"Worst Pokémon Ever"

I don't think Incineroar being bipedal is a bad thing. If it was quadrupedal like almost everyone wanted it to be, it would have been compared to Houndoom (which also has the same typing) and how Incineroar's design is superior/inferior to it, which would have been bad for both pokemon.
 
Let's just say people were going to be critical of the starter final evolutions no matter what and leave it at that.

Changing gears, Codraroll wrote an article dissecting why ice is the worst type ever. And you can read it here:http://www.smogon.com/articles/shafted-by-design

Take a read, good literature, and I mean that sincerely.

But that got me thinking. While as a whole I agree with the premise, Ice really is the most poorly designed type in the game right now, the question I have is was it always the worst type? Or was Gamefreak a lot better about game balance in the earlier generations?

Trick question, because the answer is a shocking NO! More like a MissingNO amirite? Uptop! Anyone? Don't leave me hangin'!

Yeah, Gamefreak has gone on record saying that competitive battling was one of the last features added to the original Red & Blue, so therefore the lack of balance (*cough*psychic*cough*) can be explained by lack of effort at the time. They were delivering the thrill of bug collecting with some RPG and competitive side-dishes, not on equal terms yet.

But for the sake of argument let's fire up the way back machine and look at the ice type for the first 4ish generations of pokemon:

1. Gen 1 - Nostalgia Goggles

So of the original 151, we had 5 ice-types, all final evolutions: Cloyster, Dewgong, Lapras, Jynx, and Articuno. As far as availability it was a motley crew: Cloyster, Dewgong, and Articuno required surf so were coming at about 6th gym onwards (similar to Codraroll's formula). Lapras and Jynx are weird though, in that while each required a mini-sidequest to acquire they could feasibly be put on the team at the halfway mark. Provided the player was going out of their way to acquire them, they were usable in 5 of the gyms (due to the freeform nature of Kanto post Vermilion City). So while rare, that's still 2/5's of the ice types were somewhat usable.

Stat wise this was before power-creep set in, so Jynx and Articuno could be considered faster than the pack at this point while Dewgong and Cloyster are just average (Lapras misses the benchmark a smidge).

And those weaknesses? Well, of course Steel doesn't exist yet but that's not all the boons. You see, at this time Gamefreak had this stupid silly habit of designing types without any usable core moves. So while the fighting type exists, the only pokemon with a decent fighting-type move is Hitmonlee (High Jump Kick). Everyone else? Stuck with the recoil inducing (and worst than Stone Edge accuracy) Submission. Ouchies.

While fire and rock were viable, let us also remember that three of those five are part water, meaning fire is just neutral and all the rock types are not only slower but taking quad damage from water attacks. Sure a few faster 'mons had rock slide (...okay just Kangaskhan and Dugtrio), but the majority either didn't or were too slow.

What's that? What about Aerodactyl? Sorry my friend, no Rock Slide in Gen1 or Gen2.

Meanwhile Ice got Ice Beam, which was pretty much all you needed. And for the non-water types, Jynx was psychic when that meant god-tier and Articuno was a legendary back when that carried weight. So all these factors combined and I could see a developer thinking that Ice was a well balanced and maybe a little overpowered type back then. I mean, Ice is a great offensive type and all of them (even Dewgong) were primed to abuse it.


Gen 2, the expansion pack sequel.

I kid, but Gen 2 was more like Gen 1 with extras than a true sequel, fixing some of the major flaws but not shaking up the core formula too much either.

You can see that in how it handled the type additions: dragon got one new member (Kingdra), ghost got one too (Misdreavus), and ice being semi-rare got two new lines: Piloswine and Sneasel (and Smoochum but who cares?) Feel I'm forgetting somebody though, who could it be?

Nope, haven't the foggiest idea.

Steel type showed up this generation, but none of the steel types really had any moves to exploit on the ice crowd. Fighting also got shafted again, as while a few 'mons got some minor toys (Machamp gets the inaccurate Cross Chop to use) the type as a whole has yet to really make a presence. Meanwhile fire still has a mixed job handling ice-types as most still pack coverage moves.

The only real new threat to ice is Tyranitar, which being the pseudo legendary that stands to reason. Oh but wait, base 60 speed means it can only outrun Piloswine and tie with Lapras. Bummer man.

As for the late-commer syndrome, this generation probably cemented the ice route placement right after the 6th or 7th gym. Yet despite this, Lapras is still available after gym 4 (provided you backtrack on a Friday), so there are some options. Still don't see why it takes forever to get Seel or Shellder though, it's not like the Whirl Islands were that special that we had to wait on them.

Want to draw a special mention of hail, because at this point while underwhelming compared to rain or sun it still was a better weather than sandstorm, since it at least made Blizzard 100% accurate while Sandstorm carries no passive benefits to rock types at this point.

So Gen 2 introduces some new threats, but still the ice type is looking pretty healthy. Will it hold out for another generation?


Gen 3, direct to video

Gen 3 was about the time Gamefreak started making certain types not so rare, with increased numbers of ghost, dragon, dark, and steel pokemon when they all use to be pretty rare. Ice type also benefited from the pokedex expansion, as three more families made for a much more sizeable roster. But admittedly, two of them are slow and bulky and the last one is average in every way (literally, 80's in every stat).

But the changes are both good and bad, as fighting becomes a real threat in this generation, gaining some new competent fighters like Blaziken along with an actually decent attack in Brick Break, albeit a bit lacking power-wise. Steel and rock get a bit better too, Aerodactyl finally getting Rock Slide, but still have a generation to really break the mold.

Despite these cracks in the ice, the type remains pretty solid. Regice is OU in this generation, and is considered an effective special attacking wall. Can you believe it? An ice type wall, doing the job Gamefreak intended for it. What a world it must have been. Lapras is still considered a contender, and Walrein (or should I say Stallrein) starts to leave a mark in lower tiers.

Availability took it's fatal shot though, as Hoenn's ice types are all in a secluded cave around the seventh gym with nothing more to say for it.

So overall ice seemed to lose more than it gained this generation, but given that it seemed to be getting along fine despite that I can't really fault the developers for thinking the type was balanced. Oh those poor fools, they had no idea what they unleashed in Gen 4.


Gen 4, those sneaky pebbles

Oh boy, if Gen 3 started to put cracks in the Ice type then Gen 4 took that and nuked it into oblivion. This was the generation that cemented the poorly designed ice type in our minds, the unloved child gamefreak desperately wants to be a tank when it just can't do it.

Where should we start? Well, the physcial/special split happened and with it came coverage moves galore. Rock gets Stone Edge, Fighting gets Close Combat, Steel gets Iron Head, they were just throwing them out like Oprah's Holiday Gift Show.

But in addition to good moves they also through in good 'mons, and this was the generation that had Power Creep rear it's ugly head. Old pokemon gained new evolutions, new 'mons with min-maxed stats were popping up (Garchomp, Lucario, others). Suddenly what was fast isn't fast enough, what was bulk isn't bulking enough. It's the game formula tipped on it's head, pure chaos. Good chaos as a whole, but terrible for the ice type.

And worst of all, Scizor, long held as a so-so evolution of Scyther gained the power to become a monster: bullet punch.

But even Scizor's evolution into a demon is nothing compared to the most meta-game centralizing move: Stealth Rock. Does it need mention? Stealth Rock divided the metagame into three camps: those that could handle it, those worth handling despite it, and those that were 4x weak. While ice wasn't the only one punished for it, in addition to all the changes listed above it was the final blow in a killer combo.

On the weather wars, while Snow Warning gave Ice a new reliable Hail setter, hail actually dropped to worst weather ever with Sandstorm now passively boosting the special defense of rock types.

So now all four Ice weaknesses, once mostly held in check by their own incompetence, are now stronger than ever before. Did ice gain anything in return?

Well, Weavile and Mamoswine appeared and gave ice type their two stalwart saviors from fading into obscurity, with Weaviles blistering speed with killer attack and Mamoswine's ground type neutralizing the threat of stealth rock. As far as new moves, Ice Shard seemed like the cure to many of the type's speed issues but only Mamoswine could really take advantage of it. Other honorable mentions are the kinda speedy Froslass and the hail-setter Abomasnow, but while okay both don't really compare to Weavile or Mamoswine.

But given that these two 'mons were good, really good even, I can almost see a developer patting themselves on the back think everything is fine while outside Rome is burning. I think Gamefreak didn't quite understand how much stealth rock was changing the game, and probably could not see the effects on ice type as a whole when Weavile and Mamoswine were proving to be successful exceptions.

In-game is more of a sad old story, most ice-types are all located in the far north after passing through THE WORST ROUTE EVER CREATED IN THE HISTORY OF POKEMON (aka the Snowpoint City death course).


So there you have it, in my opinion the type didn't truly fall into a rut until Gen 4. But while this does mean that ice type hasn't been awful forever (just awful since modern mechanics were implemented, which is like forever), it just changes the question from why did Gamefreak unbalance ice types to why haven't they fixed it post-Gen4?
 
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I have returned, fellow Smogoners.
Can we take a moment to talk about Wobuffet? Its stats are horrid(except for HP), and it can only counterattack. It doesn't even get Substitute, a dirt-cheap attack learned by almost everybody. Besides that, there is a catch to its "niche:" it's useless against things that aren't actual attacks. This means that Toxic and Will-O-Wisp will be a death sentence to it, and it will be forced to just keep throwing up random Counters and Mirrot Coats in the hopes that it can kill something. Sableye in particular loves to play with Wobbuffet; it is immune to both Counter and Mirror Coat, gets a Prankster-boosted Will-O-Wisp and Taunt, and can eventually pound Wobbuffet flat with repeated Knock Offs. Yes, Wobuffet gets Shadow Tag, but that's its only good side in a sea of bad sides.
Look at Wobuffet. Is it a punching bag? A balloon? And what's the name? Wobuffet? The only thing remotely entertaining is that I can make "Woba Fett(Wobbuffet + Boba Fett)" jokes.
My next review will be Phione, hands down THE WORST LEGENDARY EVER. What else would you expect from a shitty version of Glalie, who is in turn a shitty version of Celebi?
 

Xen

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If we're talking solely about in-game, then Wobbuffet is a perfect candidate for the list. A Potion hog that has to take hits in order to dish damage back (and being at the mercy of the RNG as a result) is the polar opposite of what you want on your in-game team. Ironically enough, Wobbuffet actually gets worse the higher its level is compared to the trainers you are battling, since it'll take less damage and thus deal less damage back as a result. Not sure if I'd say that status is a death sentence to it though; it may not be able to directly counter status, but it can block it with Safeguard.

Now if we're talking competitive, then Wobbuffet's story is different; a well played Wobb will guarantee at least a kill and generate nice situations for your other Pokemon to exploit thanks to Encore + Shadow Tag. The environment in general is also less prone to guessing since you can generally expect certain Pokemon to be carrying and using certain moves, along with the occasional Choice item.

Phione....I already brought him up a few pages back; there's nothing about him worth defending. lol
 
Can we all just......talk about this disappointment? I know, pure Grass and Leaf Guard, it would've been a miracle is it was even marginally competitive, but it still hurts. A lot.



Also first time posting here, ayyy.
 

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Can we all just......talk about this disappointment? I know, pure Grass and Leaf Guard, it would've been a miracle is it was even marginally competitive, but it still hurts. A lot.



Also first time posting here, ayyy.
You know it gets contrary and leaf storm right?

I mean, Serperior is superior at it but it's still better than nothing. Hopefully when the Move Tutors return this thing can pick up Superpower or something.
 
Gokuzbu never underestimate the power of +6 BP'd Unown with Specs:
+6 252+ SpA Unown Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 390-460 (120.3 - 141.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ SpA Choice Specs Unown Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 408-480 (100.9 - 118.8%)
+6 252+ SpA Choice Specs Unown Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 482-568 (122.3 - 144.1%)
+6 252+ SpA Choice Specs Unown Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 1028-1212 (292 - 344.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ SpA Choice Specs Unown Hidden Power Ghost vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mewtwo: 634-748 (179.6 - 211.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ SpA Choice Specs Unown Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 523-616 (152 - 179%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Unown is deadly
And how do we go to +6
 

HotFuzzBall

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Can we all just......talk about this disappointment? I know, pure Grass and Leaf Guard, it would've been a miracle is it was even marginally competitive, but it still hurts. A lot.

Also first time posting here, ayyy.
I can see Lurantis being an offensive Defog user in PU maybe (it won't be like outstanding, I feel like it'd be a very niche pick) due to Contrary Leaf Storm. But yeah this mon kinda sucked considering it was one of the harder totem bosses (if you didn't start Litten or have Salazzle) in the game. Hopefully move tutors will give it like actual coverage options since it has a terrible movepool despite okay-ish stats.
 
I
I can see Lurantis being an offensive Defog user in PU maybe (it won't be like outstanding, I feel like it'd be a very niche pick) due to Contrary Leaf Storm. But yeah this mon kinda sucked considering it was one of the harder totem bosses (if you didn't start Litten or have Salazzle) in the game. Hopefully move tutors will give it like actual coverage options since it has a terrible movepool despite okay-ish stats.
Its terribly outclassed by serperior its is not even needed
 
I can see Lurantis being an offensive Defog user in PU maybe (it won't be like outstanding, I feel like it'd be a very niche pick) due to Contrary Leaf Storm. But yeah this mon kinda sucked considering it was one of the harder totem bosses (if you didn't start Litten or have Salazzle) in the game. Hopefully move tutors will give it like actual coverage options since it has a terrible movepool despite okay-ish stats.
I can very easily just name all the things that went wrong with this mon (there might be more, but this is from my point of view):

1.made a physical Contrary abuser, but gave it a special move - was it really that hard to make a physical variant of Leaf Storm ? "NAAH let's give it a physical version of Solar Beam cause everyone uses Solar Beam, right guys?"

2.they really dropped the ball with the ability - yeah Leaf Guard makes sense, but you wanna know another ability that makes sense and it fits thematically both it and its pre-evo ? Chlorophyll. Why give it a signature move that needs the sun to work properly, but not an ability to synergies with said move ?

Note: I know Leaf Guard is also a weather based ability, but you don't make a mon with a defensive ability (I think at least, I know no pokemon that runs this ability in a serious way) have thin defenses like that (70/90/90 is not actually thin so to say, but comparative to the juggernauts introduced this gen and in previous ones......yeah it's pretty thin)

3.it's to slow - Alolan mons have the reputation of being slow (physically, I don't know there mental capacity) sometimes to slow for there own good and Lurantis is one of them. I kinda get what they were trying to do, a pokemon with Contrary that could potentially abuse TR and snag a boost or two. Yey such a great idea, until you realise TR is not infinite and you haven't boosted you Speed in any way. Speaking of which:

4.not enough moves to abuse Contrary - yeah Serperior got only Leaf Storm, but it has the Speed to take full advantage of this gimmick. Malamar got Superpower only and it........wait is Malamar still relevant ?

5.the Grass type - yeah I said it, even if Grass is one of my favorite types, even I acknowledge how abysmal it can be when it comes to coverage and being a pure type is possibility worst case scenario. Yeah Tangrowth made it, but Tang is Tang, it does what it wants to. And Lurantis, again, is no exception, the only decent coverage you could use for a physical set are Brick Break, Poison Jab and Leech Life. What does Special have? Hidden Power and Weather Ball (lol) which, again could've easily played as your optional Fire coverage (fun fact: when using WB Normalium-Z in the Sun, it becomes Inferno Overdrive) and therefore freeing HP for a more usefull type HAD IT HAD CHLOROPHYLL.

In conclusion, do I REALLY see Lurantis as the worst pokemon? No, not by a long shot. It has at least some applications and therefore not making it completly useless unlike some other Grass types (looking at you Maractus). But it's so sad seeing such a good design and concept go to waist on a mon that I can hardly call mediocre. It still has a place in my heart since I like it to much to start hating it, but the potential it could've had is just to good to pass.
 
Lurantis' only crime is that "physical Grass-type" is a real crowded niche in Alola (in addition to Lurantis, there's Decidueye, Tsareena, Dhelmise, Alolan Exeggutor, and Kartana, plus a couple carryovers from older generations, and that's just in the alola dex proper)

It's not bad really, it's just outclassed.
 
Physical Solar Beam would be neat if it had chlorophyll, half decent speed, ok coverage and wasn't a Lurantis.
 
284 SpA with optimal EV investment, a Modest Nature, and 80 Base. I have swept ENTIRE TEAMS with Lurantis alone. For context, here are some calculations I made:

252+ SpA Lurantis Leaf Storm vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 201-237 (57.1 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Lurantis Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 192-226 (68.3 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Lurantis Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gigalith: 408-480 (109 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Lurantis Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bewear: 255-300 (66.9 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Lurantis Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 177-208 (70.5 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So there you go, it can 2HKO a lot of top-tier Pokemon, and while it may be outclassed in some roles, it is NOT useless.

Just for fun, I'm gonna see what a Magikarp can do to several different Pokemon.
252+ Atk Magikarp Tackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 18-22 (5.5 - 6.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ Atk Magikarp Tackle vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Druddigon(aka the most broken RU mon ever jk): 18-22 (5.1 - 6.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ Atk Magikarp Tackle vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Metagross: 6-8 (1.9 - 2.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ Atk Magikarp Tackle vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Scyther: 20-24 (7.1 - 8.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ Atk Magikarp Tackle vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lurantis: 18-22 (6.3 - 7.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ Atk Magikarp Tackle vs. 76 HP / 236+ Def Onix: 4-5 (1.7 - 2.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ Atk Magikarp Tackle vs. 204 HP / 32 Def Wobbuffet: 24-29 (4.1 - 5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ Atk Magikarp Tackle vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 14-17 (3.6 - 4.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever

They weren't kidding when they said Magikarp was a pathetic excuse for a Pokemon...
 
I nominate Meganium.
1 Design I have always thought this is a lazy design it's another plant infested dinosaur.
2 Usefulness this is a stalling Pokemon it's not even very good at that Bayleaf is better
3 in Gen 2 games you have to use this as a starter pick this as your first Pokemon I think not.
 

Xen

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I nominate Meganium.
1 Design I have always thought this is a lazy design it's another plant infested dinosaur.
2 Usefulness this is a stalling Pokemon it's not even very good at that Bayleaf is better
3 in Gen 2 games you have to use this as a starter pick this as your first Pokemon I think not.
I agree that Meganium has a lot of problems (although I do like it personally), but how exactly is it worse than Bayleef?
 
The Chikorita line gets such a bad rap. I agree that it's the least useful starter in GSC and HGSS. However, isn't it okay to have a 'hard mode' option? I picked him since he was my favorite looking starter, and my opinion still hasn't changed. And it really isn't bad for regular opponents, which is fine to me.
To make this post relevant, I think either Dedenne or Togedemaru, simply because they are so...uninspired.

Edit: Did Xen just get modded? If yes, congrats!
 
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Chikorita is easily among the worst starters of all time from a gameplay standpoint, but I don't think that's all we should really count. It's cute, adorable, loveable... I love her.
Meganium also has its own utility niches, either as a SpD Tank support, or as I use Meganium, as a dual shields setter. Sure, that's for the metagame, you can still spec it for ingame fights and do just fine.
 
I hate Ash-Greninja the most, but if we count competitive in, probably Sunkern
Terrible stats, pretty bad evolution and a mediocre design
But at least it's somewhat cute
 
Beautifly. Not only is it absolutely horrible in any competitive battle and a total rip-off of Butterfree, but its name flat-out lies! Even Delibird is more respectible than that abomination.
 
Beautifly. Not only is it absolutely horrible in any competitive battle and a total rip-off of Butterfree, but its name flat-out lies! Even Delibird is more respectible than that abomination.
You can run Beautifly as a Butterfree/Venomoth variant. It gets access to almost all the same moves except Sleep Powder and Poison moves. Air Cutter Beautifly is a nice bump to hit Fighting and Bug for STAB+Super, something Venomoth can't do. You can bait/stop set up Pokemon with Whirlwind, as most people won't think twice about setting up on it. It also gets access to support in Electroweb/String Shot and alternative active recovery in Morning Sun, which both can be niche but also helpful.

Beautifly does have massive flaws, but to say it's utterly horrid competitively shadows what it can do. Every Pokemon has a use, just need to work with them and know how to play them.

Also, Beautifly is based on a Swallowtail butterfly, while Butterfree is based on a black-veined white butterfly. Similar, but not the same at all.
 
You can run Beautifly as a Butterfree/Venomoth variant. It gets access to almost all the same moves except Sleep Powder and Poison moves. Air Cutter Beautifly is a nice bump to hit Fighting and Bug for STAB+Super, something Venomoth can't do. You can bait/stop set up Pokemon with Whirlwind, as most people won't think twice about setting up on it. It also gets access to support in Electroweb/String Shot and alternative active recovery in Morning Sun, which both can be niche but also helpful.

Beautifly does have massive flaws, but to say it's utterly horrid competitively shadows what it can do. Every Pokemon has a use, just need to work with them and know how to play them.

Also, Beautifly is based on a Swallowtail butterfly, while Butterfree is based on a black-veined white butterfly. Similar, but not the same at all.
Beautifly is completely overshadowed by Butterfree, which gets Tinted Lens. And if you're using Butterfree, it's pretty much established you're scraping the bottom of the barrel, and to be worse than that is really embarrassing. Sure, it has niche options which might come in handy once every thousand years, but it's not worth being walled by a ton of crap.

And just because it's a slightly different species of butterfly does not make it original. It's not like Kingdra vs. Dragalge, which have similar inspirations but look and play differently. People criticize the Pikaclones a lot, but they're a trillion times more distinct than Butterfree and Beautifly are. They share the same type and like 95% of a movepool. Besides, Beautifly is still incredibly ugly.
 

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