Venomoth [QC: 0/3]

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Brokenmoth~

Overview
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  • Quiverpassing is a strong strategy and Venomoth is the best pokemon that can do it
  • Decent defensive typing lets it set up on common walls like Florges
  • Two good abilities help it doing its job for the team
  • Decent speed tier
  • Offensive sets have a good STAB to hit common defensive pokemon for SE damage
  • Frail and prone to common revenge killers like Darmanitan and Victini
  • Stealth Rock weakness is annoying and restricts setup opportunities

QuiverPass
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name: QuiverPass
move 1: Quiver Dance
move 2: Baton Pass
move 3: Sleep Powder
move 4: Bug Buzz
ability: Tinted Lens / Wonder Skin
item: Focus Sash
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
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  • Quiver Dance is why you use Venomoth in the first place as it makes venomoth fasteer and bulkier specially
  • Baton Pass is another important move, if used at the right time it can easily lead to a sweep.
  • Sleep Powder is a decently accurate sleep move that helps Venomoth set up on its counters and can incapacitate phazers
  • Bug Buzz is a decently powerful STAB that should only be used to hit weakened slower mons and potential Phazers if sleep clause is active, it also hits common walls like Slowbro and Umbreon for super effective damage. Sludge Bomb can be used to do more to Florges but Venomoth should set up on it.

Set Details
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  • The Evs maximize power and speed to making Venomoth as fast and threatening as possibld
  • Max Speed with a timid nature is important to outspeed threats like Heracross, modest Roserade and Modest Porygon-Z
  • Focus Sash is the best item for the set as Venomoth finds setting up difficult
  • Tinted Lens is the best ability for the set because Venomoth can do quite a lot of damage with the Special attack investment against common Taunt users and Phazers like Swampert and Mega Aggron. Not to mention it can do a lot against common switch ins like Darmanitan, Nidoqueen and Aerodactyl.
  • Wonder Skin is viable as it gives Moth a 50% chance to avoid a non attacking move but it is not reliable and Venomoth enjoys hitting the already mentioned common switch ins for good damage.

Usage Tips
========

  • Venomoth can easily start setting up on a lot of slower mons but it is hard to switch as it wants its sash intact so a slow U-Turn or Volt Switch from something like Mega Ampharos and Forretress really helps.
  • When you bring in Venomoth the field has to be clear from Entry Hazards as they break its precious Focus Sash
  • You should always quiver dance first unless the opponent has a Choice Scarf Pokemon faster than Venomoth. In that case you should Sleep Powder first
  • Sleep Powder is useful to get a safe Baton Pass

Team Options
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  • Choice Scarfed Fire types are the best switch ins after sleep clause has been activated and the sash is broken so Mega Ampharos, Special Kingdra and other fire resisting pokemon that can act as receivers are good partners.
  • Rapid Spin or Defog support is compulsory if you are using Focus Sash, Starmie is a good choice for this on offensive teams as it can also act as a receiver but Mew and Aerodactyl-Mega can be used on more balanced teams.
  • Nidoqueen and Nidoking are the best Baton Pass receivers in the tier thanks to their amazing coverage, power, and immunity to Thunder Wave
  • Venomoth should be used on offensive teams with a lot of possible receivers.


Quiver Dance Sweeper
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name: Quiver Dance Sweeper
move 1: Quiver Dance
move 2: Sleep Powder
move 3: Bug Buzz
move 4: Roost
ability: Tinted Lens
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

  • Quiver Dance is an amazing boosting move that increases Special Attack, Special Defense and Speed by one stage each
  • Tinted Lens gives it a niche over Vivillion as it Doubles the damage against resisting targets
  • Bug STAB is really good in this tier because common Special Walls are weak to it.
  • Roost is preferred on the last slot as more coverage is usually not needed and Venomoth appreciates having a reliable recovery move to take advantage of the Special Defense boost and set up more on walls like Florges. Sludge Bomb is useful to hit , Florges Chandelure, and Crobat really hard and it has a chance to OHKO them after rocks with one Quiver Dance but the first is setup bait and the latter two risk a 2HKO anyway.

Set Details
========

  • Speed and Special Attack are maximized as this is a sweeping set.
  • Modest might be tempting but outspeeding Choice Scarf Heracross, Modest Choice Scarf Hydreigon at +1 is really important
  • Life Orb is the best item as it gives Venomoth a sizable increase of power
  • Tinted Lens is what makes the set viable as it lets Venomoth plow through resistances

Usage Tips
========

  • Venomoth can easily start setting up on a lot of weak attackers but it is hard to switch it in so a slow U-Turn or Volt Switch from something like Mega Ampharos and Forretress really helps.
  • You should always quiver dance first unless the opponent has a Choice Scarf Pokemon faster than Venomoth. In that case you should Sleep Powder first.
  • Choice Scarf fire types like Darmanitan and Bulky special tanks like Snorlax are threatening to venomoth so they must be removed before you attempt a sweep. In any case if you can bring venomoth in and then double switch into a check they are easy to wear down with entry hazards.
  • This set can also be used as a wallbreaker early-mid game as it easily deals with common special walls

Team Options
========

  • Fire types are common switch ins to so Rhyperior and Swampert are good partner as they resist their moves and can setup Stealth Rock punishing them every time they try to switch in
  • Entry Hazards are great so Roserade, Azelf and Forretress are decent partners. The latter can also remove Stealth Rock from the field
  • Venomoth Struggles with Snorlax so strong Fighting types like Heracross and Mienshao are good parnters


Other Options
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  • Bulkier spread with Black sludge in the Baton Pass set
  • Defog but it is hard to fit into a moveslot.
  • Psychic hits Crobat harder than any other move and Energy Ball destroys Swampert before it phazes you out.
  • Double Powder can lure and cripple the Choice Scarf users that commonly switch in but it is situational and a waste of Venomoth's potential.

Checks & Counters
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  • **Faster Pokemons** Choice Scarfed fire types like Darmanitan and Victini and generally fast Pokemons like Crobat and Noivern can switch in and destroy Venomoth if sleep clause is active and the Sash is broken.
  • **Phazers** like Snorlax and Empoleon can take any single hit and wipe away any boost.
  • **Taunt** from Sableye and Aerodactyl can stop Quiver Dance and Baton Pass but they are 2HKOed by +1 Bug Buzz.
  • **Pokemon immune to Sleep Powder** Overcoat users like Escavalier and Forretress can switch into Sleep Powder and force Venomoth out with the threat of a STAB move.
 
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kokoloko

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focus sash is probably better for quiverpassing this gen because of defog and the plethora of good spinners we have now.

black sludge + hp investment is more of an OO thing now tbh
 
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watashi

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imo tinted lens should be used on the first set since it allows you to potentially sweep through common switch ins such as darmanitan, nidoqueen, aero, florges, and forry. as cool as wonder skin is its still quite unreliable
 
imo tinted lens should be used on the first set since it allows you to potentially sweep through common switch ins such as darmanitan, nidoqueen, aero, florges, and forry. as cool as wonder skin is its still quite unreliable
I mentioned it in set details but i was not sure about slashing it or not.
 
NO YOU CAN'T.

Imo do what FLCL said, WS is excellent but it depends on the opponent and it's still only 50% chance.

Mention Defog from Mew/Mega Aero on a second tier, since Veno doesn't need to be on purely offensive teams to work (you can basically get away with only one pure receiver, although two is obviously recommended).

I still think it's a bit pointless if we're gonna bad QDpass (in a similar vein to those rising to OU), but w/e you took the risk.

On the second set, while having Sludge Bomb for Florges isn't bad you don't really need it for it since you're better off using it as setup bait with Roost (as in, it's cool that you can beat Florges easily, but hitting it isn't really a perk of using a secondary STAB). If anything, mention that Roost allows you to set up on the most common Special Walls much more reliably (well, even more so with 0 Atk IVs but that's irrelevant).

I can't think of anything else so do that for the time being.
 
NO YOU CAN'T.

Imo do what FLCL said, WS is excellent but it depends on the opponent and it's still only 50% chance.

Mention Defog from Mew/Mega Aero on a second tier, since Veno doesn't need to be on purely offensive teams to work (you can basically get away with only one pure receiver, although two is obviously recommended).

I still think it's a bit pointless if we're gonna bad QDpass (in a similar vein to those rising to OU), but w/e you took the risk.

On the second set, while having Sludge Bomb for Florges isn't bad you don't really need it for it since you're better off using it as setup bait with Roost (as in, it's cool that you can beat Florges easily, but hitting it isn't really a perk of using a secondary STAB). If anything, mention that Roost allows you to set up on the most common Special Walls much more reliably (well, even more so with 0 Atk IVs but that's irrelevant).

I can't think of anything else so do that for the time being.
Changes implemented and i updated the Checks and Counters section
 
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