Survivor SURVIVOR III: Hoenn - won by HeaLnDeaL

If you want to spin me (who has never played CAP in his life) throwing a CAP match to a CAP moderator or some shit who had already beaten everyone else in the roster as "mad social skills and expert manipulation" I don't know what to say. I never had a chance and I was working 10 hours a day that week lol.

You're god damn right I didn't buy your explanation for flipping on Jalmont and you were right to vote me because I would have turned on you the minute you lost immunity. You didn't hide your relationship with Viper and Animus well or play me for a fool, you took advantage of a position where I couldn't do much but pray you had some integrity left and valued the effort I put in to advancing our collective game.

EDIT: Oh yes and the cards challenge, which I knew you were taking great pains to rig. Are you really going to pretend you were subtle about that?
 
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HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
is an Artistis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
HeaLnDeaL why risk voting me out at f13 when there's a risk of if flyhn is remotely competitive that he gets you voted out between f10 and f8 by leaking just how seriously you were working with viper/animus? I'm entirely handstrung and cannot vote you until f6 at the earliest given likely game states by that time.

EDIT: I'm guessing the argument is along the lines of "PD/whydon are pushing this and it's hard for me to redirect this + I want him out eventually" rather than "this is my ideal f13 vote"
I just saw the edit, and what you said in the edit is pretty accurate, yes. That sums up my thoughts for that vote pretty well, though I think my earlier answers explained the "I want him out eventually" parts in more depth already.

1. How does coasting to a win off bad play and apathy feel
I guess I haven't really answered this question yet. When I first read it there was a buzz of information flying at me and it seemed like you were calling my plays bad and I thought you were just being salty, but now I think you might mean that the other players played poorly? Idk. I definitely think that the other players made flawed judgments about me and if that's what you mean then I can certainly agree with that. I mean, I'm a CAP room owner and CAP forum mod, of course I'm going to want to ally with CAP people. I tried to make the circus people think otherwise by saying "yeah I'm in CAP, but I also hosted CAP survivor and I know how those guys can be and how they play and DON'T want to sit next to them at the end lol." I don't think I ever fully fooled them, but I was obviously able to buy time. I made it seem like "Oh, HeaL might be working with CAP people, but in the short term he will still help me so I need to keep him around... And oh, some time has passed and he's still really open to strategize with me and he spends a lot of time talking with me and his ally that I like suddenly out of the blue made a discord server for us and since HeaL's not the owner of the discord server there's no way that HeaL just asked the mutual ally to make it so that HeaL could fool me into thinking I was safe but oh no now I'm voted out and I can't tell my other ally not to fall for the same trick."

So, if you're accusing other people of making bad plays, yeah, they did. But a bad play is relative to a good play and within the game the measuring stick of a good/bad play isn't always that visible... I mean I definitely tried to make the other players think that they were making good moves when they worked with me, or at least a good play relative to the other options that they had left.

In terms of players with apathy, I mean are you just referring to Animus? To Haruno? Idk. Animus was loyal and didn't indicate to me that he actually wanted to win and I've been friends with Animus for something like four of five years. I'm very happy I got to go to the end with Animus. I think how long this dang game went on added to apathy as well as some players lost interest or didn't have the time, including my good metal friend LG. I think if I'm a future host for survivor or any other circus game, I definitely want to minimize apathy from players by spacing the game in a way that keeps interest up longer. Truth be told it would have been fun to play with more people who kept their excitement for the game, but at the same time it's not like I'm not going to take my inactive but very close friend Animus to the end when it's pretty clear taking him is my best play.

So how does that feel? It feels like I had control. The downside to my feelings of course is that it did feel bad to vote out people who I cared about when that had to happen, and lying to people made me feel pretty shitty throughout the game. There's this really weird thing in Survivor where a player has to struggle between honoring their bonds with people and honoring the game itself. If I didn't try to stay in control with the tricks I had, then I wasn't being honest to the game. This is where some of the old school/new school split comes into play in survivor, and there are individual players (jurors) who deserve honoring relationships and those that honor playing the game. I tried to play the game and stay honorable to a few key people, namely PD, Animus, and Flyhn. I really wanted to honor viper as well but the game mechanics couldn't let me honor both Flyhn and viper.


Blazade said:
If you want to spin me (who has never played CAP in his life) throwing a CAP match to a CAP moderator or some shit who had already beaten everyone else in the roster as "mad social skills and expert manipulation" I don't know what to say. I never had a chance and I was working 10 hours a day that week lol.

You're god damn right I didn't buy your explanation for flipping on Jalmont and you were right to vote me because I would have turned on you the minute you lost immunity. You didn't hide your relationship with Viper and Animus well or play me for a fool, you took advantage of a position where I couldn't do much but pray you had some integrity left and valued the effort I put in to advancing our collective game.
I agree that we both knew the odds were in my favor in that CAP match. It almost sounds like you're saying you would have rather lost the challenge by making me think you were helping me rather than try to do your best in a tier you were unfamiliar with to try and fight an uphill battle; if you tried and lost it might have damaged our relationship, but if you put in minimal effort and hoped I respected you for giving me an edge I might be more prone to keeping you. And that's a very fair judgment to make, if that is the one you made. You were sort of stuck in between a rock and a hard place. This also brings up the very good point that not all "throwing" is a bad play and not all "throwing" is equal (I threw some matches to PD because I thought that was my best play during some times as well). The problem with that is you were hoping to be carried during the CAP match (and decided to strike at me later when the conditions were more favorable) and I could only carry a few people with me at the most and I knew you'd cut me if you had the chance. I don't think you played a bad game by any means and I do respect many of the decisions that you made and if you had been able to vote me out then I would have respected that to.

I definitely tried to make people think that the best way for them to get to the end was for me to carry them there at least part of the way and I tried to create situations where people felt like they needed me in some way or another.

In terms of the "expert manipulation" that I admittedly lack, one of the biggest reasons why I had to vote you out was because I knew you were someone who I couldn't manipulate. And I respect you for that.
 
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Da Letter El

Officially internet famous
is a Community Leader Alumnus
2 things

1. Stop actively trying to suck up. It comes off as disingenuous. Let your play do the talking

2. I wasn't trying to insult you with that comment. It's just sort of shameful how much of the game around you played
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
is an Artistis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Screw you for saying I'm trying to suck up, you are a flippin' person I flippin' respect and I will talk to you respectively if I damn please.

Much love,
-HeaL
 
It wasn't anything to do with our relationship in any way it was just a time evaluation. After you I had the rest of the playerlist of CAP players to beat and it wasn't going to happen. The team you gave me was probably better than one I could have built myself anyway so joke's on you :P. When the hosts make laddering challenges I also forfeit those because I can't commit the time to them.

I wasn't hoping to be carried. As with my partnership with rssp1, I was hoping my friend wasn't thinking of it as "carrying" me.
 
Its probably easier for me to write a brief explanation on how I played the game and then answer the questions if I didn’t end up answering them.
I signed up for Survivor because Heal asked me to. We’re good friends and have been apart of the CAP room for about 6 years. Whether or not he wanted me to join just so he could have my vote when it counted, help him eliminate someone in the game, etc. I was OK with that because I had no experience at all with Survivor, or honestly any game remotely like this. For the first 6-8 weeks, at vote times, I remember telling my groupo members that if it was a tough decision to vote someone in the tribe out, they could vote me out and it would be OK with me, no hard feelings. Obviously I don’t have logs of this but you can take or not take my word for it. Anyway, for some reason I didn’t die after 2 months and at some point I decided that I would try to win the game. I hadn’t done anything related to the challenges up to this point because 1) the tribes I was put in always had people that were really trying to solve them and 2) I really didn’t want to do any of them because I suck at creative things. I participated in the battles because they were effectively mandatory but that’s about it.

So 2 months in and I have no alliances with anyone, and I don’t remember being with Heal either so I’m basically alone. But then I thought again how I had not died yet and realized/confirmed with Heal that he had been helping keep me alive kind of throughout the game for the tougher parts, making alliances with a lot of people, and really becoming a ‘threat’ in the game. Based on the questions I got, I’m pretty sure that none of you have really ever talked with me throughout the game, and that was what my plan became. I did nothing the first couple months because for most of the challenges my individual effort was not required, and then for most of the remaining ones in god knows how longs this survivor challenge took, I actively tried to become exactly the opposite of a threat. I figured that if at each voting (and this is especially true for the remaining ~15 people) only one person died, all I had to do was not be either the scariest person remaining, the most threatening person remaining, or the most hated person remaining and I would survive. Survive until the next vote and so on. I knew that Heal was putting in the effort to keep me alive so that I would vote what he wanted me to vote, and I was fine doing that because he would keep me alive again because I was not threatening and because the entire game I had voted how he wanted me to.

I got asked about Viper being a friend in the game and he was. He was always the second one though, and it was a tough choice to vote Viper in the end over Flyhn in the revote. Part of the friendship was because he was on my CAPTT team, and while I say Heal kept me alive, Viper played a large part in that as well. It really helped that I had 2 CAP players alive that I knew would want to keep me in for a majority of the game (no hard feelings when you wanted to vote me out in the final 4 vote). This allowed my strategy to work, because if I didn’t have to do much to survive why would I change my strategy. That and I still didn’t want to put in time though I would have put in a bit more if I needed to.
With my post(s) I’m supposed to convince the jury that I deserve the win, and I spent last night thinking of how I could possibly do that. Most people think that I threw a lot of games, which I did because it was part of Heal’s plan for the vote and it didn’t deviate from what you all thought of me in the game. Now I will say that my favorite challenge was when we got the questions and each person answered a person for the each of the questions. I really laughed looking at the questions and answers, and some of the questions I was like I am definitely the answer (luckiest to be alive). Because I am pretty lucky to be here. Having said this, I don’t think there was anything else I could have done to get this far. If after a couple months of literally trying to die in the game because I didn’t want to put in the effort, to randomly starting to try with not many friends to keep me in the game, surely I would have died. Me being alive is a combination of luck, Heal and Viper keeping me alive because as long as I kept to the CAP vote we were gucci, and staying under the radar for the whole game so I would not pose a threat to anyone. I got close to dying once when Blazade’s squad almost got me because I’m pretty sure he knew the only way to beat the CAP squad was to eliminate them 1 by 1 when there were still enough people to get them out. This was probably the only vote where I really considered the vote, and once Blazade was out I was confident I would make it to final 3.

The last thing I will say is that I am still alive in the game where all of you were voted out and that has to say something about either my luck or that I positioned myself with the right people and did the right things to stay in the game until now. I’m a survivor ;)
 
THE BIG FLYHN GAME SUMMARY
here we go...

Week 1/F32
Almost immediately I was recruited to the OG Claw Tribe's main alliance by Blazade. I learned that King was the one who proposed the group, which consisted of Blazade/Me/King/Memoric/zorbees. King had apparently done this in response to an alliance of Mikaav, MK, and PD. We lost the immunity this week and MK was voted out, seen as the weakest link among those three.

Week 2/F30
We won immunity this week. Not much happened

Week 3/F28
Lost immunity. We predicted a swap soon and as such elected to take out who we perceived as the stronger of the two players outside our "5 guys" group, Mikaav.

Week 4/F26
Won immunity

Tribe Swap
I was drafted to New Root tribe by Whydon, who went on to immediately butter me up about how much he wanted to work with me, and he already had Myzo as an ally from his previous tribe, and he was sure he could convince Wob to vote in our favor as well. It seemed like a decent deal and none of my previous allies were with me, so I figured this was a good arrangement to go with

Week 5/F24
It's no secret New Root for the three in-game weeks it existed for didn't win a single tribal immunity. This week was notable for the controversy surrounding the vote... I very nearly went home right here due to poor communication and me believing up to this point votes weren't revealed until deadline REGARDLESS of how early all votes were recieved. My vote change from Wob to Asek was ruled too late... but thankfully Wob's change to Asek from me wasn't, due to the hosts simply missing it from it being an edit rather than a new message. I still threw my vote due to the error through.

Week 6/F22
Lost again. Myzo flipped on us due to a pre-existing out-of-game bond with Mithril, but Wob's swing vote decision was to side with Whydon, so Mithril was voted out

Week 7/F20
We decided to take Wob over Myzo due to last week's flip, and yet again Wob voted with us. At this point he had cemented himself as a reliable partner for Whydon

Groudon & Kyogre tribes
I was quite impressed with Groudon when I first learned my tribemates Whydon and I stayed together, but in addition four of the five members of my original alliance were on this tribe. With Whydon also on our side, we could be unstoppable... or so I thought

Week 8/F18
I was attempting to get Whydon to act as our 5th member for this tribe, and King for reasons I still don't know trusted PD, who KNEW he was the last OG Claw that wasn't in the alliance. We couldn't convince him, and Whydon also sided with the LC/CAP group due to an early game connection with Hilo, and zorbees was out.

Week 9/F17
I questioned Whydon, and despite it being blatantly obvious he was involved in getting rid of zorbees, he tried to pin it on King, a player that I knew first hand ALWAYS without fail sides with his original tribe over all else. I didn't buy it for a second, and the fact the lie was so blatant made it clear he had no real intention of working with me, yet he was still hellbent on keeping me for some reason.. King managed to get Memoric voted out before he was with an immunity idol lie, but at this point there wasn't a thing we could do short of starting to win tribal immunities. Thankfully our opponents on our tribe were honorable enough to at least abstain from throwing

Week 10/F16
Our luck was running out here. The LC/CAP team had seen through King's immunity idol lie and got rid of him. As to pretend to be Whydon's pawn, and since even if i had voted against it King would've been sent home anyway, I voted King here. This helped retain Whydon's trust just a bit longer

Week 11/F15
FINALLY an immunity. My connection with Whydon ensured I would never really be on the chopping block until at least all my other Claw allies were gone.. but why bother when he was blatantly lying to me already?

MERGE
At merge, I re-established contact with Blazade, and made contact with King/zorbees allies on New Dome, Dle and Jalmont. Originally I hadn't even considered Heal.. but circumstances were going to get interesting quickly.

Week 12/F14
Whydon was a threat now, though I was still keeping that door open at first just in case nothing else worked out. Can't remember who between Blazade and Pidge won immunity here since it was never posted, but neither of them were even close to the chopping block so it doesn't matter. I was gunning for PD this week out of LC paranoia left over from last game's result (that had been proven true to some extent with the events of Groudon) and he was the LC that made things the most personal. The vote ended up being a tie between PD and Hilo. At some point this week Dle had introduced me to Heal, someone Whydon seemed to not like at ALL at this point and was warning me about. But because Whydon had lied before I took what he said with a grain of salt here and trusted Dle's trust in Heal, flipping my vote and getting rid of Hilo. After all, I could always get PD next week, right? And Hilo was also one of the people who stomped my Claw allies, I had no issue getting rid of him. I saw him and Whydon proposing an F3 and claiming they planned to flip on the LC/CAP group with me if we had lost the final tribal immunity even though that'd just be a needless rocks risk for them as nothing more than a desperate attempt to save Hilo.

Also of note was the excuse here was bought. That being a fake alliance Viper leaked, and Hilo being part of it so I decided he'd be a better choice. Whydon bought it, so I guess it served well enough.

Week 13/F13
PD won immunity, which threw a wrench in my gameplan. We decided Wob wouldn't be too hard to sell as a vote, given he was another Whydon ally and nobody on Kyogre really seemed to have a strong connection to him. However, Dle was the one who was voted out. Since it was still VERY early into our partnership and none of my other allies made a fuss about it my reaction was basically "Oh. Well shit, that sucks. Still have numbers if Whydon continues to believe I'm his pawn", which oddly enough, he did.

Week 14/F12
I don't remember this being a very eventful week. Blazade won immunity, and we successfully managed to rally ourselves and Whydon's group who was pissed at PD for being part of the Hilo vote to get rid of him.

Week 15/F11
Whydon was starting to catch on to the fact that he was the biggest target now that PD was gone, and started to talk about his idol and how we shouldn't vote him because of his idol. THIS i thought, was bullshit. It was finally time to decide which side I was taking, and it all came down to whether or not Whydon actually had an idol as he claimed. My thought process was "If he's scared enough to reveal he HAS an idol, why the hell wouldn't he use it unless it's a lie?". So i decided that I'd join the vote against him this week, and we had managed to piece together Heal and Viper's partnership and he decided to go with a Viper vote over Heal. Fine by me, anything as long as the deflect didn't go to me, and losing Viper would've been a big blow to Heal. Unfortunately, I overestimated how much Whydon still trusted me... apparently enough to not use the idol even though he had it and knew he was the game's biggest target. Up until Whydon said he had it above, I had no guilty conscious over getting rid of him because I thought him going home here proved he was lying to my face about having an idol... but it turns out I was wrong. You should've used it ;-;

Week 16/F10
Heal's immunity run begins here. Now that Whydon himself was gone I had officially chosen my side, and it was with Heal. I was aware he also had a connection to Viper/Animus, but i also knew pushing it would lose me my ally and my numbers, since Me/Blazade/Jalmont couldn't have vote control at this point no matter what we tried. Without Whydon the next step was clear out his allies, starting with proven immunity threat Pidge

Week 17/F9
The only immunity Heal didn't win from F10 onward, and it was won by none other than the OTHER major Whydon ally left and our intended target that week, Wob. Instead, we decided to go for sparktain, who could've reignited the CAP group and potentially become an immunity threat. The vote was unanimous.

Week 18/F8
From this point forward Heal was the sole immunity winner. Continuing our trend and knowing we only needed Heal to stay close to Viper/Animus to have numbers for just one more week, we decided once more to get rid of Wob, who at this point didn't have any allies left himself. Heal had other plans though, and this is when his true intentions started to come into fruition. The vote resulted in a tie, which in the second vote was broken by Heal to send Jalmont home. Because of this, we needed to continue to let Heal stay close with Viper/Animus to maintain numbers, though Heal was the one truly in control of the game now. Wob would NEVER side with me at this point due to what I did to Whydon, and Haruno wouldn't because... i had never talked to him up to that point, what reason would he have to actually side with me when asking him in the first place would make me look desperate?

Week 19/F7
I was hellbent on getting rid of Wob, since I felt Wob was a more likely to take CAP's side in a swing vote than Haruno was. Though Blazade thought doing anything other than following Heal's desire for a Haruno vote was suicide since we lacked the numbers to try to fight it for a Wob vote. I begrudgingly accepted as to not make a public scene by voting Wob anyway, and it was a unanimous vote for Haruno

Week 20/F6
Last chance. We desperately needed Viper to go over Wob this week to split up the Heal/Viper/Animus trio, but Wob seemed hellbent on eliminating Blazade and I instead if his late voting habits are to be believed. We kept the vote unanimous to hide the fact we were on to Heal, though my vote confessional with my Wob vote was literally "WP Heal, you got the F5 you wanted". But as anyone who knows anything about these types of shows themselves will tell you, the person who puppetmastered the game rarely actually wins. The jury flat out doesn't let them.

Week 21/F5
This was the point where I'd finally get to see Heal's next move after making the F5 he wanted and obtaining full control of the game. I was confident I was sticking around, and if I could somehow I'd keep Blazade to earn brownie points for loyalty with the jury. There's a reason despite legitimately working with Heal at this point now despite knowing we weren't his only F3 since the week Whydon left, I STILL refused to confirm to Heal his theory about Blazade taking Animus over him to finals was right on the money. Unfortunately though, he HAD come to that conclusion already himself, and Blazade was the one sent home this week

Week 22/F4
For the record, I knew your setup in round 1 of the immunity challenge was intentional. I just thought no matter what your team was Viper had been unlucky and given some pretty crap sets compared to what I had, and I wouldn't want to take them unless I could 100% confirm a type advantage.
Anyway, Heal started to talk with Viper and I both after this challenge. He couldn't take both of us, but he also didn't feel comfortable stabbing either one of us at this point. I accepted the idea of forcing a tie and having a challenge decide it, which had the added bonus of giving me a challenge win for people on the jury who care about that aspect should I make it. But then Viper decided to go behind Heal's back and try making deals with me regarding the challenge, something Heal had none of.

...anyone need further clarification?
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
is an Artistis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Animus Majulous said:
I signed up for Survivor because Heal asked me to.
In complete full disclosure, the jury should know that during the middle of sign ups (right before I personally signed up) rssp1 came to me and specifically asked me to ask CAPpers to sign up. Pretty much every CAPper who posted after me in the sign ups was someone I had asked to join the game because rssp1 asked me to. I believe the full list comes to Reviloja, jas, PD, Animus, Broken Phobias, and K. Rool. Broken Phobias signed up but didn't make it into the game, K. Rool made it to the game but quit soon. When I asked jas to join, I figured he might be useful for a quick short term alliance if he was on my starting tribe but I had no intentions of working long term with him because he was a threat in CAP survivor and I didn't want to be attached to jas as a pair, which would only increase my threat levels.

PD and Animus were the only two CAPpers that I asked to join the game that I wanted to work with in the long term. You may not have been able to see it in this season, but Animus is actually a very talented battler and I wanted to work with PD and Animus in part because of their ability to keep the heat off of me and make themselves look like bigger targets than me and because I wanted to be in an alliance capable of winning challenges when it was needed. Animus's low activity and his lack of desire to win in the early parts of the game obviously didn't lead him to become a threat, but in a way that obviously still proved useful to me. PD on the otherhand I think became a threat quite early, not just because of his willingness to try very hard in challenges but also because of his tendency to play the social game very... uh... bombastically or very loudly. I remember a moment on the merged Claw tribe where PD was trying to spread lies and start drama just to mess with Blazade, etc. and I had to pull him aside and ask him to be a bit more quiet. I saw PD useful to me because more eyes were on him than me and because he was my greatest asset for teambuilding and teamtesting in battle challenges; if PD had stayed in the game, the two of us could have had a decent chance of sweeping battle challenges. When he left, my battle strength weakened a bit and I had to compensate by having throwing strats here and there, sprinkled in between beating people like Flyhn naturally.

sparkrain and viper were not people who I asked to sign up as they signed up before I was even shown the thread.
 
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HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
is an Artistis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Lol I don't want to vote for anyone right now. I'm not impressed by a single line of reasoning in this thread.
I wasn't stupid in this game, and neither were you, but I struck first and I made the better alliances with people that kept me in this game. I didn't play all the sides in the merge and made it seem like we had at least some common enemies (the Whydon group) and that we could benefit each other by taking them out together. We both saw each other as threats but I put myself in a position to be in control and get you out before you could get me out.

You're still a cool dude who likes cool metal though and I did try to build a genuine friendship with you between the game's craziness. But this is "Survivor", not "Get Carried" and it certainly isn't "Let Your Target Take You Out."
 
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HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
is an Artistis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
This f3 is borderline offensive
I wouldn't be doing my job if this final three was completely unoffensive to you. Saying that it is borderline offensive means I did something right. I know that people who play multiple alliances normally get salt from the jury and the only way they win is by taking people who in other circumstances don't have strong cases to the jury.
 

Da Letter El

Officially internet famous
is a Community Leader Alumnus
I wouldn't be doing my job if this final three was completely unoffensive to you. You saying that it is borderline offensive means I did something right.
Note you’re not immune from this even if probably the least offender since at least you played to win. Getting into a spitting match with blazade is a bad look
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
is an Artistis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Note you’re not immune from this even if probably the least offender since at least you played to win. Getting into a spitting match with blazade is a bad look
Me saying that I outplayed/outlasted Blazade when I clearly did isn't a spitting match, it's the truth (don't think I outwitted Blazade since we were both onto each other). If you want to see a spitting match, go read the stuff Blazade said to rssp1 in the season 1 tribal. I editted into my above post late so I'll just say it here again: I know that people who play multiple alliances normally get salt from the jury and the only way they win is by taking people who in other circumstances don't have strong cases to the jury. So that's what I did.
 
Flyhn

Since when was the goal of the game “get to final 3”? Last I checked there is one winner
And who historically wins? The person in finals who acted the friendliest and didn't stab people who did nothing to them. The bully who takes control of the whole game doesn't win unless the asshole who spent the whole game insulting everyone is beside them. You think I didn't study previous juries for this?

Only problem is in previous games on this site specifically every jury was between people who were actually working together anyway. That was my plan too. Sure not having Blazade sitting here instead of Animus ruins that, but then again Animus floated most of the game. Floaters are even LESS likely to win. I actively had conversations with people until those people were taken away from me.

Here's another question here: What was the point of Heal making more than one deal and controlling the game? Taking control when you're on route to finals anyway is pointless. To answer my previous question, yes Heal still would've made it without immunity wins, because I would've made sure of it. If Heal had just abandoned one of his groups and went with the other, whichever one he chose would've had majority by F7, giving him a route for finals WITHOUT pissing people off by stabbing them. The game is played by having the most friends in jury, and Heal failed to accomplish that by burning most of the bridges he had
 

Da Letter El

Officially internet famous
is a Community Leader Alumnus
Me saying that I outplayed/outlasted Blazade when I clearly did isn't a spitting match, it's the truth (don't think I outwitted Blazade since we were both onto each other). If you want to see a spitting match, go read the stuff Blazade said to rssp1 in the season 1 tribal. I editted into my above post late so I'll just say it here again: I know that people who play multiple alliances normally get salt from the jury and the only way they win is by taking people who in other circumstances don't have strong cases to the jury. So that's what I did.
This is a bad read on the player base and on the dynamics of online survivor. There were only 2 people you worked with on any serious level that came into f3 particularly inclined against voting for you. It’s a lot easier over the internet not to take stabs personally than in rl survivor I imagine

Note this isn’t an argument that your f3 doesn’t have effectiveness. Just that how it was handled and viewing it as necessary is flawed
 
You're salty because I outplayed you. Get over it. I wasn't stupid in this game, and neither were you, but I struck first and I made the better alliances with people that kept me in this game. I didn't play all the sides in the merge and made it seem like we had at least some common enemies (the Whydon group) and that we could benefit each other by taking them out together. We both saw each other as threats but I put myself in a position to be in control and get you out before you could get me out.
And you're delusional if you think that you are the one that made me vote out my own legitimate enemies in this game. I couldn't have possibly predicted that viper and animus were literally ready to throw challenges to you all the way up to final 3 but once that's a given there's really no amount you can spin that to make yourself look like a god.

My loss is my problem, and while I am disappointed you felt you saw me as an enemy in this game, I don't hold that against you as far as voting is concerned. Deigning to keep me around while I have no numbers behind me, then consistently and blatantly lying to act like it's manipulation because you'll just vote me out if I don't play along is just a ridiculous narrative.
 

Da Letter El

Officially internet famous
is a Community Leader Alumnus
And who historically wins? The person in finals who acted the friendliest and didn't stab people who did nothing to them. The bully who takes control of the whole game doesn't win unless the asshole who spent the whole game insulting everyone is beside them. You think I didn't study previous juries for this?

Only problem is in previous games on this site specifically every jury was between people who were actually working together anyway. That was my plan too. Sure not having Blazade sitting here instead of Animus ruins that, but then again Animus floated most of the game. Floaters are even LESS likely to win. I actively had conversations with people until those people were taken away from me.

Here's another question here: What was the point of Heal making more than one deal and controlling the game? Taking control when you're on route to finals anyway is pointless. To answer my previous question, yes Heal still would've made it without immunity wins, because I would've made sure of it. If Heal had just abandoned one of his groups and went with the other, whichever one he chose would've had majority by F7, giving him a route for finals WITHOUT pissing people off by stabbing them. The game is played by having the most friends in jury, and Heal failed to accomplish that by burning most of the bridges he had
See my above post re: alienating voters

You fail to realize that literally the easiest argument to a win in f3 is “I voted for heal”
 
So you're saying in a game that took 7 goddamn months people aren't taking elimination personally?

....exactly how much time to you guys have that a 7 month game isn't personal? Or am I the only one crazy enough about Survivor/BB that my commitment is on par to that of an official game?
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
is an Artistis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Flyhn said:
Here's another question here: What was the point of Heal making more than one deal and controlling the game? Taking control when you're on route to finals anyway is pointless. To answer my previous question, yes Heal still would've made it without immunity wins, because I would've made sure of it. If Heal had just abandoned one of his groups and went with the other, whichever one he chose would've had majority by F7, giving him a route for finals WITHOUT pissing people off by stabbing them. The game is played by having the most friends in jury, and Heal failed to accomplish that by burning most of the bridges he had.
This is flawed logic. I would have pissed people off no matter what because I would have had to vote off friends no matter what. You're right that I stabbed DLE/Jalmont/Blazade as a result and that wasn't my only choice. However, if I hadn't stabbed them, then I would have had to stab Animus/PD and viper sooner.

I also did care about having lasting relationships with people I voted out once the game was over. As DLE said above, it's internet survivor... still some salt levels clearly from the jury, but it isn't quite the same level of betrayal. Lastly, I also think the past idk 10 seasons of TV survivor, the jury has grown to respect people who played to win. Tony, Adam, etc still got salt from the jury, but the jury still respected their game.

DLE said:
This is a bad read on the player base and on the dynamics of online survivor. There were only 2 people you worked with on any serious level that came into f3 particularly inclined against voting for you. It’s a lot easier over the internet not to take stabs personally than in rl survivor I imagine.
Yes I was fully aware that less spite happens in online survivor, but when you're sitting in the game and you don't see the jury it's still not easy to know what they were thinking. I played to win and I played to take people to the end that I could still beat even if salt occurred.

Blazade said:
And you're delusional if you think that you are the one that made me vote out my own legitimate enemies in this game.
I did not say that. I said that we had some mutual enemies that helped our relationship continue for as long as it did. I fully recognized I wasn't the only one who took action against Whydon, etc. and that you independently had your own enemies that you wanted out. I will say though that even if you and Flyhn didn't throw to me a lot/if at all, I definitely ASKED you guys to throw challenges to me, so I have no idea why you wouldn't think that I wasn't asking viper/animus and why you wouldn't think there was a good chance they would throw to me. Maybe you thought they wouldn't let me control them like that, but well they knew if I was gone they would lose numbers so it made sense for them to throw. Animus didn't have a huge heart to win the game and his own obvious inactivity that the tribe consistently snickered at was another major clue that I had people who would throw to me if you wouldn't. I also pushed for Haruno to go because he was a floater that could steal a seat at the end, but in the back of my mind I was thinking all the while "Animus holds the same position, but he's way more loyal and a way better friend, so I want to keep Animus. Animus helps me in the game, Haruno is a wildcard who voted for me once even when I had immunity lol."

Flyhn said:
....exactly how much time to you guys have that a 7 month game isn't personal? Or am I the only one crazy enough about Survivor/BB that my commitment is on par to that of an official game?
I think DLE's very early comments on apathy come into play as well. The 7 month game argument has a side to say that relationships get personal over time, but the counterargument is that 7 months make people bored and gives the earlier jury members a lot of time to be removed from intense personal reactions. And then, well, internet.
 

Da Letter El

Officially internet famous
is a Community Leader Alumnus
Flyhn

If you think in general I’m going to be more offended by a strategic decision on who to vote and when — even if obviously not in my favor and possibly could be timed better — over people not playing to blatantly obvious win conditions, you are sorely mistaken
 
Flyhn

If you think in general I’m going to be more offended by a strategic decision on who to vote and when — even if obviously not in my favor and possibly could be timed better — over people not playing to blatantly obvious win conditions, you are sorely mistaken
What win condition though? Heal won every immunity after Whydon was gone barring one, and that one was at a time when the CAP group was still completely unwilling to vote him out anyway.

If Whydon had used his idol..... ugh the fact that he actually had one is making me see this game in a completely different light
 

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