CAP 5 CAP 5 - Part 10c (New Move Poll 2)

[tennisace]

Break the Mold-Click here to see the full post.

Name: Break the Mold

Description:
An OU viable pokemon that goes completely against the stereotypes of its typing.

Type: Rock

Offensive/Defensive Bias: Offensive 20-40
Physical/Special Bias: Special -20 and lower
Base Stat Rating: Very Good
Base Stats:90/60/65/120/70/130 Speed Last
Primary Ability: Levitate
Secondary Ability: Technician
Moves Not Allowed in the Movepool: Blizzard, Grass Knot, Focus Punch, Silver Wind

Art By yourDeadGrandad

The top 4 moved on.

Name: ____________ (Dust Cloud?)
BP: 95 (like I said, flamethrower clone)
PP: 15
Acc: 100%
Effect: Has a 30% chance of setting up sandstorm

Ancient Beam
Type: Rock
BP: 85
PP: 15
Acc: 100%
Damage: Special
Effect: 20% chance to reduce opponent's attack by 1.

Name: Brimstone/Coal Blast
BP: 80
PP: 15
Acc: 100%
Damage: Special
Effect: 30% chance of burning the opponent.

Diamond Core
Special
Rock
Power: 80
Accuracy: 100
Effect: 20% chance to burn, confuse, or paralyze.

Rock Tri-Attack?

 

[Zoro]

Ancient Beam

Imo, it fits the best.. seems not too broken for me as it doesnt eliminate counter ( well, you could lower the att of a physical Sweeper, but firstly, the chance this happens isnt that high, and secondly, you can just switch out.

I srsly hope this one wins.

 

[billymills]

Voted brimstone because it won the last poll, and there hopefully won't be a need for anymore polls. go 50%+

I am against new moves in general, i don't see anything good coming from making a new move, so i hope we can move to something more fundamental to CAP5.

 

[Deck Knight]

Ancient Beam for great justice!

 

[Goodbar]

I'm not horribly fond of any of the choices, but I'm going to vote for one that ironically I didn't vote for last time - ancient beam, cheers deck knight :)

 

[Admiral_Stalfos19]

Brimstone FTW

 

[Fishin]

Definitely Ancient Beam. Burn as a side effect messes up far too many potential counters. It single-handedly turns something like Metagross or Lucario from a good check into a terrible switch-in. -1 attack is less of a drop, doesn't cause damage, and its only temporary. I also have some qualms about why a Rock-type attack is causing burn (especially since this doesn't look like it would use heat), but that's far less of a concern.

 

[Tingaling]

Voted dust cloud because it's mine, but if not I would have voted ancient beam

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Brimstone again. Breaking the mold with a decent move.

Competitive, Brimstone will leave a big impact onto the metagame. In terms of usefulness, this move will not only give Rockmon a decently strong move on non-Technician set, but the effect from the move will also help it's weak defense by cushioning blow dealt to him by physical attacker. Team members will benefit from it as well as the burn status removes potent threat(s) from the game.

Now while people believe the burn effect is too much of a good thing (>_>) they're still hope for those whom want to find a way around it. Gut users like Heracross and Machamp greatly benefit from the status with their ability to raise their attack by 1.5. They resist Brimstone and can easily threaten Rockmon away either by priority moves or Choice Scarf. Lum Berry is another way to get around the burn status and some of it's physical counter do actually use it in combat. Heal Beller increase in usage as well, and one of them actually stop Rockmon dead in his track most of the time. Having Natural Cure helps too.

Edit: What happened to Power Gem? Is that considered fair game within the final movepool?

 

[You can call me X]

I really like diamond core, but i know it isn't going to win.
it would've been a nice sweeping move.

 

[Fishin]

Most of those physical "counters" that people believe will stop him are really checks/revenge killers. Scizor is 2HKO by Rockmon's stab move and OHKO by any Fire move it got. Lucario and Metagross have problems switching into either Rockmon's Earth Power or Flamethrower, Luke being OHKO'd while Meta is 2HKO'd. Brimstone's burn effect isn't broken when most of his "counters" already have fears about switching into the wrong move.

See, that's exactly why it's a bad idea. Something like Lucario or Metagross can win with proper prediction if they come in on the right move normally. With Burn thrown in the mix, they have a 30% chance of being screwed over even if they come in on the right move. It also stands a chance of crippling a whole lot of other random pokemon not named Blissey that could act as counters for the rest of the fight, like Swampert or Revenankh (maybe not with SS but it still hurts while burn is still there).

 

[tennisace]

Power Gem is fair game still, if someone chooses not to put the new move in thats what will likely be in its place.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

See, that's exactly why it's a bad idea. Something like Lucario or Metagross can win with proper prediction if they come in on the right move normally. With Burn thrown in the mix, they have a 30% chance of being screwed over even if they come in on the right move.

Or fail miserably as they come in on the wrong move or a Sub. To be honest with you, that was the point of a move that have an effect of reducing it's "counters" attack to effectively reduce some attack/damage from physical attackers. Burn does a great job at doing just that, and some indirect team support is icing on the cake. If Brimstone somehow wins this poll, you always have the chance of not using it and use TechAP or Power Gem. Power Gem is only 10 BP lower than Brimstone...not that far off.

It also stands a chance of crippling a whole lot of other random pokemon not named Blissey that could act as counters for the rest of the fight, like Swampert or Revenankh (maybe not with SS but it still hurts while burn is still there).

Those unknown counter are counter depending on the lack of SE move Rockmon is holding at the time. They're no guarantee that Rockmon will have a move for Swampy/Revvy/whoever or not.

 

[Deck Knight]

Oh yeah, and one last note on how ridiculous Brimstone is, I just thought of this earlier today.

Brimstone is going to be a burning move that not only does not activate flash fire (Tri Attack exempted), it will be Super Effective against fire types. So carrying the type that would normally discourage burning moves for the switchin they represent will now be fruitless. So basically, SPAM for burn. Fire types can't stop you, in fact, fire types get super duper hurt by molten rock, even though they use it in one of their attacks, Lava Plume. Go for a Burn that deals massive damage for fire types. Go for a burn that hits every type...

But whatever, if it wins it wins, I suppose.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Was going to say something about DK comment, but I just thought "Why would any normal minded Fire type switch into Rockmon in the first place?". I mean if Rockmon had WoW instead, no Fire type would still not dare switching into Rockmon for fear of Earth Power or Stabbed move except for maybe Scarftran or Mach Punch nape. Even then nape and tran have to wary of EP as they don't like eating ground moves all that much. Brimstone and it's side effect isn't as broken as everyone is making it to be.

 

[DougJustDoug]

Burn is a status. It is typeless. Statuses do not activate type-based abilities. Burn does not activate Flash Fire, WoW activates Flash Fire. It's perfectly OK if Brimstone doesn't activate Flash Fire. Body Slam doesn't activate Motor Drive, despite the fact that PAR is typically considered an "electric status". If Electivire hits a Pikachu with a physical attack, it still gets Paralyzed and Motor Drive does not activate. Brimstone isn't much different. It simply has a chance to induce a status.

I'm still not voting for Brimstone, but not because of the status not "fitting" the common perception that Burn = Fire. I'm voting for Ancient Beam because I like the idea of a possible ATK drop than could force a switch, without crippling the opponent.

 

[TAY]

I need to throw out some support for Dust Cloud. Having a % chance to set up a weather effect is a really cool concept, and as much as I like Brimstone, Dust Cloud is both very original and certainly not game-breaking. So I think it would be cool to do something totally new!

 

[Flash_gearz]

Oh yeah, and one last note on how ridiculous Brimstone is, I just thought of this earlier today.

Brimstone is going to be a burning move that not only does not activate flash fire (Tri Attack exempted), it will be Super Effective against fire types. So carrying the type that would normally discourage burning moves for the switchin they represent will now be fruitless. So basically, SPAM for burn. Fire types can't stop you, in fact, fire types get super duper hurt by molten rock, even though they use it in one of their attacks, Lava Plume. Go for a Burn that deals massive damage for fire types. Go for a burn that hits every type...

But whatever, if it wins it wins, I suppose.

Somthing wrong with your theory. No one is ever going to switch in a fire type on this. The only ones I can see switching in are Heatran, and Camurupt. Assuming we give it Earth Power(Or even Hidden Power Ground) it does the same thing as Shaymin, out speed and kill with it.

I voted for Dust Cloud though. It does so much for him. Solid damage, can set up sandstorm, and has stab. Not to forget about the S.Defense boost.

 

[ParadOxymoron]

I should have voted for Brimstone. I really think that it is the best thing for this Pokemon. It's remarkably elegant while still breaking new ground, and it's awesome altogether.

 

[ChronoSquare]

Hmmm, the only difference between Brimstone and Diamond Core is that one is 30% burn, while the other is 20% tri-attack statuses... torn between these and Ancient Beam, but in the end I must say I like Diamond Core more, despite its current status. I like the flavor that it implies moreso than Brimstone... I guess it's just me being biased towards wanting something crystaline-based to have won art, but meh heh heh whatever...

Y'know, for creating all these new moves, we really shouldn't be making these so exclusive. In future caps/new evos perhaps we could consider re-using some of these? (That is another reason why I voted for Diamond Core... it looks like it would apply to more rock pokemon; heck, to more pokemon in general, than Brimstone... I could totally see something like Porygon-Z using Diamond Core; etc.)

 

[X-Act]

Power Gem is fair game still, if someone chooses not to put the new move in thats what will likely be in its place.

I think both moves could be in the movepool too, right? I mean, both Power Gem and whatever wins this poll.

 

[eric the espeon]

No love for Dust Cloud?
Its a very nice idea, SS from an offensive attack.. And would be a nice interesting boost when it came into play.

 

[Deck Knight]

Burn is a status. It is typeless. Statuses do not activate type-based abilities. Burn does not activate Flash Fire, WoW activates Flash Fire. It's perfectly OK if Brimstone doesn't activate Flash Fire. Body Slam doesn't activate Motor Drive, despite the fact that PAR is typically considered an "electric status". If Electivire hits a Pikachu with a physical attack, it still gets Paralyzed and Motor Drive does not activate. Brimstone isn't much different. It simply has a chance to induce a status.

I'm still not voting for Brimstone, but not because of the status not "fitting" the common perception that Burn = Fire. I'm voting for Ancient Beam because I like the idea of a possible ATK drop than could force a switch, without crippling the opponent.

Par's "Electric Status" was nonexistent since RBY. Glare, Body Slam, and Stun Spore have existed since pokemon was created. With the sole exception fo Tri Attack, whose animation uses the three elements anyway, Burn has always been confined to fire, and always been 10% with the exceptions, again, of RBY Fire Blast and DP Lava Plume.

I wouldn't care so much about Brimstone's effect if it were 10% Burn, but honestly: At the end of the day, we're giving this pokemon a Lava Plume that hits fire types for SE damage. Period. The PP difference is insignificant, at no point will this ever be stalling anything out.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

I wouldn't care so much about Brimstone's effect if it were 10% Burn

People bitched about Ancient Power's chance of triggering some major stat boost and that's has a 10% chance of happening. How is reducing the effect by 20 points going to help? Changing the effect rate from 30% to 20% seem like a better deal.

 

[jagged_angel]

I have to say if Brimstone's Burn chance was 10% I wouldn't be bitching about it at all. In fact I would say that then the two choices - TechAP and Brimstone would be pretty equal. TechAP has more power, Brimstone has more PP. Both have a 10% chance of a cool and useful side effect.

You ask me though, Burning the opponent is alot better than +1 to all your stats. This Rockmon still fails to priority moves after an Ancientpower boost but it doesn't after Burning the opponent.