Serious 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

Who are your favorite candidates?

  • Kamala Harris

    Votes: 43 8.0%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    Votes: 99 18.4%
  • Julián Castro

    Votes: 16 3.0%
  • Pete Buttigieg

    Votes: 51 9.5%
  • Kirsten Gillibrand

    Votes: 7 1.3%
  • John Delaney

    Votes: 9 1.7%
  • Tulsi Gabbard

    Votes: 63 11.7%
  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 338 62.9%
  • Amy Klobuchar

    Votes: 12 2.2%
  • Joe Biden

    Votes: 45 8.4%
  • Andrew Yang

    Votes: 112 20.9%
  • Cory Booker

    Votes: 7 1.3%
  • Marianne Williamson

    Votes: 19 3.5%
  • Mike Bloomberg

    Votes: 12 2.2%

  • Total voters
    537
There’s a report circulating that Sanders spent 490,000 on advertising in Washington state, and Biden spent 2,000. Crazy considering the as of now split result.

Additionally, in 2016 we got Sanders 598,943 Clinton 581,775. In 2020 we got Sanders 547,600 Biden 832,451. Clinton lost MI by 10k votes in 2016. For some reason, Biden is turning out voters.
 

SergioRules

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Hopefully I get Coronavirus and die soon because I'm going to hate living in a country with a terrible climate change plan, no form of health care because I won't be able to afford it, more cuts to social security, and a bumbling idiot as a President (whether it's Biden or Trump). Still holding out hope for Bernie, but I think it's time for the DNC to reevaluate.

Exit polls have Bernie winning literally every age group of voters under 50, while Biden is only winning those over 50. Notably, Biden only got 15% of voters ages 25-29 and 16% of voters ages 18-24. This Democrat pattern of weak, shitty centrist candidates can't happen again in 2024 or they'll lose to whatever meat sack of a Republican neo-fascist they throw up on stage again.

Anyway, also pointing out again how Kamala called Biden a racist to his face but still endorsed him, Yang said he'd only support a candidate who supported UBI but then endorsed Biden, yet somehow Warren claiming to be a progressive didn't endorse Bernie when he probably needed it the most. Just goes to show yet another example of how terribly shitty politicians are.
 
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fanyfan

i once put 42 mcdonalds chicken nuggets in my anus
Well, it’s over. Barring a miracle, Bernie Sanders will not be our president. Now every anti-Bernie person can say “I told you so” a million times, and they have been.

Well, I guess in November it’ll be time to suck it up and vote Biden. He is significantly better than Trump on policy. How much of it he follows through with, I guess we’ll have to see. I do think Biden has potential to beat Trump. A lot of Bernie people, including myself a bit ago thought Biden has absolutely no shot at beating Trump, but based on polls on Biden’s favorably and head to head against Trump, it seems possible.

Now, the question on a lot of people’s minds I’m sure is why did this happen? Is the Democratic base not as progressive as us Bernie people thought? Was the problem Bernie himself? Is it true that “Nobody likes him”? Was it his strategy? Maybe he should have gone harder on Biden? Was he just perceived as being unelectable in an election where most people just wanted to beat Trump? Did Warren staying in on Super Tuesday and splitting the vote with him halt any momentum he had by making him lose started he otherwise would have won? Was it just inevitable? Would any anti-establishment candidate be doomed to lose because the establishment is too powerful? I feel like it was probably not one thing but a combination of things. What those things are, I don’t know.

One interesting thing that came out of this is remember, Biden got 4th in Iowa and 5th in New Hampshire. Maybe those early states don’t matter as much as people think? Pete excelled in Iowa and New Hampshire but he dropped off a cliff after that. Maybe specifically because it was a crowded field it didn’t matter as much. I don’t know the reason but if I had to guess, this is the first time someone lost the first three states and went on to win the nomination.

Finally, who do you all think Biden’s vp pick will be? There are a few options I’ve heard being tossed around. Amy Klobuchar, Kamala Harris, Stacey Abrams, and Elizabeth Warren are a few I’ve heard.
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
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There’s a report circulating that Sanders spent 490,000 on advertising in Washington state, and Biden spent 2,000. Crazy considering the as of now split result.

Additionally, in 2016 we got Sanders 598,943 Clinton 581,775. In 2020 we got Sanders 547,600 Biden 832,451. Clinton lost MI by 10k votes in 2016. For some reason, Biden is turning out voters.
You crediting the increase in democratic ballot voters in Michigan to Biden is sorta false. This is the first time Michigan has had both voter registration up to the day of the vote and the first time Michigan has had mail-in voting with no "excuse" needed to get your ballot early. Additionally, this year the republican side wasn't a contest, so many more people could choose to vote on the dem side (basically you would only ever choose a republican ballot if you wanted to support a down ticket republican candidate in their primary).

Who would have thought that voter turn out would increase if you make it easier for people to vote? Who would have thought that a pretty much dem only primary in an open primary state would get more votes this time than last time when both parties actually had contests?
 
Old moderates who's only issue is beating Trump really gonna ruin the future for the youth lmao
Re-electing a fascist climate change-denier really helps the youth.

Hopefully I get Coronavirus and die soon because I'm going to hate living in a country with a terrible climate change plan, no form of health care because I won't be able to afford it, more cuts to social security, and a bumbling idiot as a President (whether it's Biden or Trump). Still holding out hope for Bernie, but I think it's time for the DNC to reevaluate.

Exit polls have Bernie winning literally every age group of voters under 50, while Biden is only winning those over 50. Notably, Biden only got 15% of voters ages 25-29 and 16% of voters ages 18-24. This Democrat pattern of weak, shitty centrist candidates can't happen again in 2024 or they'll lose to whatever meat sack of a Republican neo-fascist they throw up on stage again.

Anyway, also pointing out again how Kamala called Biden a racist to his face but still endorsed him, Yang said he'd only support a candidate who supported UBI but then endorsed Biden, yet somehow Warren claiming to be a progressive didn't endorse Bernie when he probably needed it the most. Just goes to show yet another example of how terribly shitty politicians are.
... or they look at it the way they should. It is a binary choice. Which of Biden vs. Bernie has the best chance against Trump? There is no right or wrong answer, so people go with their gut.

The bigger issue is that younger voters take politics too personally. Politics affects all of us. Even if your candidate doesn’t become the nominee, there will still be a President. That’s the reality.
 

SergioRules

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is a Community Contributor
The bigger issue is that younger voters take politics too personally. Politics affects all of us. Even if your candidate doesn’t become the nominee, there will still be a President. That’s the reality.
Is that not the whole idea of democracy? To have a personal stake in the governmental process? Young voters take politics personally because modern politicians are attacking us with their policies.

By not funding social security, they're saying that even though our grandparents and their parents got to retire at the age of 65, there are more and more people even today that are having to work through retirement because they don't have enough money. And that likely will be the same for future generations.

By not funding a universal health care system, they're saying that they don't care if poor or middle class people get sick or injured. Only people with enough money to pay for insurance or with enough to pay out of pocket and not go into bankruptcy are the only people important enough to survive.

By not investing money into climate change research and prevention, they're saying that they don't care about the health of the planet for the next 50-100 years because they'll be gone. As young people, that's definitely a personal attack because they're admitting that they don't care if our generation or those after it have a sustainable planet to live on.

"Even if your candidate isn't the nominee, there still will be a President." That doesn't mean the President is going to do anything about the actual issues that make life for poor and marginalized groups so difficult.
 

MikeDawg

Banned deucer.
Now, the question on a lot of people’s minds I’m sure is why did this happen?
It's only a shock to people who didn't want to believe it. The race was never even close. Bernie had 15-25% of the vote at any given time in a field heavily split by "moderate" (lol aka anyone who's name doesn't start with B and end with Ernie) candidates.

He lost Iowa to a random gay mayor, massively underperformed NH compared to Amy & Pete, and got swept in SC. The trends were there for anyone who cared to see them. I tried to tell ya. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Is the Democratic base not as progressive as us Bernie people thought?
Absolutely not. Polls and results showed that ages ago.

Was the problem Bernie himself?
Yes. Warren could've won if he didn't shove her out of the way. Bernie is a fundamentally unserious candidate, but progressivism itself is a viable platform.

Is it true that “Nobody likes him”?
Considering nearly every political figure in the country who endorsed someone chose his opponent, yup! His co-workers have been publicly calling him an ineffective asshole for the past few decades, so it's no surprise. Not to mention his poor voter turnout and results.

Was it his strategy?
Absolutely. Who would've thought that smearing and berating every other candidate would alienate people? Who would've thought, "You're literally a murderer for not supporting Bernie!" would be a turn off?

He didn't have enough votes in 2016, and he's made no effort to build coalitions since then (rather, the opposite is true). His strategy was to skate through a crowded field with 25% of the vote then throw a tantrum at the convention. He simply couldn't fathom the idea that candidates would drop out once it became clear they wouldn't win (as he should've done in 2016).

The fact that candidates this time around bothered to call him out on his absurd promises and blatant lack of plans certainly didn't help his case. And they didn't even start doing that until Biden slipped ~the Iowa caucus, because they knew that even sneezing in Bernie's direction would end with thousands of kids on the internet sending death threats to their families. They (Kamala, Liz, Pete) probably thought they could take some of his supporters too. Hah.


Maybe he should have gone harder on Biden?
Everyone who went after Biden ended up underwater, Bernie included. The most disproportionately successful candidates in the race (Pete, Biden) ran the cleanest campaigns. We already have a petty asshole in the white house.

Was he just perceived as being unelectable in an election where most people just wanted to beat Trump?
That was absolutely not the only reason, but yup. And even if he won the presidency, he would've lost Congress in a landslide. Hence why Biden got early endorsements from a large number of purple/red district Reps.

Did Warren staying in on Super Tuesday and splitting the vote with him halt any momentum he had by making him lose started he otherwise would have won?
No.

First of all, only half of Warren's supporters went to Bernie.

Secondly, Bloomberg, Pete, and Amy got way more super Tuesday votes than Liz. Bernie would've lost even harder had the field thinned sooner.

Was it just inevitable?
Absolutely not. Even Pelosi caved and said she'd be comfortable with Bernie at the top of the ticket when he was at this peak. He had every advantage in the world, but his strategy, staff, personality, record, and relationships were way under par.

Would any anti-establishment candidate be doomed to lose because the establishment is too powerful?
The "establishment" (whatever that means) let Bernie practically rewrite the primary rules to his benefit. He still lost in a landslide. It's silly to blame the establishment for a landslide defeat. This would be valid food for thought if it were a much closer race.

The Dem establishment is the most overrated villain in history. Even more underwhelming than the dude from CA: Civil War.

I feel like it was probably not one thing but a combination of things. What those things are, I don’t know.
Nah, you were pretty spot on in listing them.
 
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MikeDawg

Banned deucer.
Is that not the whole idea of democracy? To have a personal stake in the governmental process? Young voters take politics personally because modern politicians are attacking us with their policies.

By not funding social security, they're saying that even though our grandparents and their parents got to retire at the age of 65, there are more and more people even today that are having to work through retirement because they don't have enough money. And that likely will be the same for future generations.

By not funding a universal health care system, they're saying that they don't care if poor or middle class people get sick or injured. Only people with enough money to pay for insurance or with enough to pay out of pocket and not go into bankruptcy are the only people important enough to survive.

By not investing money into climate change research and prevention, they're saying that they don't care about the health of the planet for the next 50-100 years because they'll be gone. As young people, that's definitely a personal attack because they're admitting that they don't care if our generation or those after it have a sustainable planet to live on.

"Even if your candidate isn't the nominee, there still will be a President." That doesn't mean the President is going to do anything about the actual issues that make life for poor and marginalized groups so difficult.
The fact that you think only Bernie would do those things is the problem. Especially when he's perhaps the least likely to actually accomplish any of them.

It's also kind of laughable (narcissistic?) that you think only young people are targeted by policies. If anything, they're the least directly impacted, hence why they feel no impetus to vote.

You think adults don't need healthcare and social security? You think they don't need unions and childcare? You think they aren't affected by border separation, gun control, and climate change? Black maternal mortality rates? Tax cuts? Welfare and disability? CDC funding? National security?

Young people don't run the country. Sorry. Based on this election, they don't even vote, even when they have a frontrunner directly catering to them.

Modern young voters didn't exist politically until 2016, fell in love with an ineffective, dishonest populist (Bernie, Nader, Paul, Trump...), then flipped out when Sanders lost because they're used to getting everything they want and didn't want to compromise with *checks notes* the other 65% of the party, no less the rest of the country.

Go fall in love with a mayoral candidate. Or a city council candidate. Or even a house candidate. You'll have a much better chance of walking away happy and feeling represented.

We have 2 presidential nominees to represent 300mil people. "Exciting" candidates are rarely poised to win, because exciting to you is polarizing to someone else. The presidency is and always will be a compromise position. If you don't understand that, it's on you.
 

Kink

it's a thug life ¨̮
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The fact that you think only Bernie would do those things is the problem. Especially when he's perhaps the least likely to actually accomplish any of them.

It's also kind of laughable (narcissistic?) that you think only young people are targeted by policies. If anything, they're the least directly impacted, hence why they feel no impetus to vote.

You think adults don't need healthcare and social security? You think they don't need unions and childcare? You think they aren't affected by border separation, gun control, and climate change? Black maternal mortality rates? Tax cuts? Welfare and disability? CDC funding? National security?

Young people don't run the country. Sorry. Based on this election, they don't even vote, even when they have a frontrunner directly catering to them.

Modern young voters didn't exist politically until 2016, fell in love with an ineffective, dishonest populist (Bernie, Nader, Paul, Trump...), then flipped out when Sanders lost because they're used to getting everything they want and didn't want to compromise with *checks notes* the other 65% of the party, no less the rest of the country.

Go fall in love with a mayoral candidate. Or a city council candidate. Or even a house candidate. You'll have a much better chance of walking away happy and feeling represented.

We have 2 presidential nominees to represent 300mil people. "Exciting" candidates are rarely poised to win, because exciting to you is polarizing to someone else. The presidency is and always will be a compromise position. If you don't understand that, it's on you.
Hard to see how it’s a compromise when Donald Trump never felt like a compromise, but rather a huge slap in the face to everything the US thought, and I emphasize thought, it stood for.

As a Canadian who cares deeply about your elections here’s what I’ll say: I very much believe that if Biden is your democratic candidate, Trump will be elected for another term. This is based on a heuristic judgement.
 

MikeDawg

Banned deucer.
Hard to see how it’s a compromise when Donald Trump never felt like a compromise, but rather a huge slap in the face to everything the US thought, and I emphasize thought, it stood for.
The compromise was between Republicans, centrists who preferred Trump to Clinton, and progressives who preferred Trump to voting Clinton. In fact, post-election polling showed that voters saw Trump as the "moderate" choice and Hillary as the radical.

"Thought" really is the key word there. Obama is what (collective) we want the country to stand for, Trump is what the country does stand for.

Don't forget, there are Americans alive today who were born before women were allowed to vote.

In 2016, Ruth Bonner opened an AA history museum. Her parents were slaves.

Even the most egregious parts of our history are still very recent. We still have a long, long way to go.
 
Why are y’all just ignoring that Biden’s platform includes a universal public option? While it’s not M4A it’s better than what we have now, and is a pretty achievable option. Done right, it also applies market pressure on private insurance companies. I also do believe Biden is sincere about moving in that direction, as Obamacare is as much a part of his legacy as anything else will be.
 

MikeDawg

Banned deucer.
Why are y’all just ignoring that Biden’s platform includes a universal public option? While it’s not M4A it’s better than what we have now, and is a pretty achievable option. Done right, it also applies market pressure on private insurance companies. I also do believe Biden is sincere about moving in that direction, as Obamacare is as much a part of his legacy as anything else will be.
As well as allowing the government to negotiate drug prices.

Machoke said:
How cynical do your politics need to be to actively take pleasure in young people feeling loss of hope and disenfranchisement? Find out today on smogon dot com!
Considering every previous generation of young people managed to get over feeling "loss of hope and disenfranchisement" when their favorite candidate lost, I'm sure you'll be fine.

You guys are making it really hard for me to argue when someone calls my generation entitled.
 

MZ

And now for something completely different
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Mildly confused as to why I keep seeing people here and in like every other field saying it's all over. Like yeah Biden has a lead and momentum and it certainly looks strong for him, don't get me wrong, but from what I understand once the California delegates go out Biden has a lead equivalent to like, one statesworth of delegates? And we actually get to see a one-on-one debate before the next round of voting which everyone in the Biden camp seems to be terrified by? Not to mention that every single state has still shown more people prefer major Bernie policies like m4a, people are just scared about electability and losing the general, and I'm just not convinced Biden will look like the safe bet anymore if in the next debate his eye starts bleeding again or something. Coming back from this isn't easy, but it presumably wasn't easy for Biden to get here after his Iowa and New Hampshire performances either.
 

MikeDawg

Banned deucer.
Mildly confused as to why I keep seeing people here and in like every other field saying it's all over. Like yeah Biden has a lead and momentum and it certainly looks strong for him, don't get me wrong, but from what I understand once the California delegates go out Biden has a lead equivalent to like, one statesworth of delegates? And we actually get to see a one-on-one debate before the next round of voting which everyone in the Biden camp seems to be terrified by? Not to mention that every single state has still shown more people prefer major Bernie policies like m4a, people are just scared about electability and losing the general, and I'm just not convinced Biden will look like the safe bet anymore if in the next debate his eye starts bleeding again or something. Coming back from this isn't easy, but it presumably wasn't easy for Biden to get here after his Iowa and New Hampshire performances either.
Screenshot_20200311-131839_Chrome.jpg

I saw from a source I don't necessarily trust that Bernie is planning to drop today or tomorrow. I doubt it, but it'd be the logical (and altruistic?) thing to do.

Realistically, the longer he stays in the less leverage he has at the convention. Like if Liz dropped before SC, she'd at least have the perception of popularity to negotiate on. As Bernie loses more and more states (especially swing states) by huge margins, he becomes less and less valuable.

I really appreciated that Kamala dropped out as soon as her chances were shot. Taking donations after your time is up is unethical, plain and simple.
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
Realistically, the longer he stays in the less leverage he has at the convention.
I'm unfamiliar with how conventions work. What does "leverage" mean here? Isn't it just whoever gets the most delegates gets to be the candidate for that party?
 
So I guess the answer is "very cynical!"

Anyways let's see how the debates go on Sunday. The dnc is changing the structure of the debates to help Biden lul. If anyone finds out more on the confirmed debate structure I'd like to hear
 

MikeDawg

Banned deucer.
I'm unfamiliar with how conventions work. What does "leverage" mean here? Isn't it just whoever gets the most delegates gets to be the candidate for that party?
For example, Clinton added free college to her platform in July 2016 right before Bernie officially endorsed her. Without his mass of support, she wouldn't have needed to do that.

Similarly, I'd be shocked if Pete and Amy weren't offered positions in Biden's admin before Super Tuesday. They were taking a lot of Biden's potential Super Tuesday support, which made their endorsements and dropping out incredibly valuable. If they stayed in and underperformed (e.g. Liz Warren taking 3rd in Massachusetts), their poll numbers would've gone down, and their endorsements wouldn't be worth as much influence.
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
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I do think this is the point we stop wishing ill of Biden. I wished ill of Hillary at this point, and I came to regret it (not that my mental wishes had any effect on anything). If any liberal thinks that Biden is as bad as Trump or even close, I dunno, I can't convince anybody of anything, but please really reexamine your thoughts and emotions and the state of this country. Every bit of discontent over Biden is just gonna be ammo Trump uses against him. We can be dissatisfied with the old buy starting the day he takes office.
 
dunk the us has only tested ~5000 ppl for coranavirus thats less than each much smaller country, i would argue the federal gov has really mismanaged their end of a coordinated response to outbreaks in WA and I guess NY (hard to really keep up since only 5k ppl have been tested agencies are fumbling around blind)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-snaps-michigan-auto-worker-173703659.html
it's over for biden before it even begins he's snapping at his base and the armed forced have donated more to Sanders than to Trump this time around. the writing is on the wall: Sanders is competitive w trump in a general election, Biden simply is not.
Sanders is not competitive vs Trump. LOL.

Sanders isn't even competitive against Biden.

You think a socialist is going to win a state like Florida where 1.5 million votes fled an awful socialist regime? Biden has also been winning every important swing state to date.
 

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