CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 5 (Build)

[Fishin]

I still think mixed offense is a good idea. This thing has far more potential to be a good physical attacker than Infernape thanks to Grass STAB, but with HP it gets great special coverage as well.

We really don't have any true physical OU-viable Grass sweepers (sans Breloom, who really can't manage a full sweep), so that's something unique right there. As far as subseeding goes...it's already going to be a fantastic subseeder thanks to Fire STAB alone, it's not like we need to tailor the entire Pokemon to be the perfect subseeder.

edit: Tangrowth is really a physical tank more than anything else, which our Pokemon isn't going to be so I don't see how just giving it sleep powder will steal growth's thunder (though idc about sleep powder either way really).

 

[Matzrim Taim]

Offensive: Special
Defensive: Mixed
Speed: Medium

 

[Magmortified]

That said, it is already a unique user of Leech Seed (to answer Magmortified) in that it actually deters Grass type switch-ins with a fire typing rather than promote it.

Indeed. But over that... well... I may just be looking too far into the concept of a very focused Leech-Seed-user, if that makes things any better. Statwise and such.

But above the cookie cutter grass option? I dunno, I'm viewing this as a Fire type with Grass supplements, not a Grass with Fire supplements, so cool support options doesn't really seem too mundane to me.

I should probably be doing so as well, but, I like the concept as to how Fire can more benefit Grass support options, as opposed to the other way around. Eh. I may just be wanting something that can get a bit more benefit out of using Leech Seed than the average Pokemon.

 

[Azacin]

So when is this part decided?

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

EDIT: O btw, whoever mentioned that our Pokemon shouldn't have stat buffs is very intelligent. I've been thinking about what could possibly phaze a Fire / Grass, and the Skarmory / Suicune / Hippowdon / Donphan / Swampert obvious choices are all removed lol. Basically, Zapdos, Hariyama, Snorlax, and Drapion are left for effectively phazing, and I know Hariyama and Snorlax don't like getting Leech Seeded. Yea, let's try and avoid Swords Dance, Tail Glow / Nasty Plot, Bulk Up, Calm Mind, Curse etc. here.

Most of the stat buff commonly used are kinda hard to justify on a creature like this without specify body parts of in the case of Nasty Plot/Calm Mind/Bulk Up/Curse, can you see it using any of them. Growth is one of those buff that most likely be on it for the sheer fact that you can see it using it.

So when is this part decided?

Erh...the poll, I think now is an okay idea.

Offensively Physical: 30
Offensively Special: 67
Offensively Mixed: 11

Defensively Physical: 7
Defensively Special: 23
Defensively Mixed: 77

Very Fast: 2
Fast: 44
Medium: 50
Slow: 7

 

[Lord Gloom]

Let me take a shot at this.

HP: I think our latest Frankenstein monster should have decent HP. Good, but not enough for 101 HP subs. Substitute/Sunny Day/Solarbeam/Fire Blast would rock anything, as would its Physical counterpart (as well as being able to drop Blissey in a moment's notice). Since the seeming success of this Pokemon seems, even in this early stage, almost entirely hinges on whether or not he can get off a Sunny Day, I'd say 90 HP would be reasonably high.

Attack: Let's face facts: there aren't really that many usable Fire physical attackers. If the idea of this project is to diversify the game and shake up the threat list as it is, I say we give this guy some muscle. 110 Attack is my call.

Defense: As stated before, this guy should be able to take a hit. However, he shouldn't be able to take too many hits. His typing is already a total Special sponge, so I say we balance that with a moderate Defense. 90 Defense seems okay in my book, and will keep his build Balanced with Attack.

Special Attack: I am terrified of this guy being the ultimate Sunnybeamer. I do not want that, Sam I Am, as making this guy heavy on the Special side will essentially obsolete all other Sunnybeamers. He shouldn't play the functionary roll of a Heatran/Mojonbo love child. We want him to stand out from the crowd. As such, I'll call for 70 Special Attack.

Special Defense: Again, I want this Pokemon to stand out. He shouldn't be ultra bulky if we declared him Balanced, and his typing is, again, a total Special sponge. I would say 75 Special Defense.

Speed: We want this guy to stand out from the crowd, right? Well, if we don't want him to be a lackluster Bulky Infernape, I say we give him exactly 66 Speed - just enough to outspeed Infernape after a Sunny Day, but still outsped by everything that outspeeds Infernape. Since Infernape has fallen to the role of a Special/Mixed attacker, this guy could be what Infernape always dreamed he could have been. Also, having exactly one point of speed over a Max+ Infernape is awesome, isn't it? Balance is key here, because one more point of Speed and a Max Whatevermon will tie with a Max+ Gengar, since Gengar is one of the few 110+ crowd that can actually pack a STAB that this fellow is weak to. Of course, I don't want Gengar, and already massive threat to nearly everything, to be a hard counter - which is why our new Pokemon SHOULD be able to possibly outspeed any non-scarfed variety. However, it should come at a cost (namely wasting your nature on a pretty lackluster stat as compared to that gorgeous Attack or relatively high Defense, and pumping 196 EVs into speed anyways), which will obviously be something that would come into consideration during testing.

90/110/90/70/75/66 lands us exactly at 501. Not exorbitantly high, but if we try to push him any further in any areas, we'll either break him in one sense (such as the very precise speed) or another (the style and build we voted for). We likely could boost his defenses a wee bit, but you have to ask: would making him rock solid really benefit the metagame? Revenankh is already experiencing a state of semi-broken play, and while you could just chalk it up to there not being enough data and that people don't know how to counter it correctly, the main problem is that it's obviously very easy for him to set up. I know that a good Speed boost isn't the same as +2 Attack/Defense, but we just have to be cautious with the ground we're treading here. Ask yourself: how many Pokemon can reach 110 Attack/Speed and still have moderate defenses? Now ask yourself, would it be good for the game if they all had good defenses?

So, to answer the poll, I guess I'll just sum up my thoughts here.

We don't want the ultimate Sunnybeamer here, so
Attack: Physical

We don't want him to be able to switch in with impunity on pretty much any special user this side of Azelf, so
Defense: Physical

And lastly, we don't want him to be monstrously fast after that Sunny Day, but fast enough to reach a very specific speed which lies cozy between Infernape and Gengar, so
Speed: Medium (66)

 

[Karrot]

Edit: Whoa, that's a big post by Lord Gloom, maybe I should delete the main content of this one and save it for later?

@ Magmortified: Yes; if you want my opinion, I think you really are looking into its Leech Seeding capabilities too much. In my opinion, I think we have already contented it with its typing and possible base stats.

@ Aldaron’s edit: That would be moi, as I mentioned it in Part 1. I couldn’t have agreed with you any more than I do now.

After reading and responding to your posts in this CAP, I have really come to respect you much more than I used to (as I am, admittedly, biased towards join dates). I just wanted to throw that in there. :)

---

Now, on the topic of strategies for this specific Pokemon (although I fear I am getting off the main topic of its general stats by doing so):

Seeing as this is a balanced, bulky Pokemon, I can see the usage of Rest to keep it alive as a running threat against Water and Grass types. A set like such as Lava Plume/Grass Knot/Leech Seed/Rest would seem standard and could cause a lot of havoc for the opposing team. Although not entirely creative (but very awesome, in my opinion), this could make great use of a trait like Early Bird or Pressure (thus making it a very viable option on slower, stall-based teams) would mean that Blissey has a ton of trouble walling this and it can very easily stall away Water/Grass types of PP. Yes, I want to recognize the bolded set to be the ideal set, especially if Early Bird and Pressure are in the running for ability slots.

As of now, the Fire/Grass typing gives this Pokemon an extremely varied move pool that should automatically put it twice as high as Kingdra (whom many people are comparing this Pokemon to) on the threat list. Let’s, once again, review its possible support options (italicized options being what I think are iffy at best): Will-o-Wisp, Sleep Powder, Spore, Grasswhistle, Stun Spore, Toxic, Light Screen, Reflect, Leech Seed, Aromatherapy, Sunny Day, Worry Seed.

I think that’s quite a list, and this is only the obligatory Fire and Grass support moves, there’s a great possibility for this Pokemon to get a few unique moves depending on its art. The amount of support options it is able to obtain gives it a lot of variety, which can only lead this to become (in a sense) a very dangerous Pokemon.

So, what are some other options?

Sunny Day/Fire Blast/Solar Beam/Filler is reasonable, even without Chlorophyll, because getting STAB on both 120 BP attacks is simply amazing and gives it a lot of potential to deal damage. This is far from the most effective set, though, in my opinion, as we have already decided this Pokemon would be balanced, and besides, the set in my first paragraph almost completely overshadows a Sunny Day set (which, off of paper, I can predict to be very hard to pull off without a plethora of support from other Pokemon) in usefulness. This is generally why I don’t support Chlorophyll; it doesn’t seem to be much use and could waste a potentially useful ability slot.

As someone mentioned before, it could make great use of Technician with moves such as Flame Wheel and Giga Drain/Razor Leaf, but I think this is generally inferior to my first moveset.

Other than mixing and matching the wide support movepool, I think that the official art of the Pokemon would have to be established before we can go deeper into strategies.

Whew. It felt good to let spoil the monsters that are my ideas.

 

[latinoheat]

grass knot/energy ball is probably better then solar beam even in sunny day. The last thing you want is a ttar predicting the sunny day,solar beam or fire move and then stopping your weather as well as leaving you without a grass move to hurt it with. Add the fact that if this pokemon is slower its getting fucked up by a super effective rock hit.

I also don't really think this should be getting lava plume.

 

[Karrot]

In response to being out-sped by Tyranitar, I think it would be very interesting if we were to give this a base speed that would keep it and Tyranitar in constant competition, either giving it the same speed as Tyranitar or making it slower (as Tyranitar generally doesn't run much speed in the first place).

 

[Lord Gloom]

grass knot/energy ball is probably better then solar beam even in sunny day. The last thing you want is a tar predicting the sunny day,solar beam or fire move and then stopping your weather. If its slower its getting fucked up by super effective rock hit.

First off, a TTar switching into a 120 Base STAB attack from a Pokemon that (with my assumed spread) would outspeed it next turn anyways?

I don't think so, Tim.

With the exception of Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Abomasnow - all of which, I might add, are countered by the virtue of this Pokemon's typing - most teams aren't prepared to counter any weather. This Pokemon is essentially the ultimate Sunny Day user, so why not take advantage of it instead of preparing for situations which you'll be in control of regardless?

 

[latinoheat]

Unless this has changed from advance if tar switches in the same time as solarbeam is used, then it goes back to powering up for the next turn and doesn't hit.

More so the fact that if you only have solar beam tyranitar can freely switch in on either sunny day or the random fire move and not have any fear of being hit with a grass move the next turn. Well unless you want to sit around powering up solar beam while it kills you with super effective stone edges. Atleast with energy ball/grass knot if you outspeed it you still will be able to damage it.

 

[Aldaron]

Uhh, correct me if I am wrong, but let's say Sunny Day is in play and I choose Solarbeam. If my opponent brings in Ttar, and the Sand is kicked in, I begin to charge instead of beam, right?

Aren't you stuck with the charge of Solarbeam for 2 turns in Sand? I thought it was 2, but I might be wrong there.

 

[Karrot]

My idea of making it compete with Tyranitar (thus resulting in prediction wars during battles) still stands, I think. A speed tie with Tyranitar would make this a very curious Pokemon. Not only will it make this Pokemon stand out, but it is a good and interesting way to limit its abilities. What are the community's thoughts on this?

EDIT: I think latinoheat was implying that it would not hit in one turn like a Sunny Day Solar Beam would.

 

[Dane]

Remember though, his special defense would be hugely pumped up by the Sandstorm. I can't remember, but does the sandstorm negatively affect SolarBeam's BP as well? Either way, if they outpredicted you knowing you ran SolarBeam, they could switch him in, kill your sun so you have to charge, and then switch to something to absorb the beam.

 

[CardsOfTheHeart]

You ARE aware that SolarBeam's BP would be reduced to 60 in the Sandstorm, right? SunnyBeam gives Tyranitar the opportunity to switch in for free and risk at most 39-46% damage from my suggested Base 115 Special Attack (non-Specs) while going to town with Stone Edge.

Personally, you know my stance on what this thing's Speed should be. I'd give it enough to beat Gyarados. :)

 

[latinoheat]

Exactly if solar beam is your only grass move tyranitar is able to switch in pretty easily. I think 67 base speed is interesting, only two pokemon get this one is lanturn i am not sure on the other.

 

[Dane]

I'd probably run Energy Ball over Grass Knot, unless damage calcs later prove it's needed to kill certain threats. Dugtrio could possibly end up being a good revenge killer for this with a CB Stone Edge, and if you can't OHKO it then your odds of survival are low (probably something around 35% or so).

 

[Karrot]

As balanced stats would allow it, I think I would always run enough HP/Defense to survive a Dugtrio's Stone Edge (which already has 80% accuracy!), unless its stats already provide that or there are other things I need to focus on!

Out-speeding Gyarados, huh? I dunno, I really like the idea of speed-tying with Tyranitar.

 

[latinoheat]

Grass knot has the potential to 2hko bulkydos with some of the higher special attacks posted(115+), energy ball doesn't.

That alone is probably a reason to use grass knot over energy ball, energy ball allows you to hit starmie and vaporeon harder but i don't think they are much of a threat considering the defences people are proposing.

 

[Lord Gloom]

Oops, I miscalced. But regardless, running Energy Ball is a waste, since TTar would tear through you anyways. I cannot see anyone staying in.

 

[CardsOfTheHeart]

I don't know if I'd want this Pokemon to tie with 'Tar. I'd have to see some art decided on before I make it slower than Goldeen. XD

 

[Zathura]

can i suggest this spread

55/80/100/120/115/70

this gives a BST of 540 which is imo too high

this has low hp because I really like the idea of it being able to take down blissey via subseeding
reasonable attack so that it can maybe use swords dance to hit reasonably from the physical side of the spectrum

70 speed so it can outspeed stuff (I'm hoping for chlorophyll)

 

[Lord Gloom]

Psst, go for 90/110/90/70/75/66!!

 

[Admiral_Stalfos19]

So no-one's questioning my stats yet...

Here they are, in case you don't feel like looking back to page 9:
87/78/99/112/99/60: 535 TOTAL!

 

[CardsOfTheHeart]

Psst, go for 90/110/90/70/75/66!!

...when we've already decided that it will be offensively Special-oriented?


Oh, I'm also hoping for Chlorophyll because 82 Speed only requires a few Speed EVs to be able to outrun ScarfCross in the Sun. Heck, you could make it outrun practically anything in the Sun, if you wanted to.

Still, even if it doesn't get Chlorophyll, it can still beat Gyarados and Milotic.