-
The moderators of this forum can be found in the CAP forum staff directory.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 5 (Build)
- Thread starter Gothic Togekiss
- Start date
- Status
Isn't this more of a Grass-type than a Fire-type, as implied by the typing of Grass/Fire? It's not a Fire/Grass Pokemon, it's a Grass/Fire Pokemon. Why are you focusing on only Fire-types?
And I realize I focused on only Fire-types as well. But honestly, the usable Grass-types all do generally the same thing: Leech Seed. Unless they're Breloom, then they use Spore tactics and such. I guess Celebi does other things sometimes too, but mostly it uses Leech Seed.
And I realize I focused on only Fire-types as well. But honestly, the usable Grass-types all do generally the same thing: Leech Seed. Unless they're Breloom, then they use Spore tactics and such. I guess Celebi does other things sometimes too, but mostly it uses Leech Seed.
Because it's Fire/Grass, not Grass/Fire?
Didn't I mention something about how the speed will affect if it gets chlorophyll. I'm aware a pokemon with like 110 speed and Chlorophyll would be broken so if get speed like that, it won't be getting said ability.
Dane, that's why I mentioned that creativity implies originality.
TGVA8889, please pay more attention to the project before contributing. This is a Fire / Grass, not Grass / Fire.
Anyway, I hope you all read my previous post, because it really objectively summarizes what would be the most original path to take.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1117893&postcount=25
There it is, read it before making your votes. Originality is a huge part of creativity, and creativity is a huge part of this project. I also had a general trend of balance, so consider that as well.
TGVA8889, please pay more attention to the project before contributing. This is a Fire / Grass, not Grass / Fire.
Anyway, I hope you all read my previous post, because it really objectively summarizes what would be the most original path to take.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1117893&postcount=25
There it is, read it before making your votes. Originality is a huge part of creativity, and creativity is a huge part of this project. I also had a general trend of balance, so consider that as well.
Offensive: Special
The typing would work best if it had special moves, in my opinion they look more interesting than the physical ones.
Defensive: Mixed
Should be able to take hits from both ends.
Speed: Medium
Lower its speed to give it better attacking and defensive power.
The typing would work best if it had special moves, in my opinion they look more interesting than the physical ones.
Defensive: Mixed
Should be able to take hits from both ends.
Speed: Medium
Lower its speed to give it better attacking and defensive power.
Offensive: Special
Defensive: Mixed
Speed: Medium
Special has the option of STAB Solar Beam+Fire Blast under the sun however I would realy like a somewhat useable Attack Stat (maybe in the 80-95 range) for a supprise CB Flare Blitz+Wood Hammer set.
Mixed: why not? if we give one defence an advantage the other will drop, maybe give it a slight favor towards Phy. Defence but not more than a 15 point diffence.
Medium I want this thing to get clorophyl so fast and very fast is out.
Aldaron i have read your post and like it exept that you assume that being different from the nintendo pokemon is a good thing to aim for, maybe to a small extent but its not our goal. We seak to understand competive pokemon by makeing them the best way to do this is by imatateing what they have done, makeing some changes to type-stat correlation is ok but lets not make it the driveing force behind our votes.
People change your votes away from Fast and Very Fast or this thing will NOT get the ability that would give it power: Chlorophyll.
Defensive: Mixed
Speed: Medium
Special has the option of STAB Solar Beam+Fire Blast under the sun however I would realy like a somewhat useable Attack Stat (maybe in the 80-95 range) for a supprise CB Flare Blitz+Wood Hammer set.
Mixed: why not? if we give one defence an advantage the other will drop, maybe give it a slight favor towards Phy. Defence but not more than a 15 point diffence.
Medium I want this thing to get clorophyl so fast and very fast is out.
Aldaron i have read your post and like it exept that you assume that being different from the nintendo pokemon is a good thing to aim for, maybe to a small extent but its not our goal. We seak to understand competive pokemon by makeing them the best way to do this is by imatateing what they have done, makeing some changes to type-stat correlation is ok but lets not make it the driveing force behind our votes.
People change your votes away from Fast and Very Fast or this thing will NOT get the ability that would give it power: Chlorophyll.
Offensive: Special
Defensive: Mixed
Speed: Low
Special Offensive in no way precludes a decent attack stat. Low speed ensures this, and with a 60 cut-off, trust me when I say a Chlorophyll pokemon will work. SubSeed also works well with low speed since their attacks simply hit the Sub as you set up another one.
Also, Fast Chlorophyll users exist. Hi Jumpluff (Shiftry has Base 80). All a fast Chloophyll user means is A: no speed investment, B: other stats inferior to what they would have otherwise been.
Defensive: Mixed
Speed: Low
Special Offensive in no way precludes a decent attack stat. Low speed ensures this, and with a 60 cut-off, trust me when I say a Chlorophyll pokemon will work. SubSeed also works well with low speed since their attacks simply hit the Sub as you set up another one.
Also, Fast Chlorophyll users exist. Hi Jumpluff (Shiftry has Base 80). All a fast Chloophyll user means is A: no speed investment, B: other stats inferior to what they would have otherwise been.
True, but you should be original because it serves a purpose beyond just doing what hasn't been done before.
I'm going to have to quote Simpsons, and say "Just because no one's made hamburger earmuffs doesn't mean they would serve a purpose." Instead of doing it just to do it, we must figure out figure out the pickle matrix and make it worth doing!
Right does anyone have any objections to me posting a running total of votes cast so far?
DK you said something about it in the other thread, but this is not an ordered voteing thingy so people cant counter vote like in that other thread thread (Revenankh BSS for those who dont know).
edit:
DK you said something about it in the other thread, but this is not an ordered voteing thingy so people cant counter vote like in that other thread thread (Revenankh BSS for those who dont know).
edit:
Thats what I was trying to say, you said it better.
Offensive: Physical
Defensive: Mixed
Speed: Fast
Actually, physical will be cool, as most are special-based already. Something like Flare Blitz/Seed Bomb/EQ/Filler would be awesome.
Defensive: Mixed
Speed: Fast
Actually, physical will be cool, as most are special-based already. Something like Flare Blitz/Seed Bomb/EQ/Filler would be awesome.
I seem to not be able to get a slow subseeder to work. You either sub or seed as they switch, and then they get an attack in before you can do the other. Then, it comes down to prediction as to who will outpredict the other first.
This is why I prefer Sceptile. He's fast enough that, most of the time, he can get both off before the enemy attacks.
Uhh, are you honestly comparing making a unique spread in Pokemon to hamburger earmuffs? The analogy doesn't stand at all, since the earmuffs are obviously retarded.
However, being unique with a spread does mean a lot in Pokemon. You guys are using weird things like physical doesn't have the movepool that special does...but it really isn't lacking too badly at all.
Unique spreads definitely yield unique purposes...who honestly wants to see another fast, special attacking Fire Pokemon? Is a bulky Fire Pokemon with offensive capability not that much cooler?
However, being unique with a spread does mean a lot in Pokemon. You guys are using weird things like physical doesn't have the movepool that special does...but it really isn't lacking too badly at all.
Unique spreads definitely yield unique purposes...who honestly wants to see another fast, special attacking Fire Pokemon? Is a bulky Fire Pokemon with offensive capability not that much cooler?
If you got Sub up as they switch in it's rather pointless unless Leech Seed misses. A slow subseeder has to be bulky to take a hit, but from then on it's superior to the fast Subseeders because it can take more punishment. Once the threatening pokemon is down the Subseeder is harder to take out.
Offensive: Special
Defensive: Mixed
Speed: High
Although I've listed the speed as high, I'd rather see it at the low end of this spectrum, at 90 or maybe 95 speed. Being part Fire he should be reasonably fast for sure, at least to match the mental image I have so far.
As for the offensive side, special fits better than physical imo. With Leech Seed at his disposal Blissey won't be an issue, so it would make it more balanced I'd say. Also it would suggest using Ludicolo to counter this guy (don't make it broken over Ludi, I wanna see the dancing duck used more, making his offensive stat physical would leave less counters).
Since we're looking to a generally balanced set, balanced defences fit
Defensive: Mixed
Speed: High
Although I've listed the speed as high, I'd rather see it at the low end of this spectrum, at 90 or maybe 95 speed. Being part Fire he should be reasonably fast for sure, at least to match the mental image I have so far.
As for the offensive side, special fits better than physical imo. With Leech Seed at his disposal Blissey won't be an issue, so it would make it more balanced I'd say. Also it would suggest using Ludicolo to counter this guy (don't make it broken over Ludi, I wanna see the dancing duck used more, making his offensive stat physical would leave less counters).
Since we're looking to a generally balanced set, balanced defences fit
Offensive: Physical (Power Whip FTW)
Defensive: Special
Speed: Fast
Defensive: Special
Speed: Fast
The problem is that all of the good physical fire and Grass moves are solely dependent on Art design.
No fists, no Fire Punch. No feet, no Blaze Kick. No tendril-ish arms, no Leaf Blade. No Pods, no Seed Bomb. No Tendrils, no Power Whip, and so on.
Personally I have this idea in my head of a possessed Pumpkin with green roots growing out if it in a Shuckle-Like manner, and then Exploding on some poor sap, but my mind is just messed up. LOL at Flaming Pumpkin head pokemon with Aftermath.
Since Movepool works around Art and not the other way around, having a full physical moveset on a pokemon that looks remotely Fire/Grass-like is difficult.
Sure it stands. You want to make something just because it doesn't exist. Hamburger earmuffs don't exist, but that doesn't mean they should. Read below for further explaination.
Physical doesn't have the movepool special does. Usable fire physical attacks include: Blaze Kick (weaker than flamethrower, and less accurate), Fire Punch (even weaker still), Flare Blitz (usable, but barely due to not wanting to kill ones-self), and Sacred Fire (... yeah right, like it'd get this). Usable grass physical attacks include: Leaf Blade (not bad), Power Whip (fire blast without burn effect), Seed Bomb (energy ball without effect), Wood Hammer (see Flare Blitz).
So in reality, the only moves that aren't completely outclassed are Leaf Blade, Wood Hammer, and Flare Blitz. However, special trumps them with Leaf Storm, Solar Beam (remember, it's likely this will be used in a Sunny Day team), Grass Knot, Eruption, Fire Blast/Flamethrower/Heatwave/Lava Plume, and Overheat.
It's already going to be at least somewhat bulky, so that point is moot. The only way this thing should even feasibly be physical is if we're willing to give it that "no recoil damage" ability, or some newly created moves.
Can someone explain to me why people are voting for fast when it's just gonna mean we end up with yet another fast and powerful fire sweeper,which is so fragile that it cannot sweep anyway.
If you want a fast sweeper vote slow then you can have clorophyll, this way we have a pokemon that can function as a fast sweeper, and actually work defensively as well.
If you want a fast sweeper vote slow then you can have clorophyll, this way we have a pokemon that can function as a fast sweeper, and actually work defensively as well.
CTI
black
Offensive: Special
On the physical side of the spectrum, the best STAB moves are Wood Hammer, Flare Blitz and Power Whip, at least as far as I remember. Two of those have recoil damage, which isn't all-that-good on a support pokemon, since you will want it to live longer than your average joe. Without Flare Blitz as a viable physical fire move, you will have something like Flareon or Entei, a good attack stat without a good fire move to back it up. Or not. Either way, I don't like the physical fire moves and I don't think that they fit the support pokemon we are creating, since they all require luck to be really effective (and fire punch isn't all that good if you want a strong main STAB move), so I choose special.
Defensive: Mixed
I don't think that this pokemon should focus on one side of the spectrum and be vulnerable in the other side. Both sides pack some SE moves (Stone Edge, Aerial Ace and Brave Bird being physical and Air Slash and Sludge Bomb being special) and...well...I can't think on any reason to focus on one side, so Mixed, I guess.
Speed: Medium
Low-Medium. Around 65 or so. This depends <_<;. If Chlorophyll (or whatever it is called) is given to this poke, I would prefer a medium speed poke slower than normal, so when it gets chrolophyll up, you can jump some tiers without becoming Deoxys-S. If it doesn't get chrolophyll, a faster option would be better. But I am all for chrolophyll and this pokemon doesn't need speed that badly, so I go for medium.
On the physical side of the spectrum, the best STAB moves are Wood Hammer, Flare Blitz and Power Whip, at least as far as I remember. Two of those have recoil damage, which isn't all-that-good on a support pokemon, since you will want it to live longer than your average joe. Without Flare Blitz as a viable physical fire move, you will have something like Flareon or Entei, a good attack stat without a good fire move to back it up. Or not. Either way, I don't like the physical fire moves and I don't think that they fit the support pokemon we are creating, since they all require luck to be really effective (and fire punch isn't all that good if you want a strong main STAB move), so I choose special.
Defensive: Mixed
I don't think that this pokemon should focus on one side of the spectrum and be vulnerable in the other side. Both sides pack some SE moves (Stone Edge, Aerial Ace and Brave Bird being physical and Air Slash and Sludge Bomb being special) and...well...I can't think on any reason to focus on one side, so Mixed, I guess.
Speed: Medium
Low-Medium. Around 65 or so. This depends <_<;. If Chlorophyll (or whatever it is called) is given to this poke, I would prefer a medium speed poke slower than normal, so when it gets chrolophyll up, you can jump some tiers without becoming Deoxys-S. If it doesn't get chrolophyll, a faster option would be better. But I am all for chrolophyll and this pokemon doesn't need speed that badly, so I go for medium.
Offensive: Mixed
Defensive: Mixed
Speed: Fast
I want this to be able to play both physical and special. I'd like it to really become a force if it can get set up with weather and an ability. I want the speed to be in the 85-90 range. Unfortunately, that's right on the borderline.
I went with Fast because I'm not as worried as everyone else is regarding a Chlorophyll poke with good speed. Whether it gets superfast or ungodly-fast in the sun -- that's fairly inconsequential. If you give it 70 speed (middle medium), it will outspeed everything except Scarfed Weaviles and Scarfed base 130's (Jolteon etc) under Sunny Day. Basically, at 70 speed -- it outspeeds everything in the game if sun is shining. So making it faster than 70 really has no impact on Chlorophyll. What it does affect, is the playability of the pokemon when not in the sun. And with all the auto-weather pokemon out there, it's will have to be usable when not in sun. I think 85-90 is a good speed number, if it has balanced stats elsewhere.
Defensive: Mixed
Speed: Fast
I want this to be able to play both physical and special. I'd like it to really become a force if it can get set up with weather and an ability. I want the speed to be in the 85-90 range. Unfortunately, that's right on the borderline.
I went with Fast because I'm not as worried as everyone else is regarding a Chlorophyll poke with good speed. Whether it gets superfast or ungodly-fast in the sun -- that's fairly inconsequential. If you give it 70 speed (middle medium), it will outspeed everything except Scarfed Weaviles and Scarfed base 130's (Jolteon etc) under Sunny Day. Basically, at 70 speed -- it outspeeds everything in the game if sun is shining. So making it faster than 70 really has no impact on Chlorophyll. What it does affect, is the playability of the pokemon when not in the sun. And with all the auto-weather pokemon out there, it's will have to be usable when not in sun. I think 85-90 is a good speed number, if it has balanced stats elsewhere.
- Status