How do you abuse Breaking Swipe if you don’t increase your attack?
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
But have you considered this?
Azumarill @ Leftovers
Level: 100
Bold Nature
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
- Chilling Water
- Rest
- Amnesia/ whirlpool
- Charm
252+ Atk Protosynthesis Tera Fire Gouging Fire Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Azumarill in Sun: 107-127 (26.4 - 31.4%) -- 19.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Probably swords dance over rock tomb, sure, you don't have the ability to boost your speed, but only really corv/skarm/enam are able to resist ground + dragon.
me rolling up with grass tera blast:
I legitimately had the same idea just a few days ago with gouging to deal with dondozo and tusk, which is pretty funny.
Also, some thought on mons I have been using.
1. Iron hands is still pretty good. It doesn't hit the hardest, but it can still tank hits like no tommorow. Really underslept, and I think experimenting with it on different team structures could be good.
2. Payback ting-lu is amazing. I think there was something about it in an earlier post, but payback on lu is essentiall a 100 bp move from an attack stat of 110. It forces people to hard switch to not boost payback damage, which can be abused by ruination to get lots of damage off.
3. Sd, trailblaze cinderace can be pretty good, it can snowball games quite easily as with tera grass, you can not only boost blaze's power to 60 and get stab, but also get a speed boost to outspeed everything in the meta. I initially didn't know why cinder was being used, but I now see why.
hmm, it does hit gouging's usual checks pretty hard… has anyone tried it on a high-level team yet? maybe we can still salvage the suspect by proving gouging can muscle through its checks really easily
Actually,
252+ Atk Tera Grass Gouging Fire Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 174-206 (34.5 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0- SpA Tera Grass Gouging Fire Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dondozo: 230-272 (45.6 - 53.9%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Tera Grass Gouging Fire Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Great Tusk: 162-192 (37.3 - 44.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- SpA Tera Grass Gouging Fire Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 270-320 (62.2 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Even with a - nature, solar beam actually hits harder. Maybe on sun teams, you could use it. This is with 65 sp.Attack btw.
252+ Atk Tera Grass Gouging Fire Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 338-398 (105.2 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0- SpA Tera Grass Gouging Fire Solar Beam vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Primarina: 98-116 (30.5 - 36.1%) -- 42.4% chance to 3HKO
Only really against primarina is the tera blast set better, but prim can be dealt with in other ways.
Something I like about this meta: adaptability.
We keep seeing the tier shifting a lot and I find that no threat stays unreasonable for too long. I am excited for things to slow down a tad eventually, but for now things are going at a breakneck pace and it really rewards proactive building.
We keep seeing the tier shifting a lot and I find that no threat stays unreasonable for too long. I am excited for things to slow down a tad eventually, but for now things are going at a breakneck pace and it really rewards proactive building.
what is bro COOKIN.
but yeah the meta right now is very dynamic and i'm all for it, every week it feels like some new heat gets dropped somewhere and makes it big, and that's a really cool state for the meta to be in after how stagnant dlc1 was.
I agree. Despite teambuilding being a bit difficult and constraining, its arguable there is a lot more variety now than there was in earlier metagames. As Vert said before, Lando-T (despite being heavily nerfed) and Gliscor both being viable in the same metagame is a great sign & there are a lot of structures that are seeing some level of success, featuring lower tier Pokemon no less like Manaphy, Garganacl, Iron Moth, Iron Crown, GWeezing, Ursaluna, Teal Mask Ogerpon, etc. Still, I do think we need at least a couple of bans to make teams a bit more flexible rather than being constrained to the same few choices.
I feel like this is the most expressive meta there is in however long. If you want to do decently well, then there are a ton of offbeat mons you can use. However, at the same time, it feels like if you are not trying to use offbeat mons, then it is really constricting. I think with maybe 1-2 or maybe 3 bans, this could be a really good meta. If I can use stuff like registeel and have it not be a pile of doodoo, then that I think is pretty great.
Also adaptability is nice in this meta:
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tera Normal Gumshoos Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 182-216 (36.1 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
yeah i'm a crawdaunt enjoyer myself
i legitimately might try this on sun band. or not, because if gouging stays i'll probably be focusing on some om or pet mod or something
For some reason I feel like that after the meta settles some random user will top ladder with Pecharunt cheese, then everyone will start using it and the council will call an emergency meeting and quickban Pecharunt for being uncompetitive and too RNG based. There will be this huge relief and then a week later Finch will tell his fellow council members, “what other uncompetitive monsters lie hidden in this meta?!” Then there’s a Muddy Water suspect a week later.
What? All I have foretold will come to pass!!!
What? All I have foretold will come to pass!!!
if pecharunt gets quickbanned i will literally eat my hat. i'll actually buy a hat and physically eat it and post proof. this post is legally binding
I'm actually kinda suprised that stuff like sand attack and muddy water are still legal. They have accuracy lowering effects, and while you can switch out, that still doesn't really give me much confidence they should be legal.
Anyways, check out this dick set to piss off your opponents.
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mud-Slap
- Muddy Water
- Sand Attack
- Sandstorm
Three accuracy lowering moves, with muddy water even 4hit ko'ing gliscor after poison heal.
i'm mad at that set already and no one has even run it yet
Cheryl.
Celesteela is Life
My question now is: with all of the controversial elements existing in the tier like Kyurem and Gouging who have been debated heavily about but will likely not be banned (unfortunately).... is there anything in the tier that the community (not just the minority that puts Kingambit at a 5... me lol) would agree to be banworthy?
Short answer:
Long answer: There isn't any consensus on what is broken due to the threat saturation in the tier. This means that a lot of people think that different things are the most problematic. For example, you have people saying that raging bolt is the most broken thing in the tier, while others say that it is alright and shouldn't be banned. This will most likely lead to borderline things staying in the tier and thus making the metagame worse. I really, really hope that I am wrong, I just want this meta to be better by whatever means necessary.
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From even a neutral game design standpoint, Gouging Douche is something that should be an Uber. The combination of bulk greater than Skarmory without the special defense weakness, raw power greater than anything we have seen since Chi-Yu, Photosynthesis, healing, the typing, and Dragon Dance should be laughably uncompetitive. And we all thought so until recently, where apparently enough top players think we can check it now? And I'm not posting this to say they are right or wrong. It's just strange as a development that something like this is considered acceptable now. GF was seen as a slam dunk ban. If we can't ban this, what can we ban?
The community seemingly decided the best route to fix the meta that wasn't well liked in the latest survey was to ban some of the biggest threats. It seems there isn't enough agreement among the top players to do that. We won't touch Tera. What else is there? Spikes maybe? Do people even feel that way anymore? Should we just hand over decisions to CTC now? Like where do we go from here that isn't nowhere?
The community seemingly decided the best route to fix the meta that wasn't well liked in the latest survey was to ban some of the biggest threats. It seems there isn't enough agreement among the top players to do that. We won't touch Tera. What else is there? Spikes maybe? Do people even feel that way anymore? Should we just hand over decisions to CTC now? Like where do we go from here that isn't nowhere?
Simply put nothing. If GF doesn't seriously go thru as a ban I think I'll be shelving this gen's OU despite enjoying the majority of mons available. Less of a refusal to adapt or learn to counter (trust me I have to very thoroughly account for this bastard), but more it constricts the meta so bad that trying to account for it and everything else is simply unfun.
Okay, I made a post about how solar beam gouging does more damage to tusk/dondozo than tera blast grass, and when I tried to create a team in showdown, I found out it doesn't get solar beam. I thought it just would because it is a fire type, which most fire types do get it. Entei, the mon its based on gets it, but not the past paradox version of it?????
My day is ruined and my disappointment is immesurable.
My day is ruined and my disappointment is immesurable.
So I have been meaning to say this for a while now, but I could genuinely see Weavile becoming broken because of tera, because 3 hit axel with tera ice is bonkers. To put in perspective how bonkers, a fully ev trained Lugia with multiscale with defense and hp evs dies to two three hit triple axels which can be achieved easily if you are running loaded dice to ensure the 3 hits. This truly shows how difficult switching into axel Weavile this gen really is. These are calcs SS OU king Weavile only dreamed of. Just know when a Weavile hits tera ice, you are never walling it.
Weav was considered the best pokemon in SS for a reason and Tera genuinely might have broken it.
Guess we shall see what the future holds for Weavile. We are truly Weavback with a vengeance Weavbros!
Weav was considered the best pokemon in SS for a reason and Tera genuinely might have broken it.
Guess we shall see what the future holds for Weavile. We are truly Weavback with a vengeance Weavbros!
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Loaded Dice leaves you with a 10% chance to miss. If Axel is your only multi-hit move, Wide Lens would be better, with only a ~3% chance to miss on the full 3 hits.
Correct this generation of OU has sucked since home dropped. We can want to make it better but the fact that banning 4-5 broken pokemon is deemed unrealistic is a likely indicator that this gen of OU won't get better until legacy players come to the conclusions we've been having years from now
So we all know about the hazard meta in OU. Should anything be done about the meta? If so, what should be done?
A: Do not do anything
B: Ban stealth rocks
C: Ban spikes
D: Ban Gholdengo
E: Ban all hazards
In my opinion, I would choose C or D. I think E is too extreme and can lead to boring pivotspam teams, and we have to acknowledge that hazards are keeping stuff in check. Maybe B could work but I like C and D more.
For C, spikes are one of the reasons why bootspam exists. It’s so easy to maintain them and can easily add up, so even mons like tusk commonly run boots because of how good spikes are. If there is only rocks (and tspikes) we aren’t forced to put boots on almost every defensive mon in our teams.
I also like D. In S/S, spikes were not that crazy since you can easily defog, with no reliable way of preventing it, and there is still rapid spin. While we cannot say for certain that the only reason hazards are oppressive this generation is due to Gholdengo, because there are things such as increased hazard distribution, Gholdengo is one of the major factors. If it gets banned, maybe we can see what happens.
Let me know your thoughts!
A: Do not do anything
B: Ban stealth rocks
C: Ban spikes
D: Ban Gholdengo
E: Ban all hazards
In my opinion, I would choose C or D. I think E is too extreme and can lead to boring pivotspam teams, and we have to acknowledge that hazards are keeping stuff in check. Maybe B could work but I like C and D more.
For C, spikes are one of the reasons why bootspam exists. It’s so easy to maintain them and can easily add up, so even mons like tusk commonly run boots because of how good spikes are. If there is only rocks (and tspikes) we aren’t forced to put boots on almost every defensive mon in our teams.
I also like D. In S/S, spikes were not that crazy since you can easily defog, with no reliable way of preventing it, and there is still rapid spin. While we cannot say for certain that the only reason hazards are oppressive this generation is due to Gholdengo, because there are things such as increased hazard distribution, Gholdengo is one of the major factors. If it gets banned, maybe we can see what happens.
Let me know your thoughts!
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