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Survivor (Big) Survivor: Starhome
- Thread starter apricity
- Start date
And be problematic
do you want me to interact with this message or not? disclaimer being that it deffo did drop the odds u get my vote so it may not be the most productive but ill elaborate only if u give me the go ahead JHKFGSD
Go ahead, I'm curious what you are looking for specifically. How I interpreted your question is that you are asking me to back down and say I lied at some point in my speech, and gave me a chance to now tell the truth about a lie.
Is this the case?
Yeah if you also have anything you want to push me on I’d be happy to elaborate
im not asking you to 180 on anything you have said, im asking you to phrase something better or maybe point out a situation where you realized something at ftc that changes ur perspective on a tribal / something you said in your OG speach
feel free to say your answer is the same after this clarification, in which case ill type up a response to the message i replied to previously!
hey Psypsypsypsypsythe! this is a hard question because i talk a lot and i'll usually talk about whatever WJKALKDS, but i'll try to answer this the best i can!
so firstly i hate game talk LOL like even if i was on it constantly especially in late merge, i prefer avoiding it entirely. i'm not really that subtle with the way i talk to people cuz i find the most fun conversations to be the one where i just shoot the shit or talk about our days or ask questions about themselves. whether or not other people thought this is how they felt with me is completely up to them, but that's sort of how i like to approach meeting people in general and it makes it easy for me to learn things about them and hopefully past the game i can remain friends w them! we've all invested a lot of time in an internet social game, so a lot of my goal (and what i personally i felt like i've accomplished with most people) was to talk to people in a way that would, even if we werent allies, we could at least be friends and that would be enough for me. the worst part about survivor is the fact that you have to vote out people and that you have to end up voting people youve met in an attempt to befriend them imo, which is a mentality i tried to carry as much i could. and i think it gets hard for some people to vote out friends!
i personally thought when meeting people i would talk a lot and i found it fast to be friends with a lot of people immediately or soon after when i met them imo (when i had time, i dont consider my social game on ironbound during my time there to be the most productive WJKLSKKSD). i think it helped me feel secure and connected in ways that might've not necessarily, at times, put me in the driving seat but i think it helped people feel comfortable because when i could i would just say hello and try to be friendly and talk about a hobby. now i don't think that's something that the other finalists havent done or anything, but everyone in the merge was my ally for at least one vote throughout the game or another except for janzen so i like to think ive done a good job of making sure people felt comfortable around me!! it also helped that every of the decisions i made were entirely based on game and the best thing i can hope for is that no matter what there's no bad blood, because everyone is playing a game and want to win it, so i tried to carry myself that mentality w that in mind.
segueing in the game with this in mind, my goal was to remain approachable and keep having options in the early merge, which i think i accomplished by not seeming TOO tied to an individual person early on and remaining good with people around me to dodge the target. in separatists i felt like i integrated myself in a position where i would be making merge with allies that i protected such as psy and tommy and feeling good with the tribe, regardless of the worries of "s16 v eimm". and even on the onset, i think i had a pretty crazy amount of allies early merge! i tried to keep them subtle, but i think even though people knew i was close with you, tommy, vooper while also in the separatist grouping where i was decent w ryo, brandon, torin etc for at least the first few votes, and later to be clouds (and in endgame, tbz) they played AROUND me and not necessarily towards or against me. this also gets construed when people keep getting worried about my threat level on the onset of merge and when people recognized i was in a good position, they just... didn't even attempt to touch me. even while separatists got an inkling i was going under their nose and i would take a loyalist out one by one. i even protected my allies from each other at times early on by helping influence the clouds vote and hard vetoing tommy when he came up before 10. tldr i was in a good spot, approachable and people still wanted to work with me!
this ultimately would lead me to get a bit caught by sharing something with vooper i didn't need to, but i ended up being able to rebound by not shutting the door and remaining open. i was honest with my fears about the game, i was honest with people, i apologized for exposing things and people still wanted me around at 10 and let me basically organize and control that vote entirely while knowing i had wronged them. everyone gave me a second chance, even after they could peace that i was on good terms with a LOT of people, and i used that to get what i wanted - i admit that f10 was a bit manipulative from my end towards the other side but i found it a necessary evil to counteract the fact that zoa might need to idol and that other people were willing to vote totter - but i was sure it would work.
i think following this, i think another skill i had was being really good at pitching, and having people do decisions that don't necessarily benefit them! even after all this, and facing this perception where people knew i was sneaky but also a good player, my threat level rose. i've already wronged them and they had no reason to want me around, so ultimately i had a good reason to be taken out in mid merge by basically everyone in the game - and while i don't think that i was an imminent priority in game to be cut at 8, i had a pretty damn good chance to go! i worked on pitching to make sure i stayed and that someone else would go before me. i talked to clouds and torin that they might be next after i went and i laid it down the following order - ryo/tbz/tommy was an impenetrable 3 and had good chances against each other but not with us. tommy as he will explain to you numerous times in this ftc felt like he could beat me, but kept in touch with his F4 that he felt he could never stab as he explained to me earlier in the game - it seemed like ryo tried to vote me originally but i thought i had a pretty good job to lay his fears on psy and that we could potentially go if psy remained in the game as we vcd the next morning. despite what other people say about who "babied" my game, if any of clouds, torin, tommy, or ryo decided to flip on me i was done and i would rightfully be eliminated - and they both claim they made the individual decision themselves which i think speaks for my own impact.
and at 6, TBZ wanted Torin and I fed into that - while ryo wasn't sure originally i think that it was a bad choice to let the known comp threat (even if you say *i* wasn't the challenge beast, all my tribes have lost a small amount of immunities and i think i was instrumental in a good part of them) to make it through, i tried to convince him to keep me. tommy wanted me around (as he would move forward and stating) even then, ryo and tbz would make a chat and try to make me/torin fight WJKLASJKD. i pitched and i made sure people got someone else above me even though i had good connections, a pretty big move, and knowledge or influence over other votes that led them to happen as a good strong start to the merge. i thought i did a good job of getting people to keep me even with all this perception downing my game!
(funnily enough, zach was the only one actively resistant to the words i was saying, because he knew that i had the best chance of comping out and he saw my game in front of me to begin with WJKAKJLSD)
so i guess i tried to be approachable, but i do think i would make good-sounding cases for why even though i had all these varying factors above me that im here standing in front of the jury!
your answer to what i asked was chill dw, ill ask you a to answer smth else tho that could help me understand ur game from a POV i am more confident in
After Janzen/Brandon left and before I asked to be voted out, name 3 things you did to help you get to the FTC.
Oh ok I completely misunderstood sorry. I thought you wanted me to be like "I didn't flush the idol" or something and was like BRO I'm not lying
This a more fair question though.
I think if I was to redo k would provide more clarity on how I feel I had control this game. I pushed it very hard and fast and the start because I felt it was true and I needed to come in hard to show people I had a strong game, the strongest I felt.
That being said while I flexxed my control a lot I think I did it wrong. I dont think ryo for example voted Eli at f8 simply because I wanted to or pisx at f15 because I personally wanted it. I think I may have given the I impression that I thought everyone is throwing for me - that is obviously not the case everyone here is a good player and not that dumb.
I think I was able to prioritise and get the shit done i wanted in various ways, whether that being sticking my neck out when others wouldn't or downplaying stuff at certain points. obviously this isn't the same as controlling every single vote, every is self thinking and everyone has a part to play in every vote one way or another.
I just feel like I was always able to push an agenda by working with different people every time and flipping as I wished when needed. This is what I believed my control was, not people gamethrowing for me just because I said so. They always in the moment so believed they were doing the best for their game, and maybe they were and maybe they weren't.
Also the biggest wtf and gap for me is still whatever happened at f14 I'm so confused where this came from given all of you janzen and Brandon stand by not putting my name out - where did it come from i might never know LMAO
i like this answer a lot more than the both the previous ones, ty LMAOOh ok I completely misunderstood sorry. I thought you wanted me to be like "I didn't flush the idol" or something and was like BRO I'm not lying
This a more fair question though.
I think if I was to redo k would provide more clarity on how I feel I had control this game. I pushed it very hard and fast and the start because I felt it was true and I needed to come in hard to show people I had a strong game, the strongest I felt.
That being said while I flexxed my control a lot I think I did it wrong. I dont think ryo for example voted Eli at f8 simply because I wanted to or pisx at f15 because I personally wanted it. I think I may have given the I impression that I thought everyone is throwing for me - that is obviously not the case everyone here is a good player and not that dumb.
I think I was able to prioritise and get the shit done i wanted in various ways, whether that being sticking my neck out when others wouldn't or downplaying stuff at certain points. obviously this isn't the same as controlling every single vote, every is self thinking and everyone has a part to play in every vote one way or another.
I just feel like I was always able to push an agenda by working with different people every time and flipping as I wished when needed. This is what I believed my control was, not people gamethrowing for me just because I said so. They always in the moment so believed they were doing the best for their game, and maybe they were and maybe they weren't.
1. Took out Psy at F8
I respect psy’s game a TON but I’m aware some of the other players had Psy in their FTC plans. I’ve always seen myself as a visible threat and Psy (even though I really like him) hadn’t been talking to me recently and at that point if you weren’t with me you were against me, I honestly think taking Psy out alone guaranteed me FTC. As f7 and onwards it was impossible to push me, clouds tried accompanied w torin(debatably) but overall admitted that he couldn’t gain any traction pushing me unless Psy was in the game.
2. Cemented Trio with TBZ and Tommy
I had already been allied with TBZ since the start of merge was Tommy was also a very close ally throughout. I won’t take credit for forming the group like tommy did (I believe all 3 of us wanted it to happen and making such claims would put us all in contention) but I was certainly a part of that trio and my social game enabled myself to survive an f5 vote against Zach-where I believe every finalist agrees I was more of an FTC threat than Zach and wouldn’t claim I wasn’t.
3. - (I just realized I misread your question…)
I WILL SUBMIT THIS ANYWAY BUT I WILL NOW ANSWER YOUR ACTUAL QUESTION WHOOPS
tbh i think a lot of my issues with your game actually stem from the fact that it seems like you had absolutely 0 idea what was going on early game in loyalists from everything you have said in your answers/speeches, yet you claim that your control was inevitable ever since sep had majority
ig we will never know how much that would have came to fruition since i left the game early, but im not particularly thrilled by your positioning even after I left. While I can give you a lot of credit that what ended up happening in the single digits ties back to you, I am still not convinced that your long term plan was anymore more than "take the easiest route to FTC you can and then claim your iron fist on the game"
i dont want this post to just be me ratting on ur game tho, even if i have a lot more to say, so ill throw a question here cause your responses are growing on me more and more
Would you say that you walked into merge in a position where you were actively searching for more allies? Or were you content in the allies you had made previously leading up to this point, and focused primarily on strengthening those connections?
If you were searching for more allies: tell me about the closest alliance you made with someone that you first met in the game at the merge.
If you focused more on strengthening existing relationships: tell me more about you got your existing allies to work together in the early merge. I am especially interested in your gameplay at the ROOSTER where Janzen/Brandon went home in this case!
LMAO UR GOOD MY PHRASING COULDA BEEN BETTER <3
yknow what ill ask a question in response to this about final 8
Lemme first give something I am going to take as fact for the context of the question.
The PERCEIEVED order of threats at Final 8 aside from you (Ryo) from greatest to least is:
Clouds > Torin > Eli > Zach / Tommy > TBZ / Psy
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I am personally of the opinion that sometimes the easiest vote to get you farther in the game is not one that is good for you. From my point of view, this is where the Psy vote ties in.
I disagree fundamentally that Psy going is better for you than it is Clouds/Torin/Eli. It seems painfully obvious to me, and you, that Clouds was a shoe in to go at the next tribal, and it seems as if Torin was not planning on writing your name down, and you once again, knew this.
In a world where you have a trio with TBZ / Tommy, where you know that Clouds/Torin are big threats that go before you, convince me why voting out Psy is good for you aside from it just making it easier. I am not coming into this FTC wanting to vote someone who had it easy!
Did you not have full faith in your trio with TBZ and Tommy? Did you not believe that you could patch things up with Psy to have Clouds/Torin/Zach go before you on a threat level standpoint? Or did you just believe that your threat level at Final 8 was above Eli, putting you 3rd on the hierarchy, which is why you simply just needed to secure a slot here?
100% get heated in your response to this if you want to. I am phrasing this in a harsh way because I want to see you fight to explain why this choice was anything more than a way to just make it easier to float into the end game.
Zoa and Torin both told me privately that they had discussed it as s16, but I claimed it was brandon which was a lie because at that moment Torin was helping me stay in and Zoa mentioned wanting to help us both stay in (although I knew odds of Zoa helping me was slim) so I just said Brandon came up with it. I was told all of s16 knew about the plan beforehand but who knows maybe Brandon wasn't in on it at this point?
1. The sexy blindside at f12 (avoided idol play by shifting vote)
At F12 separatists were very contested between clouds and matieu being the vote. Clouds was the bigger threat (no offense to matieu) and therefore despite being pretty wishy-washy most separatists opted to submit on Clouds. This is when my pal Vooper showed up and as some people would say *gaslighted* me to believe that torin would get the most votes and need an idol.
I opted to believe you (and am aware Psy likely did actually flip his vote which would make you correct initially) and pressured torin to play an idol on himself
.
I WILL TALK ABOUT THE ABOVE PORTION LATER AND THIS IS NOT WHERE THIS PLAY LIES
It seemed people were gonna just uncaringly submit for clouds due to Torin’s safety being confirmed. However I knew the vote was actively being leaked and that clouds would have had the idol played on him at f12, as Tommy would say my “gamestate senses were tingling” and I realized I could be vulnerable on a revote if a double idol play ensued.
Late into the cycle I took agency and pushed people to vote for Matieu instead(which people did because why not)
When the votes were being read however, Not even you(allegedly:eyes:) expected clouds to place a stray vote on me, and if I had mindlessly tried to flush the idol at f12 by allowing people to submit on clouds I actually would’ve gone home! Which is the most vulnerable I’ve been throughout the entire time.
2. Leaning into TBZ
This is similar to my original “#2” except it’s the set up and indicates game awareness. After Brandon went I was aware my best friendos Zoa and Torin were close to me but I was the biggest voice after Brandon and I needed to branch out quickly and successfully as well.
TBZ and I had each other’s backs but found ourselves voting separately, after Brandon/Janzen left TBZ was a bridge I needed to perfect building and me and him talking game more openly ended up being great for the both of us(who were super connected before the trio was even formed)
3. Trusting You
This is gonna come off as brown-nosing but before you walked and after Brandon left I saw you as the favorite to win the game. Talking to you was very risky because Tommy “forbade” it and got really mad at me abt it because he thought if we hard allied that I would’ve been giving you the game.
You also had no real reason to injecting so much trust in me especially after I leaked you, despite this I decided to trust my gut and believe you which made me pressure torin to play the idol (ofc still his own play) and I confronted Psy which made him (allegedly :squint:) flip.
I’ve said this in an earlier message but I really admire your social game and think it was the best in the cast; the way you touched people beyond tribal and even pregame lines throughout your merge impressed me (I already had a massive rant about this in my FTC lmao) but trusting you despite Tommy’s very genuine warnings not only potentially saved my allies life but gave me a close look in how you built trust with people which I really did try to replicate in my own Ryo-way and I think your direct means of friendship and talking game is what helped me to become such great friends with TBZ and therefore contributed a lot to me making ftc.
Sorry for the essay thanks!
Just a side note before I answer, I believe my easiest route at F10 was goating for the s16 boys who had me as their 4th. I flipped here because I wanted to take a route where I was doing more and didn't just gave to backseat all game.
That being said, coming into merge of course I wanted allies on loyalist, everyone wants to be in on both sides. I spoke to you about allying and you were probably the first person I was intending to work with. But my goal was to protect a loyalist, not to flip. Separatists were definitely my priority at this point and I fought hard to keep the majority together for at least a few votes. Something j really didn't want to do was immediately flip to pregames completely and undo all my new relationships and break my promises.
I don't know if this is a conclusive answer either way for you? Though I think you would prefer me to answer the second question based on this.
I think I did a good job bridging the gap between s16 and non s16 separatists in the early merge. The exception probably being totters. I know Eli considered flipping a lot, and psy was so close to flipping too but I tried my best to reassure both sides and keep them together to get voted down. Obviously this was a close call at some points but I think it worked out in the end which is main point.
That being said, f14 was a wild phase for me. Obviously I knew that loyalists were getting their pick and separatists would get theirs. I remember distinctly that some of the s16ers were hopeful that we could get two votes down, with two loyalists going home. Brandon was particularly hopeful for this though I was pessimistic/realistic. I do think he was likely to go home regardless as he was the best votes for loyalists at this point, but I think maybe he should've just conceeded one of them were going home and tried his best to make it not him through social, like the others did more so. That being said it was obviously kinda unfair and a robbery for Brandon.
Janzen vote was obviously priority for both me and Eli as he had started this thing about us two being huge threats. To me this made it clear he would never work with me, along with the stuff coming out of the s16 chat. This phase after all this stuff came out, I think I felt at the most risk I did all merge and honestly I spent a lot of time sucking up to Brandon torin and zoa. I really wanted s16 to believe/know I was with them and they should not flip on me for janzen alliance. I still don't know who suggested it but I thought that by me showing trust in them, they would trust me and whether it established new trust or strengthened old trust it helped my going forward and guaranteed they wouldn't go for me in my opinion.
That being said, with l the drama going on and janzen being caught in the middle and s16 thinking be leaked them, and whether he was telling the truth or not I believe they just didn't trust him any more. It was my number 1 ideal vote, as he seemed to be pushing me. This was probably a reactive play as it happened due to my name being thrown out (Eli too as a threat but I was first suggested as a vote). I think this just made me and Eli very happy to vote janzen, with s16 down too due to the question marks over whether he was leaking them.
I sucked up to s16 a lot early merge as I had on separatists, which is probably why they saw my as their reliable 4th going into F10. Zoa didn't even believe I would vote him when Zach told him I was. This was a reactive play to get janzen out, based on the mutual trust myself and the separatist s16ers placed in each other, and I think it shows a lot of how much trust
there was that I was able to reject such strong advances and believe they weren't going for me.
ill drop the act for a bit and say that this genuinely was a very good answer, and not just cause of the brown nosing LMAO
i appreciate hearing ur pov on the f12 vote a lot here, and I agree with you on what you are saying about TBZ.
Ah ok makes sense, the story I was told was that all of the s16ers were in a call including you. Regardless I thought it was best to play it save and reassure them all here and give them the benefit of the doubt so they would see how with them I was at this point.
I appreciate this message,
1. I do believe my game was the best and therefore that my answers at an FTC *could* beat anyone. Psy at f8 did guarantee me FTC but I fw the “I’m not gonna vote for you because of that” mentality
So I will highlight the other MAJOR reason and the one that probably mattered to me the most personally
F10 was as I stated before, was the low point in my heroes journey, and totter was not my push at f9. That was two cycles in a row where (despite f9 not being detrimental to my game) I voted outside of my direct own agenda.
Eli wasn’t my direct push at f8 and I do think Psy was guaranteed FTC potentially over me if he survived f8. The main factor for me was that I needed a *successful push of my own agenda to put myself back into control of the game*
Psy vs Eli was hard for me because even though I do think Psy played better than eli, that eli was a bigger jury threat.
Nonetheless I made a tough decision I knew the jury potentially could be initially against, but I did so to put myself back in control of the vote and in a position where I would decide the votes for the rest of the game.
It’s not that I wanted an easy road to FTC, it was that I was okay with risking an absolute battle at FTC as long as I knew I played the best and could prove it. And I truly was an untouchable vote decider onwards from f8->FTC.
I understand thinking that Psy at F8 could’ve been taking the “easy way out”, but to me it was the road less traveled by that put me in a position to run the game which I’m hoping translates well in this message and in FTC as a whole. I will say confidently that I always played for 1st place since day 1.
"I spoke to you about allying and you were probably the first person I was intending to work with."
Since this is the only name you have mentioned for that part of the question, I am taking this as the answer for it being your closest alliance then from the new people?
The rest of this answer is solid, I appreciate the insight a lot, especially w the ROOSTER.
I'll try to keep this next bit as friendly as possible cause I don't want this bleeding out into anything actually out of game, even if the nature of the question is tough:
I want you to respond to what Ryo is saying regarding what you told him about me when it comes to how I play survivors and previous games we have played together. I am fully asking for your POV on this situation, and I am not going to pretend like I know the full story. What I am trying to get from this is an explanation on why, if what Ryo is saying is 100% correct about the meta of me you told him about, THAT form of inflating threats based on out of game things was valid in the game and why you are getting very up in arms about the thought that Eli is being considered a threat purely because of pregames. (which I fundamentally disagree with ftr)
I'll throw in one last thing:
Do you agree with the threat order I gave to Ryo in the previous question? (now including Ryo, posted below). Key word in the following being perceived. I am not asking for you to argue that Eli is less of a threat, I am asking if you at the Final 8 believed that the PERCEPTION of the game was that these were the threats in the following order. (And, therefore, that your FTC would be enough to beat this perception)
The PERCEIEVED order of threats at Final 8 aside from you (Ryo) from greatest to least is:
Clouds > Torin > Eli > Ryo > Zach / Tommy > TBZ / Psy
Nah you weren't the closest, obviously we never linked up i was just discussing what my actual goals were going in as you asked my intentions. In the end I felt good with Zach and tbz early, obviously we had a dynamic but I never felt like you were telling me stuff that didn't actually benefit you. A suggestion of an alliance between us was made but it never manifested in my eyes. You wanted more than I was willing to offer, we weren't compatible and I think you found what you were looking for in Eli.