Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Suspect]

senorlopez

senorlopez

Formerly Ricardo [old]
weirdo faye said:
na bro lol i think what u guys have is a skill issue/gg(get good), whats the point of saying this&that to justify i dnt wna play cos i cant adapt to the metagame and cant peak as i once did anymore. i am bad with gen9 too and i have no problem admitting to it there is no shame in being bad over a game, its very entertaining to play every now and then for me, i dig fast games my preferred style thru all the time ive played has always been offense, either im doing the ownage or i get owned by other ho but its still fun for me xdd :bloblul:
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So incredibly patronising to dismiss anyone's valid concern of the meta as "skill-issue". So what if they aren't topping the ladder and aren't competing at high level tournaments? Guess what, the vast majority of the playerbase don't meet those requirements. Do we just dismiss all their opinions because you're gatekeeping under the subjective premise of "skill-issue"?

The person above your post whom you shadow replied to (you mentioned peaking the ladder like before when they said they were struggling to adapt to the current meta) was one of the first people to get reqs for GF. At the very least, do some research at who you're slinging "skill-issue" accusations at.
 
weirdo faye

weirdo faye

u are not gamer enough to know what skill issue rly means in this context(it has nothing to do with topping ladder or playing high level competition its the mentality), i never gatekept any1 & i also said i am bad at gen9 too and like i said if that is their genuine thoughts then i am sorry cos its a fair opinion, but u know it i know it theres always people out there that quit cos they dont play as well as they once did that is called weak /skill issue sir

and no idc this is the internet and were bantering over a game research urself thanks
 
DaRotomMachine

DaRotomMachine

I COULD BE BANNED!
YubelVT said:
How it feels to teambuild this generation (I am the car)
View attachment 616647That tank had no suspension I want you to imagine what the crew inside the tank felt when it crashed down like that
There's too much broken shit in the tier and not enough universal checks. This is coming from a gen 7 enjoyer where landorus-t blanket checks most of the tier through sheer versatility. Now the uninformed among us would think that's bad, but you're wrong. Despite the existence of this blanket check, gen 7 has a stupid amount of variety. For example, fucking Shedinja stall is the best form of stall despite the lack of HDB. Now look at gen 9, sure there's variety, but it's like the different kinds of bread at the store. It's all different varieties of the same thing and none of them are 647 bread (low carb). Something needs to be banned, we can all agree on this, but what needs to go is completely different depending on the person. I think the obvious answer is Kingambit (and his electric stepfather Raging Bolt) but that's controversial despite the tier objectively being warped around him to an unhealthy degree.
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THis is so agreeable ngl. This is why I use other People's teams when I play OU.

Edit: yes that is kinda a skill issue on my part
 
658Greninja

658Greninja

is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Soiramio3000 said:
When is the next suspect test?

I know that after we ban a pokemon we usually wait for a week, then have a community survey and then a suspect test based on that survey's results.

What are we doing now that gouging fire dodged the ban hammer?
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If I had to put my hat in the ringer, I’ll guess that once SPL ends, (which is soon cause they’re on the semifinals) there will be a survey.

I am one of the more optimistic players on the site, but saying that the meta has a problem is not a skill issue, when top players also have voiced their concerns. What their concerns are varies between player. Some have stated it’s Kingambit, Rbolt, G-Fire, Volc, or even Ghold.

For me, I think the tier is a ban or two away from a healthy meta. G-Fire imo dodged that ban because players were too focused on addressing the DD Swipe sets that we’ve gotten much better at handling since the suspect started. The classic DD set is more broken. With Tera Dragon Outrage blasting through would-be checks like Dozo, but that’s for another day. I feel a 2nd G-Fire suspect in the future is possible.

Again, we have all the time in the world to figure out what the problem is, like when we figured out Rain was kinda busted with Arch.
 
YubelVT

YubelVT

658Greninja said:
If I had to put my hat in the ringer, I’ll guess that once SPL ends, (which is soon cause they’re on the semifinals) there will be a survey.

I am one of the more optimistic players on the site, but saying that the meta has a problem is not a skill issue, when top players also have voiced their concerns. What their concerns are varies between player. Some have stated it’s Kingambit, Rbolt, G-Fire, Volc, or even Ghold.

For me, I think the tier is a ban or two away from a healthy meta. G-Fire imo dodged that ban because players were too focused on addressing the DD Swipe sets that we’ve gotten much better at handling since the suspect started. The classic DD set is more broken. With Tera Dragon Outrage blasting through would-be checks like Dozo, but that’s for another day. I feel a 2nd G-Fire suspect in the future is possible.

Again, we have all the time in the world to figure out what the problem is, like when we figured out Rain was kinda busted with Arch.
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So I just want to mention that a gouging fire has to pack both dragon stab AND earthquake to break through bulky heatran without the heatran player just getting skill issue'd and letting that gouging go to +6. I'm not sure how common that is considering you also want morning sun and DD. Tera Dragon Outrage seems insane but suddenly that heatran is both walling you and clicking will o wisp at least once. Don't get me wrong gouging fire is very strong, but it also doesn't have mold breaker so it's hard pressed to find the moveslots to break through Heatran. I could also just be completely incorrect and DD GF runs 3 attacks but I thought it's worth mentioning.
 
weirdo faye

weirdo faye

its just incredibly restrictive on teambuilding impossible to account for everything defensively unless u play stall takes some giga brain to figure out good teras to flip matchups on sweepers that own your team, there is definitely a meta problem, u just have ppl letting all the broken stuff run rampant, i just ran 6 broken offensive things on the ladder and swapped the members out accordingly to whichever wasnt performing and tbh i still dont know how to build balance teams just offense and bo :~)

and i also learned volcarona = noob bait, people already gave me hate for saying this that it just up there on vr cos of how threatening it is but its weaker in practise, if u need something to threaten out corviknight/skarm and not be useless vs primarina and pelipper without the right tera, raging bolt is just the better volcarona, maybe in a world where kingambit on every team doesnt exist and ko standard offensive volc from full with sucker without needing tera itd be better, still have to worry about dnite tho

& the skill issue has nothing to do with the actual skill zzz its the mentality
 
YubelVT

YubelVT

weirdo faye said:
its just incredibly restrictive on teambuilding impossible to account for everything defensively unless u play stall takes some giga brain to figure out good teras to flip matchups on sweepers that own your team, there is definitely a meta problem, u just have ppl letting all the broken stuff run rampant, i just ran 6 broken offensive things on the ladder and swapped the members out accordingly to whichever wasnt performing and tbh i still dont know how to build balance teams just offense and bo :~)

and i also learned volcarona = noob bait, people already gave me hate for saying this that it just up there on vr cos of how threatening it is but its weaker in practise, if u need something to threaten out corviknight/skarm and not be useless vs primarina and pelipper without the right tera, raging bolt is just the better volcarona, maybe in a world where kingambit on every team doesnt exist and ko standard offensive volc from full with sucker without needing tera itd be better, still have to worry about dnite tho

& the skill issue has nothing to do with the actual skill zzz its the mentality
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no but like stall can't do it either because I don't think stall has been good this entire generation despite the best efforts of good players. the tier is just too offensive and it has changed my perspective on stall as a whole. I still fucking despise it and will wish it didn't exist but deep down I'm glad that those wishes are just wishes in older generations because it turns out that an entire meta of just offense kinda fuckin sucks
 
weirdo faye

weirdo faye

i just think its a waste of time to be playing stall personally when i can get 2-3 games in the 1 game u play stall, i dont hate stall players just cos they play stall, and yes i know stall cant do it either, i have countless replays of me destroying stall lords with an assortment of roaring moon kingambit gouging fire and raging bolt in 30 turns or less i love playing vs stall actually
 
RainWaiv

RainWaiv

YubelVT said:
no but like stall can't do it either because I don't think stall has been good this entire generation despite the best efforts of good players. the tier is just too offensive and it has changed my perspective on stall as a whole. I still fucking despise it and will wish it didn't exist but deep down I'm glad that those wishes are just wishes in older generations because it turns out that an entire meta of just offense kinda fuckin sucks
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honestly this whole era of competitive singles has been great for stall haters because stall is dogwater in gen 9 and people rarely play stall in old gens (because not playing stall is more fun and that's the only reason you'd play oldgen ladder)
 
Carl_the_turtle

Carl_the_turtle

As someone maining stall since basically the start of the generation, I think it's been viable throughout most of the generation (anywhere past pao/espa bans and disregarding, like, the two seconds magearna or other dumb stuff was legal), but never great or the dominant playstyle (no, zap gking ting cores are not and never will have been stall). It's felt like one of the more consistent ways to play on ladder for me personally, though it might just be me skill issuing at other playstyles. I think it's definitely weaker than in some oldgens, but it has gotten powerful tools this gen like flip alomo, dual unaware, spikes glisc, etc. that manage to give it a decent place in the metagame.
 
RainWaiv

RainWaiv

Captain Marshadow said:
What happened with CTC anyways? I haven't been too active on the forums for the past few weeks due to personal stuff and apparently the guy's account got nuked while I was busy.
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He got REALLY tilted that everyone wanted to ban the unkillable wallbreaker sun abuser (what is it with weather abusers recently?) and said so much stupid shit he got banned only for everyone to vote dnb
 
Magcargo

Magcargo

is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
RainWaiv said:
He got REALLY tilted that everyone wanted to ban the unkillable wallbreaker sun abuser (what is it with weather abusers recently?) and said so much stupid shit he got banned only for everyone to vote dnb
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I think people just naturally shifted to DNB over time. The Breaking Swipe DD set required too many turns to setup in order to truly be busted + had noteworthy counterplay like Lando-T, Garganacl, Skeledirge, various Tera Fairy mons like Bulk Up Great Tusk, Alomomola, Gliscor, etc. and suffered from having unreliable STABs (Flare Blitz inflicts too much Recoil, Heat Crash is just weak af when so many mons like Garg and Great Tusk are heavy, etc). The sun CB set had high reward, but was tied to an incredibly flawed playstyles and winds up being a MU fish vs fatter squads which might not even work against some of the better players (I am not in that camp unfortunately).

CTC made some compelling points but even some of his bigger detractors on the thread winded up voting DNB. Even if I find Gouging Fire's ability to MU fish + STAB Combo + Bulk to be unhealthy, I can't deny that the mon is also flawed and isn't being used over other mons like Volcarona for a reason (worse setup move, arguably requires more support to sweep, provides less to a team, etc).

I think its pretty telling when a player like Finch, who has to my knowledge, voted ban on every prior suspect barring Zamazenta, voted DNB on this one.
 
East Coast Elite

East Coast Elite

Captain Marshadow said:
What happened with CTC anyways? I haven't been too active on the forums for the past few weeks due to personal stuff and apparently the guy's account got nuked while I was busy.
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He was letting out some anger about poor merch sales and posted some very heated treatises on why Gouging Fire shouldn’t be banned that were each around the length of War and Peace when “the meta has adapted” would have sufficed. Happens to the best of us.
 
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