SM OU Specs Peligod (More like Specs PeliGOOD amirite...!)

[it▓ch▒Gl░]

Introduction

Ever since Pelipper has received Drizzle, it's been a wonderful addition to rain teams. However, today I present to you a team where Pelipper does more than simply bring the rain - today Pelipper will bring the pain as well.

This team typically works in three phases: weaken opposing team with Pelipper and Thundurus; limit switches with Stealth Rock and Spikes; sweep with your wincon. The wincon is most commonly Ash-Greninja, though Garchomp is able to clean up depending on the team you are battling.

I am new here, and I have read as many RMT resources a possible, but I do apologise if I make any mistakes.

Teambuilding Process

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Specs Pelipper was the main focus of my team, as I really wished to include it. Having played around with it I concluded that it is able to weaken many teams very quickly with its STAB Hurricane and Hydro Pump, as this coverage does not have many switch ins. The rain, while only lasting 5 turns in total, is able to support other team members without being tied down completely by the Rain Archetype. Pelipper is able to act as an offensive pivot to bring in the other members safely. Furthermore, when paired with Ash Greninja, this dual Water type core is potent when most teams' Water resists are Toxapex, Tangrowth, opposing Greninja and Keldeo, which can be threatened with Hurricane from Pelipper.

Ash-Greninja was my next pick, as I wanted an offensive Pokemon that could take advantage of the rain but not require the rain to function (by function, I mean hit hard and pressure balance teams). Ash-Greninja is able to set up Spikes, supporting other members such as Pelipper and Thundurus in their endeavours to KO Pokemon that first require some chip damage. Ash-Greninja, once Battle Bond has activated, is able to become a wincon for a weakened team, as rain-boosted Water Shuriken can pick off offensive threats such as Mega Lopunny and Scarf Garchomp.

Ferrothorn is an important member on this team, as it is able to resist a slew of Water-type attacks that are unavoidably boosted by Pelipper's Drizzle. Able to set up Stealth Rock to facilitate a sweep from Ash Greninja or Thundurus or a clean from Garchomp. Leech Seed can support Pelipper and other team members who lack recovery in some balance or bulkier match ups where Pelipper is most valuable. Ferrothorn is able to act as a soft check to some Magearna variants, such as Assault Vest lacking HP Fire/Focus Blast, Bolt Beam + Shift Gear + Calm Mind, as well as being able to absorb most damage spit out by Tapu Koko. Both of which threaten the previous two Pokemon.

The present team is weak to Volcarona, so Garchomp was my pick for the 101+ speed Scarfer with a Rock type move, chosen over Keldeo and Nihilego for it's immunity to Electric type moves and ability to hit Volcarona on it's weaker side, respectively. Garchomp also acts as a cleaner for the late game.

Given the importance of hazards and the questionable stall match-up, mixed Defiant Thundurus seemed like a perfect fit. Thundurus is able to either deter Defog or become more threatening when it goes off, pressuring the opponent offensively. The Thundurus set used is able to cripple Chansey with Knock Off, as well as check slower, bulkier threats such as Tyranitar and Ferrothorn. Often Thundurus is able to get off a mini sweep against bulky offense archetypes.

My last member was Mega Scizor, as I required a physically defensive hazard remover that was able to check Mega Lopunny defensively, as well as Uturn to safely bring in one of its teammates. Bullet Punch also helps against weakened set up sweepers such as Dual Dance Landorus-T.

The Team

Pelipper @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Hurricane
- Hydro Pump
- Knock Off

Choice Specs Pelipper is the team's main wall breaker, able to dent many Pokemon with its STABs. Celesteela, Toxapex, Tangrowth, Magearna and MSableye are usually able to bother Ash-Greninja, but are able to be 2HKOd at least upon switch in. Timid nature is preferred, as outspeeding the prehistoric Adamant Bulu and speed tying with Shift Gear Magearna are important benchmarks. Pelipper is also able to outspeed the bulkier Defensive Landorus-T variants, which catches many off guard. Knock Off will help remove eviolite on Chansey, helping the stall match up once again. U-turn will also grant you momentum, allowing you to gain switch initiative and preserve Pelipper and or rain turns for a later time.

Greninja-Ash @ Splash Plate
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Spikes

This Ash-Greninja set is a little on the unconventional side, as typically Choice Specs would be the go-to item. However, this time I have decided on Splash Plate. The Splash Plate allows Ash Greninja to successfully bluff a Choice Specs set if you have only revealed U-Turn on Pelipper, as you opponent may suspect a non-choiced set if you have revealed Pelipper to have Choice Specs. The lack in power is noticeable for Dark Pulse, however I believe that the rain boost + bluff is enough to warrant Splash plate over Life Orb (your Water type attacks do more than a regular Specs set that does not have rain support). Another benefit of the Splash Plate is that you can set up Spikes more reliably without fear of being locked in as well as being able to surprise opponents with a Water Shuriken if they try to revenge KO Ash Greninja with a weakened Pokemon.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 1 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed

Ferrothorn is here to resist Water type attacks and set up Stealth Rock. And he's almost done with his Stealth Rock... The support that Ferrothorn's moveset provides is invaluable for the other members of the team who may miss out on KOs without hazard support. Power Whip and Gyro Ball are both included, as Power Whip is able to deal more damage to Tapu Fini, as well has having more PP in a stall match up. Gyro Ball is still needed for Clefable, Tapu Bulu and Shift Gear Magearna. Leech Seed can provide support for Pelipper and other teammates who lack recovery against set up sweepers or bulkier Pokemon who would rather stay seeded and set up than switch out. That said, the switches Leech Seed forces will assist in racking up hazard damage from Rocks and or Spikes. This set's EVs are more specially Defensive to assist with Magearna, Tapu Koko and Keldeo locked into Hydro Pump or Scald.

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb

Garchomp protects the team as best he can from Volcarona, while also being a viable wincon or cleaner option in the late game. Garchomp's immunity to Electric type moves protects Greninja and Pelipper while taking some of the defensive pressure off of Ferrothorn. Garchomp also allows the team to maintain some speed control alongside the priority moves from Greninja and Mega Scizor.

Thundurus @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 224 Atk / 32 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Superpower
- Fly
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off

Thundurus helps this team versus its stall match up. It won't 6-0 stall, but its a threat that isn't trapped by Dugtrio. Knock Off into Superpower/ZFly severely hurt Chansey, one of stall's biggest threats to this team. ZFly will also lure in an dispose of most Tangrowth, while also being able to beat Landorus after an Intimidate. Defiant also ensures that Defog from the opponent's side is less desirable, and can allow Thundurus to get a decent mini sweep off if Defiant activates. 32 SpA allows Thundurus to 2HKO Toxapex, Tapu Fini and Celesteela with Thunderbolt, while the remaining EVs in attack will threaten Kyurem-Black, Chansey and other specially defensive Pokemon that think they are safe from a special attacking Thundurus. HP Ice is not needed, as most of the team can deal with Garchomp, Landorus and Zygarde if need be.

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 184 Def / 76 Spe
Impish Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog

Mega Scizor provides the team with a check to Mega Lopunny and other physically offensive threats while also providing hazard removal, should it be needed. Roost will keep Mega Scizor healthy throughout the match. The EV spread is physically oriented in order to make up for Ferrothorn being specially defensive. Mega Scizor also provides U-turn support for the team's breakers and sweepers while also threatening set up sweepers with Bullet Punch. Finally, the rain can help Mega Scizor check Pokemon who only run Hidden Power Fire as their means of denting it.

Conclusion

This is my first RMT. I hope I have been able to highlight the strengths of this team that utilises Specs Pelipper, an unusual pick. I have found this team to be successful versus bulkier teams and balance, though the stall match up is still dependent on luck (i.e. Hydro Pump hitting). The match up versus offense is usually okay, however Psychic Terrain + MZam can occasionally trouble the usual checks. I find that Ash Greninja is most commonly my wincon, however should it go down prematurely the team is often able to recover and allow a sweep with Thundurus + Garchomp, as most of Greninja's checks are shared with Garchomp, but eliminated by Thundurus. Any improvements for this team, as a RMT thread, would be great!

Importable

Pelipper @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Hurricane
- Hydro Pump
- Knock Off

Greninja-Ash @ Splash Plate
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Spikes

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 1 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb

Thundurus @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 224 Atk / 32 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Superpower
- Fly
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 184 Def / 76 Spe
Impish Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog

 

[Anish]

yo cool team,

i rlly like the structure of this team, and specs pelli + ash gren is a really potent core making this team p cool. the team is fairly solid, though set up zyg sets like dd sub prot ,dd dragonium, or even dual dance or sub coil can be annoying for this team to face, especially since ferro is specially biased on this team, while at certain times offensive lando can be annoying as well over here. spikesstack + defog can be counterproductive as well especially when mixed thundy keeps spikes up.

id recommend hp ice sciz > defog. hp ice gives sciz a good way to hit off lando(especially continental crush variants) / dd zygarde / garchomp which can be annoying for this team, especially since its your primary answer to ground types. you are rarely going to click defog since you have spikes + defiant to exert pressure upon your opponents team. running an impish or a relaxed nature is up to you, with impish 68 helping w azu, while also outspeeding vena and av magnezone. with a relaxed nature hp ice into bp almost always kills offensive lando, which is fairly annoying. the only matchup which this really hurts you versus is stall , however if you can keep spikes up against stall you can still pressure them and give yourself a decent chance of winning, while dual defog stall teams are prob the most common rn which mean u dont need defog vs them.

id recommend modest nature on pelliper > timid, so that specs pelliper can do more damage to pokemon like chansey and just hit harder. this does have the downside of not speed tying shift gear magearna, however you have some decent magearna checks in sciz + ferrothorn and shouldnt really risk the tie and letting peli faint in most circumstances, while adamant bulu is a unset, and sciz is a good bulu check.

you could also consider changing your greninja item. one option could be running waterium z greninja and mixed life orb thundurus. this doesnt really hurt your tangrowth matchup, as if you knock tang it isnt that hard for greninja to break past it, especially in rain, while hydro vortex gives you a 100% accurate nuke which maintains pressure on mons like pex (since t spikes can be annoying) while still not keeping you locked. it also has the surprise factor to lure mons and make it easier to get ash form (due to z move doing more damage). life orb thundy also is able to maintain more pressure on mons like clef on stall, since replacing removal hurt specs pellis longativity vs stall, and while thundy does have longativity issues itself, the combination of it pelliper and spikes can win the mu if played correctly. this does make other grasses like m vena and amoonguss more annoying but spikes can help weaken them while rain also hurts m venas recovering ability. specs could be another option, even though you referred to not wanting to run specs, as specs shuriken in rain still hits considerably harder than splash plate / z move sets, allowing you to get kills on mons like m zam and scarfchomp in rain after transforming.

importable

Pelipper @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- U-turn
- Hurricane
- Hydro Pump
- Knock Off

Greninja-Ash @ Splash Plate / Waterium Z
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Spikes

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 1 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb

Thundurus @ Flyinium Z / Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 224 Atk / 32 SpA / 252 Spe OR 68 Atk / 188 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Superpower
- Fly / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 184 Def / 76 Spe OR 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Relaxed/Impish Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Ice]

 

[it▓ch▒Gl░]

Thanks so much for your help! Believe it or not, but during the team building process I had considered each of these ideas individually, but never all at once. I will definitely test this out.

I think HP Ice Scizor will be some cool tech for Zygarde and will definitely help out versus those set up Landorus-T.

Modest Pelipper does sound like a good idea to try, as I can certainly see the appeal in hitting harder! I think that Modest will still outspeed most Defensive Landorus while not missing anything too important, which is a plus.

Tyranitar has been a large issue for this team, and I think that Mixed Thundurus will help combat against that issue, as this way it will have no solid times to switch in (commonly BandTar was switching in on Thundurus, claiming its free KO).

I will have to run some calcs on Waterium Z Greninja, but I think it's certainly an option.

Once I have tested these out, I will get back to you with results and a much more coherent response!

 

[it▓ch▒Gl░]

Alright, its been about three weeks now, and I have managed to test out a myriad of the combinations suggested by you and some other friends who have helped me. Through my testing I have concluded:

HP Ice on Scizor has been beneficial in about every match up against set up Landorus, and most match ups where a set up Zygarde was present (particularly on Aurora Veil teams). I think this one comes down to the preference and the situation, as Toxic Spikes and other hazards on bulky offensive teams are quite bothersome to this team. For ladder, I would run Defog Scizor up until 1500-1600s, but after this I ran HP Ice to more effect.

Modest > Timid Pelipper was a no brainer, to be completely honest. There were probably only two instances where the speed mattered, but they were against some obscure sets such as fast non choiced Magnezone and Jirachi (which could have been avoided with better plays on my end).

Now the final decision on the last suggestion was really difficult. On one hand, I really valued Mixed Thundurus versus Tyranitar, which has become a little more popular recently. However, versus stall its longevity was significantly shortened, as Life Orb recoil, Toxic and other passive damage really hindered the stall match up. Versus Tangrowth it was fine, but MVenu teams were highly bothersome. As a result, I found that the original Z Fly Thundurus was the set I preferred, though I can see the merit of the mixed Thundurus.

Greninja's item was equally tough to choose. The Waterium Z was great for getting into Ash Form, but against the most prominent threats it didnt change the outcome too significantly. As a result, I found myself switching the two depending on what I was facing on the ladder.

Overall, I found your rate very helpful, but I think a combination of my still developing experience as a player, and the general offensive nature of the team makes this team really great for climbing the lower ladder. Once I get into the higher level matches, the team just isn't reliable as a whole, and I feel that the issue is with the presence of 5 (or 4 shareable) turns of rain not being abused to its fullest potential purely because of the limited turns. This is what I get for using Specs Pelipper, which I am able to accept as it has been a fun thought experiment. If I were to do this again, I think that I would keep the same core of Pelipper + Ash Greninja, but I would pretty much use 4 completely different Pokemon to support it - maybe a Hurricane Tornadus for some more speed control, or maybe a Mega Tar/Band Tar to kind of treat it like a Zard Y + TTar team resetting the weather. Who knows?

 

[Deleted User 400951]

Greninja's item was equally tough to choose. The Waterium Z was great for getting into Ash Form, but against the most prominent threats it didnt change the outcome too significantly. As a result, I found myself switching the two depending on what I was facing on the ladder.

Just here to say, never run a Z move on Ash Greninja. It seems cool to transform early, but it does less damage than specs regular Greninja:
252 SpA Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 204-240 (59.8 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 229-270 (67.1 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The damage output is sad indeed. Z move Ash Greninja is simply too weak to be viable.

 

[Anish]

Just here to say, never run a Z move on Ash Greninja. It seems cool to transform early, but it does less damage than specs regular Greninja:
252 SpA Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 204-240 (59.8 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 229-270 (67.1 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The damage output is sad indeed. Z move Ash Greninja is simply too weak to be viable.

Z Move Greninja has been having a rise in usage in multiple tournaments , such as the ongoing OLT season due to its ability to bluff a choice item, while running Spikes and having the ability to attack after it, while suprising other mons due to its ability to get a higher damage roll which could put mons into 2HKO range who would not expect to do so, which makes it a viable choice on a lot of teams which do not run a Z Move user. On this rate, it was an optional suggestion because of the additional Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss weakness, that removing Flynium Z Thundurus would inherently lead to, but nevertheless remains a popular choice on a lot of different teams.