Battle Spot Teambuilding Discussion & Help Thread (read post #453, page 19)

[Omastar68]

Better than I could have hoped in truth.

To be honest I dont have much experience with that side of the team, I just dont bring them that much when the main three work so well. I feel like I need Taunt somewhere on the team. I never build with it on any BS team and that's a weakness.

I was on PS the other day and someone was singing the praises of Twave Hydrei and I just ran with it

They all came from the analyses so I'd need a great (read: better) reason to change it. And when I put this on cart I'm not breeding for anything that isn't a 0 or 31 IV lol

An example of good and effective this team is against three decent threats.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespotsingles-359103952

I'm glad the Hippo is working so well, albeit kinda surprised. It's obviously more bulky on the physical side, so capitalizing on that usually seems better I'd think. Just because the base stat is so much higher I think a Relaxed Nature has merit even with SpD investment.

I guess if you don't bring the other three mons that often there's not really much of a weakness for them to address. So my suggestion would then be to use some stuff that is just considered good in general rather than sorta niche for some stuff. Playing off of that I think Cress over P2, and then a different Taunter, such as Talon or Thund. If you wanna keep Mawi and TR that works, but I think Kang and then T-Wave over TR on Cress would be even better.

Those standard sorts of mons can be a little boring, so maybe something else would be better, or just keep what you have bar maybe Hydra cuz that seems meh, at least as t-Wave when you have TR and a mix of stuff already fast(Luc,) and stuff ok with being slow(aforementioned TR duo and Hippo. Paralysis also means no Yawn, or Toxic if you decide to put that in.)

Must've been jroxas you saw talking about t-wave Hydra. It looks ok, just prolly not for your team I don't think.

Fancy EV spreads can do a lot of good. I'll try and find you at least a few better ones. I've never really used any of your main core mons, so don't have anything off the top of my head, tho I did run DNite once upon a time and I think it likes a little less Spe then you have, tho bulk investment isn't too important with Multiscale(and hard to calc with,) so max/Max is fine IMO. Go 0 Spe on Hippo if you don't want a weirder IV. 25 Spe isn't that hard to breed for though, you'd just ask someone to RNG you a 25 Spe Ditto in the SQSR thread, though it's true that it really doesn't do much.

You also seem a little weak to Azumarill, especially since Hippo has less Def. Mawile has a pretty easy time against it tho.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Hippowdon: 200-236 (93 - 109.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Actually max Def won't avoid a 2HKO from any Azu anyways, unless you opt for Sitrus still, and obviously CB is still 2HKOing.

EDIT: Haven't done too many calcs, but 252 HP/ 124+ Def/ 132 SpD Sitrus seems good. Megamence has a very low chance to 2HKO without a boost, as does Kang. CB Azu rarely ever OHKOs, and non CB has a decent chance to only 3HKO cuz Berry. 252 SpA LO Thund only OHKOs about a third of the time, but shuts you down completely if it's Taunt anyways. If you go for Helmet instead just max Def.

Very nitpicky, but I'd move the SpD to HP on Luc. Still has the same chance to avoid an OHKO from 252 LO Thun t-bolt, and slightly lowers the chance for CB Talon to OHKO. Probably does other stuff too.

 

[6tennis]

K, so it appears I need to explain how this core works.

If you've ever played Ubers, you'd know that one of the top teams involves using one sweep enabler and five setup sweepers. This is to put immense pressure on the opponent, and often they'll need to respond with a variety of counters. Hippo Dog Dragon aims to do that, but with only 3 mons. Simple.

Hippowdon is our enabler. With its help, our pair of setup sweepers will be able to tear through 3 mons. Generally, you'll want Sand up. You can run Stealth Rocks if you wish, although they aren't all that useful. Naturally, to break through Hippowdon, your opponent will attempt to switch to a Water or Grass type, or just something that can kill Hippo. This is all part of our plan, however. We want to use these mons as setup fodder. This is why teams with five setup sweepers thrive in Ubers; they can all, when working together, cover a lot of checks. Thankfully, Dragonite and Lucario do this job fine.

Lucario is somewhat frail, so you'll want to bring him in on defensive threats. The game plan is to Swords Dance a lot, then go to town with Close Combat or Iron Tail. The wonderful thing about this is that while your opponent can switch to something that can take a boosted CC or Iron Tail, they aren't doing it twice, and you also have Extreme Speed. Extreme Speed helps additionally in whittling down any potential checks to Dragonite before Lucario goes down.

Dragonite is our offense killer. With a combination of Multiscale, Dragon Dance, a priority move, and a STAB 120 BP move, your opponents will have a hard time standing up to a Dragonite at +1. With Multiscale, you get an almost free setup, which enables you to plow through teams that can't appropriately check it. "But Tennis," you might be asking yourself, "How will I get set up if I don't have Multiscale because of sand?" The answer: you, uh, don't. The idea is to set up while you have Multiscale active, so that sand doesn't adversely affect you. Then, you're free to go to town with no worry of Sashes. That said, a handful of defensive mons, as well as Fairy-types in general, can wall Dragonite; however, since we have Lucario, we are able to plough through both of these types of mons (except for the rare Iron Defense Slowbro, to which you concede or bring Thund).

Due to the sheer offense given by this core, it has very limited checks; however, they do exist. Slowbro is far and away the best counter for this core, since it can carry Iron Defense, has Ice Beam to nuke Dragonite, and it resists both of Lucario's STAB moves. Thundurus is a more offensive remedy to the onslaught, able to paralyze Lucario then kill it, win versus Hippowdon, and nuke Dragonite with HP Ice. The best thing this core can do against Thund is to repeatedly press Extreme Speed until it dies. Tank Thund doesn't carry Grass Knot, but it does an even better job at keeping Lucario and Dragonite at bay. You can check the "Break that Core" thread for more checks to this core.

I sincerely hope this guide helped, since it's quite hard to use as well as to fight.

 

[Omastar68]

K, so it appears I need to explain how this core works.

If you've ever played Ubers, you'd know that one of the top teams involves using one sweep enabler and five setup sweepers. This is to put immense pressure on the opponent, and often they'll need to respond with a variety of counters. Hippo Dog Dragon aims to do that, but with only 3 mons. Simple.

Hippowdon is our enabler. With its help, our pair of setup sweepers will be able to tear through 3 mons. Generally, you'll want Sand up. You can run Stealth Rocks if you wish, although they aren't all that useful. Naturally, to break through Hippowdon, your opponent will attempt to switch to a Water or Grass type, or just something that can kill Hippo. This is all part of our plan, however. We want to use these mons as setup fodder. This is why teams with five setup sweepers thrive in Ubers; they can all, when working together, cover a lot of checks. Thankfully, Dragonite and Lucario do this job fine.

Lucario is somewhat frail, so you'll want to bring him in on defensive threats. The game plan is to Swords Dance a lot, then go to town with Close Combat or Iron Tail. The wonderful thing about this is that while your opponent can switch to something that can take a boosted CC or Iron Tail, they aren't doing it twice, and you also have Extreme Speed. Extreme Speed helps additionally in whittling down any potential checks to Dragonite before Lucario goes down.

Dragonite is our offense killer. With a combination of Multiscale, Dragon Dance, a priority move, and a STAB 120 BP move, your opponents will have a hard time standing up to a Dragonite at +1. With Multiscale, you get an almost free setup, which enables you to plow through teams that can't appropriately check it. "But Tennis," you might be asking yourself, "How will I get set up if I don't have Multiscale because of sand?" The answer: you, uh, don't. The idea is to set up while you have Multiscale active, so that sand doesn't adversely affect you. Then, you're free to go to town with no worry of Sashes. That said, a handful of defensive mons, as well as Fairy-types in general, can wall Dragonite; however, since we have Lucario, we are able to plough through both of these types of mons (except for the rare Iron Defense Slowbro, to which you concede or bring Thund).

Due to the sheer offense given by this core, it has very limited checks; however, they do exist. Slowbro is far and away the best counter for this core, since it can carry Iron Defense, has Ice Beam to nuke Dragonite, and it resists both of Lucario's STAB moves. Thundurus is a more offensive remedy to the onslaught, able to paralyze Lucario then kill it, win versus Hippowdon, and nuke Dragonite with HP Ice. The best thing this core can do against Thund is to repeatedly press Extreme Speed until it dies. Tank Thund doesn't carry Grass Knot, but it does an even better job at keeping Lucario and Dragonite at bay. You can check the "Break that Core" thread for more checks to this core.

I sincerely hope this guide helped, since it's quite hard to use as well as to fight.

They do sound pretty great, but what I'm wondering is why Hippo, Luc, and DNite aren't THAT common. Sure they see plenty of use, but they're still all below 20 in usage, and I don't think any of them have appeared in the top 12 ever.

That's mayb not a question for this thread so much since I'm not asking for teambuilding help, but still. Seems like with how good this core is it should be more common. Particularly on PS I like never see it, tho I hear cart players are better so there's that.

 

[cant say]

Something 6tennis didn't mention with Dragonite is that if you send it in after Hippo (or Luc) faints, its Multiscale will still be active as it doesn't take damage on that turn, so you can still get that first DD off before taking sand damage at the end of that turn.

I also like special Luc better in that core better but it's really up to preference. I just don't like Iron Tail and you then get both a physical and special sweeper...

 

[a0161613]

Something 6tennis didn't mention with Dragonite is that if you send it in after Hippo (or Luc) faints, its Multiscale will still be active as it doesn't take damage on that turn, so you can still get that first DD off before taking sand damage at the end of that turn.

I also like special Luc better in that core better but it's really up to preference. I just don't like Iron Tail and you then get both a physical and special sweeper...

Exactly. ID Slowbro is tough but Special Lucario sets up NP and hurts it with Flash Cannon.

 

[6tennis]

Something 6tennis didn't mention with Dragonite is that if you send it in after Hippo (or Luc) faints, its Multiscale will still be active as it doesn't take damage on that turn, so you can still get that first DD off before taking sand damage at the end of that turn.

I also like special Luc better in that core better but it's really up to preference. I just don't like Iron Tail and you then get both a physical and special sweeper...

I did mention that. I think. Also, yeah Special Luc is cool.

 

[A Helpful Rayquaza]

Outrage is preferable on salamence for the extra damage output most often. Knock off on conkeldurr is better instead of thunderpunch for ghost pokemon and the ability to get rid of held items. Hp Ice (or grass knot) is preferable on thundurus because of its better coverage for ground types and in general. Thunderbolt and voltswitch both is a bit too much for rotom i think, maybe a status move like will-o-wisp or t-wave will be helpful. T-wave suits your team more because its primarily heavy offense i think.

Thanks

 

[pokemaster12345]

what are some good teammates for focus sash breloom. Right now I have Mega blaze, cress, heatran, mega kang, rotom-w.

 

[Psynergy]

what are some good teammates for focus sash breloom. Right now I have Mega blaze, cress, heatran, mega kang, rotom-w.

Heatran is definitely a great partner, handles all of Breloom's weaknesses and notably can stop Talonflame in cases where Breloom has lost its Focus Sash. It also handles Aegislash, and by extension anything that can beat Aegislash is a good partner for Breloom (Band Garchomp, SpDef Talonflame, Specs Hydreigon). Breloom also hates Grass types since it can't Spore them and they usually beat Breloom 1v1, so Flying-types like Salamence and Talonflame are good for beating things like Mega Venusaur which hardcore walls Breloom no matter what. Suicune can also handle Fire-types and notably Mamoswine, who can normally just Icicle Spear Breloom to death through Sash. I'd recommend the Breloom analysis for more details on Breloom and good partners, since it's easy to just say "x" is good with Breloom.

 

[ArchangelPT]

This is a singles XY team

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Double-Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake

Garchomp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Swords Dance
- Rock Tomb

Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Knock Off

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Hidden Power Ice
- Heat Wave

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast
- Destiny Bond

I'm not gonna lie, i like to win. I've been trying to avoid using M-Khan because he feels "cheap" but i've given up on such fruitless endeavors.

Simply put i just want the best possible team with the least amount of gimmicks.

 

[a0161613]

ArchangelPT thunder wave & gyro ball is counter productive.

 

[Omastar68]

This is a singles XY team

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Double-Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake

Garchomp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Swords Dance
- Rock Tomb

Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Knock Off

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Hidden Power Ice
- Heat Wave

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast
- Destiny Bond

I'm not gonna lie, i like to win. I've been trying to avoid using M-Khan because he feels "cheap" but i've given up on such fruitless endeavors.

Simply put i just want the best possible team with the least amount of gimmicks.

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Level: 50
EVs: 140 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Rock Slide
- Secret Power
- Power-Up Punch

This is what I run on my Kang and I think you'd benefit from doing so too. Secret Power avoids damage dealt when you make contact, such as from Helmet and Rough Skin. It can also paralyze, which is always helpful and synergize very well with Rock Slide, which is a 30% chance to flinch on each hit. Other two moves you have so don't really need to explain those.

The EVs are very specific here. 100 Spe and a neutral Spe nature is just for up to 252 Spe base 70s without a boosting nature(most base 70s don't run +Spe, except the minority of Breloom, tho they're still less than half as common as Adamant ones, and Loom will prolly expect to be outspeed, so it likely won't use Spore.) Max Atk doesn't need much explaining, and it's more common than Jolly on Kang(56.3 to 29.9%.)

The bulk is just giant. An example of this is +6 Azumarill's Aqua Jet only has a 6.3% chance to OHKO, not bad for not resisting. A little more SpD than Def gives Download mons an Atk boost, and does something else I forget while not hurting physical bulk. I often surprise people by taking much less from their attacks then they'd expect, and hope for.

SD and Rock Tomb are both good on Chomp, but I think SD should be run with Stone Edge cuz you're boosting Atk so the power difference becomes greater. Tomb is for non Scarf sets that don't boost, mainly(got this from bobochan, so it's legit.) I see what you're doing with Sash. Personally I prefer Lum with SD, but I'm not sure that's necessarily better.

Azu looks mostly fine, except the dex suggests a spread of 228 HP/ 252+Atk/ 12 Def/ 12 SpD/ 4 Spe for any Azu. I haven't calced with this at all since I don't use Azu, but it looks pretty specific so I'm inclined to think it's good. Certainly better than a max/Max spread.

You either want Ferro to be Imposh with Iron Head over Gyro, or keep the set and change t-wave. Either way I think you also want Leech Seed, probably over Knock Off.

One tiny thing with Zapdos is HP Ice requires a Def IV of 30, so 252 Def is a waste. Drop it to 244 for the same stat, and put extra EVs in SpA.

Gengar I think should be a second mega. Having two is pretty normal, especially when they're the most common two in the meta.

 

[cant say]

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Level: 50
EVs: 140 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Rock Slide
- Secret Power
- Power-Up Punch

This is what I run on my Kang and I think you'd benefit from doing so too. Secret Power avoids damage dealt when you make contact, such as from Helmet and Rough Skin. It can also paralyze, which is always helpful and synergize very well with Rock Slide, which is a 30% chance to flinch on each hit. Other two moves you have so don't really need to explain those.

The EVs are very specific here. 100 Spe and a neutral Spe nature is just for up to 252 Spe base 70s without a boosting nature(most base 70s don't run +Spe, except the minority of Breloom, tho they're still less than half as common as Adamant ones, and Loom will prolly expect to be outspeed, so it likely won't use Spore.) Max Atk doesn't need much explaining, and it's more common than Jolly on Kang(56.3 to 29.9%.)

The bulk is just giant. An example of this is +6 Azumarill's Aqua Jet only has a 6.3% chance to OHKO, not bad for not resisting. A little more SpD than Def gives Download mons an Atk boost, and does something else I forget while not hurting physical bulk. I often surprise people by taking much less from their attacks then they'd expect, and hope for.

SD and Rock Tomb are both good on Chomp, but I think SD should be run with Stone Edge cuz you're boosting Atk so the power difference becomes greater. Tomb is for non Scarf sets that don't boost, mainly(got this from bobochan, so it's legit.) I see what you're doing with Sash. Personally I prefer Lum with SD, but I'm not sure that's necessarily better.

Azu looks mostly fine, except the dex suggests a spread of 228 HP/ 252+Atk/ 12 Def/ 12 SpD/ 4 Spe for any Azu. I haven't calced with this at all since I don't use Azu, but it looks pretty specific so I'm inclined to think it's good. Certainly better than a max/Max spread.

You either want Ferro to be Imposh with Iron Head over Gyro, or keep the set and change t-wave. Either way I think you also want Leech Seed, probably over Knock Off.

One tiny thing with Zapdos is HP Ice requires a Def IV of 30, so 252 Def is a waste. Drop it to 244 for the same stat, and put extra EVs in SpA.

Gengar I think should be a second mega. Having two is pretty normal, especially when they're the most common two in the meta.

I dunno about recommending Secret Power Khan to people starting out. Super standard Khan is fine and he should probably stay with it. SD and Rock Tomb on Sash Chomp together are fine, it works kinda like Swords Dance + Flame Charge Zard X. You SD and destroy stuff with your STABs, and Rock Tomb lets you bop fast things when your Sash in intact, like Thundurus, Gengar etc... Also, defensive HP Ice Zapdos should use IVs of 31/x/31/31/31/30 so it can use max HP/Def

 

[ArchangelPT]

ArchangelPT thunder wave & gyro ball is counter productive.

Ha, you're right. How did i miss that.

Should i replace it with Leech Seed or Stealth rock? I'm not a huge fan of entry hazards on battlespot so i'm thinking leech seed.

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Level: 50
EVs: 140 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Rock Slide
- Secret Power
- Power-Up Punch

This is what I run on my Kang and I think you'd benefit from doing so too. Secret Power avoids damage dealt when you make contact, such as from Helmet and Rough Skin. It can also paralyze, which is always helpful and synergize very well with Rock Slide, which is a 30% chance to flinch on each hit. Other two moves you have so don't really need to explain those.

The EVs are very specific here. 100 Spe and a neutral Spe nature is just for up to 252 Spe base 70s without a boosting nature(most base 70s don't run +Spe, except the minority of Breloom, tho they're still less than half as common as Adamant ones, and Loom will prolly expect to be outspeed, so it likely won't use Spore.) Max Atk doesn't need much explaining, and it's more common than Jolly on Kang(56.3 to 29.9%.)

The bulk is just giant. An example of this is +6 Azumarill's Aqua Jet only has a 6.3% chance to OHKO, not bad for not resisting. A little more SpD than Def gives Download mons an Atk boost, and does something else I forget while not hurting physical bulk. I often surprise people by taking much less from their attacks then they'd expect, and hope for.

SD and Rock Tomb are both good on Chomp, but I think SD should be run with Stone Edge cuz you're boosting Atk so the power difference becomes greater. Tomb is for non Scarf sets that don't boost, mainly(got this from bobochan, so it's legit.) I see what you're doing with Sash. Personally I prefer Lum with SD, but I'm not sure that's necessarily better.

Azu looks mostly fine, except the dex suggests a spread of 228 HP/ 252+Atk/ 12 Def/ 12 SpD/ 4 Spe for any Azu. I haven't calced with this at all since I don't use Azu, but it looks pretty specific so I'm inclined to think it's good. Certainly better than a max/Max spread.

You either want Ferro to be Imposh with Iron Head over Gyro, or keep the set and change t-wave. Either way I think you also want Leech Seed, probably over Knock Off.

One tiny thing with Zapdos is HP Ice requires a Def IV of 30, so 252 Def is a waste. Drop it to 244 for the same stat, and put extra EVs in SpA.

Gengar I think should be a second mega. Having two is pretty normal, especially when they're the most common two in the meta.

I think i'll keep the basic Khan set for now at least until i get the hang of it

I'm not a fan of stone edge because of the accuracy but maybe rock slide?

Maybe Leech seed over Thunder Wave but i think knock off is really useful since ferrothorn forces switches so often

I can use 31/31/31/31/31/30 for Zapdos, doesn't lose anything except it gets a little more susceptible to swagger -> foul play shenanigans

I'm not so sure about running 2 megas, how often do you want to not use M-Khan anyway? Thing's OP

 

[Omastar68]

Ha, you're right. How did i miss that.

Should i replace it with Leech Seed or Stealth rock? I'm not a huge fan of entry hazards on battlespot so i'm thinking leech seed.



I think i'll keep the basic Khan set for now at least until i get the hang of it

I'm not a fan of stone edge because of the accuracy but maybe rock slide?

Maybe Leech seed over Thunder Wave but i think knock off is really useful since ferrothorn forces switches so often

I can use 31/31/31/31/31/30 for Zapdos, doesn't lose anything except it gets a little more susceptible to swagger -> foul play shenanigans

I'm not so sure about running 2 megas, how often do you want to not use M-Khan anyway? Thing's OP

I'm actually not sure that running two Megas is that good of an idea. It is fairly common tho. Kang is pretty much always mega, and Gengar is mega more often than not(70.36%.) They are common teammates for each other, so people are definitely running them both mega on the same teams.

When using two Megas, which I always have done pretty much, I actually often pick the other one. Kang is good, but often there's stuff that gives it trouble, like Suicune and Blaziken(my other mega has been Venusaur many times, and with proper physical bulk that deals well with most Blaziken, and can Leech Seed Suicune.) If you're running Gengar and Kang as Megas some times you'll bring Gengar instead are when you see mons such as Cress and Lopunny(Cress is really common and not a complete stop to Kang, so you aren't necessarily gonna bring Gengar just for Cress. Lopunny tho takes Kang to town, but can't quite OHKO even non bulky Mega Gengar, and then takes a WoW or just dies to Sludge Bomb with some prior damage. Focus Blast doesn't need prior damage, but is liable to miss.)

Really I don't see much harm in making Gengar a mega too. Sometimes It'll help you, and the worst that'll ever happen is you pick Kang too so Gengar is basically itemless. But I think no LO is worth the potential pay off of mega evolving, as Mega Gengar is quite a built faster and bulkier than regular, and it's similar power to even LO.

 

[ArchangelPT]

Sometimes It'll help you, and the worst that'll ever happen is you pick Kang too so Gengar is basically itemless.

Yes and that "worst" is quite terrible. I appreciate the input but i just think it's a bad idea.

 

[Omastar68]

No, no, you prolly already knew to change it base on what someone else said, and God no. Well is at least the EVs for Azu thing valid? Lol, did not give the best advice.

 

[Tarzan11]

So Swampert is the next Pokemon I want to breed and learn to use. Looked at Battle Spot Stats and saw that its item usage was 35% Swampertite, 30% Sitrus Berry, 15% Rocky Helmet, 7% Leftovers, and 4% Assault Vest, and saw that its nature was split as 41% Bold, 40% Adamant, 10% Impish. Can someone tell what are the viable builds? Going by the items and natures, it looks like there are at least 3 Swampert builds.

http://battlespotstats.com/?game=ORAS&season=15&format=Single#Swampert

 

[Omastar68]

So Swampert is the next Pokemon I want to breed and learn to use. Looked at Battle Spot Stats and saw that its item usage was 35% Swampertite, 30% Sitrus Berry, 15% Rocky Helmet, 7% Leftovers, and 4% Assault Vest, and saw that its nature was split as 41% Bold, 40% Adamant, 10% Impish. Can someone tell what are the viable builds? Going by the items and natures, it looks like there are at least 3 Swampert builds.

http://battlespotstats.com/?game=ORAS&season=15&format=Single#Swampert

That's surprising how low in use Hemlet is. But I guess it's just that part-bulky sets are more common. It's also strange Relaxed sees so little usage since it lowers neither defense so you can have EQ and Scald. Speaking of Scald, it's only a little more than half as common as Surf, which makes no sense. Even Greninja runs Scald more than Surf, and the power difference is greater for it due to higher SpA and a possible LO. The burn is really useful, especially on something like bulky Swamp. I don't think you should ever use Surf.

54.6% of Swamp run SR, but none of those are gonna be Megas cuz that's dum. This means only about only 5.4% of Swamp are either weird ones that aren't bulky or Mega, and about 4% of those are AV so you won't see choice or bulky ones that don't set SR often at all.

Possibly the greatest surprise revealed by the stats is that so few Swamp run Toxic-Rain Dance is more common. Less than a third as many have Toxic as Hippowdon with Toxic, surprising since they fill such a similar role. My point here is you can't necessarily assume all uncommon moves and things are unviable, tho that is often the case.

Going off the stats and knowledge of Swamp, I think it's safe to assume all Megas are Adamsnt, and the few Swamp with their HA are also mega cuz blocking Explosion is even more situational than Torrent and not an ability you wanna keep. I'm also gonna guess that none of the Bold Swamp have any physical attacks, and looking at stats that seems plausible.

There are gonna be a lot of different sets, but the main ones are prolly mega, with attack like EQ, Waterfall, and Ice Punch(they're also quite likely to have Protect,) bulky ones that are either Bold or Impish with Lefties, Helmet, or Sitrus(these will pretty much all have SR and a phasing move on Yawn or Roar, rest varies, partially depending on nature. It's prolly viable for Impish Swamp to have Scald, but not for Bold to have EQ, cuz the Atk hurts more from a lowering nature,) and I think that's it. AV is the next most common by far, but still quite rare, and it doesn't really seem like a good idea on Swamp at all.

Other stuff Bold ones might run include Ice Beam and Earth Power, tho I'd never use Earth Power. Megas rarely run a rock move, though Stone Edge and Rock Tomb are both more common than Rock Slide, which isn't even in the top 20 moves(less than 2% use.) Rock Slide is a really great move and generally my favorite of the main rock attacks, so I find that kinda strange. In rain mega Swamp is definitely fast enough to abuse the flinch, so I'd say RS is viable if not neccesarily good.

 

[Zeke_Squad]

So Swampert is the next Pokemon I want to breed and learn to use. Looked at Battle Spot Stats and saw that its item usage was 35% Swampertite, 30% Sitrus Berry, 15% Rocky Helmet, 7% Leftovers, and 4% Assault Vest, and saw that its nature was split as 41% Bold, 40% Adamant, 10% Impish. Can someone tell what are the viable builds? Going by the items and natures, it looks like there are at least 3 Swampert builds.

http://battlespotstats.com/?game=ORAS&season=15&format=Single#Swampert

I've used a swampert before with the help of my friend I came up with this set if you want to use it for a guide and fix what you want

Swampert@Leftovers
Impish nature
252Def/252Hp/4Atk
Torrent ability
Moves:
Yawn (Force Switches)
Protect (yawn assist/Leftovers stall)
Ice punch (for all dem dragon types)
Waterfall (STAB)

 

[Omastar68]

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Level: 50
EVs: 220 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Rock Slide
- Secret Power
- Power-Up Punch

Cresselia @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
- Moonlight
- Lunar Dance
- Icy Wind
- Toxic

Regice @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 176 SpA / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Ancient Power
- Ice Beam
- Charge Beam
- Focus Blast

Talonflame @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Natural Gift
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp

Should've posted this here earlier, too used to the PS room lol.

So obviously the main thing here is Regice. AV Regice is an idea I had a long time ago and it led me to nominate Regice for a ranking on the Singles Viability Thread. Until now I've never actually used it, and I decided that I should. Plus I really like Regice and have a nearly flawless one so yea. It's actually really good, taking joke damage from special attackers even without SpD investment. Like Gengar's Sludge Bomb did 17%, and I'm positive that was an offensive one. Regice has actually been really good for me, and it even has reasonable physical bulk. The 30 SpA and 0 Atk are the IVs on my in game one, everything else is 31 and its Calm. EVs are really specific. SpA to reach a jump point on some kinda Mamo or something, 2HKOing way more often than 8 less SpA would. Def is for something, I think a really low chance for max Atk Kamg to OHKO with DE. 4 leftover goes to Spe for other base 50s.

Kang is really awesome, and I like this set especially. In particular I like Rock Slide with that yummy flinch chance and Secret Power synergize really well with that. Running really low Spe-maybe too low, idk. It's just enough to outrun 252 neutral Spe base 70s after acquiring the mega Spe. I used to run 100 Spe for the aforementioned but even with pre mega Spe. The bulk tho does a ton tho, living lots of stuff and just being a lot bulkier in general. Like once I was at 53% and Breloom's Mach Punch left me with 1% of my helth.

Cress resists those yucky fighting a, synergizing great with the per two. Lunar Dance compounds this, as both of the aforementioned are really bulky and love getting a second chance. Icy Wind and Toxic over the more standard Ice Beam and t-Wave to deteriorate enemy walls and other stuff with Toxic while still having a form of ice coverage and Spe control.

So that's my main core, now I'm not completely sure what to add. I picked Talon cuz Voaziken and other fightings are just trouble in general, especially Mega Hera. Even tho I frequently have trouble properly using Talon I'm sold on it here cuz it covers such dangerous stuff. Not sure on the set tho.

Other than that I've had a few ideas but nothing I really like. The only thing I've tried was my first idea of Rotom-W and Mega Venu, but that seemed lackluster. There are too many mons Venu can't damage, and I just generally don't like Rotoms.

Some problems I have are Aegislash, Mawile(just a bit,) Suicune, Lucario(Talon wrecks it, tho I prolly should then run Spe for it,) and some other stuff.

 

[Demantoid]

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Level: 50
EVs: 220 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Rock Slide
- Secret Power
- Power-Up Punch

Cresselia @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
- Moonlight
- Lunar Dance
- Icy Wind
- Toxic

Regice @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 176 SpA / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Ancient Power
- Ice Beam
- Charge Beam
- Focus Blast

Talonflame @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Natural Gift
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp

Should've posted this here earlier, too used to the PS room lol.

So obviously the main thing here is Regice. AV Regice is an idea I had a long time ago and it led me to nominate Regice for a ranking on the Singles Viability Thread. Until now I've never actually used it, and I decided that I should. Plus I really like Regice and have a nearly flawless one so yea. It's actually really good, taking joke damage from special attackers even without SpD investment. Like Gengar's Sludge Bomb did 17%, and I'm positive that was an offensive one. Regice has actually been really good for me, and it even has reasonable physical bulk. The 30 SpA and 0 Atk are the IVs on my in game one, everything else is 31 and its Calm. EVs are really specific. SpA to reach a jump point on some kinda Mamo or something, 2HKOing way more often than 8 less SpA would. Def is for something, I think a really low chance for max Atk Kamg to OHKO with DE. 4 leftover goes to Spe for other base 50s.

Kang is really awesome, and I like this set especially. In particular I like Rock Slide with that yummy flinch chance and Secret Power synergize really well with that. Running really low Spe-maybe too low, idk. It's just enough to outrun 252 neutral Spe base 70s after acquiring the mega Spe. I used to run 100 Spe for the aforementioned but even with pre mega Spe. The bulk tho does a ton tho, living lots of stuff and just being a lot bulkier in general. Like once I was at 53% and Breloom's Mach Punch left me with 1% of my helth.

Cress resists those yucky fighting a, synergizing great with the per two. Lunar Dance compounds this, as both of the aforementioned are really bulky and love getting a second chance. Icy Wind and Toxic over the more standard Ice Beam and t-Wave to deteriorate enemy walls and other stuff with Toxic while still having a form of ice coverage and Spe control.

So that's my main core, now I'm not completely sure what to add. I picked Talon cuz Voaziken and other fightings are just trouble in general, especially Mega Hera. Even tho I frequently have trouble properly using Talon I'm sold on it here cuz it covers such dangerous stuff. Not sure on the set tho.

Other than that I've had a few ideas but nothing I really like. The only thing I've tried was my first idea of Rotom-W and Mega Venu, but that seemed lackluster. There are too many mons Venu can't damage, and I just generally don't like Rotoms.

Some problems I have are Aegislash, Mawile(just a bit,) Suicune, Lucario(Talon wrecks it, tho I prolly should then run Spe for it,) and some other stuff.

Why does your Talonflame have Natural Gift but no Berry?

 

[Omastar68]

Why does your Talonflame have Natural Gift but no Berry?

Umm, oops. bobochan suggested NG Ground for me earlier, but I felt that was sorta weird so I changed the item from Apicot Berry to LO. I guess I forgot to change the move to SD.

EDIT: Should be more specific. bobo suggested NG, but not neccesarily ground. I just asked what is the best 4th move for SD Talon. I actually ran Liechi NG a long time ago, but I'm not sure. Mayb I'll go back to that since throwing out Venu took my grass coverage. Fighting is the other good NG, but ground and fighting coverage are easier to get than grass coverage.

A mon I was actually thinking about was Terrakion. Maybe Coballion. Idk if either would work TBH, but they seem interesting and fighting coverage is quite valuable. But they don't really help that much with Aegi and what not. I'm gonna look if there's a good Trick or Switcheroo min that'd work-Aegi and Suicune hate getting tricked Scarves or bands.

EDIT: I'm thinking TrickScarf Togekiss. Suicune is plainly crippled and Lucario is outspeed and OHKOd by Fire Blast, mayb Flamethrower. Aegi will prolly use Flash Cannon and that sucks, except I'll be giving it Scarf and getting WP, which will trigger and then I can prolly break it or switch in something to take FCs. Mawile fears fire as well.

A 4x fighting resistance is also really nice, tho idk if Togekiss is really that good here. It does compound some weaknesses and is bad vs Thund which I'm wary of. Maybe I should get rid of Talon since Togekiss would also provide fire and flying coverage, and two Flyings can be trouble and baits SR.

 

[Zeke_Squad]

What would you change about this team to make it better for doubles?

Bisharp@Assault Vest
Defiant ability
Adamant nature
252Def/252Atk/4Spdef
Moves:
Psyco Cut
Sucker Punch
Assurance
Knock Off

Greninja@Life Orb
Timid Nature
252SpAtk/252Spe/4Hp
Protean ability
Moves:
Grass Knot
Hydro Pump
Dark pulse
Extrasensory

Zapdos@Leftovers (After event)
Calm Nature
Static Ability
252SpDef/252SpAtk/4Def
Moves:
Roost
Thunder
Rain Dance
Heat Wave

Smeargle@Focus Sash
Moody ability
Timid Nature
252Spe/252Hp/4Def
Moves:
Spiky Shield
Follow Me
Dark Void
Sheer Cold (4 that lucky RNG)

Ludicolo@Damp Rock
Rain Dish ability
Calm Nature
252SpDef/252Hp/4Def
Moves:
Rain Dance
Protect
Giga Drain
Hydro Pump

Kyogre@Blue Orb
Primordial Sea ability
Modest Nature
252SpAtk/252Hp/4SpDef
Moves:
Origin Pulse
Ice Beam
Thunder
Scald

 

[Omastar68]

What would you change about this team to make it better for doubles?

Bisharp@Assault Vest
Defiant ability
Adamant nature
252Def/252Atk/4Spdef
Moves:
Psyco Cut
Sucker Punch
Assurance
Knock Off

Greninja@Life Orb
Timid Nature
252SpAtk/252Spe/4Hp
Protean ability
Moves:
Grass Knot
Hydro Pump
Dark pulse
Extrasensory

Zapdos@Leftovers (After event)
Calm Nature
Static Ability
252SpDef/252SpAtk/4Def
Moves:
Roost
Thunder
Rain Dance
Heat Wave

Smeargle@Focus Sash
Moody ability
Timid Nature
252Spe/252Hp/4Def
Moves:
Spiky Shield
Follow Me
Dark Void
Sheer Cold (4 that lucky RNG)

Ludicolo@Damp Rock
Rain Dish ability
Calm Nature
252SpDef/252Hp/4Def
Moves:
Rain Dance
Protect
Giga Drain
Hydro Pump

Kyogre@Blue Orb
Primordial Sea ability
Modest Nature
252SpAtk/252Hp/4SpDef
Moves:
Origin Pulse
Ice Beam
Thunder
Scald

I'm not even sure where to begin. For starters no HP on Zapdos and Bisharp can't be a good idea, and if youre not gonna invest in SpD on Zapdos I don't get the point of a Calm nature-might as well go Modest cuz your EVs are in SpA.

Ludicolo doesn't like to set its own rain(so Zapdos should have the Damp Rock,) and RainDish doesn't really work with this gen's new mechanics on whether.

If this is regular BSD Kyogre is banned, and if this is VGC then you get to use two legends, so you want another.

The moves on Bisharp don't look very good, at least Psycho Cut doesn't. Assurance may be viable, but I don't kno.

There are prolly a few other things, but the biggest one I see is no mega. Even if this is VGC, Kyogre doesn't count as a mega, so you could have Megamence or something.

Umm, I hope that doesn't seem too harsh or anything. It's just this team isn't viable(quite literally if Kyogre is banned.)