CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 9.5 (Main/Secondary Ability Poll)

[latinoheat]

no because nobody will really be running sunny day on this thing, unless it has a weather based trait.

Ttar and Hippo who get 2-3 hko great switch ins, outside of kingdra nothing else uses rain dance. Vaporeon cannot stall out 5 turns against something that can hit it super effective, not to mention the probable clorophyll sweepers who will come in and rape vaporeon. What pressure pokemon can take at most 2hits to stall out Fire blast PP. Your going to pass to Rhyperior who is hit 4 x effective by woodman.

 

[User 12783]

Main: Greenhouse
I would like to test the metagame impact of legitimate Sunny Day teams. Even if it turns out broken, it will be cool to playtest a completely new strategy.

Secondary: Rock Head
Giving this an option to play physical is really interesting. If teams are expecting a special set with Greenhouse, they could be in for a rude awakening with a viable-but-not-preferable physical set. Just mull the possibilities of a "CBCoil" set....

I completely agree with DJD
And if this does turn out Uber, at least it is the only Grass-type and Fire-type uber :P
(Other than Arceus -_-)

 

[DougJustDoug]

If we wanted to nerf Greenhouse further, we could have the sun kick in at the end of the first turn. That would further limit the power of the ability, but it would also force your opponent to guess which ability you are running. If the alternate ability (like Rock Head) encouraged a totally different set, that could lead to some interesting predictions.

We don't need to decide that immediately. If Greenhouse is chosen, we can decide it later when finalizing the specifics of the ability, or even change it after playtesting. I'm just suggesting it as a minor tweak that might appease those who think any form of auto-sun is broken.

 

[latinoheat]

if you have to take a trait and nerf it to the point where it starts after the first turn, is 5 turns long and only works when that pokemon is on,whats the fucking point.

Nobody would use Rock Head over Auto Sun.

 

[Sunday]

Battle Armour and Rock Head

Does this work like you get points for being #2 and more points for being #1 and we tally them up or what
?___? Because I see people have voted for the same two abilities as me but in a different order, and I don't really give a shit which is the 'main' ability - that's really just a name that has no impact on anything.

 

[Grawl]

Battle Armor and Rock Head

It fits, it works and it keeps him nice and balanced.

 

[ESP]

Rock Head and Solar Power

 

[TerrickTerran]

Battle Armor and Heatproof

I still like these abilities best. I don't like Rock Head with it, and Greenhouse just makes me leery.

 

[Kira]

Latinoheat: It seems all you do is complain about what other people are voting... it is called a vote for a reason. Everyone is free to express their opinions.

Now let us also look at the title... this is a VOTE, not a "COMPLAIN ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE ARE VOTING" thread so I think this thread will benefit if you kindly stfu.

The point of testing greenhouse is to see how the metagame will change with auto-sun. It doesnt matter if it turns out broken because we have the super amazing ability of changing the ability.

So no harm comes from testing out an ability except maybe a slightly broken metagame for a week or so.

Now onto my vote

Rock Head

I personally find that Battle Armor is a little too broken on a pokemon so bulky. I vote for Rock Head to make a physical set more viable on our creature.


Honorable mention

Scrappy

Now I know third votes are not allowed but I still want to talk about this thing. Scrappy is a nice ability to give to a pokemon with Rapid Spin, however I personally think our next CAP project can focus on this and we can make a T-spike/SR/Spike immune pokemon that has Scrappy + Spin.

 

[Hobo Joe]

Battle Armour and Sniper.

 

[DougJustDoug]

if you have to take a trait and nerf it to the point where it starts after the first turn, is 5 turns long and only works when that pokemon is on,whats the fucking point.

1) I think it should work for 5 turns regardless of who's on the field.

2) There's tons of shit that happens at end-of-turn. Including abilities. Speed Boost says hi.

3) There are plenty of abilities that are complicated. Mold Breaker says hi. Wonder Guard says hi. Hell, even Plus/Minus is pretty damn specific when you think about it.

And the point is to offer a meaningful suggestion to possibly solve the problems, instead of just sitting around and bitching about it.

 

[Karrot]

I'll repost an edited version of my last post from Part 9, because it will obviously get more attention here.

It's time to make a large post.

Wait on the Rapid Spinner, guys. We don't want to clutter this Pokemon with every single "good" strategy we can think of. Besides, this Pokemon is already suffering from not being able to use more than four moves.

If everybody wants a Drought Pokemon, wait until the next Pokemon and build it around that idea. Giving this Drought (or an ability much like it) would only make it lose its flavor. If you want a proper "Greenhouse" Pokemon, propose it next CAP and if it wins, build everything with that in mind. Besides, this Pokemon is way too bulky for it to be balanced with any type of Sunny Day ability.

With that in mind (and ignoring the possible "Greenhouse"), I think people should realize this should have a different Pokemon set Sunny Day up for it, because this Pokemon's move slots are so precious that it would be a waste to have it set up Sunny Day for itself.

---

Now, I'm going to refresh everyone on the ideas I proposed in Part 5:
Lava Plume/Grass Knot/Leech Seed/Rest - The ideal set. Pressure compliments this set perfectly! A defensive Pokemon with Leech Seeding, Burning, and PP Stalling potential? I love it.

With its stats, this Pokemon is quite a mediocre attacker unless you are running it for support. The attacking sets (all of them) are worse than everyone is imagining, and as such I am now willing to test Growth on this Pokemon. Only, however, if its Ability reflects that it may be a powerful Pokemon with Growth. This further explains why I lean so much towards Pressure and nothing else. It is definitely a better "wall" than Cresselia because of its great support movepool, and also because has a little "umph" to its attacks, so don't even compare it to the Space Duck!

(P.S. "Subseeding" is STILL horrible, especially on a slow, defensive Pokemon that cannot get subs up in time! Stop mentioning it!)

No matter where we turn, this Pokemon will always be good at something. This is quite a hard Pokemon to work with.

To be honest, about 11/12 of the abilities in the poll list either make it too powerful in one way or another (Battle Armor, Flash Fire, Greenhouse, Heatproof, Intimidate, Solar Power) or just don't do much to improve the Pokemon for the better (Leaf Guard, Rock Head, Scrappy and Sniper). Now, to explain why:

Battle Armor: This guy is impenetrable except by the most hard hitters. If I may make a comparison, sometimes "stall" can only be broken by a critical hit. With only three weaknesses, only one of which can be considered common, and incredible defensive stats, this thing is pretty hard to take down, even considering the stealth rock weakness. We should not destroy a 6.25% chance to defeat this Pokemon if we are trying to balance it out.

Flash Fire: As discussed millions upon millions of times throughout the progression of this CAP, Flash Fire removes a large portion of the BL/UU Fire Pokemon that can potentially counter this Pokemon. This goes against the whole point of the project, because we are trying to diversify the metagame, and stripping Borderline and Underused Pokemon of being able to counter this will in no way diversify the metagame.

Greenhouse: To quote myself: "If everybody wants a Drought Pokemon, wait until the next Pokemon and build it around that idea. Giving this Drought (or an ability much like it) would only make it lose its flavor. If you want a proper "Greenhouse" Pokemon, propose it next CAP and if it wins, build everything with that in mind. Besides, this Pokemon is way too bulky for it to be balanced with any type of Sunny Day ability." To add to all that, it seems too early to implement a this ability. We should have a formal discussion on how this will change the metagame, first, before we ever implement such an ability. I think we can all agree, however, that auto-Sunny Day in OU would be extremely influential.

Heatproof: Mostly the same reason as Flash Fire. It's not as bad as Flash Fire, but again, this Pokemon has three weaknesses, two considered to be rare, and giving this a "resistance" to fire will, once again, prevent the diversification of the metagame for to lower tier fire types.

Intimidate: This Pokemon is bulky. Making it bulkier than it already is (which is quite bulky) will only lead us to an overpowered Pokemon. Also, because X-Act did such a good job explaining with maths, I'll link to his arguments: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1144489&postcount=227

Intimidate would make it the most physically defensive Pokemon BAR NONE, making it being hit for 7% less damage than REGIROCK.

Leaf Guard: The ability to heal status nearly instantly (not Rest, of course) on an already defensively powerful Pokemon? I don't think so!

Rock Head: This does boost its physical potential, but really, there's not much beauty to it that makes its Physical potential even a little bit viable. We are literally boosting an empty shell, here.

Solar Power: Even with the 12.5% HP damage to the user per turn (6.25% with Leftovers), this is giving an incredibly bulky Pokemon the ability to hit hard. Really hard. Just stick to Growth and live with the moveset limitations, guys.

Scrappy: The only reason this is listed is because of Rapid Spin. I will, once again, quote myself: "Wait on the Rapid Spinner, guys. We don't want to clutter this Pokemon with every single "good" strategy we can think of. Besides, this Pokemon is already suffering from not being able to use more than four moves."

Sniper: We have no decent CH moves to choose from, unless we implement custom ones. This, in no way, helps our Fire/Grass Pokemon, who is (as of the conclusion of the spread poll) a bulky supporting Pokemon. There's not much else to say for this, other than "why?"

Now that that is over, let's reveal the remaining choices:

Pressure: Yes. This is it. With my arguments for it above and from this quote:

I cannot even begin to explain the underlying potential of Pressure. Not many people (if any) in this topic have had the time for extensive experimentation with "stallplay," but I know from experience that its advantage dramatically increases the longer and profound a Pokemon battle becomes. The power of Pressure is finally recognized when your opponent has to put thought into what moves they choose when PP is running low - something uncommon in fast-paced games - and that is how Pressure gets its name. With the correct skills and team you can turn an utter stall match into a 100% victory. (Although I doubt anyone has ever tried to remove an opponent's Rapid Spin PP so you could Spike their team into oblivion. ;p)

Even in an offensive game with fast-paced battling, the effectiveness of Pressure can be seen. For example, removing the Gyro Ball PP from a single-attack Bronzong means that it will have a hard time stopping your Substitute Swords Dance Garchomp!

If a capable "stall" ability is what you want, then I advise you to put your support into Pressure: an ability that is neither potent nor weak but can turn a game around from even the darkest corner.

I think it is very clear I am a 100% supporter of Pressure.

Now, for my votes.

Main Ability: Pressure
Secondary Ability: None

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Does this work like you get points for being #2 and more points for being #1 and we tally them up or what?

I still haven't 100% figured that out yet. The cloest I got was the ability with the most votes overall will being it's "main" ability. Second highest will become it's second ability.

 

[Jace the Mind Sculptor]

Ugh I made an awesome post, but my internet wasnt working. Anyways, Im just gonna give my votes.

Solar Power
Leaf Guard

Yap, maybe Ill explain my thoughts later...again.

 

[Kira]

Oh DJD: Dane made a great suggestion. If 5 turns of auto sun turn out to be too much for the metagame to handle we could always make it like an Air Lock type thing. Meaning that the sun will only be active while our Fire/Grass is out.

Also if that proves too much then we can make it a combo of the two.

Meaning it is active for 5 turns MAX, but it ends as soon as we switch our pokemon out. So basically our pokemon will be in the sun for 5 turns max, and then will need to switch out if he wants sun again. Switching out before the 5 turns will not allow another pokemon to abuse it.

 

[Dane]

Does this work like you get points for being #2 and more points for being #1 and we tally them up or what
?___? Because I see people have voted for the same two abilities as me but in a different order, and I don't really give a shit which is the 'main' ability - that's really just a name that has no impact on anything.

Everything counts for the same points. I asked this earlier because I felt it was hard to understand as well, but basically it's a normal bold vote, with 2 votes per person.

 

[Luck]

Rock Head

Battle Armor


BaaBaaaBaaBaaaa

 

[DougJustDoug]

Oh DJD: Dane made a great suggestion. If 5 turns of auto sun turn out to be too much for the metagame to handle we could always make it like an Air Lock type thing. Meaning that the sun will only be active while our Fire/Grass is out.

Also if that proves too much then we can make it a combo of the two.

Meaning it is active for 5 turns MAX, but it ends as soon as we switch our pokemon out. So basically our pokemon will be in the sun for 5 turns max, and then will need to switch out if he wants sun again. Switching out before the 5 turns will not allow another pokemon to abuse it.

I remember Dane's suggestion. I was just pointing out that I'm not an advocate of that particular suggestion.

 

[Larmo]

Greenhouse and Battle Armor

 

[Hazmat]

*long post*

Even though we have opposing views on battle armor, I totally agree with your opinions.

And additionally, if art is not supposed to be integral to how the pokemon plays, why the hell do we have it so early in the process? We can just, you know, announce the types, movepool, abilities, and role and have the art complement it. I'm sure the other artists have no problem with extra time for designing.

 

[Frosty]

Main Ability: Battle Armor
Secondary Ability: Rock Head

 

[cookie]

Rock Head
Pressure

 

[1059860]

Battle Armor

and

No second ability

 

[Azacin]

MAIN: Greenhouse
Second: Solar Power

What can i say? I'm a fan of sun teams.

 

[Grawl]

Oh DJD: Dane made a great suggestion. If 5 turns of auto sun turn out to be too much for the metagame to handle we could always make it like an Air Lock type thing. Meaning that the sun will only be active while our Fire/Grass is out.

Also if that proves too much then we can make it a combo of the two.

Meaning it is active for 5 turns MAX, but it ends as soon as we switch our pokemon out. So basically our pokemon will be in the sun for 5 turns max, and then will need to switch out if he wants sun again. Switching out before the 5 turns will not allow another pokemon to abuse it.

So you're basicly giving him a stronger Fire attack and a Water resist. He doesn't need that boost at all, so what's the point?