[WIP] Azelf [Update]

[kokoloko]

[pimg]487[/pimg]
Azelf

[Overview]

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Zen Headbutt
move 2: Fire Punch / Ice Punch
move 3: Explosion
move 4: U-turn / Trick
item: Choice Band
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• Works well in the lead spot
• Explosion OHKOs Support Heatran and Scarf Tyranitar without SR and their more bulky counterparts with it
• Can use LO instead of CB as many of the same KOs are still achieved

[SET]
name: Classic Lead
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Fire Blast / Taunt
move 3: Psychic / Taunt
move 4: Explosion
item: Focus Sash
nature: Naive
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• Can use LO

[SET]
name: Colbur Berry Lead
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Taunt
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Explosion
item: Colbur Berry
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

[SET]
name: Dual Screens
move 1: Reflect
move 2: Light Screen
move 3: Taunt / Stealth Rock
move 4: Explosion / Stealth Rock
item: Light Clay
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

[SET]
name: Life Orb
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Flamethrower / Fire Blast
move 3: Grass Knot / Hidden Power Ground
move 4: Nasty Plot / Explosion / Stealth Rock
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid / Naive
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

[Other Options]

[Checks and Counters]

 

[kokoloko]

Same deal as the Flygon thread. I'll work on this a bit at a time, but feel free to comment on what's there as I put it up...

so like set order / naming right now

 

[Tomahawk]

Deslash Adamant. Really, the Speed is much much more important than the power, not tieing with Starmie or outspeeding Infernape and Gengar is not worth it. Mention 144 Atk / 112 SpD / 252 Spe in the additional comments, this spread always survives a LO Starmie Hydro Pump and OHKOes with U-turn in case you lose the Speed tie.

Classic Lead and Colbur are fine, also the order seems right. Dual Screens seems good as well.

I would change the last set around a little: deslash Expert Belt and rename it Life Orb. Expert Belt isn't really useful since Azelf is really frail and the extra power on things you don't have super effectively is kind of a necessity. For example, Psychic doesn't even 2HKO offensive Gyarados without if you don't have rocks up. Also, +2 Psychic doesn't KO bulky Dragonite, unboosted Psychic doesn't KO -SpD nature Dragonite after SR and one round of LO, etc.

Replace Hidden Power Fighting with Hidden Power Ground. HP Fighting is quite useless because Grass Knot is already 120 BP against Tyranitar, meaning the difference in damage is neglible (or w/e that word is spelled). Hidden Power Ground on the other hand KOes Timid Heatran all the time after Stealth Rock, and 73% of the time without it. Currently, Heatran walls you, which sucks since it's on pretty much half of all teams. Also, HP Ground lets you actually speedtie with Starmie and other Azelf. Also, consider slashing Stealth Rock after Nasty Plot and Explosion: it's pretty effective in providing offensive presence and also setting up SR, similar to Psycho Boost / Superpower / Hidden Power Fire / Stealth Rock @ Life Orb Deoxys-S before it was banned in BW OU.

Edit: well, 252 HP Heatran isn't really common and Azelf still KOes a 4 HP Heatran. Tyranitar on the other hand will switch in on Azelf right away usually, so unless you plan on using Explosion on turn 1 it is quite useless since Tyranitar can just trap you with Pursuit or you U-turn and bring it in Explosion KO range. Not to mention Jolly Explosion still has a 67% chance of OHKOing standard CB Tyranitar without Stealth Rock.

 

[kokoloko]

^ okay done.

Reason I had Adamant slashed in on CB was because it KOs 252 HP Heatran and standard CB Tyranitar with Explosion without the need for SR. I suppose I'll just mention that in AC though.

 

[Warped Worlds]

Slash Ice Punch with Fire Punch on the physical choice set.

Ice Punch can OHKO Gliscor and Dragonite leads. Heatran is also a very common partner for CB Azelf, so losing Fire Punch probably wouldn't hurt that much depending on your team's needs.

 

[whistle]

Sitrus Berry lead beats Machamp Metagross Roserade and Heatran with 248 HP / 44 Def :justin:. Basically you trade Tyranitar for Metagross.

OO or possibly mention under AC for Colbur set.

Fire Blast > Flamethrower on LO set?

 

[Tomahawk]

Actually Flamethrower is the better option for the Life Orb set. Azelf is really frail, so you can't afford to miss as that means the fall of Azelf a lot of the time. Also, it doesn't really get any notable KOes afaik, especially after a Nasty Plot boost. I suppose it could be slashed, but definitely make Flamethrower the main option.

 

[kokoloko]

Nah, Fire Blast is better:

Fire Blast on 0/4 Jirachi: 96.8% - 114.4% - OHKO after SR
Flamethrower on 0/4 Jirachi: 76.2% - 90.3% - not even a chance to OHKO after SR.

(so obviously the same thing applies to Celebi and Shaymin)

I'll probably slash them and mention how Flamethrower is better with NP though.

also @ the edit to your previous post: 252 HP Heatran is common lol ever heard of SpD Tran? Still agree on only giving Adamant an AC mention instead of a slash though.

 

[shrang]

Is there any reason why CB is first? I've always had the impression that standard suicide lead Azelf was the standard.

 

[Tomahawk]

Yes, I have heard of SpD Tran, and from experience I know it's a great set. However, what I meant was that it's not common enough to warrant an Adamant slash. Though always KOing Metagross without SR with Explosion is also pretty good, so you might want to mention that in AC as well.

Also, if you're gonna slash Flamethrower and Fire Blast, you should probably make Flamethrower the main slash since Nasty Plot is the main slash as well. However, mention Fire Blast is better without Nasty Plot, because of Jirachi, didn't know that (though I mostly see CM it's still relevant).

And shrang, CB Azelf has kind of taken over standard suicide lead Azelf, and it is mostly better anyways.

 

[shrang]

Where are the stats for CB Azelf > suicide lead? The last stats that were relevant for a serious competitive metagame for DPP is DJD's August 2010 stats (let's face it, who played DPP after that?), and they had:

| Azelf | Usage | 122374 | 12.7 |
| Azelf | Ability | Levitate | 100.0 |
| Azelf | Item | Focus Sash | 39.5 |
| Azelf | Item | Life Orb | 15.4 |
| Azelf | Item | Colbur Berry | 12.7 |
| Azelf | Item | Other (7) | < 8.4 |
| Azelf | Nature | Naive | 37.2 |
| Azelf | Nature | Jolly | 34.0 |
| Azelf | Nature | Timid | 19.5 |
| Azelf | Nature | Other (3) | < 4.3 |
| Azelf | HP EV | None | 84.8 |
| Azelf | HP EV | Max | 13.1 |
| Azelf | HP EV | Very Low (<50) | 2.1 |
| Azelf | Attack EV | None | 62.8 |
| Azelf | Attack EV | Max | 19.0 |
| Azelf | Attack EV | Other (4) | < 8.8 |
| Azelf | Defense EV | None | 98.7 |
| Azelf | Defense EV | Very Low (<50) | 1.3 |
| Azelf | SpAttack EV | Max | 53.4 |
| Azelf | SpAttack EV | None | 42.8 |
| Azelf | SpAttack EV | Other (2) | < 2.3 |
| Azelf | SpDefense EV | None | 92.4 |
| Azelf | SpDefense EV | Medium (100-150) | 7.6 |
| Azelf | Speed EV | Max | 82.3 |
| Azelf | Speed EV | Very High (200+) | 15.9 |
| Azelf | Speed EV | None | 1.8 |
| Azelf | Move | Explosion | 74.5 |
| Azelf | Move | Stealth Rock | 66.5 |
| Azelf | Move | Psychic | 47.1 |
| Azelf | Move | Taunt | 41.6 |
| Azelf | Move | U-turn | 32.4 |
| Azelf | Move | Flamethrower | 23.6 |
| Azelf | Move | Fire Blast | 22.7 |
| Azelf | Move | Grass Knot | 12.1 |
| Azelf | Move | Zen Headbutt | 11.9 |
| Azelf | Move | Nasty Plot | 8.4 |
| Azelf | Move | Reflect | 8.1 |
| Azelf | Move | Light Screen | 7.6 |
| Azelf | Move | Other (11) | < 7.2 |

CB isn't even on there.

 

[undisputed]

Choice Band Azelf is one of those things that elite players use a lot. It hasn't really caught on in lower tier play, but CB Azelf is my number one concern if I'm playing another good player and their lead is Azelf. There are several, well documented teams using it as well.

 

[metsrule158]

possibly choice scarf / specs set?

 

[Andy Snype]

The problem with SpecsZelf is that it doesn't really have that much coverage, and its main STAB is resisted by a lot of things that naturally come in on it: Heatran, Tyranitar, Scizor, given Azelf's most popular Special moves are: Psychic and Flamethrower. At least with Choice Band, you have access to U-Turn and Explosion. Choice Scarf Azelf is gimmicky, but it has its merits in revenge killing as it outspeeds Flygon and the occasional Scarf Gengar and has access to the elemental punches to revenge kill +1 Dnite/Gyarados. I'd rather see that as an AC mention for the Choice Band set or as OO.

Classic Lead though is SR, Psychic, Fire Blast, Explosion. That's how it was mid-DPP and that set has been known to be Lead Azelf's set since the Latias Meta (I didn't play during the metas beforehand so I cannot say for anything beforehand.) If you're going to slash Taunt in there, it should be the secondary slash for Fire Blast. Also, feel free to have a second slash (or AC mention if you see it for that) for Life Orb as iirc LO Psychic OHKOes non-Sash Machamp leads and were popular for a brief amount of time.

The other sets look fine to me.

 

[kokoloko]

@^ the current on-site analysis has the exact slashes i put up in the OP for the classic lead set. I find that the only "must" on that set is Stealth Rock and the other three moves can be pretty much anything. I would personally never use the classic lead nowadays so I'm not exactly sure I'm qualified to make the decision as to move and slash order. I'll just do as I'm told on that one.

Yes @ AC mention of LO.

 

[Tomahawk]

I would go with:

move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Fire Blast / Taunt
move 3: Psychic / Taunt
move 4: Explosion