Pity that Cloyster doesn't get Water Shuriken. He'd use it far better than Greninja could ever dream.
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Battle Maison Discussion & Records
- Thread starter NoCheese
- Start date
Man... it would be a dream. Breaks Sash/Sturdy while giving covarage and extremely high base power as 5 hits 100% of the time, lol.
Now imagine if we were to discover a new gimmic to setup that gives like three free turns, then you hold Scope Lens and use Focus Energy on any mon that also has a buff and covarage (like Sniper Adamant* DD Kingdra). THAT would be off the top.
edited the nature as DD boosts Atk.
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Don't forget that +1 priority too. =P
Someone could try baton passing focus energy but I don't know who can use those moves besides Smeargle.
Ok, so I forgot to use the Blissey base battles for a few days as I was entertained (pun intended) playing the Maison, and I just got an idea of what to do with those round pinky mons: re-breed my team (actually only two as Durant is alredy female) and get them just to Lv50ish to have them in a different gender. I tend to use female mons because I like to keep the best one I got to breed on future and still pass the pokeball (I just LOVE the luxury ball, have been using since introduction).
So because I alredy have 5IVs mons it was easy to breed a new one (THANKS GF FOR GEN 6 BREED MECHANICS).
From now on this team made by GG Unit will be know by me as Team Void. Durant is now Rek'Sai (Truant = crowd control reference, knock-up and slow); Cloyster is now male, Kha'Zix (Icicle Spear = Void Spike reference); Drapion is now male too, Cho'Gath (Acupressure boosting = Feast reference; Black Slugde = Carnivore healing reference).
Just took me less than a dozen eggs of each to get a new 5IVs male (THANKS AGAIN GF, FOR THE BATTLE RESORT LOOP MAP). Working on leveling them now on bases, glad dont to go all the way to Lv100. Another good thing that I only need PP Ups on few moves: protect and sub for Cho'Gath mostly, as the boosting and attack moves have enough base PP.
Will take this oportunity to change Rock Blast to Surf on Kha'Zix while mantaining one with Rock Blast.
So because I alredy have 5IVs mons it was easy to breed a new one (THANKS GF FOR GEN 6 BREED MECHANICS).
From now on this team made by GG Unit will be know by me as Team Void. Durant is now Rek'Sai (Truant = crowd control reference, knock-up and slow); Cloyster is now male, Kha'Zix (Icicle Spear = Void Spike reference); Drapion is now male too, Cho'Gath (Acupressure boosting = Feast reference; Black Slugde = Carnivore healing reference).
Just took me less than a dozen eggs of each to get a new 5IVs male (THANKS AGAIN GF, FOR THE BATTLE RESORT LOOP MAP). Working on leveling them now on bases, glad dont to go all the way to Lv100. Another good thing that I only need PP Ups on few moves: protect and sub for Cho'Gath mostly, as the boosting and attack moves have enough base PP.
Will take this oportunity to change Rock Blast to Surf on Kha'Zix while mantaining one with Rock Blast.
If it's going to be coming in as the second Pokemon after Durant has fired off Entrainment then I would just go for Adamant with max HP and Atk since you'd rack up the 6 Speed Boosts rather quickly which make you outspeed everything anyway. I would use Hone Claws over Swords Dance which helps your sweeper avoid Lax Incense / Bright Powder hax, as well as allowing them to use lower accuracy moves more reliably (Stone Edge etc.). You probably need an attack incase everything goes wrong, to which I say Substitute is probably the most expendable, and I would probably put Blaze Kick in since it gives OK power (better than Fire Punch) and doesn't give recoil, it also benefits from Hone Claws. Dedicated Baton Passers on Durant teams really suffer from 4MSS, so I would advise not doing it, but you can still give it a go!
The aforementioned Blaziken can. I've been wanting to try him on a team with Durant / Blaze / Kingdra but I never tried it because of the advice I just gave Dreamox (dedicated BPers stink).
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As for my own theorymoning, I've been thinking that my Mimic Mega Pidgeot idea is probably better suited to Triples where you can use Greninja to set up Mat Block turn 1 to ease the Mimicking, so I've been toying with the idea of a level 1 Aron replacement. It's nothing original, but I've been wanting to play with Magnemite:
Magnemite @ Berry Juice
Level 1
Ability: Sturdy
Gentle Nature
EVs: I don't have enough badges to train it
- Protect
- Recycle
- Toxic
- Double Team
The real attack magnet (see what I did there?). With Berry Juice, just like Aron it should survive two moves in a turn (providing no multi strike stuff), so you just alternate between Protect and Recycle to keep restoring your Juice and become practically invincible. You could pair it with pretty much anything and have them take down the opponent, but in my pursuit of being ~different~ I've been thinking of pairing it with this: (since it worked so well in the Battle of Hoenn comp)
Latias @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Bold Nature
252 HP / 252 Def / 6 HP
- Reflect Type
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Dragon Pulse
Should be able to nab a free Calm Mind on turn one, then Reflect Type the Magnemite to become a Levitating Steel / Electric, which means that because of your shared weaknesses with the Magnemite, the AI should aim for it rather than Latias, so the only things you have to watch out for is Mold Breaker Earthquake (Pinsir4, Rampardos4, Haxorus4, Excadrill4, Throh4 and Sawk4) and Lava Plume (Heatran1 and Typhlosion4). I was thinking that Gyarados would work well in the backline as a switch-in for those (Mold Breaker) Earthquake / Fighting / Fire moves with Intimidate and a Lum Berry (in case of burn), I just can't decide on a fourth. I probably won't give this a shot until I've had a go with my Pidgeot idea but I would still like to see everyone's thoughts on this. Even on it's own, could Recycle Magnemite work as a good sponge while its partner goes to work?
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Ok, so I bred a Hasty Cloyster as Def doesnt matters and it has decent Atk alredy. Will EV train it now, changing the build. Reducing the EVs on Spe to 120 to have a similar Spe as Adamant 252 Spe spread and divided the rest, 206 Atk/184 Spa.
Is this ok? When I was about to start the EV train (after some -EV berries) I remembered that some mons that gave me a hard time and would get a KO on Surf, but then Dewgong came to mind, as ir has 4x resistance to Ice and 2x to Water, so Surf might not have enough punch to even 3HKO with Adamant decreasing Spa and 0 EVs on Spa.
The damage calculator using the new spread vs Dewgong4 (I dont know the exact EVs but put 252 HP/126 Def/126 SpD) showed that a +6 Icicle Spear deals a bit less than 50% at max damage (45%) so its a 3HKO while a +6 Surf 2HKOs everytime.
Is this ok? When I was about to start the EV train (after some -EV berries) I remembered that some mons that gave me a hard time and would get a KO on Surf, but then Dewgong came to mind, as ir has 4x resistance to Ice and 2x to Water, so Surf might not have enough punch to even 3HKO with Adamant decreasing Spa and 0 EVs on Spa.
The damage calculator using the new spread vs Dewgong4 (I dont know the exact EVs but put 252 HP/126 Def/126 SpD) showed that a +6 Icicle Spear deals a bit less than 50% at max damage (45%) so its a 3HKO while a +6 Surf 2HKOs everytime.
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Naughty is better because Special Defense is less important than Defense - any special attack will KO Cloyster but you may have to take some priority moves at -3 Defense. Speed isn't important because at +6 it's faster than everything no matter what. I wrote about some possible EV spreads with Naughty somewhere in the post linked to the 600 whatever streak.
Cloyster usually comes out on top against Dewgong because it's more likely to use Stockpile or Rain Dance before Surfing twice. If it uses Rain Dance Surf is able to do like 70% damage to it. If it does use Surf the first turn when it doesn't look like Cloyster is on track to take it out in 2 hits, you let it faint (without triggering the Salac Berry) and Drapion can set up on it even if it doesn't have Truant. That's the overall idea behind Surf instead of Rock Blast (besides the accuracy); Drapion sets up on anything that Cloyster could better handle with Rock Blast whereas with Garchomp or any other teammate that can't put up Subs and recover HP you would lose to something like Walrein.
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hmm... for x... mat block, grass knot, spikes, extrasensory, and hidden power are probably the options.
spikes because greninja lures electric attacks, but some of them outspeed you anyways so you have to switch. mat block to bait the ai into using a psychic move which you can then dark pulse for free, but you have to know they have a psychic move. extrasensory because then you resist fighting moves that the ai will use on its first attack with greninja on the field, and a lot of those fighting moves come from fighting pokes. grass knot handles waters, imo its the best option. hp... is weak but gives access to any type -- ground, fire, rock, steel, ghost, flying. anything with an immunity is interesting, and a couple of those have good coverage (but not good 4x coverage which is prolly what you need to justify it) and resists.
I have an ongoing 50 win streak in Super Singles with this team:
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice beam
- Extrasensory
- Grass Knot
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Fang
- Swords Dance
Garchomp @ Choice Band
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jollyt Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
I always lead with Greninja, that can get a lot of OHKO if the opponent is weak to one of his moves, and sometimes even if it's neutral. I think that I need to change Hydro Pump for Surf, sometimes the misses are very dangerous. Three consecutive misses against a Charizard thar Dragon Danced four times could have gone very bad... If the opponent carries Electric moves, I switch into Garchomp. I tend to stay in with Greninja if it has low HP, because it's difficult to switch again. This way, I can get a clean switch into Garchomp or Mawile.
When Greninja is gone, usually it's Mawile's turn. He can take at least one or two hits if they're not super effective, and OHKO them most of the time. If the opponent is faster and I'm sure that I can take at least one hit, sometimes I swords dance and KO them the next turn with a Sucker Punch.
Greninja and Mawile usually get the job done,but if they both get KOed, it's Garchomp's turn. With a Choice Band Earthquake almost everything is KOed, but if there are more than one remaining opponent Pokémons it's risky to get locked into Earthquake (or Outrage if there are fairies), so I use the other two moves when I need them.
I noticed that if Garchomp remains alone against an Ice-type Pokémon, usually it's outsped and OHKOed by them, so should I change the Choice Band for a Choice Scarf?
There's something else that I'm forgetting and that I should change?
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice beam
- Extrasensory
- Grass Knot
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Fang
- Swords Dance
Garchomp @ Choice Band
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jollyt Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
I always lead with Greninja, that can get a lot of OHKO if the opponent is weak to one of his moves, and sometimes even if it's neutral. I think that I need to change Hydro Pump for Surf, sometimes the misses are very dangerous. Three consecutive misses against a Charizard thar Dragon Danced four times could have gone very bad... If the opponent carries Electric moves, I switch into Garchomp. I tend to stay in with Greninja if it has low HP, because it's difficult to switch again. This way, I can get a clean switch into Garchomp or Mawile.
When Greninja is gone, usually it's Mawile's turn. He can take at least one or two hits if they're not super effective, and OHKO them most of the time. If the opponent is faster and I'm sure that I can take at least one hit, sometimes I swords dance and KO them the next turn with a Sucker Punch.
Greninja and Mawile usually get the job done,but if they both get KOed, it's Garchomp's turn. With a Choice Band Earthquake almost everything is KOed, but if there are more than one remaining opponent Pokémons it's risky to get locked into Earthquake (or Outrage if there are fairies), so I use the other two moves when I need them.
I noticed that if Garchomp remains alone against an Ice-type Pokémon, usually it's outsped and OHKOed by them, so should I change the Choice Band for a Choice Scarf?
There's something else that I'm forgetting and that I should change?
But at minimum defense either one, Def or SpD, are insignificant, it will get to 1HP/die anyway (from 99% hp broken sash to 0hp everytime).
Do you think that 0 EVs would still outspeed everything at +6? Im tempted to go Lonely/Naughty and 252 Atk/252 SpA then, or at least invest just enough on Spe to outspeed what is needed (which means the fastest mon, scarfed or not).
The pain is re-breed it and all, find a Lonely/Naughty Ditto just for the nature (not sure if I have one, usually I keep one of each nature for the ones I use). But level up is not a problem.
252 Atk Arcanine Extreme Speed vs. -3 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 62-73 (49.6 - 58.4%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Talonflame Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. -3 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 52-63 (41.6 - 50.4%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO (That's Talonflame 3 while still holding its item, which it will be)
The nature doesn't make a huge difference, but Cloyster does survive priority attacks after three Shell Smashes, because it has base 180 Defense. A non-hindering nature will help it survive those hits better. It will rarely matter, but it's still inaccurate to say that Cloyster will never survive a hit after Smashing. Also, when you're not able to boost fully (which will happen more often than you think), the extra Defense will help you tank hits at -1.
Dragon / Water / Steel is indeed a solid core for the Maison. As you suggest, you will definitely want to replace Hydro Pump. 80% accuracy for a core attacking move is unacceptably low for any sort of long streak. Also note that while powerful, Mega Mawile is fundamentally crippled in the Maison by the accuracy on Play Rough. The 90% will eventually bite you, and you can't even play around it with a Wide Lens. You can probably get to 100 with that team, but the accuracy issue is really problematic on long runs. Furthermore, with its heavy reliance on Sucker Punch, Mega Mawile can get into trouble against status using foes and Curse-Resters and the like.
As far as my own streaks are concerned, just hit 300 wins with Dragonite / Suicune / Mega Metagross. Had one close call after a greedy play switching Suicune rather than Metagross into Regice was punished by an untimely Ice Beam freeze on the switch plus a Thunderbolt crit followed later by several Iron Head flinches in a row from Rock Polish Registeel, but in general the team is solid. It's definitely less reliable than the true top teams, and I feel that eventually Starmie4 is going to roll a few flinches in a row and wreck me, but it's reasonably fast and quite a bit of fun. After such a long stretch of triples and doubles play, returning to singles is definitely more stressful, as with so much less backup if something goes wrong, careful play is critical. Additionally, Trick Room abuse in doubles and Tailwind + spread nuke spam in triples allow you to essentially ignore the strategies of many foes, while a good-stuff/synergy (e.g. non-TruAnt) singles team, no matter how well constructed, has to more frequently tailor its play to the specific builds of the foe's Pokemon, making misplays much more of a risk.
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I said it and I will repeat it: I suck at this game. I always though the drop on defenses were -2 per smash not -1 (so -6 instead of -3). Ok, time to hunt a Naughty Ditto just to pass the nature.
I finally got my first Maison trophy in Omega Ruby (Rotations) after completing the National Pokedex and catching the one legendary I was aiming for. I'm looking forward to sharing the Rotations team once I lose and/or find out how good it actually is. The four Pokemon on the team have each appeared a maximum of one time on the Rotations leaderboard and never on the same team, so it's cool to be trying something a little different. That said, I could lose ten battles from now; Rotations is a tricky format to predict.
Jumpman16 , I'm still working on the logic puzzle. Thanks for sharing it; it's fun! I'm guessing you wouldn't post it if the answer weren't outside the box, and if you weren't proud of it to some extent. I'm also pretty sure that the different pieces make much less sense in isolation than they do when all put together. My stream-of-consciousness reasoning:
So yeah...I haven't come up with anything all that impressive yet. But I'll keep working on it!
Jumpman16 , I'm still working on the logic puzzle. Thanks for sharing it; it's fun! I'm guessing you wouldn't post it if the answer weren't outside the box, and if you weren't proud of it to some extent. I'm also pretty sure that the different pieces make much less sense in isolation than they do when all put together. My stream-of-consciousness reasoning:
"Mega Salamence is bulky, but will also want to be fast enough to block status. Can it stall out Blizzard with Sub+Roost? No, probably not. Sub's probably somewhere to block Walrein and improve reliability, so I'm guessing it's on Mence; a bulky spread can block a status move, DD while the opponent breaks the Sub (or fails to do so), Sub on the status move again, Roost while the opponent attacks, rinse and repeat and sweep. It could be on the third mon, though, so I need to figure out what that is. Magnezone's a threat to fully set-up Mence, particularly a mono-attacker, and Greninja can't switch into it. The third mon probably needs to take Jolteon T-Bolts too; Protect could make Greninja Normal and potentially lure Hyper Beam, but Jolteon doesn't consistently prefer Hyper Beam over T-Bolt on neutral targets. There's Aero4 too, so the third mon needs to switch into Aero4 Stone Edge and Jolt4 T-Bolt. Gliscor can do that; maybe Gliscor setting up a stall combo with Mega Mence to ensure Mence sets up against the lead? But Mence can't set up against Jolteon, and without Scald, Greninja isn't reliable enough for switching into Ice. Maybe Scald as the fourth move? But that won't do enough to Froslass to keep it from sweeping. Scratch Gliscor. Aegislash can't risk TBolt paralysis; scratch Aegislash. Maybe he's come up with a way to beat lead Jolts with Greninja? But I can't figure it out, esp. with Life Orb as the item. Magneton/zone can take Aero and Jolts comfortably, but he'd need switch-ins for whatever comes out next. Mence takes on Ground and Fighting moves, but can't switch in to Fire without Refresh (and who has Refresh Salamence?). Magnezone also kind of sucks against Tornadus 2, but maybe Salamence runs Protect to Mega Evolve and outspeed? But it can't have both Protect and Sub, which it would need to reliably win. But I guess Zone and Mence could switch-stall out Focus Blast's PP. Lead Infernape wrecks that combo with its risk of Flare Blitz burns, though. Maybe I shouldn't be thinking of Pokemon that are objectively bad in the Maison. How about Water/Grounds? Mence switches into Grass, but doesn't like Abomasnow. Water/Grounds probably can't switch-stall out Blizzard's PP either. Mirror Coat Rindo Berry Gastrodon for the OHKO against Abomasnow? lulz. 252/252+ Chansey can still be 2HKO'd by Aero4 Stone Edge without any crits, so probably not Chansey. Maybe Cresselia? Good luck against Jolteon's Fake Tears, though, and stalling your ass off doesn't seem like Jumpman's style these days..."
So yeah...I haven't come up with anything all that impressive yet. But I'll keep working on it!
Just got to 100 wins in Super Triples with the following team:
@ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Helping Hand
- Wide Guard
- Close Combat
@ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Hyper Voice
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
@ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Quick Guard
- Tailwind
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
@ Focus Sash
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Tailwind
- Sky Drop
- Wide Guard
@ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 12 HP / 252 SpA / 244 Spe
Modest Nature
- Swift
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock
@ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Helping Hand
Pretty underwhelming, I know, but this is the first time I've gotten to 100 on AS, as up to now I had been playing only for the trophies.
The reason I'm posting this is because I'd like some advice. A couple of things I'm struggling with:
- Quick Guard on Talonflame seems like a waste of a moveslot. I thought it would be useful to block Ice Shards or faster Fake Outs, but so far I haven't used it once. I have no idea what to replace it with; I've thought about Roost but Talonflame's role is just to set up Tailwind on turn 1 and weaken stuff with BB until it goes down. Taunt, perhaps?
- While MMence's Aerilate Hyper Voice is pretty strong, especially with Helping Hand support, there have been a few times (mostly against Veterans) where it just misses the KO. Since I have Tailwind up basically 100% of the time, would it be a good idea to switch to a Modest Mence, or perhaps go mixed with EQ + something else (since so far Dragon Pulse was only used for Latis and Flamethrower for Registeel and... Klinklang)?
Any suggestions are welcome and very much appreciated!
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Helping Hand
- Wide Guard
- Close Combat
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Hyper Voice
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Quick Guard
- Tailwind
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Tailwind
- Sky Drop
- Wide Guard
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 12 HP / 252 SpA / 244 Spe
Modest Nature
- Swift
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Helping Hand
Pretty underwhelming, I know, but this is the first time I've gotten to 100 on AS, as up to now I had been playing only for the trophies.
The reason I'm posting this is because I'd like some advice. A couple of things I'm struggling with:
- Quick Guard on Talonflame seems like a waste of a moveslot. I thought it would be useful to block Ice Shards or faster Fake Outs, but so far I haven't used it once. I have no idea what to replace it with; I've thought about Roost but Talonflame's role is just to set up Tailwind on turn 1 and weaken stuff with BB until it goes down. Taunt, perhaps?
- While MMence's Aerilate Hyper Voice is pretty strong, especially with Helping Hand support, there have been a few times (mostly against Veterans) where it just misses the KO. Since I have Tailwind up basically 100% of the time, would it be a good idea to switch to a Modest Mence, or perhaps go mixed with EQ + something else (since so far Dragon Pulse was only used for Latis and Flamethrower for Registeel and... Klinklang)?
Any suggestions are welcome and very much appreciated!
Mence is indeed fast enough that it doesn't need to be Timid to outspeed everything under Tailwind. But if Tailwind is assumed, is there a reason to run Mega Salamence over more damaging spread attackers such as Mega Blastoise, Sylveon, Mega Gardevoir, Heatran, or even Entei/Typhlosion. These also outspeed all of the Maison with Tailwind support. With Talonflame as the setter, Brave Bird and Aerilate HV share the same typing, which doesn't help much when trying to pick off what Hyper Voice couldn't.Just got to 100 wins in Super Triples with the following team:
@ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Helping Hand
- Wide Guard
- Close Combat
@ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Hyper Voice
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
@ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Quick Guard
- Tailwind
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
@ Focus Sash
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Tailwind
- Sky Drop
- Wide Guard
@ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 12 HP / 252 SpA / 244 Spe
Modest Nature
- Swift
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock
@ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Helping Hand
Pretty underwhelming, I know, but this is the first time I've gotten to 100 on AS, as up to now I had been playing only for the trophies.
The reason I'm posting this is because I'd like some advice. A couple of things I'm struggling with:
- Quick Guard on Talonflame seems like a waste of a moveslot. I thought it would be useful to block Ice Shards or faster Fake Outs, but so far I haven't used it once. I have no idea what to replace it with; I've thought about Roost but Talonflame's role is just to set up Tailwind on turn 1 and weaken stuff with BB until it goes down. Taunt, perhaps?
- While MMence's Aerilate Hyper Voice is pretty strong, especially with Helping Hand support, there have been a few times (mostly against Veterans) where it just misses the KO. Since I have Tailwind up basically 100% of the time, would it be a good idea to switch to a Modest Mence, or perhaps go mixed with EQ + something else (since so far Dragon Pulse was only used for Latis and Flamethrower for Registeel and... Klinklang)?
Any suggestions are welcome and very much appreciated!
VaporeonIce, Jump clarified on IRC that he doesn't have an answer to this.
Greninja (and other leads that don't have a set-up move or a crippling move in general) are inferior to Dragon Dance/PuP/Shell Smash/Entrainment leads by default with how strong those are in the Maison.
Mega Salamence is an inferior Dragonite whose advantages (Intimidate and a higher-BP main STAB with different typing) are difficult to capitalize on. Multiscale is mostly better than Intimidate and Mega Mence's bulk unless you can somehow capitalize on Intimidate with teammates.
When you scrap Mence in favor of Dragonite and move the dragon to the lead, you arrive at Dragonite/Aegislash/Greninja, which seem like the best teammates for Greninja in the Maison.
Jumpman16, I'm gonna go with the Confide gimmick for a non-Draegininja answer. It breaks the rules by shuffling and scrapping Greninja, but whatever:
Salamence @ Salamencite - Careful Nature, 252HP/4Def/252SDef
-Return
-Dragon Dance
-Confide
-Roost
Drapion @ Black Sludge - Careful Nature, 252HP/60Def/196SDef
-Knock Off
-Rest
-Acupressure
-Substitute
Suicune @ Leftovers - Bold Nature, 196HP/252Def/60Spe
-Scald
-Icy Wind
-Calm Mind
-Rest
Salamence Confides Electric-types and a lot of other stuff so Drapion can set up on them; but can also attack with a big Return, set up with DD, and go kill something on its own. Repeated switching for Intimidate is also possible. Suicune tacked on to switch into Ice attacks, -1 Tyrantrum4 Head Smash, Latios (to be sacked for a Draco Meteor SAtk drop after White Herb is gone from Intimidate), things like that. Could also use Chansey, maybe. Empoleon gets a honorary mention for the possibility of Yawn and FeatherDance with a really neat Water/Steel typing, but it sounds a bit lame.
The gimmick still doesn't seem so good.
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The main reason I chose Mence over a stronger spread attacker (apart from personal preference) is Intimidate. The Attack drop greatly increases Talonflame's longevity (e.g. it usually survives STAB Rock Slides) so it can live through most battles without having to spend a moveslot on Roost (although yeah I do have a "free" slot lol), and the double Intimidate on the center and left positions also adds to Mence's naturally excellent bulk, to the extent where the only moves that can OHKO it without a crit are Ice Beam (which can be seen coming from a mile away and abused with Protect) and Blizzard (which is blocked by Wide Guard). As for the redundant typing, I agree that the team's coverage is occasionally disappointing, but I'm reluctant to swa[ Talonflame for another Tailwind setter due to the insurance Brave Bird offers against Trick Room teams, as I can't always guarantee it won't go up -- another reason to run Taunt over Quick Guard, I guess? :p I'll try MBlastoise over Mence for a few battles to see how it fares, though. Thanks for your input!
My day has been made. Being (more than likely) the only one in this topic that actually wanted a Rock Head Tyrantrum for Maison use, that also didn't enroll in the competition needed to earn one, I noticed that the distribution had commenced and immediately afterward found a GTS giveaway, and was able to get one before he/she ran out.
It's a little more significant because HA Tyrantrum was the final entry on my wish list for previously unobtainable things for TR randoms, so once I breed the appropriate IVs, I'll have no more breeding to do for quite a while and can just focus on battling again.
...lol who am I kidding I want Sheer Force Feraligatr too. Sadly must forego the Life Orb, but Swords Dance will compensate and an Iron Ball will make it suitably slow as piss. Then... THEN my roster shall be complete.
It's a little more significant because HA Tyrantrum was the final entry on my wish list for previously unobtainable things for TR randoms, so once I breed the appropriate IVs, I'll have no more breeding to do for quite a while and can just focus on battling again.
...lol who am I kidding I want Sheer Force Feraligatr too. Sadly must forego the Life Orb, but Swords Dance will compensate and an Iron Ball will make it suitably slow as piss. Then... THEN my roster shall be complete.
I don't know if double intimidate is such a good idea. Won't something like a competitive Milotic be a problem? Also, how about maybe replacing Aerodactyl for Whimsicott since it gets priority tailwind and taunt? (I find that rock slide isn't too reliable for any long streaks anyways)
Dam it, I lost for a double self KO team. Last one was a carracosta which could break subs in one hit (EQ) due to no Def boosts :(
Can't update the battle right now, I'm at work. But not that it matters, this is not for the ranks, it's a copycat team from GG Unit that I got borrowed to get a sight of the maison.
Still working on my team, will get to 40+ again using the Void Team once more.
Can't update the battle right now, I'm at work. But not that it matters, this is not for the ranks, it's a copycat team from GG Unit that I got borrowed to get a sight of the maison.
Still working on my team, will get to 40+ again using the Void Team once more.
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I actually haven't had any problems with Defiant/Competitive mons, although I haven't encountered a Competitive Milotic yet. Whimsicott unfortunately doesn't get Wide Guard, which is a move I use a lot to protect Mence, Talon and Aero from Rock Slides and Blizzards and Infernape from Earthquake, but I'm thinking of replacing Aero with Mantine since it also gets Wide Guard.
However, I'll have to start from scratch either way since I just lost my streak at 134 to Minimize Blissey :| That's what I get for not checking the moveset list, I guess, because Close Combat + Hyper Voice + Brave Bird would have KOed it. Oh well.
How does your team handle Chefs? You have the tools to handle individuals like Starmie and Protean Greninja4, but I envision a lot of issues arising when they're stacked, especially if they happened to be alongside Competitive Milotic4, to use the previous example. But at over 100 wins, you would have fought one of those chefs at least once, would you not? How did the battle play out?
Hitmontop and Talonflame together do a bare minimum of 50% to Milotic4's Impish HP/SDef spread and are able to KO it (Hitmontop also outspeeds it), but that also takes Hitmontop's Wide Guard off the table. The Water/Ice team pool has a lot of nasty things it can run in the face of that core, but for as many doomsday scenarios I can think of, I can imagine feasible methods of handling them, so I'm really interested in how battles with those teams usually play out.
Hitmontop and Talonflame together do a bare minimum of 50% to Milotic4's Impish HP/SDef spread and are able to KO it (Hitmontop also outspeeds it), but that also takes Hitmontop's Wide Guard off the table. The Water/Ice team pool has a lot of nasty things it can run in the face of that core, but for as many doomsday scenarios I can think of, I can imagine feasible methods of handling them, so I'm really interested in how battles with those teams usually play out.
Chefs (and Water- and Ice-types in general, I guess) are handled by Protect, pretty much, since every Pokémon with Ice Beam will invariably target Salamence, buying me an extra turn to take them out with Close Combat + Brave Bird. Mence going down isn't really a problem either, since this will usually only happen against Chefs and Sandstorm teams, which are easily beaten by Sylveon and Hitmontop/Infernape, respectively.
Unfortunately, there are only 2 battles against Chefs that I can recall: on one of them, Close Combat + Brave Bird took out 2 foes on turn 1, and the other 4 mons were beaten by Helping Hand Hyper Voice + Brave Bird. On the other, I used Fake Out + Protect + Tailwind (my usual strategy), Mence fainted on turn 2 and Sylveon OHKOd the rest of the enemy team.
I think I'll print a list of Pokémon4 movesets + special trainer info and sets before I start another streak, as it would greatly ease prediction (not having to Protect against Blizzard, for example) and prevent dumb misplays such as losing to Blissey4.
Unfortunately, there are only 2 battles against Chefs that I can recall: on one of them, Close Combat + Brave Bird took out 2 foes on turn 1, and the other 4 mons were beaten by Helping Hand Hyper Voice + Brave Bird. On the other, I used Fake Out + Protect + Tailwind (my usual strategy), Mence fainted on turn 2 and Sylveon OHKOd the rest of the enemy team.
I think I'll print a list of Pokémon4 movesets + special trainer info and sets before I start another streak, as it would greatly ease prediction (not having to Protect against Blizzard, for example) and prevent dumb misplays such as losing to Blissey4.
The Water/Ice types stand out because they carry moves of both types, usually, and if both Talonflame (extremely easy to OHKO) and Mence are present, it's actually a coin flip as to who they'll go after.
Milotic4 can opt to Surf or Ice Beam, for instance. Greninja and Starmie carry Extrasensory and Psychic, which they may opt to use against Hitmontop, as well. While the AI does seem to value base power given some of the reckless decisions they make when targeting low HP pokes, a OHKO is a OHKO, and I can't be the only one that has a warstory in which a battle went to hell because the pokemon that used Protect was not the one that got attacked and subsequently slaughtered.
Anyway, I got another Master Ball just now from my secret pals, and this one paralleled an Aspear Berry and Everstone, leading me again to believe that the Master Ball might not have any set groupings. It may also be possible to get a Lansat Berry through pals... who knows.
Edit: Getting tired of breeding Tyrunts (I did get an unusable shiny out of it thus far, though, whee) I went back to battling a bit more, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but I've become a big fan of including awful filthy 31-IVd positive-natured speedy beasts in my pool. But JUST A COUPLE. They must know that they are outsiders and not actually welcome. I allowed them to fight with me under duress.
What started as a held item conflict I refused to compromise ended with me doing what I'd used to do, that being hand-picking a 6th mon to fill that spot. Very against my personal ruleset, but it was also very rare. Not only that, I decided to utilize the tactic of "backup non-TR poke" because of indecisions caused by this uncompromisable conflict. In this case, I decided to use Terrakion. In addition to its excellent STAB and offense, it fell into a kind of cruel speed tier that gave it so many checks for a mon normally considered pretty fast.
Aaaaaand it was so frigging fun to use. A Jolly legendary with 176 speed happily coming in under Trick Room and murdering Floatzels and Weaviles and Aerodactyls, Latios, and so on, or coming in on the final turn of TR, Protecting against bait, and using Sacred Sword to murder a poke I'd allowed to spend the whole battle Cursing.
Having enjoyed myself, and making sure no one was watching, I then placed an Analytic Starmie onto my team the following streak once I noticed an easily avoided item conflict. Similarly fun times were had, especially when Analytic was also taking effect the usual way, alterating Psychic in the face of survived Thunderbolts or Hydro Pumps, anticipating switches to absorb pokes. Starmie was not exactly the behemoth Terrakion was, but it was still surprisingly useful and mitigated the need for second helpings of TR. It cleaned some messes efficiently enough to make me overlook its general frailty (considering re-EVing even to dump a little bit of speed.)
Starmie and Terrakion are the only two I can bring myself to almost make mainstays, and even then I want to limit them to occasions a poke's "best" held item is already in use, instead of letting them be drawn by the initial team roll. Regardless, that was a nice little break from hatching these fucking eggs. My streak still hasn't broken, and I still haven't resorted to letting one team do several dozen battles, so I'm satisfied for now.
Milotic4 can opt to Surf or Ice Beam, for instance. Greninja and Starmie carry Extrasensory and Psychic, which they may opt to use against Hitmontop, as well. While the AI does seem to value base power given some of the reckless decisions they make when targeting low HP pokes, a OHKO is a OHKO, and I can't be the only one that has a warstory in which a battle went to hell because the pokemon that used Protect was not the one that got attacked and subsequently slaughtered.
Anyway, I got another Master Ball just now from my secret pals, and this one paralleled an Aspear Berry and Everstone, leading me again to believe that the Master Ball might not have any set groupings. It may also be possible to get a Lansat Berry through pals... who knows.
Edit: Getting tired of breeding Tyrunts (I did get an unusable shiny out of it thus far, though, whee) I went back to battling a bit more, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but I've become a big fan of including awful filthy 31-IVd positive-natured speedy beasts in my pool. But JUST A COUPLE. They must know that they are outsiders and not actually welcome. I allowed them to fight with me under duress.
What started as a held item conflict I refused to compromise ended with me doing what I'd used to do, that being hand-picking a 6th mon to fill that spot. Very against my personal ruleset, but it was also very rare. Not only that, I decided to utilize the tactic of "backup non-TR poke" because of indecisions caused by this uncompromisable conflict. In this case, I decided to use Terrakion. In addition to its excellent STAB and offense, it fell into a kind of cruel speed tier that gave it so many checks for a mon normally considered pretty fast.
Aaaaaand it was so frigging fun to use. A Jolly legendary with 176 speed happily coming in under Trick Room and murdering Floatzels and Weaviles and Aerodactyls, Latios, and so on, or coming in on the final turn of TR, Protecting against bait, and using Sacred Sword to murder a poke I'd allowed to spend the whole battle Cursing.
Having enjoyed myself, and making sure no one was watching, I then placed an Analytic Starmie onto my team the following streak once I noticed an easily avoided item conflict. Similarly fun times were had, especially when Analytic was also taking effect the usual way, alterating Psychic in the face of survived Thunderbolts or Hydro Pumps, anticipating switches to absorb pokes. Starmie was not exactly the behemoth Terrakion was, but it was still surprisingly useful and mitigated the need for second helpings of TR. It cleaned some messes efficiently enough to make me overlook its general frailty (considering re-EVing even to dump a little bit of speed.)
Starmie and Terrakion are the only two I can bring myself to almost make mainstays, and even then I want to limit them to occasions a poke's "best" held item is already in use, instead of letting them be drawn by the initial team roll. Regardless, that was a nice little break from hatching these fucking eggs. My streak still hasn't broken, and I still haven't resorted to letting one team do several dozen battles, so I'm satisfied for now.
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Unfortunately, as cool as I think they are, my new Rotations team kind of sucks. I lost at battle 114, for a streak of 113.
Here's the team:
Latias @ Latiasite (Airawing)
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Speed
IVs: 31/1/31/31/27/31
~ Substitute
~ Calm Mind
~ Recover (fuk Roost)
~ Stored Power
Best soft-reset of my life. That 1 Attack IV is golden; I don't even care about the missing 4 IVs in SpDef. Thanks, Eon Ticket!
I fell in love with this set when I saw it used in OU. Mega Latias is hilariously bulky; if an attack doesn't have STAB and isn't super-effective, it's not breaking the Sub. Sometimes, attacks will fail to break the Sub, even if one of those things is true. Here's Metagross 4's Meteor Mash:
0 Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Mega Latias: 42-51 (22.4 - 27.2%) -- 32.9% chance to 4HKO
...lulz.
After a few Calm Minds, the Subs are unbreakable by special attacks. Unfortunately, Mega Latias has a bunch of weaknesses (Ice, Dragon, Fairy, Dark, Ghost), and while most of those are primarily special (meaning Calm Minds will eventually negate them), I did need to patch them up. The fact that Stored Power can't hurt Dark-types is also a problem. And, last but not least, Mega Latias does crap damage unless she has at least two Calm Minds up. So while she can sweep lots of teams by herself, Ariawing often needs help. Enter...
Clefable (M) @ Leftovers (Furby)
Ability: Unaware
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Speed
~ Moonblast
~ Moonlight
~ Aromatherapy
~ Calm Mind
...another physically-defensive EV'd Bold Calm Mind mono-attacker who does crap damage without boosts! How original! But while Clefable is fucking weak without SEVERAL Calm Minds, its Fairy-typing proved invaluable. The gold star of the set is Unaware, turning annoying pieces of crap like Gyarados and Volcarona into set-up fodder. Dragon Dance Salamence is laughably bad against Clefable. With only two weaknesses and respectable bulk (especially after a few Calm Minds), Clefable can hold his own pretty well. Moonblast messes up the Dark-types that cause Ariawing problems. Oh, and Moonlight fucking sucks (I never ran out of PP, but Sandstorm, Hail, and Rain were all massively annoying), but Softboiled is illegal with Unaware. The fact that they haven't reintroduced the Softboiled tutor in a drag.
I found myself worrying about a few Pokemon, though. These two are slow, and are easily picked off by Destiny Bond Gengar/Froslass. Bisharp causes problems with Iron Head and its Dark-typing rendering Mega Latias useless. I wanted something that could just come in, be the fastest Pokemon on the field, and kill things when I needed it to. Enter...
Blaziken (M) @ Life Orb (Hammer Pants)
Ability: Speed Boost
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpDef / 252 Speed
~ Protect
~ Flare Blitz
~ Low Kick
~ Earthquake
Okay, Blaziken isn't actually wearing Hammer pants. He's wearing bellbottoms, which are funny pants, and he hits like a hammer.
Blaziken solves a lot of problems with this team, albeit somewhat unreliably. Froslass survived with 1 HP and is threatening Destiny Bond? Blaziken. Gengar threatening Latias with Shadow Ball and Clefable with Sludge Bomb? Blaziken. Is Jynx threatening to freeze Latias to death despite her several Calm Minds? Blaziken. He's good for sniping stuff like Staraptor as well, who just hit too hard to leave alive for long.
Protect gives Blaziken the speed he needs, because he's really not very fast. Adamant and Life Orb maximize power, because he REALLY needs it. Blaze nearly OHKOs a lot of things, but even with Adamant Life Orb, he falls a little short sometimes. But he's an amazing cleaner and a good nuke when I need it. Low Kick because Brick Break is weak and High Jump Kick is awful. I chose Earthquake as filler, but it's actually really useful. It's a reliable move that is super-effective on a lot of opponents, and I found myself using it WAY more often than Low Kick. Maybe Brick Break would be a better choice, since it hits a little harder than a neutral Earthquake.
So I needed a fourth Pokemon, and I wanted something that could switch in on Clefable's weaknesses (and some of Latias's weaknesses as well). Being relatively good against Dark would also help, and I wanted added insurance against the Speed crew (Froslass, Gengar, Staraptor, and such). Here's what I came up with:
Scizor (M) @ Choice Band (Strong Bad)
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
~ Bullet Punch
~ Bug Bite
~ Superpower
~ Aerial Ace
Priority is really, really cool, and I felt my team of slow(ish) Calm Mind sweepers needed it. Choice Band seems like a really stupid item for Rotations, and in general, it is. But as back-up, Scizor is more often called upon to clean up than it is to slowly and methodically take out opponents. Bullet Punch is the main reason the set exists, but Bug Bite was useful almost as often for its strong hits against Dark-types and better neutral hits against all kinds of things. I almost never used Superpower; it's a bad move, and it's only worse in Rotations. But I figured that, if I needed Fighting, I would probably need the power. The fact that I almost never used it shouldn't be read into too much; like most Rotations back-ups, Scizor was rarely used. I never used Aerial Ace; honestly, I think Tailwind is the best alternative. Scizor will never do anything useful with extra coverage, but the other teammates could theoretically benefit from actually being fast.
So this team, as much as I love it, is crappy. One huge reason is Volcarona: Clefable is my only answer to it. Blaziken hits it for about 75%, but getting it down to 25% is a massive pain given how weak Latias and Clefable are starting out. If I try to set Latias up to do some damage (which is feasible; Mega Latias is REALLY bulky and Volcarona has no SpAtk EVs), Volcarona can get enough QDs to outspeed Blaziken.
The Dark weakness isn't a huge problem in isolation; as I mentioned, everything BUT Latias hits it super-effectively. Dark + Poison, while aggravating, is pretty well handled by Scizor. But Dark + Poison + a Fire-type is a huge problem. But how likely is that to hapen, right?
No, just kidding. Obviously, Punk Guys/Girls run Dark, Fire, and Poison as their three types, making them public enemy #1.
The losing battle, #114: B2DG-WWWW-WWXD-NHYT
It's worth noting that, in all of my mock battles since, the starting strategy (Protect with Blaziken turn 1, then spam Flare Blitz) has led to a win. I either manage to take out Volcarona with two Flare Blitzes and sweep with Scizor, KO Weavile with Blaziken set up Latias, or take out Victreebel and Toxcriaok with Blaziken + Scizor and set up Clefable. But then, I'm sure there were other battles along the way that I could have lost with the wrong combination of opposing moves; I just didn't notice them because they played out like effortless wins.
I could have played a little differently, but they were mostly coinflips anyway. Flame Plate over Life Orb would have allowed Blaziken to survive its attack on Volcarona, but I'm not sure the loss of power is worth it (particularly on Earthquake). I could try to squeeze Rock Slide in somewhere (maybe passing up on a Fighting move for Blaziken?), but I don't think that changes how many weaknesses this team has. Taunt is a constant annoyance; Thundurus 4 was a massive pain in my side in battle 110, stopping Latias (who otherwise demolishes the AI's team) from setting up. Having one Pokemon that isn't immediately threatened by Volcarona at all is good, but the rest of the team needs to handle it better than this for times when Clefable goes down. The fact that Clefable needs to be at +6 to 2HKO Volcarona certainly doesn't help his case.
Anyway, I hope this was an enjoyable read to somebody. I think I'll try to get the other trophies with other new megas (and not by having them sit on the sidelines in triples, either!). Good luck, everyone!
Here's the team:
Latias @ Latiasite (Airawing)
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Speed
IVs: 31/1/31/31/27/31
~ Substitute
~ Calm Mind
~ Recover (fuk Roost)
~ Stored Power
Best soft-reset of my life. That 1 Attack IV is golden; I don't even care about the missing 4 IVs in SpDef. Thanks, Eon Ticket!
I fell in love with this set when I saw it used in OU. Mega Latias is hilariously bulky; if an attack doesn't have STAB and isn't super-effective, it's not breaking the Sub. Sometimes, attacks will fail to break the Sub, even if one of those things is true. Here's Metagross 4's Meteor Mash:
0 Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Mega Latias: 42-51 (22.4 - 27.2%) -- 32.9% chance to 4HKO
...lulz.
After a few Calm Minds, the Subs are unbreakable by special attacks. Unfortunately, Mega Latias has a bunch of weaknesses (Ice, Dragon, Fairy, Dark, Ghost), and while most of those are primarily special (meaning Calm Minds will eventually negate them), I did need to patch them up. The fact that Stored Power can't hurt Dark-types is also a problem. And, last but not least, Mega Latias does crap damage unless she has at least two Calm Minds up. So while she can sweep lots of teams by herself, Ariawing often needs help. Enter...
Clefable (M) @ Leftovers (Furby)
Ability: Unaware
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Speed
~ Moonblast
~ Moonlight
~ Aromatherapy
~ Calm Mind
...another physically-defensive EV'd Bold Calm Mind mono-attacker who does crap damage without boosts! How original! But while Clefable is fucking weak without SEVERAL Calm Minds, its Fairy-typing proved invaluable. The gold star of the set is Unaware, turning annoying pieces of crap like Gyarados and Volcarona into set-up fodder. Dragon Dance Salamence is laughably bad against Clefable. With only two weaknesses and respectable bulk (especially after a few Calm Minds), Clefable can hold his own pretty well. Moonblast messes up the Dark-types that cause Ariawing problems. Oh, and Moonlight fucking sucks (I never ran out of PP, but Sandstorm, Hail, and Rain were all massively annoying), but Softboiled is illegal with Unaware. The fact that they haven't reintroduced the Softboiled tutor in a drag.
I found myself worrying about a few Pokemon, though. These two are slow, and are easily picked off by Destiny Bond Gengar/Froslass. Bisharp causes problems with Iron Head and its Dark-typing rendering Mega Latias useless. I wanted something that could just come in, be the fastest Pokemon on the field, and kill things when I needed it to. Enter...
Blaziken (M) @ Life Orb (Hammer Pants)
Ability: Speed Boost
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpDef / 252 Speed
~ Protect
~ Flare Blitz
~ Low Kick
~ Earthquake
Okay, Blaziken isn't actually wearing Hammer pants. He's wearing bellbottoms, which are funny pants, and he hits like a hammer.
Blaziken solves a lot of problems with this team, albeit somewhat unreliably. Froslass survived with 1 HP and is threatening Destiny Bond? Blaziken. Gengar threatening Latias with Shadow Ball and Clefable with Sludge Bomb? Blaziken. Is Jynx threatening to freeze Latias to death despite her several Calm Minds? Blaziken. He's good for sniping stuff like Staraptor as well, who just hit too hard to leave alive for long.
Protect gives Blaziken the speed he needs, because he's really not very fast. Adamant and Life Orb maximize power, because he REALLY needs it. Blaze nearly OHKOs a lot of things, but even with Adamant Life Orb, he falls a little short sometimes. But he's an amazing cleaner and a good nuke when I need it. Low Kick because Brick Break is weak and High Jump Kick is awful. I chose Earthquake as filler, but it's actually really useful. It's a reliable move that is super-effective on a lot of opponents, and I found myself using it WAY more often than Low Kick. Maybe Brick Break would be a better choice, since it hits a little harder than a neutral Earthquake.
So I needed a fourth Pokemon, and I wanted something that could switch in on Clefable's weaknesses (and some of Latias's weaknesses as well). Being relatively good against Dark would also help, and I wanted added insurance against the Speed crew (Froslass, Gengar, Staraptor, and such). Here's what I came up with:
Scizor (M) @ Choice Band (Strong Bad)
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
~ Bullet Punch
~ Bug Bite
~ Superpower
~ Aerial Ace
Priority is really, really cool, and I felt my team of slow(ish) Calm Mind sweepers needed it. Choice Band seems like a really stupid item for Rotations, and in general, it is. But as back-up, Scizor is more often called upon to clean up than it is to slowly and methodically take out opponents. Bullet Punch is the main reason the set exists, but Bug Bite was useful almost as often for its strong hits against Dark-types and better neutral hits against all kinds of things. I almost never used Superpower; it's a bad move, and it's only worse in Rotations. But I figured that, if I needed Fighting, I would probably need the power. The fact that I almost never used it shouldn't be read into too much; like most Rotations back-ups, Scizor was rarely used. I never used Aerial Ace; honestly, I think Tailwind is the best alternative. Scizor will never do anything useful with extra coverage, but the other teammates could theoretically benefit from actually being fast.
So this team, as much as I love it, is crappy. One huge reason is Volcarona: Clefable is my only answer to it. Blaziken hits it for about 75%, but getting it down to 25% is a massive pain given how weak Latias and Clefable are starting out. If I try to set Latias up to do some damage (which is feasible; Mega Latias is REALLY bulky and Volcarona has no SpAtk EVs), Volcarona can get enough QDs to outspeed Blaziken.
The Dark weakness isn't a huge problem in isolation; as I mentioned, everything BUT Latias hits it super-effectively. Dark + Poison, while aggravating, is pretty well handled by Scizor. But Dark + Poison + a Fire-type is a huge problem. But how likely is that to hapen, right?
No, just kidding. Obviously, Punk Guys/Girls run Dark, Fire, and Poison as their three types, making them public enemy #1.
The losing battle, #114: B2DG-WWWW-WWXD-NHYT
Surprise! It's a Punk Girl (Hadley)! She sends out Weavile, Volcarona, and Victreebel.
The Victreebel is the only "problem"; otherwise, Clefable does really well (though Weavile's Taunt is a problem). But Victreebel slaughters Clefable, so I decide I need to start killing things with Blaziken. I rotate it in and use Protect (Weavile and Victreebel both outspeed). Volcarona uses Quiver Dance; god dammit. Blaziken gets hit by Weavile Fake Out. AI rotates to Victreebel, who is KO'd. Good, now I can set up Clefable.
...oh no wait, Toxicroak came in. Hooray...another Poison-type and Taunt user, and Blaziken is under 50% health after Fake Out + Flare Blitz recoil + LO damage. Blaziken uses Flare Blitz on the rotated Volcarona, who uses Quiver Dance. Blaziken faints to recoil.
Rotate to Clefable, use Calm Mind, tank Bug Buzz comfortable. Use Moonblast (trying to get Volcarona into Bullet Punch range, but hitting Weavile works too); Weavile rotates in, uses Taunt, and gets knocked to its Sash. I try Moonblast again (hoping to hit Volcarona); Toxicroak comes in and KO's Clefable with Gunk Shot.
I go to Latias; I REALLY want to set up Calm Minds to take out Volcarona. Toxicroak uses Taunt and blocks it; I use Stored Power next turn (it uses Cross Chop) and take off over 50% of Croak's health (lol 20 BP).
At this point, Scizor can KO Toxicroak and KO Weavile, and can MAYBE 2HKO the weakened Volcarona (potentially surviving Bug Buzz). Latias gets murdered by everything, so I use Bullet Punch with Scizor. Volcarona comes in and KOs with Heat Wave.
Toxicroak uses Gunk Shot and faints to Stored Power. Volcarona uses Bug Buzz; Latias faints.
The Victreebel is the only "problem"; otherwise, Clefable does really well (though Weavile's Taunt is a problem). But Victreebel slaughters Clefable, so I decide I need to start killing things with Blaziken. I rotate it in and use Protect (Weavile and Victreebel both outspeed). Volcarona uses Quiver Dance; god dammit. Blaziken gets hit by Weavile Fake Out. AI rotates to Victreebel, who is KO'd. Good, now I can set up Clefable.
...oh no wait, Toxicroak came in. Hooray...another Poison-type and Taunt user, and Blaziken is under 50% health after Fake Out + Flare Blitz recoil + LO damage. Blaziken uses Flare Blitz on the rotated Volcarona, who uses Quiver Dance. Blaziken faints to recoil.
Rotate to Clefable, use Calm Mind, tank Bug Buzz comfortable. Use Moonblast (trying to get Volcarona into Bullet Punch range, but hitting Weavile works too); Weavile rotates in, uses Taunt, and gets knocked to its Sash. I try Moonblast again (hoping to hit Volcarona); Toxicroak comes in and KO's Clefable with Gunk Shot.
I go to Latias; I REALLY want to set up Calm Minds to take out Volcarona. Toxicroak uses Taunt and blocks it; I use Stored Power next turn (it uses Cross Chop) and take off over 50% of Croak's health (lol 20 BP).
At this point, Scizor can KO Toxicroak and KO Weavile, and can MAYBE 2HKO the weakened Volcarona (potentially surviving Bug Buzz). Latias gets murdered by everything, so I use Bullet Punch with Scizor. Volcarona comes in and KOs with Heat Wave.
Toxicroak uses Gunk Shot and faints to Stored Power. Volcarona uses Bug Buzz; Latias faints.
It's worth noting that, in all of my mock battles since, the starting strategy (Protect with Blaziken turn 1, then spam Flare Blitz) has led to a win. I either manage to take out Volcarona with two Flare Blitzes and sweep with Scizor, KO Weavile with Blaziken set up Latias, or take out Victreebel and Toxcriaok with Blaziken + Scizor and set up Clefable. But then, I'm sure there were other battles along the way that I could have lost with the wrong combination of opposing moves; I just didn't notice them because they played out like effortless wins.
I could have played a little differently, but they were mostly coinflips anyway. Flame Plate over Life Orb would have allowed Blaziken to survive its attack on Volcarona, but I'm not sure the loss of power is worth it (particularly on Earthquake). I could try to squeeze Rock Slide in somewhere (maybe passing up on a Fighting move for Blaziken?), but I don't think that changes how many weaknesses this team has. Taunt is a constant annoyance; Thundurus 4 was a massive pain in my side in battle 110, stopping Latias (who otherwise demolishes the AI's team) from setting up. Having one Pokemon that isn't immediately threatened by Volcarona at all is good, but the rest of the team needs to handle it better than this for times when Clefable goes down. The fact that Clefable needs to be at +6 to 2HKO Volcarona certainly doesn't help his case.
Anyway, I hope this was an enjoyable read to somebody. I think I'll try to get the other trophies with other new megas (and not by having them sit on the sidelines in triples, either!). Good luck, everyone!
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