Resource USM OU Role Compendium

Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but why is Tornadus in the mixed wall breaker category? The only physical moves he'll ever use are knock off, superpower, and u-turn, and only superpower is used offensively, u-turn and knock are more used as utility. Superpower is also fairly rare on him, and usually ineffective since he only has a 100 base uninvested attack to use most of the time. Also could magearna with vest be considered a defensive pivot?



Also free scarfed ferrothorn he's the top SS tier scarfer for ou.
 

Gary

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Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but why is Tornadus in the mixed wall breaker category? The only physical moves he'll ever use are knock off, superpower, and u-turn, and only superpower is used offensively, u-turn and knock are more used as utility. Superpower is also fairly rare on him, and usually ineffective since he only has a 100 base uninvested attack to use most of the time. Also could magearna with vest be considered a defensive pivot?



Also free scarfed ferrothorn he's the top SS tier scarfer for ou.
Superpower is fairly standard on the LO set, especially with T-tar being a lot more common than before. But yeah, I'm not sure where you are getting at here. That set runs both Hurricane, Superpower, and Heat Wave to break things, so that is the definition of a mixed wallbreaker. Like what? It's not like it needs 2 physical and 2 special moves. As long as it's running at least ONE physical and ONE special move, it is mixed lol.
 

GMars

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Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but why is Tornadus in the mixed wall breaker category? The only physical moves he'll ever use are knock off, superpower, and u-turn, and only superpower is used offensively, u-turn and knock are more used as utility. Superpower is also fairly rare on him, and usually ineffective since he only has a 100 base uninvested attack to use most of the time. Also could magearna with vest be considered a defensive pivot?



Also free scarfed ferrothorn he's the top SS tier scarfer for ou.
See Gary's reply for Tornadus, and added Magearna to defensive pivots, thanks
lando t aint a physical wall?
added, thanks
 

The.Lost.Hylian

Conquer your Shadow
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Araquanid should be added to Hazards.

Rotom, Landorus, Klefki, et al should be added to Hazard Removal.

Stakataka should be added to Trick Room Abusers.

Naganadel should be added to Setup.
 
Stak for band, rocks, tr setter and phys def
Blace for scarf, specs, wall breaker and setup(calm mind + beast boost is one heck of a combo)
Mimikyu with let's snuggle forever to zmoves
removal of gliscor from niche

Rotom-Wash for physics def
 
Chandelure should be removed from Choice Specs users, since it was unranked on the VR.

Also when deciding if a Pokemon should be marked as niche or not, would it be possible to take into account the general viability of that set rather than the Pokemon itself? What I'm getting at is that Victini, for example, isn't placed in the niche category under Choice Band users. However, it's only really ranked as B- for its Z-Celebrate set, and its Choice Band set is much more niche, so it's odd for it not to be marked as such. I'm sure there's some other examples of this as well.
 
Could Empoleon be put in as a mixed attacker? You could run:
Empoleon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Aqua Jet
- Earthquake
- Liquidation
- Avalanche,
Or:
Empoleon @ Waterium Z
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Flash Cannon
- Signal Beam / Rest
Or even a mix of the two.
 
Could Empoleon be put in as a mixed attacker? You could run:
Empoleon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Aqua Jet
- Earthquake
- Liquidation
- Avalanche,
Or:
Empoleon @ Waterium Z
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Flash Cannon
- Signal Beam / Rest
Or even a mix of the two.
For something to be put on the compendium the Pokemon has to be ranked on the viability rankings.
 
For something to be put on the compendium the Pokemon has to be ranked on the viability rankings.
Never heard that rule. Well, the first set can beat soon-to-be-uber Naga, Landorus if played right, most ground/dragon/flying types, Heatran, and even greninja. The second set is meh? I never thought hard about that one.
 
Never heard that rule. Well, the first set can beat soon-to-be-uber Naga, Landorus if played right, most ground/dragon/flying types, Heatran, and even greninja. The second set is meh? I never thought hard about that one.
It isn't technically a rule, however most to all of the pokemon on the compedium are ranked on the VR. If you feel that a pokemon should be on the compedium, I suggest you get the pokemon ranked in the USUM VR Thread once it is open, and elaborate as to why Empoleon should be ranked, which should also cover its role in the metagame, thus giving it a role on the compedium. While empoleon was ranked on the VR perviously, it has since fallen out of favour in the meta due to its role as being a defensive water type pivot/wall being clearly outclassed by the likes of toxapex, rotom-wash and many others, and its niches over its competition honestly isn't enough to justify using it in the meta right now. As for the sets you've listed, they honestly aren't viable. Spdef empoleon would be a more conventional set, and you could make an arguement for it, considering that's the set which got it ranked, but neither AV nor offensive empoleon are viable.

Also, echoing deathbywobb in mentioning that some of the unranked shit like cofag, chandy, slowbro should be unlisted, as well as the addition of the new mons, as well as things like defog rotom-wash, but all in due time.
 
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Using
Empoleon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Aqua Jet
- Earthquake
- Liquidation
- Avalanche
As the subject of my calculations, these happen:
+2 252 SpA Naganadel Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Assault Vest Empoleon: 188-222 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, meanwhile Empoleon does this afterwards: 252 Atk Empoleon Avalanche vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Naganadel: 258-304 (89.8 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO.

Heatran is up next, and let's use this set:
Heatran @ Groundium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Toxic
- Taunt
And going against the Empoleon set mentioned earlier, this happens: 252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Assault Vest Empoleon: 120-142 (32.2 - 38.1%) -- 96.4% chance to 3HKO, while in return, the damage done by Empoleon is phenomenal: 252 Atk Empoleon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 316-372 (97.8 - 115.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO, or a straight up 100% OHKO if you play with SR.

Blacephalon is a fun name, and with a typing of Fire/Ghost, it is a faster Chandelure. The set I'll be using was provided by the OU chat room on the showdown website itself:
Blacephalon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- Psyshock
- Trick
This gets us the most damage: 252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Assault Vest Empoleon: 181-214 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO.
In return, our boi can deliver a whopping: 252 Atk Empoleon Liquidation vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Blacephalon: 350-414 (141.1 - 166.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO. That is a lot of damage. Onwards to maybe the least unusual one on the list.

Ash Greninja! One of the fastest OU mons, outspeeding even Tapu Koko. The set I'll be using is the first set on the Analysis.
Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- Spikes
By using Dark Pulse, the only non-resisted move, this happens: 252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Assault Vest Empoleon: 133-157 (35.7 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. The damage done back isn't that cool either: 252 Atk Empoleon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja-Ash: 114-135 (40 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO.
This is why I think that Empoleon should be a physical attacker on the Compendum.
 

Leo

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MPL Champion
Using
Empoleon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Aqua Jet
- Earthquake
- Liquidation
- Avalanche
As the subject of my calculations, these happen:
+2 252 SpA Naganadel Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Assault Vest Empoleon: 188-222 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, meanwhile Empoleon does this afterwards: 252 Atk Empoleon Avalanche vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Naganadel: 258-304 (89.8 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO.

Heatran is up next, and let's use this set:
Heatran @ Groundium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Toxic
- Taunt
And going against the Empoleon set mentioned earlier, this happens: 252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Assault Vest Empoleon: 120-142 (32.2 - 38.1%) -- 96.4% chance to 3HKO, while in return, the damage done by Empoleon is phenomenal: 252 Atk Empoleon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 316-372 (97.8 - 115.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO, or a straight up 100% OHKO if you play with SR.

Blacephalon is a fun name, and with a typing of Fire/Ghost, it is a faster Chandelure. The set I'll be using was provided by the OU chat room on the showdown website itself:
Blacephalon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- Psyshock
- Trick
This gets us the most damage: 252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Assault Vest Empoleon: 181-214 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO.
In return, our boi can deliver a whopping: 252 Atk Empoleon Liquidation vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Blacephalon: 350-414 (141.1 - 166.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO. That is a lot of damage. Onwards to maybe the least unusual one on the list.

Ash Greninja! One of the fastest OU mons, outspeeding even Tapu Koko. The set I'll be using is the first set on the Analysis.
Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- Spikes
By using Dark Pulse, the only non-resisted move, this happens: 252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Assault Vest Empoleon: 133-157 (35.7 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. The damage done back isn't that cool either: 252 Atk Empoleon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja-Ash: 114-135 (40 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO.
This is why I think that Empoleon should be a physical attacker on the Compendum.
This isn't the place to argue over a Pokemon's viability, wait for the vr to be unlocked or PM a vr council member about it, though I doubt that will take you anywhere since your set doesn't seem viable at all.
 
This isn't the place to argue over a Pokemon's viability, wait for the vr to be unlocked or PM a vr council member about it, though I doubt that will take you anywhere since your set doesn't seem viable at all.
I was arguing for putting it in the Compendum, not being viable...
But I won't try to argue for its viability, for I know when to back off.
 
I was arguing for putting it in the Compendum, not being viable...
But I won't try to argue for its viability, for I know when to back off.
only viable sets will be put here so it has to be in the Viability Ranking 1st, try to get some replays of the set working and try to convince the people its viable 1st

(finch edit: not in here, in the VR thread!!!)
 
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GMars

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Updated to the latest VR post including the naga ban.
Araquanid should be added to Hazards.

Rotom, Landorus, Klefki, et al should be added to Hazard Removal.

Stakataka should be added to Trick Room Abusers.

Naganadel should be added to Setup.
added araquanid to hazards, rotom and lando to hazard removal, staka to OTR and abusers
Mega Latios should be moved out of niche due to its massive rise on the vr's.

Gliscor should also be added to hazard removal

Probably shouldn't add Naganadel because it won't last another week lol
Moved mega latios out of niche, added gliscor to hazard removal
Stak for band, rocks, tr setter and phys def
Blace for scarf, specs, wall breaker and setup(calm mind + beast boost is one heck of a combo)
Mimikyu with let's snuggle forever to zmoves
removal of gliscor from niche

Rotom-Wash for physics def
added stak to band and tr setter, it's not being commonly used for sr or as a wall to the best of my knowledge
added blace to scarf, specs, wb, cm, and bb
z moves section is gone
removed gliscor from niche
Chandelure should be removed from Choice Specs users, since it was unranked on the VR.

Also when deciding if a Pokemon should be marked as niche or not, would it be possible to take into account the general viability of that set rather than the Pokemon itself? What I'm getting at is that Victini, for example, isn't placed in the niche category under Choice Band users. However, it's only really ranked as B- for its Z-Celebrate set, and its Choice Band set is much more niche, so it's odd for it not to be marked as such. I'm sure there's some other examples of this as well.
removed chandy and the other UR pokemon.
Yes Wobb, I'd like to do this going forward (removed victini from band btw since we dropped the set from the analysis). Need to wait for the USUM OU Sets VR to get that in motion though, and until then I'm gonna be consistent with the current method to avoid making the update process brutal

Also updated the title. We ULTRA ROLES now.

As always, let me know if anything looks off or if there's anything I need to update. Always appreciate your guys' feedback.
 
- Diggersby as Choice Band / Priority user / Wallbreaker
- Lycanroc-Dusk as priority / SD user / Wallbreaker
- Necrozma as CM / SD / Rock Polish user / Wallbreaker / Stallbreaker (Photon Geyser)
- Ribombee webs
- Tornadus-T / Altaria-Mega Defog (you can find Thundurus-I as well since it has Prankster but I'm not sure if its really good)
- Togekiss as NP user / Cleric / Defog / Stallbreaker
- Victini as Choice Band user
- Kommo-o as Z-Move setupper
- Tyrantrum as Trick Room / Choice Band user / Wallbreaker (its not a meme)
 
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Blace to Stallbreaker

Also maybe we can update/add back the Z-Move section?

--

sry for double post but also add Azu to trappers

finch edit: merged them and kept the one more recent w/ the like, dw
 
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GMars

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- Diggersby as Choice Band / Priority user / Wallbreaker
- Lycanroc-Dusk as priority / SD user / Wallbreaker
- Necrozma as CM / SD / Rock Polish user / Wallbreaker / Stallbreaker (Photon Geyser)
- Ribombee webs
- Tornadus-T / Altaria-Mega Defog (you can find Thundurus-I as well since it has Prankster but I'm not sure if its really good)
- Togekiss as NP user / Cleric / Defog / Stallbreaker
- Victini as Choice Band user
- Kommo-o as Z-Move setupper
- Tyrantrum as Trick Room / Choice Band user / Wallbreaker (its not a meme)
Not sold on Lycanroc-Dusk, Cleric/Defog Togekiss, or Kommo-o yet. I've actually used Tyrantrum TR, and I'm willing to add it as an abuser. I've not used Ribombee webs, but I'm fine with adding it as a niche option for now.

Added the rest (Necrozma niche to CM / SD / RP / WB / SB, Torn-T to Defog, Thund and Alt to niche Defog, Toge to niche NP and SB, Victini to niche CB, Ttrum to TR abusers).

Dig the Dark Paladin avi btw.
Blace to Stallbreaker

Also maybe we can update/add back the Z-Move section?

--

sry for double post but also add Azu to trappers

finch edit: merged them and kept the one more recent w/ the like, dw
Added Blace to stallbreaker, not sold that PerishTrap Azu has any use outside of being a meme. If you disagree feel free to back up the argument though

As far as z-move section, I still agree with AM's original point, especially when the meta hasn't settled. Too many mons can viably run a Z-Move for it to be a useful section for the amount of effort it would take to upkeep. It might be worth considering looking at again when the meta is more settled and Z-Move sets are more definitive, but for right now I'm definitely against it
 

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