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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
I'd like to give a formal apology to Gholdengo. Covert Cloak Ghold is still the truth even after all this time, holding the tier together against other mons like Crunch Zama, Garg, + stopping Nuzzle Hat which is an otherwise annoying mon. The first two are all the rage rn from what I'm seeing based on other ppl's VRs and SPL. Pair CC Ghold with Lando-T and that POS Zama will never give you trouble again!
Mon is still overrated IMO (overall more difficult to slot in than Gking / Pult / King) but with the Dog's recent dominance, its place in the metagame can't be denied, esp on BO. On balance, it feels more awkward to slot in, but eh, probably a personal issue.
I am seeing more calls to suspect Zama lately from higher level players, which I am worried about. I understand its SPL WR is high, but Zama is a mon I feel we need in the metagame to curb the otherwise brainless HO teams we are seeing. We can't keep getting rid of our Gambit checks!
Mon is still overrated IMO (overall more difficult to slot in than Gking / Pult / King) but with the Dog's recent dominance, its place in the metagame can't be denied, esp on BO. On balance, it feels more awkward to slot in, but eh, probably a personal issue.
I am seeing more calls to suspect Zama lately from higher level players, which I am worried about. I understand its SPL WR is high, but Zama is a mon I feel we need in the metagame to curb the otherwise brainless HO teams we are seeing. We can't keep getting rid of our Gambit checks!
hmm. i can't recall seeing any recent uptick in "suspect/ban zama" conversation but that is worrying if it's happening. it's a strong mon and a top-tier threat, yes, but i haven't really ever considered it problematic—most teams i can see have an answer or two for it that are good independently of checking it—and it's basically keeping half the tier in the tier by itself
on the other hand, a lot of "this would be broken without zama" mons are already broken in my eyes and a zama ban would likely mean action on them, and it would be a slap in the face to the "unban box legendaries" people, so i wouldn't exactly be devastated to see it go
I'd go as far as saying if Zama is banned then Ogerpon-Wellspring, Kingambit, and Roaring Moon might all go in succession in no particular order. Zama holds the meta together, and if it goes, I believe a lot of HO players would be upset with losing some of their best tools soon after that.
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you're making this sound really tempting
Let me make something as clear as humanly possible: entertaining quickbans in this metagame would be the single worst thing we could possibly do.
Quickbans are only intended to be done when a suspect would clearly result in a ban, it is a clear, single thing ruining the tier, and there is overwhelming support present within the council.
Abusing quickbans for agenda pushing is absolutely unacceptable and should never be entertained.
It is very obviously not the time to quickban anything with the results of current suspects kept in mind as well as the lack of consensus surrounding any singular threat. This is why being patient is more important than making foolish proposals.
Yeah I should probably just wait and see what happens at this point. Quickbans as you said should only be used when pokemon hit that threshold of being busted enough to need immediate action. My previous response was a little short sighted and hasty and I wasn't thinking clearly. I guess I should just wait and see because as you said these proposals are foolish.
Anyway I feel as if Roaring Moon is gonna be the easiest pokemon for people to agree on getting out of here as it's scored consistently high ish on a lot of surveys, so I am going to guess it might be the next suspect if those numbers stay high
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The upcoming survey should determine what gets suspected next, Roaring Moon is my guess
The next survey is weeks away, so it's not coming all that soon. I'm more inclined to believe the OU Council might suspect something else before the next survey than there being a guaranteed suspect after the next survey.
There’s no way a suspect would end in a ban right now.
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I agree with that. Ogerpon-Wellspring is probably the only Pokemon that has enough support for a suspect test, but offense players decide most of the bans this generation, and offense is Ogerpon-Wellspring's worst match-up, so it's unlikely to get banned.
should the kokoloko method be surveyed again? it feels like the timing is right for it since there's a lot of agreement on the tier needing something done, but very little on what the something is. it would be a reasonable medium-term plan (and one that doesn't involve unbanning lugia or solgaleo or whoever the hell people are theorymonning this week) provided the public support is there
I'd say wait for the next suspect test, and if that doesn't result in a ban, then that is when we start panicking and maybe (big maybe) start looking at stuff like kokoloko. It's only been one two no-bans since DLC2 dropped, those being kyurem and gouging fire, which are separated by the arch ban. If something else does not get banned, then that's cause for concern. I think people should calm down a bit, the metagame while not the best, isn't the absolute worst thing in the world, it has its fair share of problems, like too much threat diversity, but it has also has its good things such as a lot of diversity....
Wait
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No. Kokoloko is meant to very quickly bring order to chaos, and we don't have chaos, nor is there any big rush - this is our metagame for at least a year, and maybe more if Nintendo decides they want to line the next generation up with Pokemon's anniversary.
For April Fools it sounds interesting. Everyone knows it will only last one day and will give a different perspective on this topic.
two things:
- kokoloko being "meant" for something doesn't mean it isn't useful for other purposes. eliminating threat saturation in a broken-checks-broken meta is a perfectly valid use case for the method, even though it wasn't one of the original reasons it was created
- gouging fire went from a low-key problem to a potential quickban to a landslide dnb vote in about a week. at one point a pokemon went from fine to unacceptable over the course of a suspect test for something else. you mean to tell me this isn't chaos? or that this is an acceptable state for the meta?
- this isn't actually two things
What would even be in a kokoloko right now anyways? Just ban a bunch of offensive mons like gambit, bolt, and gouging? We're out a bunch of very reliable offensive mons while defensive teams and hard stall remain completely unaffected while balanced for this outrageous power level and we have another dlc1 gliscor situation. Throw gliscor in there too then? Maybe a few other defensive mons? Now we have the exact same meta as before except it's with old OU mons instead of the new ones. All we can do at this point is accept that the game has been powercrept to shit, grow a pair, and enjoy this nonsensical meta for the next year and a half because we all know gen 10 is gonna be worse than this.
Cheryl.
Celesteela is Life
Nah for April's Fools the play is to do an ORAS Gira-O suspect and finally give the Lugia lovers their mon for the day...
nah, they're going to ban the players from ou instead of the mons and we'll only be allowed to play ubers for the day
I honestly am thinking of playing ubers right now more than OU (I will still play OU somewhat) because despite the fact that they do have there own problems (looking at you last respects and miriadon), at the very least I know things are going to be broken because that is the definition of the tier.
In terms of other metagames UU is legitimately fun albeit hazard heavy due to lack of reliable hazard removal (pretty much just brambleghast, mandibuzz and kinda quaq). And since all the good mons are in OU there aren't any glaringly overpowered mons or anything that can't be reliably checked with other common mons.
i mean that's about as much as we have here in ou. we have tusk, glimm if you're lucky, and cinderace but only once. people say we have more but treads is fake, hatt isn't actual removal, corv is corv, and tork can't actually switch into hazards because if you're not running heat rock you're not running a real pokemon
Treads is ... alright. Most of the time, I will not use it, but when I do it's alright. Being an amazing check to raging bolt is always nice, while helping with other threats temporarily such as kyurem and gouging. I don't think it's an OU calibre mon, but it isn't bad. It's just that tusk is better in getting a spin off, despite the slower speed.
Zama is a clown. People are catching on!!
If you like playing HO, Zama needs to go! Say it with me now- if you like HO, Zama needs to go!!
the booster valiant/double dance latias in question: