [​IMG] Tangrowth takes care of problematic Pokémon like Greninja, Keldeo, and Zygarde.
    [​IMG] Jirachi gets up rocks, can provide U-Turn support, and can bring back a weakened TTar with Healing Wish to give it a second chance to sweep.
    [​IMG] Bulu also checks Ash Gren and Zygarde, but it also can easily soften things up for TTar to clean up later. It also has great defensive synergy and gets rid of its ground weakness with Grassy terrain.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] Both Greninja's can support TTar by providing spikes support. They can also run extrasensory to remove Keldeo for TTar (although ash has to sacrifice spikes for this).
    [​IMG] Ferrothorn also provides spikes support while also checking Ash Gren.
    [​IMG] Lando can provide rocks support as well as U-Turn support to get in TTar safely.
    [​IMG] Magnezone is a cool partner for non-Fire Punch variants, as non-Fire Punch TTar has trouble with Mega Scizor and Ferrothorn. Magnezone can easily trap these.
    [​IMG] Clefable is a neat partner as it can check Zygarde and Medicham. It also can get up rocks. Clef can also slow thing downs with twave, or bring back a weak TTar with Healing Wish.

    Miscellaneous Offensive and Defensive Calcs:
    A Wall of Mega TTar Calcs (open)

    252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 272-324 (79.7 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 284-336 (83.2 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 230-272 (67.4 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 260-308 (76.2 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (pre-ash)

    252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 98-116 (28.7 - 34%) -- 0.8% chance to 3HKO

    +1 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 260-306 (86.3 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

    -1 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 284-336 (89 - 105.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

    252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 332-392 (92.7 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

    252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 312-368 (81.6 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 SpA Magnet Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega: 123-145 (36 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    +1 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 333-393 (118.5 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 114-134 (33.4 - 39.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    +1 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tapu Fini: 256-303 (74.6 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery

    252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 112-134 (32.8 - 39.2%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO

    252 SpA Heatran Tectonic Rage (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 218-258 (63.9 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    +1 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 277-327 (85.7 - 101.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

    0 SpA Zapdos Discharge vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 60-72 (17.5 - 21.1%) -- possible 5HKO

    252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Zapdos: 440-522 (114.8 - 136.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 266-314 (78 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    56 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 210-248 (61.5 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    0 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 102-120 (29.9 - 35.1%) -- 10.3% chance to 3HKO

    +1 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tangrowth: 240-284 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

    0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 62-74 (18.1 - 21.7%) -- possible 5HKO

    +1 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 162-192 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Black Sludge recovery

    +1 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Magearna: 344-406 (94.5 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

    252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 230-272 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



    Final Thoughts/Where Mega Tyranitar fits in the Meta:
    Mega Tyranitar is a good Pokémon in the SM OU Meta. It can take advantage of a lot of the current meta trends like Volcarona, and turn them into set up fodder. It's incredible bulk makes it possible to get a second boost to make up for it's lackluster speed. In addition, Mega TTar is very difficult Pokémon to revenge kill at full health, as its bulk allows it to live CB Zygarde's Thousand Arrows and Scarf Garchomp's EQ. With all of that said, TTar does have it's answers, like Magearna, Keldeo, and Ash-Greninja. If I had to put it somewhere on the Viability Rankings, I would put it in B+ (where it currently resides), or even in A-. I would personally highly recommend trying out Mega Tyranitar, as it is a lot better than you might think. Overall, Mega Tyranitar is a scary bulky late-game cleaner that is very solid in the current metagame.
    Ktütverde, CZ., PsychoCut42 and 6 others like this.
  9. volx757

    volx757

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Messages:
    219
    Mm I also tilted before breaking into high ladder, but since the week is almost over I don't think I'll have time to try to climb up.

    Strategy Used
    Possibly out of laziness, I decided to try a fairly offensive build around ttar, essential a hazard stack with a couple of strong breakers and multiple wincons. The idea being that MTar has the bulk to set up a DD on most of the meta, so I would wear down the opposing team as much and as quickly as possible to make way for a +1 sweep. While I didn't find it too difficult to set up twice, I did find that residual and chip damage would add up to leave ttar vulnerable to priority and/or mons that can live a +1 hit, cutting his sweep short.

    The team doesn't look like hyper offense, but that's how I played it.

    Sets
    There really is only one TTar set, the one used above. It's a self-explanatory sweeper set. The choice of coverage is very important. At first I thought crunch was essential, but found that I wanted one of ice punch or fire punch all too often, and could smack everything else with stone miss 80% of the time anyway, so I ended up running both fire punch and ice punch.

    ttar set (open)

    Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Stone Edge
    - Ice Punch
    - Fire Punch

    And the team:

    team (open)

    Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Rough Skin
    EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 76 SpD / 16 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Tail
    - Stealth Rock

    Greninja @ Life Orb
    Ability: Protean
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Spikes
    - Ice Beam
    - Gunk Shot
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Keldeo @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Secret Sword
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Electric]

    Gengar @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Cursed Body
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - Taunt
    - Destiny Bond
    - Counter

    Gyarados @ Flyinium Z
    Ability: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Bounce
    - Waterfall
    - Earthquake

    Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Stone Edge
    - Fire Punch
    - Ice Punch


    description (open)

    This team switches as little as possible. Each mon is meant to get in and do it's job and then die, much like a true HO squad. The team is pasted in roughly chronological order. The dedicated lead is ninja, with garchomp sitting 2nd string for if the other team has a koko. Tankchomp gets up rocks pretty reliably. Greninja gets up spikes easily, and ib/gunk/hp fire OHKOs everyone else in the hazards game bar SpDef exca.

    Once hazards are up, they have to stay up. So this hilarious gengar set steps up to taunt stuff, get surprise OHKOs with counter, and then hopefully die and bring something down with it.

    At this point, you should have a few layers of hazards up, and you can pick a sweeper (gyara or ttar). If it dies, go to the other sweeper.

    Specs keld is just a hole-puncher with decent defensive synergy with this team (except that grass weakness wooot that's what ssss moxiedos is for lol).


    Strengths/Weaknesses
    The most obvious strength MTar has is it's bulk and pseudo-assault vest via sandstorm. It's very difficult to KO from full, and at least 1 DD is almost always assured. It has fine coverage for sweeping, rock being an amazing offensive typing, combined with the elemental punches. It has good power, but struggles to sweep with just one boost, and thus, like any sweeper, appreciates hazards to turn it's 2HKOs into OHKOs.
    Stone crit. It'll crit and win you games you shouldn't have won. nice.

    In terms of weaknesses, it's prone to being worn down, and must be conserved til the time to sweep is right, which means you don't get that great ttar defensive utility throughout the match. It can still freely switch into latios and some other type advantages or weaker attackers, but you really don't wanna attempt a sweep with like 40% chunked out of you.
    Stone miss. It will miss when you really, really need it to hit. o well.

    The Meta
    The current meta isn't nearly as fighting type-centric as ORAS, where Mtar was essentially un-viable. This gen, fire and psychic are actually good types, and MTar can take advantage of many of these typed mons. It can take advantage of choice-locked lele and ash-ninja, it can set up on protean ninja w/out low kick, it can set up on volcarona. Ttar's place in this meta feels very much temporary. Things are settled in a place where, it's not even like MTar has a great matchup against top-tier mons, it just happens to be able to tank any one hit and setup. When certain megas get released, I believe MTar will drop to BL. For now, B+ feels right for it. While it is a good sweeper, it doesn't feel consistent enough to me to warrant A-. It's IMO certainly not better than SSSS gyarados, also in B+.

    Laddering up you think to yourself, 'I'll wait to get replays when I'm high ladder.' Then you tilt and didn't save any good replays, so you scramble to have a couple games in which TTar is the wincon.

    replays (open)

    Here, I set up rocks and a layer of spikes before sweeping 6 mons with MTar. Just eats that latios surf like nothing.
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-593457532

    VS Trick room. Great display of TTar's bulk. Eats 2 attacks, then an aqua jet from azu, then a sucker punch from mmaw. Sweeps:
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-593459671


    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017 at 10:06 AM
  10. Hot dog pizza

    Hot dog pizza

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2015
    Messages:
    203
    Yeah, I'm sorry to point it out, but those replays don't show anything. The first opponent just fed ttar their whole team before deciding to put in their intimidate mon last. Second one stayed in on ttar with non-toxic P2, goes to Slowbro first against ttar and inexplicably sacs their technician breiloom (which didn't run mach punch?).

    Not arguing for or against any of your observations, but get replays against better teams and opponents if you want to use them as evidence.
  11. volx757

    volx757

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Messages:
    219
    yea I mean I said they weren't high level replays literally right above the hide tag..

    And the second replay does show ttar's bulk. It doesn't matter that my opponent was bad, it shows ttar eating 4 relatively powerful hits. Maybe you missed it.
    coming off kinda strong in your unnecessary rebuttle of my self-admitted mediocre write up on my time using ttar..
    OrangeGuru likes this.
  12. Jase Duken

    Jase Duken

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    178
    Wr2 Jj bulu
    Mega t-tar
  13. Eclipse

    Eclipse Crux hunter
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2015
    Messages:
    493
    I'm busy atm and can't update this, so i'm extending discussion and laddering phase until tomorrow at 5:00 PM EST!
    GMars likes this.
  14. GMars

    GMars It's ya boy GEEEEEEEEMARS
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Messages:
    382
    Quick post on Mega Mane:


    [​IMG]
    Honestly, Mega Manectric was a lot better than I thought it would be going in. While it faces a lot of competition from Tapu Koko, it still manages to carve out a niche thanks to its speed tier, simultaneous access to Fire-type and Ice-type coverage, and Intimidate. Toxapex is a great partner for it this gen, as it freely set up Toxic Spikes versus a lot of Manectric switch-ins, supporting late-game sweeps and forcing in opposing Toxapex for Manectric to take advantage of. Still works great with Weavile, and it finally gave me a chance to try out Alolan Marowak as a stallbreaker, which has been such a fun mon.

    Final team I used is below. Team overall struggles a bit with Heatran and can be pressured by offensive Dragon moves, though Weavile and Latios are able to revenge most dragons, especially those that are forced into Outrage to break through Tangrowth like Zygarde and Garchomp, while Weavile is also able to pursuit trap Latios and tank a scarf Draco from full.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    importable (open)

    Manectric @ Manectite
    Ability: Lightning Rod
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Volt Switch
    - Overheat

    Weavile @ Choice Band
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Ice Shard
    - Icicle Crash
    - Knock Off
    - Pursuit

    Toxapex @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Haze
    - Recover
    - Toxic Spikes

    Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Knock Off
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Earthquake

    Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
    Ability: Rock Head / Lightning Rod
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Shadow Bone
    - Flare Blitz / Fire Punch
    - Swords Dance
    - Stealth Rock

    Latios @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Hidden Power [Fighting] / Trick
    - Defog
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017 at 6:17 PM
  15. Silver_Lucario42

    Silver_Lucario42

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Messages:
    660
    dropping out, made a ttar team but i couldn't get it to work. it was really bad. sorry guys
    GMars and Riddikulusness like this.
  16. Pantastic

    Pantastic

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2017
    Messages:
    35
    Mega Mane does have some merits over Tapu Koko as others have mentioned. While you lose the nice defensive fairy typing, Intimidate and access to strong fire moves more than make up for this fact.



    TEAM (open)

    Manectric-Mega @ Manectite
    Ability: Lightning Rod
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Overheat

    Tapu Bulu @ Life Orb
    Ability: Grassy Surge
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Superpower
    - Swords Dance
    - Horn Leech
    - Zen Headbutt

    Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 124 SpD / 24 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Spikes
    - Defog
    - Roost
    - Brave Bird

    Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Battle Bond
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Dark Pulse
    - Hydro Pump
    - Water Shuriken
    - U-turn

    Landorus-Therian @ Flyinium Z
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - U-turn
    - Fly
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake

    Latios @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psychic
    - Shadow Ball
    - Trick


    Description (open)

    I felt that Mega Mane best fits on spike/t-spikes stacking teams which take advantage of it's ability to force tons of switches. Although I couldn't get very far (only made it to mid-ladder before school work became more intensive, had some tests and projects due), I had some success with a Mega Man- Tapu Bulu core. I used SD Bulu with Zen Headbutt to lure potential Mega-Venu and Amoonguss, and ran enough speed to outspeed most mew spreads and max speed Jolly Bisharp, the latter which is a nightmare to face otherwise. While Grassy Terrain did help heal some of the chip damage dealt, I felt that it's ability to weaken EQs aimed at Mega Mane while also feasting on bulky grounds with Horn Leech more than made up for the detriment. It also serves as the teams main answer against stall.

    I used Skarmory as my Spiker as it could both somewhat switch into Tapu Lele and also because my Mega-Mane - Bulu core gets absolutely trashed by Mamoswine. Skarmory is the weakest link and is often fodder after getting up a spike or two, I've been considering dropping defog since I never use it and also optimizing EV spread, but haven't found time to seriously do the latter.

    Ash-Greninja and Mega-Man both apply pressure to bulky grasses, forcing things like Mega-Venu and Tangrowth to repeatedly take Specs Dark Pulses or Overheats, respectively, while switching into spikes. This in theory, should eventually wear them down to the point that they'd fall.

    Fly-Z Lando with U-turn over SD, partially to bluff no Z-move since most run SD, as my rocker. Can get off a desperate SSSS if need be to punch a hole.

    Scarf Latios for some speed control with Shadow Ball to hit weakened Tapu Lele, although it needs to be considerably weakened to do so (around 50%).

    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017 at 11:22 PM
    volx757, Silver_Lucario42 and GMars like this.
  17. Eclipse

    Eclipse Crux hunter
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2015
    Messages:
    493
    Congrats to Pantastic for winnining the laddering phase! I will update this sometime tomorrow hopefully; I'll keep discussion phase open for another day so that more people can post for their mon while we get the next round ready.
    Pantastic and GMars like this.
  18. Eclipse

    Eclipse Crux hunter
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2015
    Messages:
    493
    Alright this round is over! The posts that are being archived are this post by Riddikulusness on Mega Tyranitar and this post by GMars on Mega Manectric. I'll add your posts to the Hall of Fame when I get the chance.

    Round 3:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    I just wanted to throw in two broken ass wallbreakers, so here you go (they're not actually broken but w/e). Hoopa-U is still a cool option in this meta, mainly due to its Band set being able to lure in its usual checks such as Magearna, while Mega Char-Y is a mon that I have always been a fan of. We will be researching these two mons in this round, so post in this thread with the WR3 alt you'll be using, then get to researching! Laddering and discussion phase ends on Sunday, July 2nd at 10:00 PM EST/GMT-4.
  19. GMars

    GMars It's ya boy GEEEEEEEEMARS
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Messages:
    382
    Alt: WR3 GMars
    Mon: Hoopa-U
    Riddikulusness and Eclipse like this.
  20. Pantastic

    Pantastic

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2017
    Messages:
    35
    Alt : WR3 Mooncakes

    Mon: Hoopa-U
    Eclipse and GMars like this.
  21. PsychoCut42

    PsychoCut42

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Messages:
    30
    Alt: wr3 pcut
    Mon: Hoopa-U
    Eclipse and GMars like this.
  22. Riddikulusness

    Riddikulusness formerly RIDDIKULUS442

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Messages:
    62
    Alt: WR3 Riddik
    Mon: Mega Zard-Y
    GMars and Eclipse like this.
  23. volx757

    volx757

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Messages:
    219
    nice

    WR3 Volx
    Hoopa
    Eclipse likes this.
  24. Pantastic

    Pantastic

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2017
    Messages:
    35
    Going to preemptively post my team, it's doing okay so far. Maybe it'll give somebody reading this thread some ideas. I'll be adding the analyses of Hoopa-U in around a week. Also toying around with LO 3 Attacks+Sub


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Team (open)


    Hoopa-Unbound @ Life Orb
    Ability: Magician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Hyperspace Fury
    - Fire Punch
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Gunk Shot

    Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Waterfall
    - Crunch
    - Taunt
    - Dragon Dance

    Heatran @ Grassium Z
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Solar Beam
    - Magma Storm
    - Earth Power
    - Stealth Rock

    Mew @ Leftovers
    Ability: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 68 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Defog
    - U-turn
    - Roost
    - Will-O-Wisp

    Latios @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Trick
    - Thunderbolt

    Tapu Koko @ Magnet
    Ability: Electric Surge
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - U-turn
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Taunt



    Explanation (open)


    I chose LO Hoopa-U since switching up moves is critical on this team, as my only real pivot is Mew. The basic concept of this team was to build around the dark spam core of Hoopa-U and M-Gyarados. Use Hoopa-U to spam Hyperspace Fury and coverage if needed, and then clean up with M-Gyarados with assistance from other members of the squad.

    Defensive Mew to pivot and spread burns to compensate for Hoopas weak af defenses. Mew is also the teams defogger. Gyarados intimidate helps a bit in this regard as well, of softening physical blows. Mew has u-turn to pivot into Hoopa if possible. Tapu Koko also u-turn > volt switch for guaranteed switching.

    Heatran is a great partner so far with Bloom Doom being able to weaken Fini and consistently get up the rocks.

    Tapu Koko and Latios can help clean up late game, Latios is scarfed for that sweet sweet speed control (also I have no priority...rip).


    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017 at 4:48 AM
    CZ., GMars and Eclipse like this.
  25. Ktütverde

    Ktütverde

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2015
    Messages:
    106
    Alt: WR3 Ktut
    Mon: Hoopa-U

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