np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

[PK Gaming]

Man remember when I / We thought the CM set was broken? I just got smacked upside the head with progression! Anyway, I stand by OTR being the best lategame cleaner in the entire OU metagame, yes even better than Excadrill. CM is still good Genny, you just need to work extra hard to gets its checks / counters out of the way first.

 

[MetaGross66]

Oh my God...
Enough of HP Ice, for the love of all that is holy I cannot stand to read another post about HP Ice.

Can we talk about Reuniclus? Because that is one bad ass pokemon. Though I've always had trouble using him, the only set that I can really get is the OTR varient, maybe because I only play offensive teams, but CM versions are usually just dead weight whenever I play them / use them. On top of that I can't really find many good partners for it. OTR is risky in such a fast game because if Reun dies and TR is still up you're kinda putting yourself "out there" in terms of speed. You need to kind of limit yourself which I've found really annoying. With the CM versions I just can't think of any really good partners. I figured Scrafty would be an awesome partner for it but in the end I found that Scrafty was just doing most of the sweeping instead.

Reuniclus is a sweet pokemon, I just can't get the bloody CM set working!

This. TR Reuniclus doesn't need too much support to function properly. It just needs Scizor to be at ~60% health for Focus Blast to KO. It also rips apart Sand teams like they're paper if they don't have a Jirachi or Blissey. Seriously, it needs more <3.

I don't get how it limits your options in team building, though. Most Pokemon are either sitting at 244 speed or above. There are lots of bulky, hard hitting Pokemon sitting below that speed like Scizor and Conkeldurr, for example. Am I missing something?

hmmm, maybe a certain latias can help CM reuniclus function better? I've tried it and it's not that bad. Here's the set if you'd like to try it. :)


Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Recover
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunder Wave
I've been using it on a sand team with reuniclus to check sun and some rain sweepers. It's purpose is to lure in tyranitar and paralyze it for Reuniclus to KO it should it decide to try to end a Reuniclus sweep. Hidden Power Fire is for Scizors. It's not that bad at its job actually. Luring in Scizors is the difficult part since some are cautious of hp fire.

 

[WinstonShnozwick]

I will concede that I was wrong about hp ice terrakion and I was wrong about everything aside from celebi. For gyara, I meant that FB doesn't ohko skarm, who can't touch you if you have taunt anyway.

I ran calcs for my mixgyara set and fire blast is a 2-3HKO if Skarm runs max hp, max sp def, and modest nature. After prior damage easily a 2hko, and skarm does nothing but whirlwind you out. I know it sounds gimmicky, but I can successfully take out Gyara's counters, and there's not much of a downside really. It's just adapting to the metagame. Because I'm getting nowhere with 5-6HKOing ferrothorn from EQ.

He's pretty good though, my testing has been nothing but rewarding so far with him.

 

[Jaetheho]

has anyone tried a reuniclus with four attacks?

life orb
hp fire
focus blast
psyshock
shadow ball?

i have only used the trick room variant, but i think an all out attacker set could work very well if you threaten things out and predict well, like coming in on a slowbro, forcing it out, and using focus blast or hp fire for tyranitar and scizor respectively.

 

[DetroitLolcat]

It would work, but it's a waste of what makes Reuniclus great: Bulk and great coverage in 2-3 moves. Reuniclus loves Recover, Calm Mind, and Trick Room, so using 4 attacks really wastes Reuniclus.

 

[IcyMan28]

It would work, but it's a waste of what makes Reuniclus great: Bulk and great coverage in 2-3 moves. Reuniclus loves Recover, Calm Mind, and Trick Room, so using 4 attacks really wastes Reuniclus.

Agreeing with this. I did experiment with HP Fire OTR Reuniclus (Focus Blast was omitted) as a Scizor lure to decent success. SpD Scizor in particular is rather ballsy, especially once they know you aren't heavily invested in defense.

OTR Reuniclus in general works as a decent lure for Tar and Scizor, since you can OHKO them on the switch (Tar will generally switch out once it sees Trick Room as Focus Blast is the standard, but Scizor isn't as hesitant).

 

[Jaetheho]

oh and also, ive been playing around with this concept for a while, and it works quite well.

so you get a duosion with an eviolite, and give it a OTR moveset. (duosion is the prevo) since duosion has slightly better bulk and same special attack at the cost of life orb and focus blast, he could perform decently.
then on the same team you have a OTR REUNICLUS with life orb.

heres how it works. duosion first sets up trick room and sweeps half the team and weaken all the reuniclus counters.
then reuniclus comes in and kills everything.

kinda like double dragon.

 

[IcyMan28]

oh and also, ive been playing around with this concept for a while, and it works quite well.

so you get a duosion with an eviolite, and give it a OTR moveset. (duosion is the prevo) since duosion has slightly better bulk and same special attack at the cost of life orb and focus blast, he could perform decently.
then on the same team you have a OTR REUNICLUS with life orb.

heres how it works. duosion first sets up trick room and sweeps half the team and weaken all the reuniclus counters.
then reuniclus comes in and kills everything.

kinda like double dragon.

At the same time, you double up on weaknesses, have two pokemon with decidedly low speed, and Duosion doesn't pack the power Reuniclus does since it must sacrifice LO. If you MUST use the strategy, use Reuniclus as a wallbreaker for Duosion, not the other way around.

 

[blarajan]

Or just don't use Duosion?

 

[November Blue]

So what are your opinions of Conkeldurr in the current metagame? Does anyone run anything other than BulkMachDrain?

He's an almost perfect switchin to Tyranitar, and checks Excadrill too. His usage should be much higher than it is now.

 

[AceTrainerJason]

So what are your opinions of Conkeldurr in the current metagame? Does anyone run anything other than BulkMachDrain?

He's an almost perfect switchin to Tyranitar, and checks Excadrill too. His usage should be much higher than it is now.

No point in it seeing as gliscor just shits on it every time, I prefer flame orb guts to hit as hard as possible being able to OHKO excadrill is a plus.

Also

I use trick reniuclus works well choice specs trick actually.

Reuniclus (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SAtk / 12 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Trick
- Shadow Ball/Recover
- Focus Blast
- Psychic/Psyshock

 

[prem]

having one counter doesnt make it bad. bu conkelfuck is still a great poke in the meta, sure rain can beat it a lot, but it is still really good.

also dont want to start this debate again but seeing a gliscor switch in is very obvious. just switch something in. just have a spinner so switching isnt an issue

 

[WinstonShnozwick]

Most conkelderps just bulk up and die without doing anything.

 

[November Blue]

Then you're fighting noobs who don't know how to use him.

As for Gliscor, just wait until Conkeldurr gets Ice Punch...

 

[Meru]

This. TR Reuniclus doesn't need too much support to function properly. It just needs Scizor to be at ~60% health for Focus Blast to KO. It also rips apart Sand teams like they're paper if they don't have a Jirachi or Blissey. Seriously, it needs more <3.

I don't get how it limits your options in team building, though. Most Pokemon are either sitting at 244 speed or above. There are lots of bulky, hard hitting Pokemon sitting below that speed like Scizor and Conkeldurr, for example. Am I missing something?

hmmm, maybe a certain latias can help CM reuniclus function better? I've tried it and it's not that bad. Here's the set if you'd like to try it. :)


Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Recover
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunder Wave
I've been using it on a sand team with reuniclus to check sun and some rain sweepers. It's purpose is to lure in tyranitar and paralyze it for Reuniclus to KO it should it decide to try to end a Reuniclus sweep. Hidden Power Fire is for Scizors. It's not that bad at its job actually. Luring in Scizors is the difficult part since some are cautious of hp fire.

Why would you use paralysis on a Tyranitar when you're planning to sweep with a TR Reuniclus?

 

[AceTrainerJason]

having one counter doesnt make it bad. bu conkelfuck is still a great poke in the meta, sure rain can beat it a lot, but it is still really good.

also dont want to start this debate again but seeing a gliscor switch in is very obvious. just switch something in. just have a spinner so switching isnt an issue

Gliscor is on pretty much on every team latios is a great check skarm can handle it volcorona sets up on it depending on the set dragonite and thundurus takes a dump on it depending on the sets they run Mence shits on it sub disable gengar shits on it gyara shits on it reinculus can take a plus 1 payback and shit on it. And the pokemon I mentioned are 25+ in usage besides mence, that is why conkeldurr isn't fairing well and building a team around him just isn't worth it. Even with ice punch a lot of pokemon still dump on him but hey he'll be a lot better but then the 4 moveslot syndrome happens.

 

[MetaGross66]

Why would you use paralysis on a Tyranitar when you're planning to sweep with a TR Reuniclus?

If you'd read my post carefully, it says it's meant to help a CM Reuniclus sweep. >_>

 

[dori]

With Conkeldurr, I wouldn't worry much about Gliscor as I would Reuniclus. You can actually beat some Gliscors, depending on the set and team. Of course those Substitute/Protect Gliscor wins out if they have TSpikes support, but if it's just run of the mill Taunt/SD, then Conkeldurr definitely has a chance.

It's obvious Conkeldurr will Bulk Up on the switch. This next move determines everything. If Gliscor Taunts while Conkeldurr spams Payback, than Gliscor can loss, seeing as how it's still taking a healthy what, 39%? The next turn it has to SD and takes another 39%. Now it finally gets to attack but by then Conkeldurr can 2HKO with Payback while Earthquake takes 3HKO to kill the Conkeldurr at that point.

If Gliscor uses SD while Conkeldurr Paybacks, then it wins cause it can 3HKO the Conkeldurr before it can 3HKO Gliscor. Of course if you SD and it Bulk Ups again, then you definitely lose. So it really comes down to the situation you're in within the battle that determines which route you take, but Gliscor is hardly a complete hard counter to Conkeldurr. The slow ass Psychics are a way bigger issue.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

It's obvious Conkeldurr will Bulk Up on the switch. This next move determines everything. If Gliscor Taunts while Conkeldurr spams Payback, than Gliscor can loss, seeing as how it's still taking a healthy what, 39%? The next turn it has to SD and takes another 39%. Now it finally gets to attack but by then Conkeldurr can 2HKO with Payback while Earthquake takes 3HKO to kill the Conkeldurr at that point.

Gliscor is gaining 12.5% health every fucking turn, even without protect thats a 4HKO. If its protecting every other turn, thats a 6HKO.

Although without taunt or swords dance, yes Conkeldurr can beat it easily.

 

[dori]

So what if it's a 4HKO? Gliscor can't do enough in return fast enough and will still end up losing. Accounting for it's 12%, you're still taking 27% every turn. You're using one of those turn to Taunt, then you outright lose. If you use the first turn to Swords Dance, then you win if it didn't Bulk Up on that turn.

Don't act like Gliscor will likely win against Conkeldurr if you don't have T-Spikes down, Guts or not. On an even playing field, Conkeldurr can very well come out on top. It's not even one of those bullshit arguments like "Well Excadrill can Rock Slide 2-3 flinches it's way to a win" because Conkeldurr can win based on one single turn that depends on the battlers.

 

[alphatron]

More so than Gliscor, you should be worried about the plethora of faster powerhouses and slowbro/reun.

Even at +1, he's getting forced out or revenged. He needs the guts boost just to kill hydrie and heatran at +1 with mach punch. And he needs to do this because they ohko him in return.

 

[AceTrainerJason]

Sub toxic protect is gliscor is becoming rather common, anyone has thoughts on it?

 

[Pocket]

It can't touch Gliscor / Bronzong / Gengar / Skarmory / Breloom? Excadrill and Heatran with Air Balloon, too.

 

[WinstonShnozwick]

Sub toxic protect is gliscor is becoming rather common, anyone has thoughts on it?

This is the annoying bastard of the year award set. I'm pretty sure anyone that's faced it hates/should hate it.

 

[alphatron]

Faced it. Set up fodder for chesto rest volc, who is also rightfully on your threat list.