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Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Metagame np: Stage 3 - 9(9) Problems
- Thread starter jake
- Start date
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Votes are in!
Glalitite = 8 ban, 1 do not ban, 0 abstain = BANNED
Pangoro = 5 ban, 2 do not ban, 2 abstain = BANNED
Cameruptite = 1 ban, 8 do not ban, 0 abstain = NOT BANNED
People who voted ban on Glalitite: Raseri, Zebraiken, Montsegur, Soulgazer, Punchshroom, Brawlfest, Hollywood, FLCL
People who voted do not ban on Glalitite: scorpdestroyer
People who voted ban on Pangoro: Zebraiken, Soulgazer, Punchshroom, Hollywood, FLCL
People who voted do not ban on Pangoro: Raseri, Montsegur
People who abstained from voting: scorpdestroyer, Brawlfest
People who voted ban on Cameruptite: Zebraiken
People who voted do not ban on Cameruptite: Raseri, Montsegur, Soulgazer, Punchshroom, Brawlfest, Hollywood, FLCL
Glalitite = 8 ban, 1 do not ban, 0 abstain = BANNED
Pangoro = 5 ban, 2 do not ban, 2 abstain = BANNED
Cameruptite = 1 ban, 8 do not ban, 0 abstain = NOT BANNED
Glalitite has been banned from NU
Glalitite was banned due to the massive amount of power Mega Glalie has. With Refrigerate-boosted attacks, Mega Glalie can OHKO or 2HKO nearly every offensive threat in NU. Mega Glalie's access to Refrigerate-boosted Explosion almost always guarantees it one KO per game in all but the absolute worst case scenarios. Beyond this, Mega Glalie has a lot of different options it can use to get past the few Pokemon that can still beat it. Ice Shard lets it stop many would-be revenge killers from taking it down. Super Fang allows it to stop any defensive counter without reliable recovery, essentially shutting down Steel-types as counters, while Earthquake also gave it good coverage to hit potential counters such as Metang and Probopass.
Because of Mega Glalie's overwhelming power, it has been banned from NU in a vote of 8 ban, 1 do not ban, and 0 abstain.
Glalitite was banned due to the massive amount of power Mega Glalie has. With Refrigerate-boosted attacks, Mega Glalie can OHKO or 2HKO nearly every offensive threat in NU. Mega Glalie's access to Refrigerate-boosted Explosion almost always guarantees it one KO per game in all but the absolute worst case scenarios. Beyond this, Mega Glalie has a lot of different options it can use to get past the few Pokemon that can still beat it. Ice Shard lets it stop many would-be revenge killers from taking it down. Super Fang allows it to stop any defensive counter without reliable recovery, essentially shutting down Steel-types as counters, while Earthquake also gave it good coverage to hit potential counters such as Metang and Probopass.
Because of Mega Glalie's overwhelming power, it has been banned from NU in a vote of 8 ban, 1 do not ban, and 0 abstain.
People who voted ban on Glalitite: Raseri, Zebraiken, Montsegur, Soulgazer, Punchshroom, Brawlfest, Hollywood, FLCL
People who voted do not ban on Glalitite: scorpdestroyer
Pangoro has been banned from NU
Pangoro has been banned from NU due to its overwhelming STABs and power. Pangoro has the ability to 2HKO nearly every defensive Pokemon in NU, while outrunning nearly every wall, making defensive teams nearly unusable. In addition, Pangoro has a great movepool that got a huge buff in ORAS, giving it better moves in almost every slot. Pangoro is also reasonably bulky, which lets it survive most non-STAB Super Effective hits, meaning it is also a threat to offensive teams, because it is very powerful.
Due to Pangoro's ability to defeat most defensive teams single handedly, while also having the tools to threaten offensive teams, it has been banned from NU in a vote of 5 ban, 2 do not ban, and 2 abstain.
Pangoro has been banned from NU due to its overwhelming STABs and power. Pangoro has the ability to 2HKO nearly every defensive Pokemon in NU, while outrunning nearly every wall, making defensive teams nearly unusable. In addition, Pangoro has a great movepool that got a huge buff in ORAS, giving it better moves in almost every slot. Pangoro is also reasonably bulky, which lets it survive most non-STAB Super Effective hits, meaning it is also a threat to offensive teams, because it is very powerful.
Due to Pangoro's ability to defeat most defensive teams single handedly, while also having the tools to threaten offensive teams, it has been banned from NU in a vote of 5 ban, 2 do not ban, and 2 abstain.
People who voted ban on Pangoro: Zebraiken, Soulgazer, Punchshroom, Hollywood, FLCL
People who voted do not ban on Pangoro: Raseri, Montsegur
People who abstained from voting: scorpdestroyer, Brawlfest
Cameruptite has not been banned from NU
While Mega Camerupt has great typing and is quite powerful, its terrible Speed tier and lack of any recovery outside of Rest led to it not being banned from NU. On offensive teams, most Pokemon can cleanly 2HKO it, while defensive teams usually have multiple Pokemon that can take it on as well. Camerupt's terrible Speed means that nearly everything outside of Ferroseed will be moving before it, allowing the opponent to whittle down Camerupt very easily. Camerupt's lack of recovery also hurts its viability as a pivot, as despite having great typing and defenses, in practice it has proven to be underwhelming.
Due to Camerupt's low Speed and lack of recovery, it has not been banned from NU in a vote of 1 ban, 8 do not ban, and 0 abstain.
While Mega Camerupt has great typing and is quite powerful, its terrible Speed tier and lack of any recovery outside of Rest led to it not being banned from NU. On offensive teams, most Pokemon can cleanly 2HKO it, while defensive teams usually have multiple Pokemon that can take it on as well. Camerupt's terrible Speed means that nearly everything outside of Ferroseed will be moving before it, allowing the opponent to whittle down Camerupt very easily. Camerupt's lack of recovery also hurts its viability as a pivot, as despite having great typing and defenses, in practice it has proven to be underwhelming.
Due to Camerupt's low Speed and lack of recovery, it has not been banned from NU in a vote of 1 ban, 8 do not ban, and 0 abstain.
People who voted ban on Cameruptite: Zebraiken
People who voted do not ban on Cameruptite: Raseri, Montsegur, Soulgazer, Punchshroom, Brawlfest, Hollywood, FLCL
Hooray playable meta whoo :D
Still pretty interested to see what / if we get any drops from the January tier shifts, something like Mega Banette will certainly be a huge change (and nuisance) to the tier.
Still pretty interested to see what / if we get any drops from the January tier shifts, something like Mega Banette will certainly be a huge change (and nuisance) to the tier.
Wouldn't say it's a question of if considering how low Hitmonchan (finally) was, that being said, if anything else comes it could be very interesting. Virizion, Skuntank, M-Banette, Emboar, and M-Aboma were all below the cutoff last month, though knowing how shaky that usage was and how the farthest away was only at 3%, we'll have to see.
Also we could potential lose Accelgor to RU.
Also we could potential lose Accelgor to RU.
Skuntank and (maybe) Meganette are the only ones possibly actually staying (well regular aboma probably, def not mega) from that list.
Any chance of Audino's Mega Stone being voted on? Or has that already happened and I missed it?
No, mega Audino is not overcentralizing or versatile enough to warrant a suspect test.
Ah that's too bad. I thought the Calm Mind set could be a real menace if enough people started using it. Thanks for the help!
If you are having problems with Mega Audino, specifically the Calm Mind Rest set. Try running a mega Steelix, pretty much destroys most Audinos.
People do use it quite often, and yes it is extremely bulky, but simply put, it's good but not too good.
On the topic of mega Audino, at first everyone thought that rest sleep talk calm mind dazzling gleam was the best set. Then some started experimenting with a more offensive approach with calm mind 3 attacks, which is pretty cool to lure in poison and steel types that can absorb a dazzling gleam. I also saw Montsegur use encore on his mega Audino, which certainly caught me off guard and haltered my Malamar sweep.
Tbh m lix is so kewl id use it anyway ,checking audino is more like a plus
WHO IS READY FOR INNOVATION?
Full credit goes to Can-Eh-Dian for the idea of Thick Fat PigniteSo with the coming release of 5th gen dream world abilities everyone is super hyped up about Serperior's Contrary and Emboar's Reckless. But everyone has overlooked Pignite's Thick Fat, which recently noticed by Can-Eh-Dian, makes fire type moves do pitiful damage. And the innovation is here!
Pignite @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rock Slide
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Pignite @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Grass Knot
- Sucker Punch
- Superpower
The first set is designed to have max survivability while being able to do good damage to Fire-types and cripple and physical types that try to switch in. The common problem with many fire type checks like Hariyama is that they don't have recovery, so Rest + Sleep Talk is to ensure recovery. The second set is more of an offensive approach similar to what Emboar does in RU, Flare Blitz for maximum damage or Fire Punch for a fire STAB and no recoil, Grass Knot is able to 2HKO standard Seismitoad with 0 investment, Sucker Punch for priority, and lastly Superpower for fighting STAB.
Offensive Movepool:
Fire Blast, Fire Punch, Flamethrower, Flare Blitz, Focus Blast, Focus Punch, Grass Knot, Head Smash, Low Kick, Poison Jab, Rock Slide, Stone Edge, Sucker Punch, Superpower, Wild Charge, Zen Headbutt
Support Movepool:
Endeavor, Protect, Rest, Roar, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Taunt, Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, Yawn
So with this vast extensive movepool Pignite is ready to make up a variety of sets, I just made some off the top of my head that I thought would be pretty good. Taunt especially looks delicious for wallbreaking :D
Defensive Calcs:
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Thick Fat Pignite: 56-66 (14.6 - 17.2%) -- possible 6HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Extrasensory vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Pignite: 160-190 (41.7 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Pyroar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Thick Fat Pignite: 35-43 (9.1 - 11.2%) -- possible 9HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Pyroar Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Pignite: 117-138 (30.5 - 36%) -- 44.9% chance to 3HKO
Offensive Calcs:
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Thick Fat Pignite: 87-103 (23.8 - 28.2%) -- 94.2% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Extrasensory vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Pignite: 248-294 (67.9 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Pyroar Fire Blast vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Thick Fat Pignite: 55-66 (15 - 18%) -- possible 6HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Pyroar Hyper Voice vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Pignite: 183-216 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So obviously against choice locked Typhlosion you have to be wary of the extrasensory, and you have to be at decent health to take Pyroar on if you're the offensive variant. But overall this little monster will definitely be interesting to play around with if its evio doesn't drop from RU in the next tier shifts.
Could this be the MGlalie counter we've been looking for?WHO IS READY FOR INNOVATION?Full credit goes to Can-Eh-Dian for the idea of Thick Fat Pignite
So with the coming release of 5th gen dream world abilities everyone is super hyped up about Serperior's Contrary and Emboar's Reckless. But everyone has overlooked Pignite's Thick Fat, which recently noticed by Can-Eh-Dian, makes fire type moves do pitiful damage. And the innovation is here!
Pignite @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rock Slide
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Pignite @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Grass Knot
- Sucker Punch
- Superpower
The first set is designed to have max survivability while being able to do good damage to Fire-types and cripple and physical types that try to switch in. The common problem with many fire type checks like Hariyama is that they don't have recovery, so Rest + Sleep Talk is to ensure recovery. The second set is more of an offensive approach similar to what Emboar does in RU, Flare Blitz for maximum damage or Fire Punch for a fire STAB and no recoil, Grass Knot is able to 2HKO standard Seismitoad with 0 investment, Sucker Punch for priority, and lastly Superpower for fighting STAB.
Offensive Movepool:
Fire Blast, Fire Punch, Flamethrower, Flare Blitz, Focus Blast, Focus Punch, Grass Knot, Head Smash, Low Kick, Poison Jab, Rock Slide, Stone Edge, Sucker Punch, Superpower, Wild Charge, Zen Headbutt
Support Movepool:
Endeavor, Protect, Rest, Roar, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Taunt, Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, Yawn
So with this vast extensive movepool Pignite is ready to make up a variety of sets, I just made some off the top of my head that I thought would be pretty good. Taunt especially looks delicious for wallbreaking :D
Defensive Calcs:
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Thick Fat Pignite: 56-66 (14.6 - 17.2%) -- possible 6HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Extrasensory vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Pignite: 160-190 (41.7 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Pyroar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Thick Fat Pignite: 35-43 (9.1 - 11.2%) -- possible 9HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Pyroar Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Pignite: 117-138 (30.5 - 36%) -- 44.9% chance to 3HKO
Offensive Calcs:
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Thick Fat Pignite: 87-103 (23.8 - 28.2%) -- 94.2% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Extrasensory vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Pignite: 248-294 (67.9 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Pyroar Fire Blast vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Thick Fat Pignite: 55-66 (15 - 18%) -- possible 6HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Pyroar Hyper Voice vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Pignite: 183-216 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So obviously against choice locked Typhlosion you have to be wary of the extrasensory, and you have to be at decent health to take Pyroar on if you're the offensive variant. But overall this little monster will definitely be interesting to play around with if its evio doesn't drop from RU in the next tier shifts.
252 Atk Mega Glalie Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Pignite: 224-264 (58.3 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
nope.
unless you wanna run max defense.
252 Atk Mega Glalie Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Pignite: 144-170 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
its gonna be quite difficult to be a m-glalie counter when there are better stuff at doing so, e.g. avalugg, walrein which are just as underused and never seen
edit: this shouldnt even be considered as a counter, glalie got banned !!
nope.
unless you wanna run max defense.
252 Atk Mega Glalie Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Pignite: 144-170 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
its gonna be quite difficult to be a m-glalie counter when there are better stuff at doing so, e.g. avalugg, walrein which are just as underused and never seen
edit: this shouldnt even be considered as a counter, glalie got banned !!
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just came here to say that if Emboar falls it will definitely rise next month due to Reckless, and Skuntank should not fall b/c it is an excellent Pokemon in RU e.e
Just gonna share a MegaRupt set that I've been using to pretty good success
Camerupt @ Cameruptite
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Electric]
Sub + 3 Attacks FastRupt is a really cool set that destroys a lot of balance and stall teams. If there's one thing that Mega Camerupt does, it forces switches. By running Substitute on M-Rupt, it allows you to sub on a switch and ease prediction. HP Electric is used over Rock Slide because it allows you to run a modest nature and prevents the lowering of any defenses. I think QoL gave me the idea to use Sub but FastRupt is something that I've always liked because it allows you to outrun everything from base 50 down.
Camerupt @ Cameruptite
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Electric]
Sub + 3 Attacks FastRupt is a really cool set that destroys a lot of balance and stall teams. If there's one thing that Mega Camerupt does, it forces switches. By running Substitute on M-Rupt, it allows you to sub on a switch and ease prediction. HP Electric is used over Rock Slide because it allows you to run a modest nature and prevents the lowering of any defenses. I think QoL gave me the idea to use Sub but FastRupt is something that I've always liked because it allows you to outrun everything from base 50 down.
I've actually used that same exact set before lol. I liked using mega rupt in the very beginning of ORAS when weezing was everywhere, weezing can't do shit to camerupt. Mega camerupt is awesome when you pair it with a fighting type like sawk/gurdurr because of mega rupt's ability to switch into defensive poison types (besides qwil) and switch into fairies and running speed on mega rupt means you can kill with fire blast and not get earthquaked by defensive granbul
The actual calc vs thick fat, so it would of been a sweet check.
252 Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Thick Fat Pignite: 65-77 (16.9 - 20.1%) -- possible 5HKO
Edit @ below: lots of ppl took to not running EQ, well not lots but top players started running super fang and ice shard and what not.
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Problem is very few people run refrigerate stab without earthquake. Earthquake is probably the primary coverage move all m-glalie ran when it was in the tier and the fact that Piggy can take double edge quite well wouldn't persuade me to switch in for fear of earthquake.
However, no doubt, piggy got a huge buff in thick fat and I would expect its usage to dramatically increase because of it. Its probably one of the better fire and ice checks in the tier
252+ SpA Sheer Force Mega Camerupt Ancient Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 116-138 (34.7 - 41.3%) -- 73.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Sheer Force Mega Camerupt Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mantine: 222-262 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Max spef mantine is bad js. Physically defensive allows it to still check m-rupt as well as it can provide a solid check to m-lix as well
I feel like if I need PhysDef Id just use Pelipper though..
252+ SpA Sheer Force Mega Camerupt Ancient Power vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Pelipper: 270-318 (83.5 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
lol
Mantine still has exceptional special bulk uninvested and access to a cute move in Haze to beat gatr, smash pass, and other various threats such as musharna.
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