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That problem lies at the core of the class, you can either try to fix it with stupid/broken mechanics such as crits and airblast, or you can just let it be because not all classes are equal at everything. Generalists and specialists yo.
 

GatoDelFuego

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I just find it incredibly sad that the same people that think the axetinguisher was OP think that demoman's offensive potential is a-ok at the moment. If you were ever killed by an axt-wielding pyro that you were aware of, you were bad, no excuses. Pyro has no way to approach the opponent, and everyone can outdamage them from a distance. If you were ambush by an axt pyro, you would be dead regardless if any other class found you. It really was not broken except for people that couldn't shoot pyros while they ran towards them with a melee weapon equipped.

The nerf to demo was a bit extreme, yeah, but he still has the privilege of being able to deal reliable damage (40-60 airbursts post-nerf) outside of pretty much every other class' comfort zone. But was the axt stronger than the SL? Absolutely not. Again, this is moot because I don't even use the axt, but it's a matter of principle. Even though he wields a primary that is weaker than literally everything else (including the SYRINGE GUN), pyro still has to deal with some of the strongest hate in the game. You just said so yourself..."crits/combos are broken, airblast is broken", w+m1 is often lambasted as "skilless" when no class in the game can kill anything without walking forward and pressing m1.

Defenders of the sticky launcher un-nerf like to point to a commentary where the devs said "we wanted the sticky launcher to be used as both an offensive and defensive weapon". There's also a commentary where they said pyro is intended to be the strongest close-range class in the game. I agree, not all classes should be equal at everything. Pyro just needs to have something that they are better than anybody else in the game.
 
Runic who the hell was telling you w + m1 was skilless? I guarantee it wasn't "elitist pyro mains", as every one of them knows the flamethrower is the best source of damage. My guess is it was bad players crying they got killed by a "weak" class.
Keep in mind that I'm coming back from a 2 year break from the game. I guess a lot of those guys quit, but back then Pyro was ignite->airblast->Axtinguisher and literally anything else was decried as w+m1. I have to imagine those guys just left and new Pyros didn't pick up on it, as I can't imagine why a tactic that instakills everything but Heavies without sacrificing any range would just disappear with zero real nerfs coming about until now.

pyro still has to deal with some of the strongest hate in the game.
This is another "back in my day" reply, but at least when I was active, Pyro mains where the whiniest fucking cunts with no self-awareness. A lot of their complaints were actual issues, but at least as many of them amounted to "a strategy I don't use is being supported by Valve!? It takes no skill, nerf it!" or "my refusal to use literally any other class in literally any situation is a weakness of the Pyro and not just me being retarded."
 
That problem lies at the core of the class, you can either try to fix it with stupid/broken mechanics such as crits and airblast, or you can just let it be because not all classes are equal at everything. Generalists and specialists yo.
The thing is, the Pyro is only a support class because he has very small niches only granted by the airblast. The class is literally only the best at supporting teammates with projectile reflection and spy checking at it's top form. The whole "generalist and specialist" thing doesn't really work when applied to Pyro because every class is the best at something, while the Pyro isn't even close to being a jack of all trades. That's not a generalist or a specialist, it's just niche. I wouldn't call nerfing the Pyro's damage output acceptable because he already has some of the lowest in the game and he's the most range restricted class. There is a genuine right to be complaining. Yea, the Powerjack was a better option anyways but the update didn't move things forward, that's for sure.

Also, airblast is far from broken. It's probably the only thing that skill indexes the Pyro right now. The only thing that needs to be fixed about the airblast is that it should take into account current momentum and position of the opponent's body instead of reflecting people as easily as it reflects projectiles.

The thing that people don't like is the concept of burst damage quite honestly. Even if said burst damage doesn't kill as quickly as a Soldier plodding rockets point blank at you or a Scout hitting meatshots. Yea, the Pyro is really a problematic class at the core, but Valve can at least start by adjusting the class mechanics because Pyro's relevance has been clinging on to bandaid unlcoks for the past 5 years. Flamethrowers still need higher DPS and for the love of God increase the base class speed like most Pyro mains have been begging for so chasing as Pyro isn't futile. Hell, the suggestion to merge the Flare Gun and Detonator a few years back to make a utility weapon similar to the Sticky Launcher was even a better idea for class balance that what they've been pulling.
 

DHR-107

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I am amazed at how few Demos were around on Saturday... Compared to last night where every mother and their son was using demo??

Fucking strange. I am yet to get any of the new weapons via drops (a friend gave me the parachute). idk, the main thing with pyros is 90% of their time they have no clue about their surroundings at all. Maybe it's just come from playing soldier a lot, but I'm constantly scanning everywhere for little clues on what might be coming next... It seems a lot of Pyros don't do that? I'm pretty horrible with the reflect mechanic, but its really *really* good in the right hands.

I want the sticky nerf back... Or at least some sort of nerf to the SL, it's always been one of the best weapons.
 

Mr.E

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Theoretically, Pyro mains should be the most aware of their surroundings because they're the weakest class at range and they're also TF2's designated Spy-checker, both things which requires extra awareness to prevent your ass from getting smoked for free. (Or second at worst; Demo has to be mindful of their sticky fields.) But really, it just depends how good the player is regardless of the class they're playing. A good player doesn't just go hurrrrr and start doing stupid shit just because they're playing Scoot instead of Soldier. ;[

I haven't actually played in months yo.
 

Alter

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Some of the gameplay changes are actually pretty good, such as the Spy-cicle and Kunai changes. Others are a bit weird (e.g. the picking up weapons upon death thing). Seems like Valve are just trying to push it to be more like their leading FPS at this point. To be perfectly honest, I'd prefer if they had have left TF2 to die in ~2012 instead of force-feeding it terrible cosmetic updates over and over again while trying to milk customers through the store, but at least this update comes with a lot of actual gameplay fixes, which is a promising sign.

Now just to find a way to cash in on my unusual after ages of not playing before it ends up being worthless.
 
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sandshrewz

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Hypeee

I personally dislike the CS:GO style of weapon drops / skins / etc. BUTTTT I'm all for the upcoming weapon rebalances and new Taunts and maps c:
 

DHR-107

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Update looks awesome :)

We have a LAN event next weekend, so it'll be interesting to see how these new changes change how some people play. Liberty Launcher going up to 5 rockets is going to be ace. It was always my favourite rocket launcher. Nice changes to the Blackbox too :)

Not sure if the Spy stuff is nerfing or buffing, I am sure one of my friends would be able to tell me pretty easily. I doubt many people are going to pick up weapons anyway, there just isn't enough time in a game like TF2. If you stop you die :|
 
They nerfed DR tanking, but introduced that aspect of the item in small amounts to the other watches, which basically makes the DR obsolete since feigning death was always a joke means of stealth anyways. It sounds like the CnD could be really good, but it all depends on how much cloak is actually restored off of ammo. Kunai is still a gimmick and Spycicle only interacts with with a joke class so the nerf doesn't matter B). But cloak tanking + building damage could be great for the Spy.



edit: has anyone messed around with weapon pickups yet? if it takes minimal time like a weapon switch and the loaded clip is preserved I could see some interesting/potentially broken tactics involved. Imagine winning a shotgun war and then just having like 4-5 more shots to go hogwild on, or getting free rockets. mm, kritzkrieg.
 
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if you drop uber you can just pick it up the medigun in the next life. That's pretty cool and stupid.

Big Earner is fun.

The Jag is my new favorite wrench

And skins are fun to sell on the market
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
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They nerfed the Caber.

Those bitches. Cabering Medics and Charging to one-shot Heavies were the best thing in pubs.
 

BenTheDemon

Banned deucer.
Hey guys. I just found this thread. I play quite a bit of TF2. If anyone wants to add me on Steam, my user name is still BenTheDemon.
 
So after playing with the update for a while obviously, there are still some flaws with the contracts. They work wonderfully in making players like me play in pubs more frequently. The problem is, I spend 30 minutes every 3 days doing contracts and then I'm left with nothing again. I'd really like there to be an option to get "advanced contracts", maybe like once a week. They'd be harder to complete (like, significantly, the current ones are super easy even if you've barely played the map/class) and have a chance to drop better skins or something idk. I'd buy an extra pass to get something like that for sure, maybe with the next campaign we'll get something like it.
 
So just fyi, the enforcer is still completely broken. All you have to do is bind mouse 1 to +attack and lastdisguise and you'll get the 20% damage bonus for every shot. Still easy to two shot all low hp classes, except now you can fire the first shot while disguised.
Also the wee booties + quickiebomb launcher is pretty good if completely brainless. Airburst sticky spam coming from a 200hp class that's faster then pyro's is legit.
 
Anyone watching i55 this weekend? Finals are happening tomorrow at 14:00 BST with consolation finals at 11. I wasn't able to watch matches of the group stages on Friday but the knockout stages today have been incredible. Froyotech vs Nerdrage was possibly the best and most exciting match I've ever watched and we're probably going to get a rematch in the Grand Finals so I strongly recommend tuning in tomorrow :).

http://www.twitch.tv/teamfortresstv
 
VODs of i55 have been uploaded to the teamfortress.tv youtube channel, I recommend everyone to at least watch the upper finals between Froyotech and nerdRage, some of the best TF2 I've ever seen. Especially maps 2 and 3 were complete bonkers.
 

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