Survivor SURVIVOR III: Hoenn - won by HeaLnDeaL

[HeaLnDeaL]

I'll be the first to admit that Flyhn tried very hard. As DLE mentioned early, there was a fair amount of apathy in the game and not a lot of people had the time to be involved in the game as much as Flyhn, Viper, and myself were.

The thing is that I tried even harder than Flyhn and as a result I succeeded more. I anguished and persevered over the riddle clues and earned an idol, I established a field of root allies early in the game that let me find more. It's not like each ally I earned was just given to me for no effort; many of them were the results of weeks of talking to establish trust and weeks more of joint strategizing after that. Talking to as many people as I did and getting a feel of the land required a lot more effort than being comfortable with only a few, not to mention the time and effort involved in making many of my allies think that I liked them more than my other allies or at least make them believe I was still useful to them even if I had other allies. I tried very hard in challenges to come up with the best plans and the only challenge in the entire game that I wasn't very involved in was the chess challenge simply because I had teammates who knew chess way better. Flyhn was undoubtedly one of the people who talked to me the most and he tried a lot and I wanted someone like that to strategize with and we became friends. But when we reached the mid-merge, Flyhn's effort culminated with him having only two close allies (me and Blazade, or maaaybe arguably a third in Jalmont?) whereas I had way more. I played hard in the beginning, I played hard in the middle, and I played hard in the end and the relationships that I was try-hard in developing got me to the end while not only leaving me able to say that I tried hard but also while leaving me a resume.

I also very much disagree that Flyhn convinced people he was "stupid" or at the very least I didn't think he was stupid. I know that he felt Whydon looked down on him and that Whydon thought he could outsmart Flyhn, which made Flyhn feel like Whydon thought he was stupid (maybe Whydon did but idk, I'm not Whydon). Flyhn's ability to strategize with me showed he wasn't stupid in my eyes. Maybe Flyhn did convince people he wasn't a threat, but at the same time even based on what he's said in this tribal council he wasn't a threat to me and I continued working with him because of that.

 

[Blazade]

Well I'm misremembering shit now. The vote i got so anal about wasn't even about Viper, it was getting rid of Wob before Haruno because the former was less likely to take Me/Blazade's side, no matter how unlikely Haruno might have also been. Heal was against this, Blazade was against this.

...see, more stupid stuff. At least it helps hide when I'm actually not being stupid and just pretending every time it happens :P

Flyhn i vote viper there if you can give me a reason for it to work. Specifially if you had talked to Haruno and DBW and shown me we had the numbers. I was clear we didn't have Heal's support and my going assumption was it was the same for the others.

 

[Wayan Vistar]

Talk to a historically unconventional player who I can never read reliably OR the player out for my blood for taking out Whydon?

...you think either one of them would've ever listened to me for any reason?

 

[Blazade]

Then it wasn't a matter of convincing me lol, but a matter of not having the numbers in the first place.

I tried to slide a PM Haruno's way but I got no response and that was about the end of that.

 

[Wayan Vistar]

The events of Groudon tribe demolished any hope I had of getting into a true position of control this game when my Claw allies were sent home. The only one who survived other than myself, Blazade, only did because he was lucky enough to be on the other tribe when PD went on his revenge spree with the help of his fellow CAPs/LCs, with Whydon in on it as well because he was Hilo's old ally.

 

[Wayan Vistar]

Then it wasn't a matter of convincing me lol, but a matter of not having the numbers in the first place.

I tried to slide a PM Haruno's way but I got no response and that was about the end of that.

Precisely why I gave up. We had no numbers, and I wasn't ready to make a scene when nobody else would be by my side through it

 

[Da Letter El]

Oh note I never accused flyhn of not trying

I am just incredibly disappointed in his defense, perspective of the game, and not taking fairly easy steps to be a favorite coming into f3

 

[Da Letter El]

Anyway congrats to the winner of this survivor, Animus Majulous!

 

[Wayan Vistar]

It all comes back to Whydon doesn't it? I was kinda hoping the idol wasn't a lie to get Viper out much earlier. The words I said to Whydon during that week basically gave EVERYTHING away, barring the "I'm voting you" part because the possibility the idol was a lie was still there and if he was lying to my face again he'd have no issue turning on me for something like that. Turns out.. it wasn't a lie. Amazing, except...

Why. Did. He. Not. USE. IT.

I don't want this to be my main argument since I'd be a broken record, but Whydon using that idol would've made my game a LOT better than it does now. Viper would've been gone as early as F11, there would be no idols left in play, and it would've been because of me for being the swing vote. I would've made one of these big plays you wanted to see so much. And Whydon was someone I didn't have as many qualms stabbing as Heal since he was directly responsible for THREE of my original Claw allies going home. I would've had the heart if I had to. Heal I couldn't because we bonded over this game over time. Whydon had the weight of eliminating my original group, ensuring I remained healthily willing to stab him should the time come. Remember, I was still under the impression at the time people were taking things more personally.


Now... can I be faulted for my game being screwed by someone else who was obviously on the chopping block not using an idol? Hate to have to throw someone else under the bus, but seriously i was banking HARD on this. And he DID lie to me again here, because he flat out told me he'd be using the idol. Worst part was, the revenge for lying being sending him screwed me by happening this early. Whydon was needed to challenge Heal. His idol needed to be consumed to ensure he didn't become TOO powerful. Neither of those things happened, and looking at the game from his point of view, unwarranted overconfidence is the only reason I can see for not using it.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

Neither of those things happened, and looking at the game from his point of view, unwarranted overconfidence is the only reason I can see for not using it.

No, unwarranted confidence on Whydon's part is NOT the only reason. The other big reason is that Flyhn chose to believe me over Whydon because of the bond that I initiated. Yes, Whydon was the only real person in the game who had the means, motive, and chance to get me out. But we had a struggle over Flyhn's allegiance, and I won it. And I'm glad I did, I'm glad I befriended Flyhn. Flyhn was just a pawn to Whydon, but he was my friend. He is my friend. And he played a hell of a lot better game than any of you on the jury and the way you have been treating him here is not with the decency that he deserves.

 

[Wayan Vistar]

No, i'd work with you if he could prove he wasn't still lying by playing the idol. Which he didn't do.

The whole scenario was a test, and even IF he passed and stayed in the game, he would no longer have an idol. Because I wouldn't want to work with someone who has an idol for leverage over me.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

Pointless talk

Comparison time.

Heal I couldn't [stab] because we bonded over this game over time. Whydon had the weight of eliminating my original group, ensuring I remained healthily willing to stab him should the time come.

The whole scenario was a test, and even IF [Whydon] passed and stayed in the game, he would no longer have an idol. Because I wouldn't want to work with someone who has an idol for leverage over me.

You couldn't have it both ways. You couldn't be unwilling to stab me and still worked with Whydon. Sure, you might have been able to flip and work with Whydon if he played his idol and stayed, but you still said you were unwilling to stab me, so what happens next?

Anyway, it's getting pointless to discuss all of these hypotheticals and the jury seemingly already went behind magic closed doors and made their decision. I'm glad you were my ally Flyhn, I'm glad you're my friend.

To the jury, in the fleeting time before midnight, I ask you who you want to represent your season. Do you want someone who tried hard, someone who wrestled for control, or someone who tagged along for the ride without ever having any personal interaction with you? Do you want to look back at this and say you got beat by someone who played a good game or do you want to be mad at people who tried/people who tried to win?

Hilomilo Da Letter El PD Whydon Pidge sparktrain Jalmont Haruno Wob Blazade ItzViper482

 

[JALMONT]

At the end of the day, I'm just unimpressed by Heal's attempt to try and balance his image. I know other people don't care about that but I do. If you came out and said, yeah I stabbed people, I played both sides because that's what I had to do to win, then I would've been like "Fair play, you got me, you deserve to win. You took advantage of people at every opportunity you could, and I can't fault you for that." But you're coming off to me as someone who wants to be seen as that loyal, good guy, even that that wasn't your game in the slightest. The final 4 is the perfect advantage of that. You didn't want to "stab" anyone and made a guy who was willing to lose to you at the end most likely go through a tiebreaker just to make it to the end? And then voted him off anyways because ??? I guess you were mad at him or something? How on earth is that a good play? That's either tremendously silly or very cocky.

So in the end I think you made many subpar decisions, many decisions reliant on luck and hope that other people wouldn't realize that you were in fact making those poor decisions. You made assumptions about people and took decisions based off those assumptions. The fact that people don't want to vote heal and that heal won't win unanimously suggests a lot about some of those decisions he took.

-

Just because Flyhn didn't play a flashy game, doesn't mean he didn't play a good one. I mean, did Flyhn actually make any poor decisions? I would argue cutting Mikaav > PD was probably one, given that PD had connections, and Mikaav had nowhere near as many. But beyond that, Flyhn was in a lot of shitty situations that he managed to fight through. I consider that to be strong play. He was the only member from his alliance to survive on Groudon, at a point where his entire alliance was dismantled by staying close to Whydon. Is that not good play?

From 14 -> Flyhn's play was fine. I know DLE was pushing this, and yeah, you could make the case that me/blaz/flyhn should've ditched Heal ASAP right then and there, can you really blame Flyhn for still wanting Whydon out and taking his chances with Heal? After all, this was a guy who had betrayed him already. There was no trust there. The blame lies on me and Blazade.

F7: This was a crucial week for Flyhn/Blazade and Flyhn had the right read on the situation. Would pushing Haruno there done him any good? Definitely not. What reason would Flyhn have to trust haruno, who just voted out his ally previously? He told Blazade, but blazade didn't want to follow through.

F6: Wob wanted Blazade gone - Flyhn knew they had to split up the trio but without wob, they couldn't do that. what could have been done lol

f5/4 - Flyhn can't do anything but win out/cause/hope the 3 self destruct. He can't win out because the 3 are throwing. Yet he somehow makes it to the end. Didn't need a single immunity as a member of the minority alliance essentially the entire time? That is significant in my eyes.

 

[Wayan Vistar]

Though I will admit... it's sad a jury member can justify my play better than I can. Explanations have never been my strongsuit :P

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

Jalmont your description of the viper vote out is entirely inaccurate.

Viper CONSISTENTLY flipped and changed his mind on whether he wanted to win at the game. He asked me to throw to him in ftc, then he said he wanted me to fight honorably against him, then he asked me to throw to him again. He only said he would throw ftc to me at the VERY end and I took this as a sign of desperation, not a sign of honesty. He even came to flyhn and tried to make a backdoor deal with him, asking Flyhn for his vote at final tribal council if he (viper) won the tiebreaker.

And I never shied away from the fact that I played two sides and navigated my way to the end by eliminating people in blindsides. I own that, I've been owning that. But I never did it out of spite, I never tried to burn personal bridges, and there still was a very small pool of people in this game that I was undoubtedly loyal to. I used blindsides to stay in control and I was never content with getting to the end "and hoping someone else screwed up" as Flyhn said.

 

[JALMONT]

Flyhn I actually think you are a really good FFA player in general. You just have some quality that makes you really good at staying alive and toeing the boundary between being a threat and not. Perhaps one weakness is that you sometimes lack a good read on the overall situation/what other people are thinking, but I don't think it's an accident that you tend to survive very long when playing for yourself.

 

[Wayan Vistar]

Pointless talk

Comparison time.
You couldn't have it both ways. You couldn't be unwilling to stab me and still worked with Whydon. Sure, you might have been able to flip and work with Whydon if he played his idol and stayed, but you still said you were unwilling to stab me, so what happens next?

I became unwilling to stab you and started to really bond with you AFTER this point. It was moot at the time Whydon was on the block. Spending more time made me grow closer, which wouldn't have happened with Whydon had I chosen his side because at this point in the game he had blood of most of my allies on his hands already

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

I became unwilling to stab you and started to really bond with you AFTER this point. It was moot at the time Whydon was on the block. Spending more time made me grow closer, which wouldn't have happened with Whydon had I chosen his side because at this point in the game he had blood of most of my allies on his hands already

I initiated a relationship with you day one of the merge, we talked a lot, and you confided in me that you didn't like how Whydon had been treating you and that you didn't want to be his pawn. This happened well before Whydon was voted out, our relationship was already strong before he was voted out. There's no way that you go from being my friend with a sudden poof AFTER Whydon was voted out when there is tons of buildup that inherent is required before you and I get together to vote him out.

Flyhn was my friend this game, and he followed me to the end. There were sometimes he had different ideas than me, but when those ideas would hurt me I was the one in control and stopped his plans.

 

[JALMONT]

TBF to flyhn he actually had a good read on taking Heal to the end, although stating that outright was definitely not the way to go lol.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

In terms of "image balance" no one gets to the end with 100% backstabbing and no one gets to the end with 100% honor and integrity. Asking me to pick one side of a binary that doesn't actually exist is not any way to represent how this game is actually played out and it shows a major flaw in Jalmont's own judgments. At the end of the day it isn't about who backstabbed the most or who was the most honorable, so the jury needs to think instead about who did the most or who achieved the best balance or who wrestled and won control. I achieved a social game that let me win challenges and win the power to decide my own destiny. Blazade says he didn't trust me in the card challenge and yet he still willingly gave me information about his cards instead of withholding it to get me out... There were a few people who didn't trust me in the game but after Whydon was out I was able to tip toe around and make them trust me just enough for me to still have control of the game. My social maneuvering coupled with my challenge skill, both in puzzles and battles, led me to find an idol, help my tribes, and win 6 individual immunity challenges (more than half of what was available since the merge started). My challenge skill and my social game was tied together and I stayed in control as soon as I got it. Now the control is in your hands, the hands of the jury. I may have eliminated many of you and many of you had flaws in your own games but I was able to find those flaws and exploit them before you could exploit my own obvious flaws.

 

[Whydon]

To act like we didn’t have the same intentions with Flyhn in terms of allegiance makes me lose some respect for your game, Heal. Everyone in the game knew how loyal Flyhn was, especially after seeing his performance in the previous survivor game. That was one of the primary reasons that I contacted him, because I hoped that if I forged a powerful relation with him before merge, he’d stay loyal to me the entire game. Which is why I considered myself to be extremely lucky when I got him after the tribe swap. Now, let’s not act like you weren’t trying to play the same game here. We were both trying to achieve the same game which is why we eventually budded heads, and in the end it came over who gained control over Flyhn. Flyhn is a very nice person, and while his loyalty is a big asset to his game, it may also be his downfall, as inevitably his loyalty to his allies in this game allowed for him to be transformed into a pawn by them. I realized this extremely early on, when he kinda just believed mostly everything I told him on our tribe (mind you this was way before the Zorbees stab). Flyhn is a very nice person and I think he is a great human being, but I didn’t necessarily sign up to make friends here. Maybe that was one of my mistakes in the game but I considered it to be a strong asset when needed. Call Flyhn whatever you want - your friend, partner, ally, etc. but everyone on this jury knows that he was your own pawn and that your relationship was never equal. You exploited his loyalty to gain his vote when needed and to ensure you had a connection to other players in the game who didn’t trust you as much. Flyhn’s loyalty is something that we both needed to win this game, and congratulations, you won it. But let’s not act it was ever an equal relationship when it came to game. The jury doesn’t respect Flyhn’s game very much because for a majority of the game he was just someone’s pawn, whether mine or yours. Everyone on this jury knows it, Flyhn knows it, you know it.

Flyhn was my friend this game, and he followed me to the end. There were sometimes he had different ideas than me, but when those ideas would hurt me I was the one in control and stopped his plans.

The thing Heal was successful at was making me seem like this brutal, tyrannical dictator who controlled your ever single move, while he would be a lovin’, benevolent ruler who would listen to you and your ideas. I don’t doubt that you and Heal are friends, I mean obviously you’re hosting Big Brother together. Unfortunately, as tends to be the case in history, the only difference was that one of us had the time to talk to you about things other than the game, something which I simply just did not have the time to do. When you take a closer look, though, you had the same relationship (in terms of the game) with both of us.

And as for why I didn’t use the idol, I was taking a risk that, if successful, would pay off quite possibly with me winning the entire game. If I managed to keep my idol AND get rid of Viper, not only would I gain a numbers majority and have the power of my idol, but Flyhn would be forced to ally with me in that situation because the Heal alliance would have been dismantled from that point on. Note that this is pure speculation and that’s what I hoped would happen, obviously a lot of things have come to light and the above scenario probably wouldn’t have happened but that’s what I thought at the time. I needed to keep my idol as long as possible because being in the minority it was my only leverage I could use against the majority. Unfortunately as we all saw I did not use it when I should have but it was a risk I thought I could take because I thought I had Flyhn on my side.

Horrible move? Obviously. But that was my state of mind during that time.

—

My final piece of advice to the finalists is not to sugarcoat anything. We’re in the jury, we know everything and there’s no way you can trick us into believing something that isn’t true. You bested us in the game, but here we have the power. And believe me when I say that we can see through EVERYTHING that you say, and when you try to be fake and sneaky with us EVEN AT THE FINAL TRIBAL COUNCIL, it makes us lose a LOT of respect for your game.

 

[Blazade]

In terms of "image balance" no one gets to the end with 100% backstabbing and no one gets to the end with 100% honor and integrity. Asking me to pick one side of a binary that doesn't actually exist is not any way to represent how this game is actually played out and it shows a major flaw in Jalmont's own judgments. At the end of the day it isn't about who backstabbed the most or who was the most honorable, so the jury needs to think instead about who did the most or who achieved the best balance or who wrestled and won control. I achieved a social game that let me win challenges and win the power to decide my own destiny. Blazade says he didn't trust me in the card challenge and yet he still willingly gave me information about his cards instead of withholding it to get me out... There were a few people who didn't trust me in the game but after Whydon was out I was able to tip toe around and make them trust me just enough for me to still have control of the game. My social maneuvering coupled with my challenge skill, both in puzzles and battles, led me to find an idol, help my tribes, and win 6 individual immunity challenges (more than half of what was available since the merge started). My challenge skill and my social game was tied together and I stayed in control as soon as I got it. Now the control is in your hands, the hands of the jury. I may have eliminated many of you and many of you had flaws in your own games but I was able to find those flaws and exploit them before you could exploit my own obvious flaws.

I mean this is more spin, there's no way to have a chance at winning the card challenge without help and post Jalmont vote, I pretty much gave up on the idea of reliable help from the other side. Plus you were still acting like you were trying to help me and through challenge dynamics I could see who of DBW/Haruno/animus was giving you info/getting it from you, willing to target each other/me or bid on random numbers that could make the endgame even again.

You also again act like I can make credible decisions when I'm on a butt end of your tight majority alliance having just played its hand against me. It's that little pointless touch, trying to say that your social game was able to manipulate my actions and thoughts when the power dynamics had already put me in a safely nonthreatening position which continues to irk me. It's the idea that because you had decided that you didn't want to work with me in favor of your other friends that suddenly I was the one who wanted to be "carried" by you all along. It's the feeling when a conversation in the game is like a theater; you've got an opinion you want to get out there and you don't want to listen to mine, content to get it on the narrative record that we had a conversation and you won it regardless of the fact that we both know your alliance can take care of me whenever you want to anyway. All this rubbed salt in the wound and made it feel like you didn't just feel content to betray me, but after toying around for weeks on end I could tell you really felt like you were better than me and proud of yourself for being able to manufacture the Big Play of taking down your friends and allies to get ahead, with only the appearance of risk. You took pleasure in making it feel like a betrayal and read like a manipulation when because people were literally willing to throw challenges/the entire game for you it didn't need to go down like that.

I can respect the decision to vote me out, I can even respect a lot of the game you played. But you gotta understand that there are reasons for me not to respect it that don't just boil down to a need to "get good".

 

[Whydon]

Adding on to that, you are quick to label things such as Blazade and Viper’s elimination as “masterminded moves caused by my manipulation and control that I had over them” which is arguably not really the case, yet you refuse to acknowledge your actual manipulation in this game, that being, completely controlling and manipulating Flyhn and Animus (I already went over this in my post). You have a tendency to slap labels on certain moves and relationships, hoping that we will see everything from your eyes. Like I said, we aren’t blind. We see and know everything that has happened in the game. Acknowledge the game you actually played instead of the game you WANT us to believe you played. We’re 100% willing to give you the credit that you deserve but we aren’t just going to hand it to you, you have to tell us why you deserve that credit. It’s the whole point of this last tribal.

 

[Blazade]

And you don't have to worry, Heal, I'm probably gonna vote you anyway. And I know this game you worked hard to build a resume and check your boxes. At this point I'm really just quibbling over philosophy on what it means to play this game.

 

[rssp1]

Alright, time to wrap this up and move on to voting. Jurors, remember you are voting for someone to win, not voting them out as you have been in previous tribals. I'll leave the thread open in case any of the finalists would like to make closing statements, or if any jurors have last minute questions or comments.