Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Suspect]

We’re nearing the end of March and this year’s SPL is coming to a close. With this in mind, let me bring up some notable sets and trends that I found cool. Plus this is a good time to highlight some underrated sets/mons.

View attachment 617698
Alomomola (Alomomola) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Scald
- Flip Turn
- Wish
- Protect

This isn’t a new idea, but it does see more frequent play. Generally with Pokemon with over 150+ HP, maxing out HP isn’t necessary since bulk is the HP and defense stats multiplied. So since your HP is so massive even without much investment, its best to focus on maxing out the other stats. The SpD investment allows Mola to avoid 2HKOs from Ghold’s Sball, Darkrai Dpulse, and Enam Moonblast while it doesn’t sacrifice the bulk needed to be good at tanking physical hits.

View attachment 617700
Cinderace (Cinderace) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Gunk Shot/Low Kick
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn/Low Kick

As valuable as Cinderace is for hazard control, AoA Libero sets deserve to be explored. STAB Pyro trucks a lot of neutral targets, and even some frailer resists like Dragapult. The standard offensive sets are locked to running Pyro/U-Turn/Court which leaves you with an awkward 4th slot for either Sucker, Gunk, or Low Kick. Instead you forgo Court Change to run Sucker and Coverage. Gunk Shot hits a ton of neutral targets and lands a surprise KO on Primarina. Gunk also lets you punish Tera Fairy, a very common defensive Tera on stuff like Garg and Dirge. Low Kick 2HKOs Garg and OHKOs Tran on the switch. Sucker can catch some mons slipping like Dragapult, Volcarona, and Tera Flying Moon. Even in the matchups where Cinderace can’t break something open like Garg, Dirge, or Mola Balance, U-Turn invites in the mons that do exploit these cores like Kyurem or Wogrepon. Its a banger set that role compresses pivoting, breaking, and speed control.

View attachment 617702
Darkrai @ Heavy-Duty Boots/Leftovers/Focus Sash/Lum Berry/Choice Scarf/Expert Belt/Life Orb/Custap Berry
Ability: Bad Dreams
Tera Type: Poison/Fairy/Electric/Ghost/Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
- Ice Beam/Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast/Nasty Plot/Knock Off/Will-O-Wisp/Thunder Wave/Trick

Darkrai has beat the mid allegations after the Sleep ban, solidifying itself as a wallbreaker with great coverage, good speed tier, and several options to mess around with. Wisp and T-Wave let it act as a budget Dragapult. Scarf sets outpace Val and Moon while remaining good into Balance with Trick. Knock Off is nasty against Stall since Sludge Bomb smacks Clef, Gliscor drops to Ice Beam, and Skarm can’t eat a special hit to save its life. The bread n’ butters though are Nasty Plot and AoA. As you can see, Rai runs a shitton of different items. We’ve seen Boots Rai to be the ultimate anti-Webs soldier, Lefties for passive recovery and to punish pivoting, Lum to punish Gliscor for staying in and avoid getting T-Wave’d by Pult, Lead Rai with Sash to dent the opposing team early, LO is an option for that extra power boost, but E-Belt is a better for what you want to hit anyways, and Custap for landing cheeky, surprise KOs. Considering Darkrai’s movepool is wider than the country of Russia, I’m interested in seeing what developments pop up in the coming months.

View attachment 617704
Deoxys-Speed (Deoxys-Speed) @ Eject Pack
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 100 Def / 24 SpA / 56 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Taunt/Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock

(56 Spe Timid outpaces Booster Tusk. 76 Atk with Tera Fighting ensures an OHKO on Gambit and Samurott after rocks. I forgot what the SpA EVs are for, and the rest is dumped into Def)

Eject Pack Deo-S is a neat concept put into practice during SPL. The main idea is simple. Get up rocks, then you click Psycho or Superpower to pivot out for early momentum. We’ve seen this paired often with Teal Mask Ogerpon because Deo-S copes for the days of more than one Defogger in the tier and SO is too OP for Deogambit to become a thing. Deo-S is difficult to build around due to its awkward typing, but it puts in work if you can find a way to make use of Deo-S Jack-of-All-Trades nature.

View attachment 617706
Dragonite (Dragonite) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 48 SpA / 208 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Hurricane
- Fire Punch/Earthquake

While the Standard Dnite set is a true bread n’ butter that has stood the test of time, it can struggle with such as Zama and bulky Tusk variants. Hurricane is a reminder that yes, Dnite has 100 SpA, yes it’s a Flying type. Send it out earlier than usual, and if they bring in Zama or Tusk…

48 SpA Dragonite Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 222-264 (57.2 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

48 SpA Dragonite Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 414-488 (95.3 - 112.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

This also does a sizable chunk to Dozo, letting you force a Rest and potentially 1v1 it with luck.

48 SpA Dragonite Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dondozo: 177-208 (35.1 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The final slot can either be dedicated to EQ for Garg, Tran, Cinder, and Gking or Fire Punch for Balloon Ghold and Skarm. The lack of Ice Spinner means Gliscor can 1v1 this, but Gliscor will not stay in on a +1 Dnite to risk the potential of Ice Spinner. Hurricane Dnite also opens up other wincons like Kingambit.

View attachment 617709
Garganacl @ Leftovers/Heavy-Duty-Boots
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Water/Fairy/Grass/Ghost/Dragon/Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock/Curse
- Salt Cure
- Recover
- Protect/Earthquake

The Salt Rock has exploded in popularity by doing the exact same thing its been doing since Pre-Home. Blanket-checks half the tier and is the best Hex Pult switch-in while chipping everything with Salt Cure. Garg can 6-0 unprepared teams with Curse and the right Tera. If it doesn’t rise in April, I’ll be completely shocked.

View attachment 617711
Gholdengo (Gholdengo) @ Air Balloon/Covert Cloak/Rocky Helmet
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex/Shadow Ball
- Make It Rain/Nasty Plot/Focus Blast
- Thunder Wave
- Recover

T-Wave Ghold has been a thing for about a year now, but it has more merit in this meta for crippling common Ghold checks like Volc, G-Fire, and Gambit. The issue running it is you have to decide on giving up Nasty Plot or a secondary attacking move.

View attachment 617717
Glimmora (Glimmora) @ Red Card
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Ghost/Flying
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock/Spikes
- Mud Shot
- Power Gem
- Mortal Spin

We’ve hit a Glimmora renaissance this month with options like Power Herb M-Beam, Balloon, and the set you’re seeing here being explored, Red Card. Red Card has seen increased usage due to the aggressive nature of the metagame. Prevent early setup or force them to waste their Booster Energy. Red Card goes from underrated to cracked with hazard setters like Ting-Lu who uses Red Card to rack up hazard chip and use its gargantuan bulk to stop premature sweeps. Glimm gets some nasty milage from Red Card since in conjunction with Toxic Debris, Glimm can poison a random mon. Shout outs to Adamant Nature for putting this set to work in their RMT to reach the 1900s.

View attachment 617718
BU Taunt Tusk (Great Tusk) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Poison/Fairy/Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Headlong Rush
- Ice Spinner
- Taunt/Roar

Super underrated set. In response to Ironpress Zama, Tusk has been running Tera Poison to 1v1 it. In response to that, Zama has started running Roar, but Booster Tusk has other underrated options to mess with for the 4th slot. Taunt allows you to shut down both Iron Defense and Roar while 1v1ing Gliscor without Terastilizing. Taunt also shuts down opposing setup, letting it run other Teras like Tera Fairy to 1v1 Swipe G-Fire and Tera Fire to block Wisp. Roar has a similar function to Taunt but it does a couple things such as force hazard chip, 1v1 opposing Booster Tusk, and punish plays like hard switching to Valiant to get off an Encore. Its a cool alternative if Rapid Spin is unnecessary and CC isn’t needed.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2081587084

(Taunt BU Tusk violating a whole HO team by itself. Truly a work of art.)

View attachment 617719
Hatterene (Hatterene) (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Water/Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 76 SpA / 120 SpD / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
- Mystical Fire/Psychic Noise
- Draining Kiss
- Psyshock
- Nuzzle

Credits go to njnp and Srn for cooking AV Hatt. An absolutely goated set. I often feel Hatt lacks the ability to actually switch into hits that aren’t from passive mons like Skarm, but AV fixes that issue.

On faster paced teams, it provides solid role compression. Sponge special hits, spread Para, block hazards, and break some holes.

It legit 1v1s and trades with most of the tier like Kyurem, QD Volc, Rai, CM Tera Poison Prim, Tusk, Samu, Wake, Glimm, Hex Pult, Glowking, Weavile, Zama, opposing Hatt, Zapdos, Deo-S, Valiant, etc.

It even lives offensive Ghold’s MiR after rocks.

252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Assault Vest Hatterene: 234-276 (73.5 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

You can slap this on any BO, Terrain, HO, or Sun team and get some great milage off it.

If the Ghold or Corv matchup doesn’t concern you, Psychic Noise allows you to smack even more shit like Garg, Dirge, Clef, Gliscor, and Lando. Tera Water 1v1s Ghold and switches into Wake, but Tera Flying hardwalls Knock-less Gliscor and 1v1s Ting-Lu.

Easily my favorite Hatt set and I’d love to see the Hatt meta evolve past Calm Mind and Healing Wish.

With Fast Taunt Lando, you can ensure that hazards don’t go up.

View attachment 617720
Iron Crown (Iron Crown) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Tachyon Cutter
- Psychic Noise/Future Sight
- Focus Blast
- Volt Switch

Continuing the discussion of Assault Vest Psychics, Iron Crown has seen usage as a specially bulky pivot on BO teams as an alternative to Gking. Being a Steel type that outspeeds Kyurem, it has been a valuable check that can switch in and one-shot with Tachyon Cutter. You’ve might’ve seen the Lando/Prim/Crown BO teams flying around either in tournament replays or games. It’s another innovation BO builds have been embarking on to continue being relevant in this fast-developing meta.

View attachment 617721
Iron Jugulis @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Hurricane
- Taunt
- Earth Power

Jugulis is a pretty fun/underrated mon to mess around with. It’s a niche anti-lead that can deny rocks from Deo-S, Treads, Lando, and Glimm while potentially 1v1ing Sash Pult. Jugulis functions as a decent stallbreaker, being able to blank Gliscor, Ting-Lu, and Clodsire with Taunt. It’s strong enough to 2HKO physically defensive Clef with Hurricane, helped by the fact it lives a Moonblast. Tera Ground can surprise Raging Bolt and Gambit with STAB EP while blanking T-Wave.

View attachment 617722
Iron Valiant (Iron Valiant) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Vacuum Wave

Pdt brought in an off-the-walls Val set in this game, this time with SpA Booster. While it does worse vs offense even with Vacuum Wave, Moonblast hits targets like Clef and Gliscor even harder while +1 Tera Ghost Shadow Ball one-shots Gking outright. We’ve also seen other Val sets like Choice Specs from players like Storm Zone and LO Mixed.

View attachment 617723
Kyurem (Kyurem) @ Leftovers/Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 56 HP / 64 Def / 196 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power

(192 Spe outspeeds Tusk. 56 HP to sub up on Blissey. The defense EVs let you dodge an OHKO from Moon’s +1 Knock, tho Tera Flying will kill.)

You can ruin alot of Balances with this set. Been running Sub-Tect on a Stall team as an Anti-Balance measure that can also do some sorcery vs offensive builds before dying. Tera Steel lets you Sub on Clef, Garg, and Gking while you fish for freezes and Sub-Tect + Pressure lets you drain out PP early which is huge for these classic Dozo/Bliss/Glis/Clod/Mola builds vs Balance and opposing Stall.

View attachment 617726
Landorus-Therian (Landorus-Therian) @ Rocky Helmet/Leftovers/Focus Sash/Eject Button/Red Card
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Taunt

Rock Tomb Lando is decade old tech digged up recently. Rock Tomb has applications such as slowing down Booster mons, hitting Volc, and hitting Flyers. I am interested in seeing if sets like Scarf or offensive variants will resurface in the future.

View attachment 617727
Latios (Latios) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic Noise
- Aura Sphere
- Recover

As cool and shiny the newly-buffed Luster Purge is, the 8 PP makes the move easy to play around, however Psychic Noise has double the PP, plus it prevents checks like Ghold and Garg from clicking Recover, helping it in its niche as a Spikes immune Wallbreaker. It also hits through Sub which can clutch out certain matchups. Tera Steel in particular shuts down Kyurem, Toxic from Gliscor, bounces back Fairy moves, and hardwalls HLR + Spinner Tusk. Modest is for the extra power boost and even with less speed, it still outruns Kyurem. Latios is hard to fit because of competition from other Dragons, but I appreciate Latios’ traits.

View attachment 617728
Ogerpon-Cornerstone (Ogerpon-Cornerstone) (F) @ Cornerstone Mask
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Ivy Cudgel
- Knock Off/Horn Leech/Power Whip
- Encore/Taunt

Ogerpon has a built in Sturdy + the combination of Knock and Encore with Spikes. A couple players have made use of this set like Storm Zone. Rockpon is the third fastest Spike setter in the tier (Greninja isn’t real) and it scares common hazard control with Rock + Grass STAB. The other Ogres have been seeing usage outside of Wogre and I am curious if they will rise to OU in the future.

View attachment 617729
Primarina (Primarina) @ Leftovers/Custap Berry
Ability: Liquid Voice
Tera Type: Fairy/Steel/Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 48 SpA / 208 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic Noise
- Moonblast/Draining Kiss
- Encore

(208 Speed Timid outruns Jolly Kingambit and 0 speed Gliscor)

This set Encores vs Gambit and also opposing Primarina. You also outrun defensive Ghold, Tran, and opposing base 60s.

View attachment 617730
Ribombee @ Focus Sash
Ability: Shield Dust
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Moonblast
- Stun Spore
- Skill Swap

Webs deserves a mention here as it’s been seeing higher usage in high level play in response to increased HO usage and decreased Boots Spam Balance. DLC2 also gifted the archetype several strong abusers such as Rbolt, G-Fire, Serperior, along with pre-existing abusers such as Booster Atk Tusk and Ogerpon. I am interested in seeing if Webs will continue to see use or drop as players start preparing for it. Webs generally has been having an up and down streak since DLC1.

View attachment 617734
Roaring Moon @ Lum Berry
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Tera Blast

I do not know who came up with the concept first, but Finch used this early in SPL but I’ve been using it myself on Sun and this shit cooks. Lum punishes status from Wisp Tran, Pult, Clef, Gliscor, Clod, Mola, Zapdos, etc. As stated by Finch, Tera Fairy Blast rounds out the Dark/Ground coverage by hitting Ting-Lu, Ghold, Tusk, Kyu, and Zama. Exactly what Acro covers, but it keeps your Dark resistance and you gain a neutrality to Ice. A lot of players will expect CB Moon and get bamboozled by the Tera Fairy. It does mean you need to preserve Tera while using it on Sun, but Sun generally banks on one Tera abuser a game anyways.

View attachment 617731
Samurott-Hisui (Samurott-Hisui) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Dark/Water
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Aqua Cutter/Razor Shell
- Knock Off/Sacred Sword
- Aqua Jet

(180 Speed EVs to outrun Raging Bolt)

CB Samu is a cool set as it has 0 safe switch ins. Ceaseless goes from spammable to spammable and dangerous. Even some bulky resists like Clef and Kingambit are 3HKOd by Tera Dark Ceaseless. Mola and Skarm are 2HKOd. Zama is 2HKOd by Aqua Cutter after it loses the Dauntless Shield boost, Tusk dies to Water STAB too, Dozo gets Knock’d and worn by Spikes. It can outright 6-0 Stalls lacking Clef, and even then, one Aqua Cutter puts it in range of Tera Dark Ceaseless. On top of this, you’re getting Spikes up and you have priority Aqua Jet. I do enjoy the increased usage Samu is getting, despite competition from Wogre.

View attachment 617732
Tinkaton (Tinkaton) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Pickpocket
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Encore
- Gigaton Hammer
- Knock Off/Thunder Wave/Stealth Rock
- Ice Hammer/Thunder Wave

Tinkaton’s defensive typing and speed matches up well with a good chunk of the metagame. While Mold Breaker + its great utility pool has given it a small niche in each metagame, Balloon synergizes well with its other ability Pickpocket. Stealing Lefties, Helmet, and more deviously, Boots. This set ruins Weavile, Meow, and other fast Boots spammers. Thus freeing up a slot to run T-Wave or Rocks over Knock. It’s seen a slight bit of usage in tours and on high ladder.

View attachment 617733
Volcanion @ Custap Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Endure/Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt

(176 Spe outpaces Jolly Gambit and other mons speed creeping it.)

This was a cool set brought by Gilbert arenas. Custap Berry has seen increased usage overall to pick up surprise KOs which started with Custap CM Prim. Gilbert however decided to spice it up with Endure to ensure the berry actives. Unfortunately it didn’t get to be used due to Gambit cleaning up the game it was in, however its awesome to see Custap usage after 90% of the items used in modern gens have been Boots, Lefties, Choice items, Helmet, or Lum.

If I’ve forgot any sets or if you have some you wanna share, feel free to do so. I find that the OU discussion thread rarely talks about meta developments or innovations. (Morkal where are you?)

Either it’s “we gotta ban X” or a shitpost or the thread gets derailed by an unban Lugia campaign.

While I think the meta still has issues to be addressed, this tier is starting to grow on me. Probably the best state SV OU has ever been in.

Every archetype in the tier is viable and consistent because there are defensive and offensive cores that help with several matchups, along with highly splashable mons like Zama, Gambit, Pult, and Lando that fill multiple roles on a team. We got here due to the bridge crashing down, among the countless bans just to get here.

Gen 9 feels like a hybrid of Gen 4’s lead centric meta, Gen 7’s chaotic but fun offensive meta, and Gen 3’s creative meta. I’ve been having an enjoyable time laddering, building teams, and testing them. Not every one feels the same and that’s fine.

Have a good day/evening, and if you’re in school, finish your homework.
Adding on to this, one thing I am interested in is taunt corv. It sits on many ground types completely and can probably do more things I can't think of. I haven't used it myself but in theory it should be great.
Also, I've used both scarf kyurem (which was also used in SPL, but I didn't know that when I was testing it lmao) and specs Darkrai and both are great sets.
 
I have a question. What holds Psychic Terrain back in OU? It’s extremely potent in CAP. I want to share this set that Amamama uses to great effect, which can be nearly unstoppable with Hatterene as a hazard blocker and Eject Button pivoter:

Armarouge @ Focus Sash / Psychic Seed
Ability: Weak Armor
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Armor Cannon
- Expanding Force
- Calm Mind
- Endure

Focus Sash allows a Calm Mind or Psychic Seec aids setup. Endure then allows Armarouge to outspeed the entire meta and revenge-kill-proof it thanks to Psychic Terrain. It punishing multi-hit moves the most. Expanding Force is OP in Psychic Terrain, and Armor Cannon is STAB.
 
Last edited:
brother brave bird zapdos does worse than normal zapdos at dealing with tusk
Probably, the main thing is that you don't have a miss chance, which is my main thinking of using bb Zapdos.
I doubt it's going to be great, but I think it's worth a shot. It's a flying type that skarm and corv do not want to switch into.
0 Atk Zapdos Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Great Tusk: 146-174 (33.6 - 40%) -- 25.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Last edited:
I'm going to be trying out some more off meta sets, which includes brave bird Zapdos(to deal with tusk) and taunt corv. Wish me luck.
if you really wanna try and put your offmeta taunt teambuilding to the test use sd + taunt gliscor, in theory it might be able to deal with stall but i got no idea how good it is in actual practice but not sure
 
if you really wanna try and put your offmeta taunt teambuilding to the test use sd + taunt gliscor, in theory it might be able to deal with stall but i got no idea how good it is in actual practice but not sure
Interesting idea, the main thing is dondozo, which would hard wall it mostly. Cause it commonly runs waterfall or avalanche on stall, that would be difficult for gliscor to deal with. I could see it working with something like banded meow to decimate a stall team (specifically with thunder punch over U-turn to destroy corv/skarm).
Also 4mss, as you have protect, taunt, SD. This leaves only one moveslot for damage though, so you might have to drop protect which would be problematic.
 
Interesting idea, the main thing is dondozo, which would hard wall it mostly. Cause it commonly runs waterfall or avalanche on stall, that would be difficult for gliscor to deal with. I could see it working with something like banded meow to decimate a stall team (specifically with thunder punch over U-turn to destroy corv/skarm).
could be cooking .. But then again if you need to run 2 mainly stall breakers youre sacrificing another member already, i have had this idea for a while though because i remember when i was first getting into actual competitive sd + taunt gliscor from gen 5 was one of the first results when searching up "stallbreakers pokemon"
 
could be cooking .. But then again if you need to run 2 mainly stall breakers youre sacrificing another member already, i have had this idea for a while though because i remember when i was first getting into actual competitive sd + taunt gliscor from gen 5 was one of the first results when searching up "stallbreakers pokemon"
Maybe you have something like boots raging bolt? That would be less of a stall breaker, but still help with dondozo. You can switch in on dozo that tries to wall gliscor, and glisc switches in on Blissey's/clods that try to wall bolt. The only issue would be ice beam Blissey, which isn't two common but destroys both.
 
I have a question. What holds Psychic Terrain back in OU? It’s extremely potent in CAP. I want to share this set that Amamama uses to great effect, which can be nearly unstoppable with Hatterene as a hazard blocker and Red Card pivoter:

Armarouge @ Focus Sash / Psychic Seed
Ability: Weak Armor
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Armor Cannon
- Expanding Force
- Calm Mind
- Endure

Focus Sash allows a Calm Mind or Psychic Seec aids setup. Endure then allows Armarouge to outspeed the entire meta and revenge-kill-proof it thanks to Psychic Terrain. It punishing multi-hit moves the most. Expanding Force is OP in Psychic Terrain, and Armor Cannon is STAB.
Well, I tried Psychic Terrain for a bit and I can honestly say it is incredibly underwhelming.

One of the biggest problems is Indeedee isn't a real pokemon. At least not at the OU level in singles. It's kind of like playing 5 v 6. Not as bad as Pinurchin, but still. It's pretty bad. Rillaboom works because it's an actual good mon and you get useful priority as a package deal. It's almost never dead weight on a team. The other terrain setters we have access to aren't that good. Or they are Geezing who is niche in the first place and prefers to run better abilities.

Another huge problem is that non stall teams in gen 9 tend to rely heavily on priority as a means of not getting swept. It's simply too hard to check all the threats in the tier otherwise. Psychic Terrain eliminates priority, but leaves you vulnerable to faster setup sweepers since you have little way to revenge them. Like I tried an iteration if a Psychic Terrain team with D-Speed and Booster speed Valiant. Iron Valiant can only come in with the speed boost once and it usually isn't enough. Neither one of these blazingly fast mons was actually fast enough as revenge killers to cover all the speedy threats I needed. Scarf Meow tears through the team. Iron Boulder goes from a mon that belongs in UU to the most threatening thing you have ever seen in your life.

For this reason, your weather matchup also sucks. Rain and Sun speed boosts tend to outrun everything you would fit on your teams. You have no answer for Barry whatsoever. The boosted metagame is a beast.

The next issue is that you straight lose to Roaring Moon. Not much you can do about this one with most team structures. It's the speed tier that is the real issue here. Moon will find a way to come in for free at some point in the match because psychic moves. It will then outspeed your entire team. Like I'm not exaggerating at all when I say that Psychic Terrain is almost an auto-loss into Roaring Moon, particularly with the speed boost. Most people who aren't running stall rely on chip and finishing it off with priority, which your team doesn't like. You can run priority, but it is jank as heck and you can't freely utilize it. Imagine having to stall out your own terrain while Moon is KOing your team so that you can revenge kill it with priority after the turns run out. A competent player will probably find a way to do that to you with Roaring Moon. Even if you do stop Moon from delivering the finishing blow, you probably lost like half your team at that point.

Of course you can try to set up your own mons, but this requires you to actually get the positioning to do so first. It's kind of hard to do this when most teams have better mons for positioning and you are carrying dead weight Indeedee. Something like Polteageist or Sinistcha can set up if you keep hazards off long enough to keep the Focus Sash in tact. But doing this and finding the time to setup while under pressure from offensive teams isn't easy in practice.
 
Lmao. This is such a fear mongering post. Lugia is faaaaaar away from unkillable, every single playstyle has ways to deal with Lugia, you're looking too much at its defensive stats and HA and ignoring everything else, like the recovery nerf, loss of key moves it liked like toxic and thunder wave, it's bad defensive type, susceptibility to every status, being rocks weak, being a huge tera-hog which is big since Tera cost nowadays is all time high with all the huge beatsticks in the tier and even even with Tera Lugia will always be stopped by a well made team since it invites soon much stuff if it doesn't have the right coverage/tera type: no ground coverage? Ghambit/Dhengo bait, no ice moves? Dragons and bulky grounds use you as set-up/hazards, no fighting/Fairy coverage? Hamurott, RM and Weavile uses you as bait And let's not get started on the Unaware mons which don't care about it unless it packs some bad coverage on it. I see a lot of people saying just because it's a bad Uber/UUber it shouldn't be given a chance but that's wrong in my opinion, the mons at its rank in UUbers or lower at there for one of these 4 reasons:
1 They're arent bad but are Outclassed, like Sceptile(ShedTail) and Reshiram.

2 They have better forms/version like Arceus, Urshifu and Dia-Origin

3 They're OU mons who are very niche in the tier and may may not be bordeline UUbers

4 They are really bad and there's no reason to use it. LUGIA.

I'm not saying to give a suspect right now especially with the meta as unstable as it is right now, but I really believe it can bring something good for the tier. It's a bad offensive mon but it could be a good/great defensive boon to help handle all those offensive threats turning the tier into a offensive mess, we shouldn't be afraid to consider mons just because the are Ubers by what is a formality due to being a 680bst box-mon rather than being an actual Uber. When the Deoxys and Darkrai got dropped everyone was saying they won't last now the three are fine and two of them are UU or lower.

TL/DR: Lugia, is ok and should be considered in the future once the tier stabilizes a bit more, also Ban Tera, it's a cancer killing the tier and ban RM as well.
Having an above average speed mon that isn't completely worthless offensively and is REALLY good at not dying is too much for this metagame. 106/130/154 base defenses are a lot, and even with only 8 pp on recover, it will not die and it can continue using multiscale well through to the lategame.
252+ Atk Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Lugia: 126-148 (30.2 - 35.5%) -- 36.1% chance to 3HKO
You also say that Deoxys and Darkrai got dropped to UU but that's because they're just not all that in the metagame, as they both get outclassed by other options. Deo-s with max speed can't outspeed +1 valiant and is pretty much only worthy of OU because it can win in a lead-off vs. Tusk, and Darkrai is kind of just outclassed by Gambit and Valiant in general, both as a setup sweeper/breaker and as a revenge killer (I don't think I need to talk about Deo-D).
The existence of Lugia in the tier also causes a ton of problems because it can do so much for the tier. Defensively, it's a CLEAR upgrade over many of the tier's bulky flyings, and also has access to whirlwind, making it a clear fit as a defensive backbone on hazard stack teams in conjunction with something like Tusk or Ting-lu. Even with a relatively subpar SpA stat, Aeroblast can still do respectable damage (at least enough to deal with the mons that would otherwise completely shut it down)
The lack of Recover PP also isn't a major roadblock. 8 recover PP is more than enough for Lugia to chip down threats to its teammates before dying, and future sight allows you to reposition your team as neccesary.
It also has calm mind, which allows it multiple setup oppurtunities as it can set up in front of the multiple mons who don't like sitting in front of Lugia (Zam, Valiant, Tusk, etc.) which allows it to even more reliably take damage while still hitting quite hard. STAB psychic noise is also a nice tool to have as you can now reliably heal while your opponent cannot.
Honestly, I don't know why we keep entertaining the lugia unban discussion. It's a terrible idea, although it could be considered for generation 10.
 
Thanks for all the answers. I’m just wondering since CAP has all those Pokémon and an additional 33 threats to deal with and Psychic Terrain still manages to be good (and none of the CAPs really abuse it at all).

Also, Unburden Hawlucha is only relevantly outsped by Barra in Rain, that includes all the booster Speed mons, meaning Psychic Terrain shouldn’t have too much speed problems if you use Eject Button Hat well. After a Swords Dance it goes crazy on teams without an Unaware Mon.
 
Thanks for all the answers. I’m just wondering since CAP has all those Pokémon and an additional 33 threats to deal with and Psychic Terrain still manages to be good (and none of the CAPs really abuse it at all).

Also, Unburden Hawlucha is only relevantly outsped by Barra in Rain, that includes all the booster Speed mons, meaning Psychic Terrain shouldn’t have too much speed problems if you use Eject Button Hat well. After a Swords Dance it goes crazy on teams without an Unaware Mon.
Hawlucha is essentially a one use button. Using it at the start or to save yourself from a setup sweeper (often with sacrificing Indeedee in the process) is generally not ideal. You should be saving that Hawlucha for cleaning after you punch holes in the opposing team. It is also better on Grassy Terrain where it can get a defense boost for most priority and a teammate that actually counters Barry.

Eject button Hatt is useful. Turn 1, Indeede lead switch into Eject Button Hatt. Then get in your setup mon. It is the most telegraphed thing ever, but this works against nearly everything except Hamurott lead and those calling your bluff with Encore or their own setup mons. But you'd be better with an earlier game setup mon to use this at the start of games. Something with Stored Power to break Unaware mons and Tera Fighting to break Tera Dark stall teams. You could maybe bring in a cleaner like Hawlucha later, but I honestly am not high on Hawlucha on PT teams. It's not that it can't work. Just that I find it very underwhelming.

My advice is to try adding Gouging Fire. Fire STAB is extremely useful on these teams to deal with Steel types. GF can boost it's speed, hit Heatran with EQ, and be both an offensive and defensive backbone to a team. Psychic Seed might actually go crazy since everyone uses special attackers to try and counter it. Testing this dynamic is probably the only reason I would even try a Psychic Terrain team again.
 
Thanks for all the answers. I’m just wondering since CAP has all those Pokémon and an additional 33 threats to deal with and Psychic Terrain still manages to be good (and none of the CAPs really abuse it at all).

Also, Unburden Hawlucha is only relevantly outsped by Barra in Rain, that includes all the booster Speed mons, meaning Psychic Terrain shouldn’t have too much speed problems if you use Eject Button Hat well. After a Swords Dance it goes crazy on teams without an Unaware Mon.
FWIW I’ve used a very similar Psy Terrain in OU and you absolutely can win vs Grassy Squads with your own Lucha. The issue is that dark types are much better here. You can’t really load 2 atks Armarouge here bc stuff like ting Lu, Roaring Moon and to an extent Hamurott and Gren are more easily usable in OU or at least more common and running Arma with just STABs will whiff into these mons basically always.
Additionally CAPs most classic defensive core has three defensive mons that are all weak to just Armas STABs and a lot of teams are generally more balancey, which gives you much more opportunities to set up.

https://pokepast.es/dc9eb0467f627f24 This is fun to use even if you likely don’t go far on ladder. But if you play very aggressively this team is really rewarding.
 
I want to mention a Gouging Fire set that was on everyone’s mind before someone said, “Wait, Band Proto-Attack 2HKOes Dozo in Sun.”

The set I’m talking about is true defensive GF.

True Defensive Gouging Fire

:sv/gouging Fire:

Gouging Fire @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: (Insert Tera)
EVs: (Insert Optimal EV spread)
(Insert Optimal Nature)
- Heat Crash
- Dragon Tail
- Burning Bulwark
- Morning Sun

You thought Whirlwind Ting-Lu was annoying, welcome Gouging Fire, who can do the same with more chip and more offensive pressure. It loses hazards but gains longevity. It also beats Balloon Ghold. Heat Crash is over Flare Blitz since it doesn’t want to take recoil and most of its main targets (Fairy Types) take 120 BP from it anyways. Everything else is Dragon Tailed. It would waste plenty of Booster Energies and This would function well on hazard stack, as it punishes Rapid Spin removal attempts with Burning Bulwark, while Corv takes loads of damage trying to Defog. This kinda gets wrecked by Primarina though.

Teamates:
(Wanna put a note that I’m terrible at teambuilding so someone could probably come up with something better)

:sv/gliscor: :sv/samurott hisui: - Set hazards and bring Knock support so that Dragon Tail does something. Gliscor is also a Ground immunity.

:sv/gholdengo:- Aids with keeping hazards down and puts pressure on Fairy types.

:sv/Rillaboom:- Provides passive healing and takes out Primarina.

:sv/weavile: :sv/meowscarada: - Knockers that bring high offensive pressure and can sweep with the amount of chip Gouging Fire will apply to the opponent.

I would love to hear others thoughts about this.
 

DaRotomMachine

I COULD BE BANNED!
I want to mention a Gouging Fire set that was on everyone’s mind before someone said, “Wait, Band Proto-Attack 2HKOes Dozo in Sun.”

The set I’m talking about is true defensive GF.

True Defensive Gouging Fire

:sv/gouging Fire:

Gouging Fire @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: (Insert Tera)
EVs: (Insert Optimal EV spread)
(Insert Optimal Nature)
- Heat Crash
- Dragon Tail
- Burning Bulwark
- Morning Sun

You thought Whirlwind Ting-Lu was annoying, welcome Gouging Fire, who can do the same with more chip and more offensive pressure. It loses hazards but gains longevity. It also beats Balloon Ghold. Heat Crash is over Flare Blitz since it doesn’t want to take recoil and most of its main targets (Fairy Types) take 120 BP from it anyways. Everything else is Dragon Tailed. It would waste plenty of Booster Energies and This would function well on hazard stack, as it punishes Rapid Spin removal attempts with Burning Bulwark, while Corv takes loads of damage trying to Defog. This kinda gets wrecked by Primarina though.

Teamates:
(Wanna put a note that I’m terrible at teambuilding so someone could probably come up with something better)

:sv/gliscor: :sv/samurott hisui: - Set hazards and bring Knock support so that Dragon Tail does something. Gliscor is also a Ground immunity.

:sv/gholdengo:- Aids with keeping hazards down and puts pressure on Fairy types.

:sv/Rillaboom:- Provides passive healing and takes out Primarina.

:sv/weavile: :sv/meowscarada: - Knockers that bring high offensive pressure and can sweep with the amount of chip Gouging Fire will apply to the opponent.

I would love to hear others thoughts about this.
You could slash in Breaking Swipe so it can become more "defensive"
TBH I think the first set we all thought about before someone said "Wait, Band Proto-Attack 2HKOes Dozo in Sun.” was the standard DD set
 
You could slash in Breaking Swipe so it can become more "defensive"
TBH I think the first set we all thought about before someone said "Wait, Band Proto-Attack 2HKOes Dozo in Sun.” was the standard DD set
Breaking Swipe kinda removes the point of this certain set. It’s supposed to be a Defensive phaser. I thing Dragon Tail also does a much better Defensive job since something like Volcarona won’t endlessly set up on you.
 
I want to mention a Gouging Fire set that was on everyone’s mind before someone said, “Wait, Band Proto-Attack 2HKOes Dozo in Sun.”

The set I’m talking about is true defensive GF.

True Defensive Gouging Fire

:sv/gouging Fire:

Gouging Fire @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: (Insert Tera)
EVs: (Insert Optimal EV spread)
(Insert Optimal Nature)
- Heat Crash
- Dragon Tail
- Burning Bulwark
- Morning Sun

You thought Whirlwind Ting-Lu was annoying, welcome Gouging Fire, who can do the same with more chip and more offensive pressure. It loses hazards but gains longevity.

-snip-

I would love to hear others thoughts about this.
You are an evil person. I can already see hazard stack teams using this. Since everyone plans for the 3 main sets, this is a good way to catch them off guard. I would have teammate suggestions, but I don't want to encourage this from a mon with more defensive bulk than Skarmory. This could be even worse if you make it specially defensive since most folks try to counter it with special attackers. Burning Bulwark hands out the burns. Or you could pair it with another phaser like Ting Lu to be really obnoxious.

And for the guy saying Breaking Swipe would make it more defensive, I disagree. Phasing moves are 1000% better on a tank in this meta. You rack up hazard chip and you get rid of the entire setup boost instead of just one attack stage. It's also better against Heatran. And the fairy immunity doesn't make a difference because both moves are Dragon type.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Da Pizza Man

Pizza Time
is a Pre-Contributor
Thanks for all the answers. I’m just wondering since CAP has all those Pokémon and an additional 33 threats to deal with and Psychic Terrain still manages to be good (and none of the CAPs really abuse it at all).
Not going to go into much detail since this is an OU Thread, but the TL;DR is that defensive poison-types are absolutely everywhere in cap. Which is great for psyspam cause not only can they can abuse this, but it also makes Rillaboom (the archetype's greatest nemesis) worse.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I want to mention a Gouging Fire set that was on everyone’s mind before someone said, “Wait, Band Proto-Attack 2HKOes Dozo in Sun.”

The set I’m talking about is true defensive GF.

True Defensive Gouging Fire

:sv/gouging Fire:

Gouging Fire @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: (Insert Tera)
EVs: (Insert Optimal EV spread)
(Insert Optimal Nature)
- Heat Crash
- Dragon Tail
- Burning Bulwark
- Morning Sun

You thought Whirlwind Ting-Lu was annoying, welcome Gouging Fire, who can do the same with more chip and more offensive pressure. It loses hazards but gains longevity. It also beats Balloon Ghold. Heat Crash is over Flare Blitz since it doesn’t want to take recoil and most of its main targets (Fairy Types) take 120 BP from it anyways. Everything else is Dragon Tailed. It would waste plenty of Booster Energies and This would function well on hazard stack, as it punishes Rapid Spin removal attempts with Burning Bulwark, while Corv takes loads of damage trying to Defog. This kinda gets wrecked by Primarina though.

Teamates:
(Wanna put a note that I’m terrible at teambuilding so someone could probably come up with something better)

:sv/gliscor: :sv/samurott hisui: - Set hazards and bring Knock support so that Dragon Tail does something. Gliscor is also a Ground immunity.

:sv/gholdengo:- Aids with keeping hazards down and puts pressure on Fairy types.

:sv/Rillaboom:- Provides passive healing and takes out Primarina.

:sv/weavile: :sv/meowscarada: - Knockers that bring high offensive pressure and can sweep with the amount of chip Gouging Fire will apply to the opponent.

I would love to hear others thoughts about this.
i wonder, would torkoal be a worthwhile partner for this set? sun teams usually have a more offensive bent because the weather is only there for a limited time, but sun synergizes quite well with morning sun, removes other weathers that are pesky for any gouging set, boosts your already-strong heat crashes, and gives you a proto boost. you can proto your defense and turn yourself into a monstrous tank that can still dish out good damage, or proto attack to easily bait people into unfavorable switches thinking you're a more offensive set while also doing tons of damage with heat crash. also, torkoal is decent at hazard removal, so if you're really confident in your hazard-control skills you might even be able to run an item besides boots (though i'd personally stick to them)
 
Let's just move on now...

On a new note, I do think Roaring Moon will be the next suspect simply because it feels like the easiest thing to get people to agree on getting out of OU.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Let's just move on now...

On a new note, I do think Roaring Moon will be the next suspect simply because it feels like the easiest thing to get people to agree on getting out of OU.
As things stand. it's not particularly likely any specific mons are getting banned. Oftentimes, throughout a suspect test, people start digging for new ways to counter a specific mon, which slightly shifts the meta towards another mon being banworthy. When moon eventually gets ST'd, the same thing is going to happen. I do think moon might be broken enough to get voted out on the ST, but my hopes aren't particularly high considering what happened with gouging and kyurem.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 6, Guests: 108)

Top